[BlueMoon6]

I had my session on monday and I was fine after the session, but now I dont feel so "fine."

I spent the majority of the session talking about my girls and what goes on between them. How each is finding their own way and it isnt easy for either of them and how I can help and guide them. Then I talked about my H and mothers day. okay, fine. I save the more difficult stuff for the last 10 minutes. I do this all the time. I went on to my spiritual issues and she seemed very open to talking about it as a therapy issue.

Once I got talking about some specific experiences and beliefs, it lead to issues with my father (male God) and men. Then onto mother stuff. I felt like I needed another hour at that point. There is so much behind what draws me toward this or that direction. I didnt expect to be talking about parent stuff or how I felt around my mother or father. Maybe this whole quest for something greater, a connectedness to the universe is just a big 'ol longing for mommy and daddy. And a place to call home.

There wasnt enough time at all to delve as deeply as we were going and the session ended just as I was getting to things I needed to talk about. When she said, "we have to stop now" I felt like she just wanted me to shut up and get out of there. Which is probably not so! The session was over, but it felt that way. Like she sees this dirty and disgusting part of me and she feels this way about me and just wanted me out of her office. I feel embarrassed and shame.

And that is how Im feeling now. yucky. I had such a busy day, but when things quiet down at night I feel that yuckiness all over again. If I stay busy with the trillion things I have to do during the day, I am fine. I dont think about it, its at night when everyone is asleep and Im alone with myself that I feel like shame and hated by the world. I told her I feel like I was damaged at the deepest part of me and I can never heal the damage that was done. It takes so much effort and I wont really be healed. I'll be broken pieces held together with tape and glue, I want to feel whole and comfortable in this world but I never will.

[CindyLuWho]

Sometimes, it takes me a day or two after a session to process what went on. I usually leave euphoric, feeling I made some sort of breakthrough... 2 days later, reality has set back in and I'm back to just coping every day.

[looking4polaris]

Originally Posted by BlueMoon6

I had my session on monday and I was fine after the session, but now I dont feel so "fine."

Sorry you are feeling this way Blue. Can you maybe do some writing/journal about the feelings you are having? You really express them well. Then maybe you can start with that material at your next session and not feel like you are rushed at the end just when you are getting to the deep stuff. I know it is hard to be stuck carrying around all that really heavy material all week (or weeks) until the next session. Maybe writing about it would help you feel like you are getting some of it out temporarily and lightening the load a bit when those quiet, end of the day times come. Hope you feel better soon.

Originally Posted by BlueMoon6

I told her I feel like I was damaged at the deepest part of me and I can never heal the damage that was done. It takes so much effort and I wont really be healed.

OMG, Blue, I said this exact thing to my T yesterday

It's SUCH a yucky feeling to really FEEL how deep and seemly irreparable the damage is. And it's an awful feeling to be left with after therapy.

Sometimes I ask T to tell me stories of people who he's worked with who have healed, and he does, and I know he wouldn't lie, and that gives me some hope. There just HAS to be healing after all of this work, you know? I know that on some level, I believe it's possible, or I wouldn't keep showing up session after session after session.

But. Sometimes when I really FEEL the core of the damage and the shame and the yuckiness, it just feels so overwhelmingly big and TRUE that I get scared that healing isn't possible and in the end, T and I will just have to find a way to put a band aid on the wound to hide it and that will be that. I hate that feeling.

Just in the time I've known you, Blue, you've made SUCH huge changes, and you've grown SO much. I really believe - really, really believe - that if anyone can overcome those feelings, you can. Because you are NOT damaged beyond repair, and anyone watching you on your journey can clearly see that.

I heard someone say one "we can't heal what we don't feel" and I do think that's true. If we don't reach down and touch those hurt parts of us, if we just ignore them and wish they weren't there, things are never going to change. I think feeling and accepting what's there is part of the healing. And you are doing it.

to you, Blue. It won't always feel this bad.

[WePow]

Wow .... so much healing going on!! Sending BIG hugs!!!!

