losing momentum

When the suffering has been lessened, and life is back to functioning, how do you keep up the drive to heal? I'm back to mindless going through the motions. Because this existence is bearable, I'm stalling out. But this is not what I want...

I don't know if this will help, but I keep up the motivation to keep working on stuff because I know otherwise it will come and bite me again. My drive to work is the hope that I will be able to keep myself from going through the same thing again. That is what keeps me plugging along. When I get the break from the tough stuff, then I can reach into the darker stuff without the same fear that it is going to destroy my life while I am trying to deal with it.

Jexa I REALLY identify with this. believe it or not, one of the things that most motivates me to keep going is to come to PC and be among all these brave and compassionate friends. When i see how resolutely they face their own struggles, I find no excuse to slack off in face of my own.

And this even more: I have looked long at the idea of divine Providence, and have accepted that that's how I got into this therapy, with this T, at this (late) stage of my life; and now I have to respond to that gift, to do my end of it the best I can, even when the urge to quit is strong.

I know it's hard. This is for you, friend

I find something "interesting" to me to work on or get curious about "what if I do X" and try it, make it a little bit of a game if I can so it's like an experiment. Get "outside" yourself a bit and look at what you're thinking/feeling as if you were reading about you or someone was telling you about a case like yours and see if anything you'd say or suggest might help if you try it.

I love to read and had a HUGE amount of success reading "young adult" books, especially by writers such as Nina Kiriki Hoffman and Madeleine L'Engle.

It's a difficult time, I know personally when I have started to feel a bit better is when I usualy go off my meds. When you start to feel OKish it is a time to be happy that you don't feel like do-do, but it is also important to rember that just as things go from bad to not so bad, they can flip the other way as well.

Lesson I have had to learn several times the hard way.

Now I am so sad. I went to T last night and I had a really hard time speaking at all. I know we need to talk about certain things but I don't want to. I told her that.. And I told her why.. Talking about certain things gives me an awful unclean feeling. She said that's not how she wants me to feel. So does that mean she doesn't want to talk about it?? She also said she wasn't sure if we were on the same page with goals and asked what it would look like when therapy is over. I left feeling shut down. I feel like she wants me gone and doesn't want me to talk about certain things because they make me feel bad. Yuck... I don't want to go back. I just want to cry.

Oh, ((((Jexa)))) Are you thinking at all about moving on to a different T? Those are weird sentences to say to you, especially since you dont say you think you want therapy to be over. Im sorry. I think that would leave me with a feeling like she didnt want to continue, too. Can you talk to her about goals for therapy? Im sure you have. Why does she think the two of you arent on the same page?

(((Jexa)))) This sounds painful.

Dear Jexa!! what I hear yr T saying is that she has sympathy for your feelings when talking about something hard - but you both know that the only way out is through - the time will come when you need to get through that, she will wait for you.

asking what woudl it be like when therapy is over is (at least in my T's case) a way of saying, let's look at a bright happy day; what do you like best about it? She meant it to give me hopefulness, to put a little solidity into the vision. If I could say, for example, that on that day I can know someone's anger at me and not go into spirals of fear and anguish over their possible rejection and abandonment - then T sees one of the pathways we need to make to get to that day.

I hasten to add!! that when T asked me this, I told her I don't know what that day will be like; I can't see it from here; she understands that too, and said, it's OK. And it is for you too. Know that that day is out there, Jexa, even though the road seems long; yr T is not trying to push you out the door.

Blue.. I definitely, definitely don't want to move on to a new T. Actually I feel more connected to her than I've ever felt to another T. I just really don't want her to kick me out!

We might not feel on the same page about goals because I refuse to tell her my goals. We've talked about goals and in the past she was fine with the lack of a concrete "this is when therapy will be over." I'm making tons of progress, so why should I tell her the endpoint? I don't want to tell her the endpoint because then I'll be afraid to reach it because she'll make me go away then! And what if I'm not ready?? And she makes me go away when I don't want to? And actually we talked about this too in my session yesterday, my fear of the end of therapy, but remembering that makes it worse because I'm so worried this conversation was foreshadowing for her kicking me out. I'm not ready! I'm NOT READY!! I'm NOT DONE!!

And so I guess I'm afraid to continue because who KNOWS when she's going to make me go away??

SAWE.. you're probably right. I guess I don't know what the truth is, what she's getting at.. but the truth is she didn't SAY she was trying to make me go away. And I guess there is more than one way of interpreting this..

So I just sent my T an email that said this:

In my mind I am so convinced you are trying to kick me out now, and don’t want me to talk anymore.

Ughhh this is probably just my head.

"So I just sent my T an email that said this.."

Jexa I think that was very brave, and very necessary for your peace. I'm glad you did it.

