[Lennie]

Does anyone else ever feel this way, or am I a bad freak of nature? I have BPD and........
Sometimes ( a couple of times a week) I feel intense hatred and resentment towards my CPN (nurse) and Support Worker, this occurs when they aren't with me. I have 'imaginary' conversations with them telling them how I really think and feel and I feel very hostile towards them. I am especially like this the day before or just after I have had an appointment with them. It involves me telling them that I don't want to talk to them and I don't want them in my house. It's as almost as if I am in my own little world and I can't seem to get myself out of it. Is it psychosis? Eventually this feeling of anger and 'fantasy' (for want of a better word) passes, and when my nurse and support worker come to see me I am usually ok with them. A couple of times I haven't felt like talking to them, and sit there seething with anger. I can't explain it, I don't understand it and this upsets me. I am genuinely worried I will snap one day and lash out at them in reality as opposed to fantasy. I don't want to feel like this towards anyone. I don't want to be ill.......I recognise I'm in denial sometimes that I am ill.
I feel like I'm 'Jekyll and Hyde' sometimes and I hate it. I don't want to ever be violent towards anyone. I keep wanting to cancel my appointments with them, and have cancelled my meeting with my nurse on monday morning already (I left a message on their answerphone today)
I'm so ashamed to admit this, but I have no one else to talk to. If I tell them how I feel then I'm worried they will put me in hospital against my will or stop coming to see me. Maybe it's best to just try and cope with life alone....maybe I am a danger to other people.
Please help. I'm sorry, please don't hate me

[Perna]

I think when we need people it can be very hard to be "honest" with them and let them know what works and what doesn't work because we're afraid they'll leave us. We think we'll leave them "first" so we don't have to feel the pain but relationships don't work that way and a lot of what is going on is just going on in our heads/imaginations. It is hard learning to check out the reality of what is going on and then learning to respond to that reality no matter what it is and whether we like it, etc.

[Lennie]

But why on earth is my evil mind thinking about hurting these people? Actually, not hurting them physically...just scaring them a little bit - trying to take the 'upperhand' so to speak.
I should just lock myself away from the world

[RiverX]

Is BPD bipolar personality disorder, or borderline pd?

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
If I tell them how I feel then I'm worried they will put me in hospital against my will or stop coming to see me. Maybe it's best to just try and cope with life alone....maybe I am a danger to other people.

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">

What I have found out is theres the 'exile disorder', and in it there are two positions which we ricochet from one to the other. One is the exile position where we pull away from others, or are rejected by others, or on the other side of this, others have too much power over us and are (or seem) sadistic and liable to exploit, use, overpower, 'enslave' us. (eg put you in hospital against your will). This other position is called the 'slave-master' position. (nice hu?), and we tend to iether find ourselves in one or the other, or find a compromise between these positions, a place that feels relatively safe, not too close and not too far. Like, me having relationships in cyber world. Needing people puts one in close contact with them one is truly vulnerable to them.
theres loads writtten about this, theres an attempt to translate this into humanese only its unfinished, if you like, check out

selfinexile.com

All this may not apply to you, but if it does, you'll probably get a sense about it.
I had such intense feelings about my T. had endless conversations in my head with her, and confrontations with her when I wasnt in session with her, it took over my head, not psychosis, but I was pretty well powerless over controlling this process. It was taking over, fantasy relationships taking over from real life because I failerd repeatedly to really stand by my truth when in the interaction with her. This remains unresolved for me, I left therapy to recover!

warmest,

riverx

[Lennie]

Thanks RiverX, that makes alot of sense to me. I'll read that link you shared with me now. It's nice to know that I'm not the only one who has experienced this weird and disturbing thing.
Take care
(And BPD is 'Borderline Personality Disorder'. Bipolar is just 'Bipolar Disorder', its not a personality disorder)

[Lennie]

Oh its the same as Schizoid personality - which I've been told I have too.......so that explains it. So much emphasis has been put on me being Borderline because I self harm that the other personality problems I have seem to be ignored at the moment. I guess when my therapy starts all will become clearer and be dealt with. That link you gave me does make some sense to me but as I with all things I obviously don't tick all the boxes so to speak.