[BlueMoon6]

CindyLuWHo- That happens to me, too. I am fine and then not so fine as my brain process during the week. The stuff comes back up as I get tiggered during the week and its so much closer to the surface.

I love your name! Isnt CindyLuWHo the Who with hope?

[BlueMoon6]

L4P- Writing is a really good idea for this week. I feel so much coming up. Sometimes I think I use PC as my journal. I write it out here and get feedback. But there is so much the was brought up in those last 10 minutes that I could go on and on.

I have so little time. Maybe tonight when everyone is sleeping instead of PC I'll write. Its a really good suggestion- thanks

[BlueMoon6]

Tree- Are you really feeling that way? Its funny how you see healing possible in me and I see the healing possibilities in you. That you have the ability to be free and whole. But when it comes to me, I feel like my core is not repairable. I can only hide the damage and live with it. And at any moment the places I repaired will fall apart.

I am feeling the exact same way. That I feel the core shame and I have to hide who I really feel that I am. This disgusting and dirty child who is not deserving of anything. I have to pretend I deserve, but I know deep down that I dont. Can I relly just pile on layers of "I do deserve, I do deserve" when it is so deep that I dont deserve and I am not worth it. And then the deepest part of me does not trust that male people (I am not saying men b/c as a child it was male big people) wont hurt me. T and I went over different people in my life and the things that are different about them than my father. But I dont think that can be healed. It is instinctual for me to expect that they will hurt me/will act nice but be bad. On the other hand, I am married and have a number of male people in my life that I dont do that with. I dont see that male/hurt me thing. I have to get to know someone real well before I trust them. T wants me to slow down and not to have a (not noticable to anyone else) panic with men I dont know well. And she gave me things to say to myself. But it all seems like SO MUCH WORK and I wont truly be healed. I feel so damaged in this way from so so so very young that this is who I am. I am afraid and I dont trust. I have this initial panic reaction and go into "blank out" panic mode and cannot remember to say these things to myself. It is so so hard to slow down and talk myself through the fear. "This is not my father, I am not a child who is powerless....this person is different from my father in XYZ ways...." It sounds simple, but it is SO hard and difficult and painful. To step aside from the fear and think differently.

When I think of "we cant feel what we dont feel" I think of feeling the fear and going right into it and through it and onto the other side. I guess the other side being aware of feeling afraid, its okay to be afraid, and to notice of the differences between how I felt as a child with a big male person and how he/I am different in this situation right here and now.

This is SO HARD.......

And thanks WePow...hugs right back atcha....

[SpottedOwl]

Originally Posted by BlueMoon6

I didnt expect to be talking about parent stuff or how I felt around my mother or father. Maybe this whole quest for something greater, a connectedness to the universe is just a big 'ol longing for mommy and daddy. And a place to call home.

I found myself spending a lot of time thinking about my parents when I delved into spirituality as well. I think we are all connected, and understanding our ancestry is one way to learn who we are. If we can look at the formative bonds with our parents, we can see how we were taught to connect with the world. That knowledge is priceless, because once we understand what 'programming' we received, it is so much easier to 'reprogram' things the way we want them.

If you are having a difficult time with the 'male' God, I would suggest connecting with Mother Earth. Feel the feminine energy of life-giving, of comfort, and nourishment. Imagine you are a little seed, and the earth is surrounding you and holding you and keeping you safe until the 'right' time to sprout.

I personally find it is a balance. I view the feminine part of God as being the earth, and the masculine part of God as being the sun. We need both the earth and the sun to grow. But without some strong roots, any little seedling will be burned by the sun. And without enough sun, it will be hard to grow.

There is no 'right or wrong', there is only what you need *right now* to help you find that balance.

I told her I feel like I was damaged at the deepest part of me and I can never heal the damage that was done. It takes so much effort and I wont really be healed. I'll be broken pieces held together with tape and glue, I want to feel whole and comfortable in this world but I never will.