I'm at work and seriously on the verge of tears about this. What is wrong with me?

Aw jexa! I understand your pain and fear. I do the same thing, try and try to look for ways T is trying to get rid of me because I'm SO frustrating/annoying/boring...blah blah blah. I have spent the last 2+ yrs constantly being worried that I am going to reach this invisible timeline where she will be like "that's it! I'm fed up!" And kick me out, despite her saying to me multiple times that she is not kicking me out.

It has been very hard, because she may say those words, but there is also so much that she doesn't say that makes my mind spin in circles. Like "ok so you may not actually kick me out, but you aren't wanting to help, and in fact just biding your time until I get so sick of myself and quit!" I actually just told her this part a few weeks ago. She said that she does think I want to change and she wouldn't continue to see me if she didn't think so. That made me feel better that I KNOW she will kick me out if she sees I don't want to work, and not for some random reason like I'm the most difficult/frustrating patient ever.

What I JUST figured out last night was that that fear has dissipated a lot since that day. And even more so this past week when I realized I was grateful for the session earlier that day where she didn't seem to mind that I spent most of the session in silence and said she knew how hard it was for me.

But what really scares me is what will happen if I let go of that worry?! All my energy has been focused on being afraid of what she thinks, and if I don't worry about that...I will really have to worry about other stuff. Harder stuff.

Woops, sorry for the ramble.

UGH AND NOW SHE WRITES THIS BACK:

Definitely not what I'm saying. I do see it as my role, though, to get you to ask yourself the questions you want me to ask, etc.

What does THAT mean??????????

(((((Jexa))))))

I can't think right now, and will try to think tomorrow and give you a better reply. But I wanted to make sure you know you are cared about.

Thanks googley.. I needed that.

Is she trying to maybe give you a push in some direction she believes you want to go in but dont say so? Im just grasping here...maybe she wants YOU to ask yourself what are my ulimate goals?

I'll tell you, I dont think in therapy I ever outlined specific goals. I may have said generally that I wanted to work on my marriage, on trauma, on feelings I have abour myself. Is there maybe a reason you can come up with that she would want to put the ball in your court? I think if my T said that to me Id feel really overwhelmed tothe point where I would feel like I was being given a task I cannot complete and so she wants to get rid of me that way!

Maybe you can ask her? What is she trying to do with you? SOmething like that?

I think Id would definitely feel the same way as you. Id feel like crying and like even my T isnt on my side Im sorry that this is so hard. Can I give you a million hugs????

It's okay now. Two glasses of wine and a bubble bath make life a little easier. Also I emailed T this:

We’re just going to have to talk about this on Friday because I don’t get how that relates. Why am I freaking out about this? Ugh!

And then this:

Wait, sorry, I mean, it’s not your fault, I’m just frustrated with myself, and thanks for replying. I do appreciate it. I just still think you’re trying to kick me out, and I wish I didn’t think that.

And then she said:

I wish you didn't think that, too. Definitely wasn't my intent.

I still don't like that reply. But it's better than, I want you to ask YOURSELF the questions I ask you (WTF does that mean anyway, how the hell do I do that???). At least she said something more reassuring. Ugh I wish I could talk to her NOW to straighten this out

>>> "I want you to ask YOURSELF the questions I ask you" (what does that mean anyway, how the hell do I do that???).

This made sense to me Jexa, here's my take FWIW.
I don't understand myself well, don't yet have the habit of analyzing my thoughts or actions before I speak or act; so my T will ask,

"do you think you may have internalized this [aspect of my parent's behavior] and are now carrying it on yourself? " or

"is there ever a time when you feel ______?" or even

"why didn't you do that?" (this last is a painful one)

When she asks me these, types of things, I am usually speechless, but I do go home asking myself these questions - which I need to be asking myself, but can't yet, and which she has asked for me, so I can hear them - and by the time I see her again I've often come up with some kind of reply, which I share with her. Sometimes I am way off (OK, more than sometimes) but sometimes I do come up with a good answer, a good understanding. jexa

Thanks SAWE... thing is, I do ask myself questions and consider myself insightful. I think a lot about why I do things and such. Ohhh but I DON'T think about the solutions for trauma issues and sexual related issues because I don't WANT to. And this is what I'm struggling to try to talk about in therapy. I'm struggling to even think of therapy topics about this. This stuff scares the hell out of me! Do you think that's what she means?

And how, when a part of the problem is BIGTIME avoidance, do you allow your mind to ask those questions and go there? I have this huge mental block!! If that's what she means, ughh WHAT questions? I can't think of even one.

Jexa-I don't think she is saying that she isn't willing and able to listen to what you need to talk about when you are ready, instead I think that she is saying that she wishes that the topics you need to discuss would not cause you such pain. She wishes that you didn't have reason to need to talk about such painful topics.