[Lennie]

Just waffling away to myself now.........
I think I feel resentment and embarrassment that I have revealed such personal details about myself to people who are strangers to me. Although my nurse is friendly and kind, I hate the fact that he has made me answer a questionnaire as part of my Care Plan that involved details such as my sex drive and bowel movements!! The fact that he brought another nurse in training along with him to witness him do the assessment also grates on me. I'd only met this other guy once before and felt backed into a corner during the meeting, even though I was in my own home I was not in control. I felt compelled to answer the questions because I am so desperate to get help. I feel they took advantage of my vulnerable state to extract information out of me for their own gain - to make their job easier. I hate the fact that my nurse has the power to have me put into hospital against my will. I have had nighmares about it. I am angry with myself for ever starting this whole process with the mental health team and I dream of running away from this part of the country and starting again in a place no one knows me. I feel too exposed now. I've been so private in my life so far - until I had a breakdown, then my mouth went into overdrive and told the people assessing me things about myself I deeply regret. This whole 'being mentally ill' thing is too much for me to cope with. I much preferred living in denial and my own little fantasy world.

[RiverX]

I can relate, in fact what you say really resonates with my own deeper issues, so I hope I can be helpful.
I speak from my own experience, but by now, also from understanding from reading, I was so desperate that I read loads.
(I'll call it exiles - more friendly that schiz) - we tend to have a history of having been invaded in some way, so I can understand about feeling over exposed. I was toxically invaded by my mother and my acting out was in relationships that hurt me. I believe I was trying to get to the internal place where I'd been invaded to get it out. I think self harm is also part of the exille disorder.

- and also, the other extreme, pouring it all out with great need but little boundaries or caution, - yup, done that binthere, got uncomfortabel T. shirt. !
that could also be the 'slave-master' relationship, having no boundaries to protect us, ie, slaves have no right to protect themselves. And also the power that the health team has - however real that is? - it still feels real like that. I know I have been harmed by health care profs, its true, but I believe you can also protect yourself.

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
I feel they took advantage of my vulnerable state to extract information out of me for their own gain - to make their job easier. I hate the fact that my nurse has the power to have me put into hospital against my will. I have had nighmares about it.

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post"> Yes, I totally id with these feelings and experiences.

and that running away to where no-one knows you, - well that was my exact dream when i was at boarding school, and I did run away. It was a sort of feeling specifically of 'where no one knows me', that was a powerful element for me, the anonymity, like I could be free of something.......... in exile to be free, because to know me is to shame me or to use me, thats where that one came from I think.
I hope we keep talking, pm if you like, what you say does make sense, the understandings all available, some people have done some really good work in this.

river.

[Perna]

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
Lennie said:
But why on earth is my evil mind thinking about hurting these people? Actually, not hurting them physically...just scaring them a little bit - trying to take the 'upperhand' so to speak.
I should just lock myself away from the world

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">
I use to have rescue fantasies; where a bridge would collapse and my car would fall into the water and I'd have to swim with my niece almost too far and I'd be unconscious in the hospital and my therapist would come visit me, the only one who could bring me out of my coma, etc. :-)

If one can't control how one is treated, one can have all sorts of fantasies about what we do to the other people, etc. It's a comforting but dangerous game we play. It's dangerous because we don't have to confront the person in real time, don't have to worry about their response and if they try to take it out on us, etc. But we get further and further away from reality and that's never good. The more we get in the habit of fantasizing instead of responding to what is actually in front of us, the "sicker" we get and the harder to get out of the hole we're digging with our habit.

[RiverX]

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
It's a comforting but dangerous game we play.

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">
Perna, for some of the disorders of the self, these things are not amenable to control by willpower. My experience is that it needs a gentler deeper approach of growth, and regrowth based on good relationship and understanding,. Some of the disorders behaviour need to be confronted, others need something else. If were talking about the exile disorder, trying to force oneself out of fantasy can have a reverse effect.
these differences are deep and important and interesting.

river.