The tree that has the strongest trunk is the one that withstood the winds. You can bend a sapling, and it grows back stronger. I know you feel like you will always be broken, but IMHO, all of this 'wind' is just making you one strong and resilient person.

It is so so hard to end a session like that....I hate that feeling of ending just as the wounds have been ripped open, and you're left to ooze and feel the pain until the next session.

I hope you can continue to write about it and next time you see your T, maybe ask if she sees you as yucky and if she believes you can heal.

[sittingatwatersedge]

Dear Blue (and Tree), I said the same things to my T. that I have an awful feeling the reason i won't hurt so much in future is not because of healing but because of scar tissue, in which there are no nerve endings. that some day I will be a jigsaw puzzle held together by scar tissue.

T assures me it's not so. She gave me a little bit of her own history one day, and in spite of it I can see the healthy "tissue" in her, not scars. She's told me a little here and there about other clients' healing too. And look at this... Blue Moon started on PC swayed by every piece of advice given her - I say this with great affection, Blue, because today you are so much stronger than that!! And Treehouse's story of healing is a joy to behold.

Blue's questions (can i really just keep layering on "I am deserving" and some day change what is so deep within)... hard questions, big questions. T says sometimes the journey is long. But Tree is right; there will come an end, a good ending.

Still it's hard to remember to counter this by remembering to tell myself this, to do this, to try not to do that, to combat this, watch out for that... I feel like John Wayne's little bunch trying to hold out against a big Indian attack, they just keep coming from every direction. ...
well.... let 'em come on then.
I'll watch your back, if you'll watch mine.

[FooZe]

Wow, you guys! What a great thread! This isn't the best time for me to be trying to comment but I couldn't resist saying something...

Originally Posted by BlueMoon6

Maybe this whole quest for something greater, a connectedness to the universe is just a big 'ol longing for mommy and daddy. And a place to call home.

Both may very well be parts of the same thing but that doesn't mean one is "nothing but" [you didn't say that, I did] the other. You could every bit as well say that a longing for mommy and daddy and a place to call home is one more expression of the quest for something greater, a connectedness to the universe.

Originally Posted by BlueMoon6

Like she sees this dirty and disgusting part of me and she feels this way about me and just wanted me out of her office. I feel embarrassed and shame.

... its at night when everyone is asleep and Im alone with myself that I feel like shame and hated by the world. I told her I feel like I was damaged at the deepest part of me and I can never heal the damage that was done. It takes so much effort and I wont really be healed. I'll be broken pieces held together with tape and glue, I want to feel whole and comfortable in this world but I never will.

Originally Posted by treehouse

Sometimes when I really FEEL the core of the damage and the shame and the yuckiness, it just feels so overwhelmingly big and TRUE that I get scared that healing isn't possible and in the end, T and I will just have to find a way to put a band aid on the wound to hide it and that will be that. I hate that feeling.

In my experience, healing doesn't come from arguing with those feelings or trying to change them. You move on through them, let them come up and be there, until they lose all their significance and pretty much evaporate. Then you have space to put something better into.

Originally Posted by treehouse

I really believe - really, really believe - that if anyone can overcome those feelings, you can.

I agree, except that as I said, it's not about "overcoming" exactly...

Originally Posted by treehouse

I heard someone say one "we can't heal what we don't feel" and I do think that's true. If we don't reach down and touch those hurt parts of us, if we just ignore them and wish they weren't there, things are never going to change. I think feeling and accepting what's there is part of the healing. It won't always feel this bad.

That's pretty much what I was trying to say! Reach down, touch, experience and accept.

G'night!

[rainbow8]

(((Blue)))

Just think of the depth you and I are reaching with our new Ts! We could never have done this work with our other ones. Never!!! That's why it feels so bad. We're actually WORKING ON IT and that is painful!! You are such a good person; it makes me sad to think that you feel so damaged. Stay with it, and the T will work. I know you're in good hands with ftt.

I also hate when I bring up something important at the end of the session and then it's time to stop. I used to do that all of the time, but it made me feel so, so terrible that I try to bring up the important stuff right away, though I don't always succeed. I hope you feel better soon.