I think one thing about T goals is that they can be ever changing. When I started T a goal of dealing with being attacked never would have even been on the table for being something to be talked about, much less processed. I don't think I told my newest T I had after it happened about it. I know I didn't tell the one after that about it until I had been seeing her for a long time. But it still wasn't something we were ready to deal with. At that point it was more family stuff and how to deal with them when I went home for school breaks. But now that I am ready, the goal of dealing with the attack is a goal for T. So the goals can change over time. After I process this it might be a goal of dealing with the idea of being in a relationship. But right now that isn't a goal. So goals can change over time. New things develop. That doesn't mean that goals are not good. But they are flexible.

I don't think your T will "kick" you out of T. She will let you work until you are ready to go. And then it wont be as scary because you will be ready. I totally know what you mean though about being afraid that T is trying to get rid of you. I went through this one week with my last T and pdoc convinced that they were both trying to get rid of me. I have no idea where the thought came from. As they had said nothing of the sort. I went into T furious at T and pdoc for trying to get rid of me. But my T was able to calm me down and explain that she was not trying to get rid of me, and neither was pdoc. Your T isn't trying to get rid of you. Though I know that it can be really hard to believe. Especially if we feel like we deserve to be gotten rid of. That the yucky part of inside of us should make them want to get rid of us. That if they knew how bad it was, they will be disgusted and reject us.

I think that this refers back to the topic of goals. She wants you to lead the T in the way to dealing with things that you see as important. But if you wont talk about goals, then she is left to try and guess at what is important to you. Just a guess.

Have you discussed the mental block you have when it comes to talking about this? Sometimes process comments about how hard it is are important. It will let her know why you seem to be "avoiding" (not that you are) these tough issues. She can't know what is going on in your head when you don't talk about it, so she has to guess. She wants you to go at a pace that is comfortable for you, but doesn't know where to go exactly. That is what I get from what she has written to you.

I hope you talk to your T about all this. It is important to talk about the difficulty of talking about some of these things before we talk about them. To make sure that it is safe and our experiences will be accepted.

Be gentle. I think your T cares a lot about you and just wants to make sure that the two of you are working on things that are important to you, and not things that she only thinks is important.

>>>> how, when a part of the problem is BIGTIME avoidance, do you allow your mind to ask those questions and go there?

I am Mrs Avoidance herself (that's why I call myself SAWE). Here is one thing that may sound strange but worked for me:
Put a pillow in yr car and drive out to some spot where you know you won't be seen or disturbed [note: a safe spot. Not some isolated country road, but maybe a big church parking lot on a weekday].
Roll up the windows and see if you can picture a person who traumatized you, or if it's not too much, run the tape in your head of something that happened and then talk to the person - tell them how much you hated what was done to you, and how it has affected you, and how much you resent that - scream, yell, punch that pillow - this may sound "crazy" but I have done it a few times, and it helps me. Let the tears come - I couldn't find them any other way - and next time you see T, tell about trying this and see what the response is. If you are asked questions you will see how Ts mind is working to understand what you processed - and you could start there.

Do you think this could help?

Yep, that's what T said. But, well, I don't always know what the goal is, you know? I guess I'm worried I'll have a feeling like things aren't done but I don't know what should change. And I am afraid that she will say goodbye at THAT point. You know? That once I've reached the goals we talked about, and I don't have a new goal to give her, that she will say, "You're done!" and if I still feel like I'm not, she will think I'm just scared to not have her support anymore.

Maybe she'll be right. Losing that support IS so difficult. It's true. So maybe that fear (being scared to leave once I have achieved my goals) is actually the thing that's unfinished, the thing I will need to get over before I leave. I hope I don't still have this fear and then I have to leave anyway!! I am so scared of leaving T that I am having crazy thoughts about SI or self-sabotage just to show her that I need her! This is not a good place to go in my thoughts. This is NOT healthy! She's not even really trying to kick me out yet! Ugh!

Quote:

Originally Posted by googley I don't think your T will "kick" you out of T. She will let you work until you are ready to go. And then it wont be as scary because you will be ready. ... Your T isn't trying to get rid of you. Though I know that it can be really hard to believe. Especially if we feel like we deserve to be gotten rid of. That the yucky part of inside of us should make them want to get rid of us. That if they knew how bad it was, they will be disgusted and reject us.

How do I know I'm ready to leave T then? When I've reached my goals? That's why I don't want goals!