[pachyderm]

> we tend to have a history of having been invaded in some way

Could you write more about this? It is my experience too, but I have a hard time thinking about it, remembering what it was really like, understanding it.

[Lennie]

I'm sorry Perna, please don't be offended but I don't understand some of the points you have made which is why I haven't responded to them. I do appreciate your input and I will keep re reading your replies in a hope to understand you better. But I would like to say that my little fantasy world that I speak of has helped me get this far in life and it is not a conscious 'game' I am playing. Sometimes I don't even realise I am living outside of reality until something happens to jolt me back to real life. If I lived my life in reality I don't think I would have made it to the age of 35 after all the things I have been through.

River - A couple of things......This Self in Exile disorder, is it something you personally have named? I've Googled it and can find nothing about it, just references to Schizoid PD.
And....I did run away 2 years ago. I sold my house and lived in a caravan for a year travelling around the country and doing temp jobs when I could. I made it all the way to Inverness!!! I felt good at first but then I realised I was ill and needed to settle and get some help. I still struggle with my desire to run away and start again. My CPN knows about this and is helping me get accommodation in my local city so I am nearer health care facilities (I live in a crappy town with no support groups or hospital within 20 miles). Of course when my little mind goes into overdrive I get all negative and just think they are trying to get me nearer to their office so they can control me even more!!! I make myself laugh sometimes with the daft things I think!!!
Yeah I know I'm paranoid too.....

been reading this interesting thread......

Lennie- much of what you said here, I relate to: </font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
I think I feel resentment and embarrassment that I have revealed such personal details about myself to people who are strangers to me. Although my nurse is friendly and kind, I hate the fact that he has made me answer a questionnaire as part of my Care Plan that involved details such as my sex drive and bowel movements!! The fact that he brought another nurse in training along with him to witness him do the assessment also grates on me. I'd only met this other guy once before and felt backed into a corner during the meeting, even though I was in my own home I was not in control. I felt compelled to answer the questions because I am so desperate to get help. I feel they took advantage of my vulnerable state to extract information out of me for their own gain - to make their job easier. I hate the fact that my nurse has the power to have me put into hospital against my will. I have had nighmares about it. I am angry with myself for ever starting this whole process with the mental health team and I dream of running away from this part of the country and starting again in a place no one knows me. I feel too exposed now. I've been so private in my life so far - until I had a breakdown, then my mouth went into overdrive and told the people assessing me things about myself I deeply regret. This whole 'being mentally ill' thing is too much for me to cope with. I much preferred living in denial and my own little fantasy world.



</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">Revealing private matters to strangers..... feeling so vulnerable..... someome else having power of you...... being so private in the past with ones life.....living in denial and ones own fantasy world.
OH-- I can so relate to all of this! the one thing I don't see myself as is "ill" though, I'm not ill-- anyone that went through what I've gone through, I don't believe would be much different than I am-- I see it as a way one has coped with trauma, neglect and upset. sure it has affected my life in negative ways and I struggle with what others take for granted and don't think twice about-- but-- it's only natural under such circumstances..... heh-- maybe I'm still in "denial", some might say-- but I don't see it that way.

I hope you won't ever feel powerless in your situations with your Care Plan. I hope you find that revealing things leads to understanding and compassion. It can be so difficult for some of us to trust, as we've usually been painfully betrayed in our past.

I hope you will keep us posted as to how things are going..... I'm here if you want to 'talk'.

Lennie-

mandy

[Lennie]

Bless you Mandy ......that's how I think most days. "I'M NOT ILL I'VE JUST HAD TO DEAL WITH SOME CRAP I DID NEED HELP FOR A WHILE BUT NOT NOW - LEAVE ME ALONE!!!!"
Sometimes I think we live in a world full of people who wants to stick labels onto others just to justify having a career.
Sorry to sound cynical........
Now I feel trapped. If I say I don't want help they will say I'm being difficult and might put me into hospital against my will. If I carry on with the current regime I think I'm going to explode!!! I've mentioned over the past 2 months about having less contact with my CPN and Support Worker - I currently have 2 visits and 3 phone calls a week.....but my CPN always talks me out of it as he thinks I'm pushing him away. All I want is one day during the week when I'm not a 'mental patient'!!! I'm left alone at the weekends thank goodness!!