[BlueMoon6]

Originally Posted by SpottedOwl

I found myself spending a lot of time thinking about my parents when I delved into spirituality as well. I think we are all connected, and understanding our ancestry is one way to learn who we are. If we can look at the formative bonds with our parents, we can see how we were taught to connect with the world.

It seemed like the feelings I have about God (or whoever that would be) or the connectedness to the infinite, the natural world, inner peace, "heave" or anything of that sort is related to how I experienced my mother early on and my father early on. Does that mean its all a bunch of hooey in my imagination and Im just searching for a home? And if it is not hooey, then how can I connect in the way I want to if I am so damaged that I cant relate to God unless I fit Her (LOL!Him?) in and around that damage? Its all jusst formations in my mind. I have that peace actually within me and the ability to connect within me, I can feel that when I meditate and am in yoga class. But what does that have to do with God? If its in me, it doesnt have anything to do with God. I dont know...now Im rambling....

If you are having a difficult time with the 'male' God,

You cant imagine how this is for me. It is impossible. I cant do a male God. I just cant. And I cant do a male therapist. I want to, but I just cannot. I so badly want to heal that part of me, but I dont know how. I want to and I feel so horribly stuck. There is no way I could see a male God creating me, believing I am worthy, all that.

I would suggest connecting with Mother Earth. Feel the feminine energy of life-giving, of comfort, and nourishment. Imagine you are a little seed, and the earth is surrounding you and holding you and keeping you safe until the 'right' time to sprout.

Oh, Spotted. You are SO wonderful. This SO works for me. I have done this before and I find that connecting with the universe and nature as it is, as it is part of me and I am part of it, made of the universe, feeling interconnected that way. It is feminine or just neither female or male. It just IS. Then I feel wanted.

I talked about with T that I dont feel this way about my husband, I believe he cares about me, though I DO have an issue believing he truly cares. And I dont feel this way about my sons, I know they adore me and I adore them. And I have some male friends. So, what is that about? T said I just dont see gender with them, I see them as people. But why? (I can understand my sons, of course). And I definitely DO see my H as male. I am confused and dont understand myself in this regard.

I personally find it is a balance. I view the feminine part of God as being the earth, and the masculine part of God as being the sun. We need both the earth and the sun to grow. But without some strong roots, any little seedling will be burned by the sun. And without enough sun, it will be hard to grow.

I have to think about this. It is very peaceful and soothing. It makes me think of something buddhist that I finally understood after reading a wonderful book. That our bodies are elements of air, water, fire and air. I never understood this. But it is very much like like what you wrote about. And that is the connection to the universe. The way we pulsate like the universe around us. This is not triggering for me. It is soothing and makes me feel good.

There is no 'right or wrong', there is only what you need *right now* to help you find that balance.

Wow. Thank you for saying this. It is just what I need right now.

The tree that has the strongest trunk is the one that withstood the winds. You can bend a sapling, and it grows back stronger. I know you feel like you will always be broken, but IMHO, all of this 'wind' is just making you one strong and resilient person.

Thank you, Spotted. I hope so. It does feel like I will always have this broken part of me. I cannot imagine being healed from this. I feel like Iwas born broken, but that isnt possible, I guess.

[BlueMoon6]

Originally Posted by sittingatwatersedge

Dear Blue (and Tree), I said the same things to my T. that I have an awful feeling the reason i won't hurt so much in future is not because of healing but because of scar tissue, in which there are no nerve endings. that some day I will be a jigsaw puzzle held together by scar tissue.

I understand what you mean by this. That the scar tissue is just from so many years of living damaged. You can get around it at this point, but it isnt the way it is supposed to be.

T assures me it's not so. She gave me a little bit of her own history one day, and in spite of it I can see the healthy "tissue" in her, not scars. She's told me a little here and there about other clients' healing too. And look at this... Blue Moon started on PC swayed by every piece of advice given her - I say this with great affection, Blue, because today you are so much stronger than that!! And Treehouse's story of healing is a joy to behold.