I guess it's that I worry that if I get better I won't be worth her time anymore.. I'm not even sure it's the bad part of me I think she'll reject. She's a T; she sees people's bad parts all the time. It's more like, if I don't have MAJOR issues, I feel like I don't deserve attention at ALL. It's like, I NEED to have at least one major problem to be deserving of anyone's care. Because if I wasn't TRULY needy and in pain, then my needs wouldn't EVER get met. Wow! That is what I am afraid of!

I feel like if I set goals, this fear will actually KEEP me from reaching them, because reaching goals, and not having any more goals, means the end (which means I don't deserve ANYONE'S attention anymore, even though that doesn't make sense). I have been making progress in therapy. A lot of progress. Things are much better! But I KNOW if I had set clear goals I would NOT have made progress because I'm afraid of not having problems. I would have self-sabotaged and ruined it. I just know that's what I would have done.

Quote:

Originally Posted by googley I think that this refers back to the topic of goals. She wants you to lead the T in the way to dealing with things that you see as important. But if you wont talk about goals, then she is left to try and guess at what is important to you. Just a guess.

Yes, that's definitely true, and something she said. But so far we've been doing FINE without goals. Maybe I try to clarify the direction I want us to take without saying, "This is the endpoint when I will be all better." Oh but even that feels like foreshadowing for getting kicked out! I wish this wasn't such an issue! Why can't we just do what we've BEEN doing, and go on like this forever? I know why.. But I don't like it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by googley Have you discussed the mental block you have when it comes to talking about this? Sometimes process comments about how hard it is are important. It will let her know why you seem to be "avoiding" (not that you are) these tough issues. She can't know what is going on in your head when you don't talk about it, so she has to guess.

Um, I've somewhat discussed the mental block. I said it's hard to bring these things up, and I talked about the ick feelings I have about it. But I don't really know what the hell the mental block is about with this specific thing. I know what the mental block is with GOALS, but I have other things going on besides this specific issue, so the fear I just talked about (fear of the end of therapy, connected to fear of not deserving attention) doesn't explain the mental block in this case. I've already disclosed the worst of it pretty much (well, no actual memories, but she said we don't have to go into memories and will just focus on the now), so why is it still so hard to even think about, let alone talk about in person? I still don't know completely.

Maybe it has to do with an "under the microscope" and "exposed/dirty" feeling but that doesn't feel like it explains the whole picture. My mind is just refusing to go there, even when I'm not feeling anything at all connected to it. In fact, mostly when I try to think about it I just feel totally BLANK, no emotions, no thoughts, NOTHING. And then other times out of nowhere (not at times I'm trying to think of what to talk about in therapy - it never comes when I actually want it to) thoughts about it will come to me, and I'll feel dirty and wish I hadn't said anything at all.

Thanks googley so much for this. Your questions really helped! And you're right - I think this T cares a lot, much more than others I've had. I'm going to tell my T all of this next session.

Well... we're not talking about memories but maybe I should go there for myself so that I can focus on the now. Thanks SAWE, that's a good idea.

Jexa... one of my FOO told me, I had a much harder life than you; I know you well; in my eyes you have no reason for seeing a T and are wasting her time ... I was very upset about this (no kidding, having been working on this for 2 yrs already, and no end in sight) and I asked T if she agreed. With the most serious face she said, absolutely not. And added, no one can tell you that; every person's experience is completely his/her own.
Judith Viorst in "Necessary Losses" quotes a story, based on fact, in which two siblings have diametrically opposed experiences of the same mother: encouraging / discouraging, caring / neglectful, cherishing / devaluing, etc. Same mother, two siblings, totally different. It really can happen.
So yr T doesn't have to see that you were involved in what the DSM classifies as a traumatic experience; if TO YOU it was traumatic, then it really was, and she works with you on yr trauma. Etc, etc. She is there to deal with YOUR issues, not to measure them and judge them.

Ugh SAWE! That is an awful thing for someone to say, especially if we doubt ourselves already! My siblings say I shouldn't obsess so much about therapy, but no one tells me I am wasting my T's time. Truth is they know I need it. When my OCD got bad, everyone could tell I needed help (I was spending up to 8 hours a day ritualizing - it was like I lost control of both my mind AND my body). Now I'm functioning but no one in my life is questioning whether I need therapy after my crazy episode. I'm so glad because if anyone did I would SO lose it.

When I was younger, though, and very depressed (my parents thought I was just being an angsty teen but this was more than simple teen angst) I kept getting told I was fine, I was fine, I was just going through a phase. But no one knew I had experienced CSA and was currently being SA by my grandfather and finally understanding exactly what he was doing now that I was a young teen. This is when I started to SI. All those years I never got help. So maybe that's where this is coming from. I still do need help. I'm so afraid that I won't get it.. that no one will hear me.. now that my OCD is better who will still hear me? But T will.. she will... *sigh* Why is it so hard to trust?