[Doh2007]

I'm just taking a guess, but could this be transference? Sometimes we relate to people in authoritative positions with feelings that are buried in our childhoods.

[RiverX]

Hi,
Ah, now as I start to try to explain a sort of 'log jam' effect happens. I think those growing up dynamics can be SUBTLE! And with that crazy making, yet you know its there but when I try to 'prove' it, I feel like i'm gonna come out with a load of spiel.
My mum was N.ish, me and my sisters were actors in her fantasy world. When I was adult she wanted access to my partner and my son, I could be dead as far as she was concerned, - underneath that is-. thats more like appropriation, than invasion.
As a child somehow her wishes were carried out through me. I have a photo of me at about 4 yrs, the pose wasnt natural, I was posing for the camera and to be the fantasy that she wanted that was pervasive all through our childhood. Nothing to help one learn to adapt to reality or to learn to enjoy it, like that it really is quite a pleasant thing to leave on time for school, to manage and to adapt to the reality of time, to learn competence.

Its different for everyone, some are literally invaded by physical abuse.
Its so hard to put in a nutshell, but if that word triggered something for you, then you're probably onto something. For me, the distortions were so subtle, but yet caused chaos and hid some deeply nasty stuff.
thats the best i can do for now..... hope its in some way helpful??

river

[RiverX]

Hi,
</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
This Self in Exile disorder, is it something you personally have named

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">
Well this question inspired me to do some writing, this is what I came up with........ </font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
Why the name ‘Self in Exile’?
The name ‘self in Exile’ describes more closely our experience, than does the word 'schizoid'. This term was used as the title for the section on the Schizoid disorder, by Dr Klein in the book: ‘Disorders of the Self - New Therapeutic Horizons’, ( Klien + Masterson),

Who Does 'Self in Exile' Include?
It can be used as a collective term covering the spectrum of tendencies which have been named in various ways, ‘schizotypal’, ‘avoidant’, ‘schizoaffective’ etc. This can be helpful because although the behaviour may vary on the outside, it arises from the underlying 'internal structure' which we find, on deepening our awareness, is surprisingly similar. In this way we identify with eachother on a deeper level.
Each disorder of the self has its own different type of internal structure, (termed by professionals: 'intrapsychic structure').
The same principles can be applied here as in other recovery fellowships: if you identify with the experiences and have a desire for recovery, you have a place. Some may have identified these issues for themselves, and some may have been diagnosed by a professional. It becomes possible, step by step to take responsibility for our own healing. Some choose to get professional help also.
We are not professionals, from our own experiences in the disorder as well as in recovery, we become able to help each other. Our shared purpose is to strengthen and free our real self.


</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">

Thats now on the website. You may wonder what Im doing with this website thing too?
I think maybe I'll do a thread about that - if and when I can get it into more of a finished state, I might ask some people from here to go and see it.

I could really do with some help with it too. I guess I'd need to explain why I'm doing it, which would be quite long. In brief, tho, - its my attempt to 'turn suffering into meaning'. I've so damaged my life by the disorder and with out understanding it I couldnt begin to address my underlying problems. Then a few years ago I found and read about personality disorder, luckily for me, I self diagnosed which is much less pathologising than being 'diagnosed', as you imply.
I wanted to create something people could benefit from, and an opportunity for healing by helping eachother, as people do in such places as AA, for example, my expereinces of being 'helped' by professionals have been pretty appauling up to now, so much to say about all this, yeah, I had quite a lot of the same feelings as you have been having. Its a job to them, ITS MY SOUL TO ME!.

So, this website has been my best attempt so far, I'm still working on it. If I can get something up that can help others, and share the understanding that I now have, then my years of the disorder, all the damage I've done to myself and others wont be totally a waste, that is my hope.

river.

ps, I also did run away from school, but i didnt get all tht far, went straight into a more oppressive situation than I had left, thats another other story, .... the caravan sounds lovely, at least for a while, I've fantasised about that, wood fire, etc

[Lennie]

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
Doh2007 said:
I'm just taking a guess, but could this be transference? Sometimes we relate to people in authoritative positions with feelings that are buried in our childhoods.