It is wonderful that T gave you so much of herself. I think that disclosing by T can be so incredibly healing. It can open the door. Ftt does self-disclose, but nothing as personal as that. I dont want to "look" healed and have a healed-looking story. Do you know what I mean? I want to be free. I want to have an inner life of peace and not be triggered or have any part of my life or day directed by triggers and damage.
Was I really so swayed??? Oh, jeez....I know I have grown so much in the last year (almost) that I have been here. And I am in awe of the healing we are all witnessing in Tree. Her struggles and the battles she has so BRAVELY won. And they are battles. Sometimes I feel like what is the use of battling like this? Will I ever heal this core damage? I dont even know how to approach it. Or exactly what the problem is. I think I have scratched the surface with T, but how can I move further if I am so not sure. Maybe its just stuff I was too young to remember. I have a feeling that this a big part of it.

Blue's questions (can i really just keep layering on "I am deserving" and some day change what is so deep within)... hard questions, big questions. T says sometimes the journey is long. But Tree is right; there will come an end, a good ending.

How do you know? Im sorry, I have to ask

Still it's hard to remember to counter this by remembering to tell myself this, to do this, to try not to do that, to combat this, watch out for that... I feel like John Wayne's little bunch trying to hold out against a big Indian attack, they just keep coming from every direction. ...
well.... let 'em come on then.
I'll watch your back, if you'll watch mine.

Oh, SAWE I know you are struggling the same way I will watch for attacks and be your John Wayne if you be mine

[BlueMoon6]

FooZe- I hope you got some sleep...considering it has been 2 days since you posted your reply and I got a chance to come here and respond....sigh....

I think I can only feel it. You are right and Tree is right. I want to say all of this to T but it will be hard. Really hard. I am going to print out this thread for monday. I felt gross and disgusting and shame. Im not really sure why. It seems like I am pulling apart the deepest core of me.

[BlueMoon6]

Originally Posted by rainbow8

(((Blue)))

Just think of the depth you and I are reaching with our new Ts! We could never have done this work with our other ones. Never!!! That's why it feels so bad. We're actually WORKING ON IT and that is painful!! You are such a good person; it makes me sad to think that you feel so damaged. Stay with it, and the T will work. I know you're in good hands with ftt.

Thanks, Rainbow. I think about that sometimes. Dt would SO not get this or go anywhere NEAR this topic. She would blow it off with a sentence or two...or say to me, "why are you telling me this?"
I really DO believe you are in good hands with kt. Just go with it. Tell her how you are feeling and she will go with that, too.

I also hate when I bring up something important at the end of the session and then it's time to stop. I used to do that all of the time, but it made me feel so, so terrible that I try to bring up the important stuff right away, though I don't always succeed. I hope you feel better soon.

I had a suspicion I was doing it in some way purposely. I really am sure of it now! I thought I had stopped that behavior. I do need to work on really everyday here and now stuff with my kids and family and I need her feedback. She is great that way. And then there isnt enough time for the deeper places I need to go, too. Monday I will start off with the deeper and leave the kids out of my session...that would be a first.....

Originally Posted by bluemoon

You cant imagine how this is for me. It is impossible. I cant do a male God. I just cant. And I cant do a male therapist. I want to, but I just cannot. I so badly want to heal that part of me, but I dont know how. I want to and I feel so horribly stuck. There is no way I could see a male God creating me, believing I am worthy, all that.

blue, i so feel the same on this regarding the male God thing. i did briefly have a male T and proceeded to get erotic transference. oy. i have struggled so much with seeing God as male because of my own father. also, i've been told that how we see God is shaped by both our own parents and what we were taught (or not taught) about God as a child. while i do believe God is beyond gender, or encompasses both the male and female, seeing God as a Father really scares me. i guess for me it's just one more thing to work through.

[BlueMoon6]

Bloom- I feel the same way- seeing God as a Father does not work for me. I wasnt taught anything about God as a child, though. I grew up in a completely secualr home and I was left to my own devices when it came to spirituality and God. There was nothing spiritual about my family. It was a narcissitic house with every man for himself- do what you can to survive kind of thing. I think I felt very very alone in that world. So alone I cant even describe it in words.

Maybe growing up that way, so alone and feeling like I had no one is what mades a loving universe who knows me so comforting. I remember as a child talking to "someone" and crying. I didnt call it God or anything like that. I was hoping someone could hear me and know how I felt.

Bloom- so how do you see God if he cant be a father? I guess whatever the power of the universe is, it doesnt have anything to do with male or female.

(((((((blue)))))))

Originally Posted by BlueMoon6

Bloom- I feel the same way- seeing God as a Father does not work for me. I wasnt taught anything about God as a child, though. I grew up in a completely secualr home and I was left to my own devices when it came to spirituality and God. There was nothing spiritual about my family. It was a narcissitic house with every man for himself- do what you can to survive kind of thing. I think I felt very very alone in that world. So alone I cant even describe it in words.

Maybe growing up that way, so alone and feeling like I had no one is what mades a loving universe who knows me so comforting. I remember as a child talking to "someone" and crying. I didnt call it God or anything like that. I was hoping someone could hear me and know how I felt.

blue, my family was rather similar although my mom was loosely religious. because she never really talked about her faith it was more just "be a good person". i knew there was a God and he wanted me to be good and kind to others. that was about it. the church we occasionally went to was boring as could be and seemed quite irrelevant to anything in life. strangely, i think sometimes there is an advantage to having such emotionally and spiritually deficient families such as ours. i know in my case it did make me search for something more, but at the time i wouldn't say i was searching for God or anything spiritual. i knew i needed something but didn't know at all what that was.

Bloom- so how do you see God if he cant be a father? I guess whatever the power of the universe is, it doesnt have anything to do with male or female.

that's a great question and i've been thinking about it since i read it earlier today. i guess it's not so much that he can't be a father for me but i have a hard time with it. i can't really tell God who God is, ya know. i tend to think God encompasses both the male and female somehow since i am created in God's image. fortunately though, there are a lot of other images or symbols used within my faith. but when i really think about it i don't know what i picture when i think about God. i have to think about it more. i do see God as very big and rather mysterious but also quite involved in the details of my life. i remember one of the guys at my old church and when i'd hear him pray he'd refer to God as his "rock" manytimes. i thought it was interesting because i know "rock" is one of the pictures or symbols used in my faith and while it never really resonated for me it obviously was something that this guy found comfort and meaning in. i know he'd come from a chaotic alcoholic family so he probably really like the stability it evoked and maybe even the sense of a ground of being. that's a little different from saying mother earth though since we tend to distinguish the creation from the great creator. i think the one is a reflection of the other but not the same as it. our poor earth these days is so sick and polluted i personally could not see that as God. if it is she seems to have a bad case of pms with her violent mood swings of late.

i think you are asking great questions blue. keep asking. while we probably will always have way more questions than answers i do believe we find some.

[BlueMoon6]

I love your response to me, Bloom. Maybe it is an advantage to come from a family that was empty spiritually. It leaves room for whatever we might find. I always felt that I have had too many choices in this life and not enough direction. That if at least I had religion or something, Id have something to hold on to. But....that is not necessarily so. I knew I needed something. What that something was I had no idea. I think God appealed to me because at least I had a "witness" to my life and the hard time I having as a child.