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">

I've read about transference now.....and I agree that it could have something to do with it. I think the feeling of being out of control I have and the fear that they could put me into hospital against my will, is bringing back the emotions I felt when I was being abused. I feel violated to some extent because they have asked me personal probing questions and I have been a good little compliant girl again and told them everything. Also my CPN and I swap DVD's and he keeps them for ages - I know what he's doing.....its so he always has an excuse to come and see me (to return or pick up the DVD's) - well this reminds me of my paedo godfather grooming me. I'm not sure if this makes sense, but it's how I feel.

[Doh2007]

I know what it's like to grow up with a parent that violates your boundaries. I also developed a false self in an effort to please her. And I know what it's like to feel like someone has power over you.

Everything you say makes a lot of sense. It took a long time for me to find someone I could trust. Eventually I learned that my personality was not a disease.

I learned to talk to the doctor and tell him what I feared...like he might think I was crazy or whatever. It really helped to know what he was thinking instead of trying to guess.

[pachyderm]

mtd in a thread titled "Hate" on the abuse survivors forum (message #730504) wrote:

"I can relate, especially to the feeling that an abuser has "crept" inside and still has control over how I feel..."

I think the people that creep inside us are ones that we trust, and so we believe anything they say. It is so hard to not believe someone we take as an authority. I had a therapist do that to me once: after a long time in therapy I had come to trust him, and then he started issuing (very negative) judgements on what I told him about things I had done. I was completely unprepared for it, and it did get right inside of me.

ummmm Lennie-- I hope you don't mind this sort of "hijack" of your original post-- just related so much to what "doh" said here-- </font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
I also developed a false self in an effort to please her.

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post"> my gosh!!! that is just what I said yesterday in therapy!! I'm not kidding-- were you a fly on the wall??
I told T. that I have come to hate that other self. ... the other- lets people take advantage of her, lets them say mean things without a word of defense-- yuk.

Doh, it sure sounds like you have progressed leaps and bounds-- I think that is wonderful and so are you!

thanks Lennie-- hope you are doing OK today.

mandy

[RiverX]

How do you both experience that 'false self' thing when its happening?
Because, with me, it usually only ages after that I realise I said things that werent really what I meant or wanted. Like I squished myself.

But at the time it really legitimately seems like somehow the 'right' thing to do. I also hate this side of myself. Profs that I read call it a 'defense', They mean defense against being rejected or hurt etc, but that just doesnt quite fit what goes on with me, its too reflex to be called that, and besides, its feels a bit like being called a moral coward, its not really like that. It feels more like a neurological gap where my nerve pathways just dont have continuity, get interrupted.
What does it feel like when its happening with you .....??

[_Hope_]

[RiverX]

Aw! ((((((((((hope))))))))))

[Robert31]

Hi Lennie! When I was first diagnosed 11 yrs ago with bpd I felt the same as you. I went through many diagnoses before anyone figured what I had. Mental health professionals, my case manager all tried to help. They said they understood how I felt and this infuriated me because they DIDN'T know how I felt. At the time I didn't realize they were only trying to help and they didn't truly understand what it meant to be borderline. When they said or did the least little thing I would get very angry and tell them to go away and I never wanted to see them again. Once I calmed down(days later), I would go back, sometimes crying, saying I was sorry and that I didn't really mean it, I just wanted all the pain to go away. They understood. They continued to help and supprt me and would sometimes talk to me about how I felt uncensored. Then after time I slowly let people in. I am always afraid to let certain people know how I really feel because of the judgment and I do enough of that myself. You are not a freak and no one hates you. I consider this one of the phases you go through in trying to understand bpd. Don't ever be ashamed of your feelings, because they are your feelings. Things will get better. Talking with others about how you feel will help you process how you feel and give you a better understanding of yourself. I hope this helps.