When I think about being created in God's image I have been completely confused by that one. I would imagine a God as good and I did not feel good. It was only when I began to read about the openness to one's own experiences in Buddhist books did I really "get" what that might mean. That the essence of the infinite is actually within myself and within my consciousness. But it is not my consciousness as I know it. Whatever is the result of my human mind is only a human mind thinking and this is not the infinite. But when I meditate I sort of understand more through the simplicity of watching my breath. When I think of all of the religions I have been a part of, it makes me believe it was just my longing for a family and a home. I think home and the love of mommy and daddy that I am craving isnt really the ideas of a religion outside of me. Any religion doesnt work for me for very long- maybe a few years, but then I am disappointed. Home is really inside of me and it is my connectedness to all things....and that can be God. I guess. I am disappointed with religion. In the end, it doesnt give me the feeling of home. In some ways it can trigger me. Do this or you are wrong. And each religion has their own ideas of what wrong is. What I can relate to and what is comforting to me is that my breath and my the peace of living as a being connected to heaven above and the earth below has always been with me. I was searching for what i already had. Well, even the peace of feeling that doesnt stay with me. It comes and goes.

I love your response to me, Bloom.

Maybe it is an advantage to come from a family that was empty spiritually. It leaves room for whatever we might find. I always felt that I have had too many choices in this life and not enough direction. That if at least I had religion or something, Id have something to hold on to. But....that is not necessarily so. I knew I needed something. What that something was I had no idea. I think God appealed to me because at least I had a "witness" to my life and the hard time I having as a child.

when i was at my former church that i found as an adult (not the lame childhood church) i met so many wonderful people who had been raised in our faith. i always wished i'd come from one of the families like theirs because they seemed so grounded and peaceful--not all insecure like me. but there was one woman i knew whose family was from the same faith and boy was it screwed up! and while i always liked her she had tons of drama and problems. most of us with lots of problems had come from secular familes. then, on the message board i used to be on before PC there were a whole lot of people who had come from backgrounds like this woman's. yikes! so, i guess like anything else if it's healthy it is great but if it's unhealthy watch out. spiritual abuse is really nasty. but spiritual neglect isn't any better, imo...but of course you can't force spirituality on anyone.

When I think about being created in God's image I have been completely confused by that one. I would imagine a God as good and I did not feel good.

blue, i think the "not feeling good" can be largely a result of our dysfunctional upbringings. i think that core of shame that you and tree and i and so many others feel inside happens because of abuse. i do believe there is a difference between shame and guilt. guilt is legitimate when we've done something we know is wrong like lie, steal, etc. if people do these things and have no sense of guilt about it then i do think that is a problem. but shame is more about our sense of worth. no one should ever have to struggle with feeling worthless or dirty or unloveable. yet many of us do.

It was only when I began to read about the openness to one's own experiences in Buddhist books did I really "get" what that might mean. That the essence of the infinite is actually within myself and within my consciousness. But it is not my consciousness as I know it. Whatever is the result of my human mind is only a human mind thinking and this is not the infinite. But when I meditate I sort of understand more through the simplicity of watching my breath.

you know, at some point i do want to take a comparative religion course. i always think it is good to understand more where others are at even if we are coming from a different place.

When I think of all of the religions I have been a part of, it makes me believe it was just my longing for a family and a home. I think home and the love of mommy and daddy that I am craving isnt really the ideas of a religion outside of me. Any religion doesnt work for me for very long- maybe a few years, but then I am disappointed. Home is really inside of me and it is my connectedness to all things....and that can be God. I guess.

this is really weird that you would say this, blue. after my lame childhood church, where i also had one bad spiritual experience, i didn't go back for years because fortunately my mom said we didn't have to go when we got a bit older. years later i happened to meet a girl in summer school from another town and she was going to be in a dance performance at that church. i mentioned it to my mom since i love dance and we decided to go. so, after not having been at this church for years i ended up having this big spiritual experience when i went to see my friend dance. it's hard to describe but all of a sudden it was like i sensed God's presence very strongly and he spoke to me. i had certainly never had anything like that happen before. i couldn't see anything and the voice wasn't audible but it was unmistakeable. i'm not sure if i remember the exact word but i think they were "this is where you belong". i wished i'd written the exact words down but that was certainly the meaning of what i'd heard. if i hadn't been with my mom who never cries i would have burst out crying. it was a pretty intense experience. now, i knew God wasn't referring to that particular neighborhood church as it was still boring as ever but to his larger church and to Him. i mean, God could have said something totally different that would have been just as meaningful but it's weird that you would mention what you did and that is just what God said to me. honestly, i can't say i was looking for a home or belonging but that is just what happened. shortly after that i did join a church group that one of my friends was involved in. it all sort of happened naturally and i felt almost propelled along. while it certainly hasn't always been an easy journey since then, and i drifted away for many years since i didn't really get rooted in it, i know what i had happen was real. since getting more grounded in my faith i've had many other spiritual experiences. in a way i guess they keep me faithful when it gets rough. there is much more to being spiritual than these experiences but for me they have been important. i'm still waiting for the more important things like the peace, joy and love although like you i get glimpses of them. how our spirituality changes us is of course also a big part of it. if we don't become more whole and loving then i tend to think it's not working. if there isn't real life change, even when happening slowly, then i think what is the point?

anyway, all that to say maybe it just hasn't been the right timing yet for you or you haven't hit upon it yet. don't give up the search girl until you really know you've found what you are seeking. i think what you are seeking is good and true. maybe there are some rocks you haven't looked under yet. there were many people at my old church, the good one, who have similar stories to yours of searching for many years in different religions and spiritualities before finding their spiritual home. i'm not at all big on religion per se and it is certainly fraught with problems, but i know for me i need some sort of community to practice with. i tend to prefer them to be very low key and without too much structure. the way i describe my old church, the good one, is that most of the pastors either surfed or skated. it also felt a lot like a big 12-step meeting.

i tend to think the sense of belonging and home you mentioned, which i later did become aware of desiring, is related to both family and God. the way i view it is that our families, when healthy, are supposed to be pictures of a healthy spiritual relationship with God and our spiritual family. i'm sure i don't totally understand all this and somehow there isn't a clear separation between the natural/physical and the spiritual but that is sort of how i understand it so far.

I am disappointed with religion. In the end, it doesnt give me the feeling of home. In some ways it can trigger me. Do this or you are wrong. And each religion has their own ideas of what wrong is. What I can relate to and what is comforting to me is that my breath and my the peace of living as a being connected to heaven above and the earth below has always been with me. I was searching for what i already had. Well, even the peace of feeling that doesnt stay with me. It comes and goes.

i definitely understand your disappointment with religion. a lot of it is useless at best and toxic at worst. keeping things simple is very important to me as well. i kind of like the simplicity that the quakers have. while my current church isn't quaker it does have some quaker roots which i really like. too many times people get caught up in pointless arguments about religion and come up with all kinds of man-made rules on top of the basic ones. while we obviously can't just do whatever we want in life at the expense of others sometimes either too many rules are added on or too heavy a hand is used. i have visited churches were there is just too much emphasis on what we do wrong and that loads people with undue guilt. for those of us from dysfunctional homes where we were constantly being blamed for just breathing that can do a lot of damage and make us feel wrong for every little thing. i think we do need some direction though so it isn't a total free-for-all. with the multitude of religious and spiritual options available these days it is definitely quite confusing figuring out which end is up and who is talking out of their *****.

much love to you blue.

sorry to crash this thread.. but I just got home from seeing my T and it just hurts so much. I feel so vulnerable and exposed and it's okay when she is there to help make it better and help me understand my feelings, but now I'm all alone and scared and I feel like a little girl

[Thimble]

Originally Posted by ghostoverground

sorry to crash this thread.. but I just got home from seeing my T and it just hurts so much. I feel so vulnerable and exposed and it's okay when she is there to help make it better and help me understand my feelings, but now I'm all alone and scared and I feel like a little girl

How are you doing today ghostoverground? How long do you have to wait until you can see your t again?Thinking about you and hoping things are going better.

And Blue - just checking in with you.

Thimble-- thank you so much. this was a few days ago, I guess because I'm new they had to go through my posts. I'm doing okay. It doesn't go away.

There are so many people here that understand feeling like I "need" my T. I feel less alone and crazy.