[peaches100]

I've had some time to think about it. . .

and I just don't know if I can get past this latest rupture with my t.

maybe it seems like no big deal to some here. . .

but giving your heart over in an email. . .

telling your t how important your therapy is for you, and how much your t means to you. . .

and them saying "I don't have time to reply to this."

It's just . . . wrong.

To me, it's wrong.

I've tried to see it another way. I've been reading people's responses. i understand t's getting busy. And i even understand the "not doing therapy outside the office" policy and the concern over things not being confidential in email.

But to me, riding above all of that is the idea of Basic Human Kindness.

In my heart, i don't think it's right, when somebody expresses some kind of heartfelt attachment feelings, for the other person to fail to respond with "I'm too busy to respond to this."

It is not that hard to say "Thank you for your thoughts." or "I appreciate what you've said."

I don't care how busy a person is. Anybody can take 30 seconds to do that. And if the person chooses not to, then there's a reason for that, and a potential problem.

Can you imagine a friend sending you a card, telling you how special you are to them and how much you love them. . .

and you call them up and say "You know, I don't have time to respond to this."

Or how about if you did something nice for your neighbor, and they sent you a Thank You card. Would you follow it up with "I'm too busy to read this."

Would you think they cared about you at all? Or that you were important to them even in the least bit?

I wouldn't.

And yeah, I know a t isn't a friend or a neighbor. But i still have always wanted and hoped for it to be a real relationship, not just a set-up fake one. I've wanted to believe my t cared when she said she did. At times she has seemed to care and i believed and felt that care.

But now I don't know. This canned, clinical response to my heartfelt sentiments has made me feel like i need to re-evaluate everything.

Maybe i've fooled myself into thinking my t cares more about me than she really does. Now i wonder if the caring stops when the door shuts. Maybe i've told her how much she means to me too many times, so the words are hollow and mean nothing. So that when i'm trying to express my feelings of gratitude and attachment in an email, and wanting her to feel touched in return. . .what really happens is she sees the email and rolls her eyes, while thinking, "Oh brother. Not again!! I don't have time for this!!!"

I keep thinking about somebody's post. . .I'm trying to remember who know. . .but their words are sticking in my mind. . .where they said that t's aren't the same attentive, caring individuals outside our sessions as they are during our sessions. That returning phone calls and emails is just part of the job duties, nothing personal.

Maybe that poster is right. Maybe it's true. Because when my t and I talked about her brief, terse phone message saying she was too busy to respond, i said her tone of voice in her message was kind of cold and clinical. It did not sound warm, or like anything i'd said in my email message had touched her at all. And she admitted that when she called me, she was "completely in business mode." And her voice and tone, it just wasn't the same as it is during that hour. And it makes me wonder if the warmth during the hour is put on.

I dunno. I just feel "yuck." I'm afraid my t just isn't able to care about me as much as i want her to. I'm afraid that by letting myself think that finally, this time, after all my disappointments and rejections in relationships, that THIS TIME, things are different. . .somebody really cares deeply for me as a person. . .maybe it is all a crock.

I'm starting to think my t is just pretending to care about me for a time period to make me feel better about myself and go out and bond with others. But she knows she's only temporary in my life. So she doesn't ever let herself bond or feel attached in return. She just lets me believe that she cares for me more than she does because i've been so empty and broken and need to believe somebody gives a crap. So it's a pity thing.

So i go along in my happy fantasy that we have a "close" relationship. But when something like this email situation comes up, it blows open the fantasy i have that she cares deeply for me as a person. . . any belief that my expressions of attachment to her mean anything more than a burden. . .another email to roll her eyes at and heave a heavy sigh, while thinking, "Oh brother. Not again! I don't have time for this!"

I just feel . . .sick.

All my life, I've just ever wanted someone to love that hurting, vulnerable part of me. . .or at least to know i mean something more to someone than just a dust ball in the corner. . .to think that child part of me could be significant or important in somebody's eyes and not just a big annoyance or burden.

but now i feel that under the surface, with my t, it's just all the same as it's ever been for me since i was a child with my parents. I'm "too much," my emotions are "too much," my needs are "too much." And the worst part of it is i know it's true.

I don't want to get my hopes up anymore that the child part of me will ever mean anything to anyone. All i do is blow up a big balloon of hope, only for it to pop later, and show me that in reality i am invisible and mean nothing.

[Perna]

Originally Posted by peaches100

but giving your heart over in an email. . .

Peaches, is that where you want your heart to be, in an email? Your heart is in you only and stays there. You can talk to your T in person, face-to-face, person-to-person and share yourself but you can't email yourself! They haven't invented email that good yet.

[peaches100]

This is how I imagine it went:

(Me, thinking): I am so grateful for t. She has helped me so much. i feel close to her. i feel like for once in my life somebody really cares (starting to tear up, tears rolling down cheeks). I want her to know how much i appreicate her, how much she means to me.

(Me, emailing most deep personal thoughts and attachment feelings to t)

(T, sees email message): What?! Another email? (Heavy sigh; opens email; briefly scans message)]

(T, reads about my attachment feelings for her and my question about how she feels about me and my therapy. . .)

(T, thinking): This is just more of the same. I don't have time for this.

(T calls, saying she's too busy to respond)

(Me, listens to message that she's too busy to reply)

(Me, thinking): I can't believe it. I just opened my heart to her and she blew me off! Here i am crying because i'm feeling so grateful for her and her help. . .so i email and tell her. . .and it didn't mean a thing to her. She didn't acknowledge a single thing i said. Her voice on the message doesn't even sound warm. It sounds just. . .clinical. No evidence at all of any warm personal feelings.

(Me, feeling a flash of pain through my gut): I'm fooling myself. She doesn't really care that much about me. I should never have told her how i feel about her. now she's backing away. she doesn't want me to be attached to her. and she doesn't want to tell me how she feels about me and our therapy either.

(Me, more thinking; feelings of self-hate cropping up): I was stupid to ever think i meant anything to her. it's all just a big fantasy. i believe it because i "want" to believe it. But the truth is, i mean very little. I'm just her "3'oclock," a number, an appt, not a person." I wish i'd never gotten attached to her in the first place. i knew this would happen. i knew i would just end up getting hurt AGAIN!!"

[Perna]

Peaches, you can't email feelings, only thoughts. Email is just words, two-dimensional. And you are doing T's side of the interaction, she's no more than your ventriloquist dummy. Peaches, you are thinking all these things and then responding to your own thoughts. T isn't in there at all. You can only get T's response when you're with T.

If you weren't so unhappy, I'd find it a little amusing that you listened to T's phone response, did not communicate with her, even then. So, you got to imagine why she called when she did and what she was feeling and that whole scenario too.

There's may be no rupture with T, just with your made-up T.

[Melbadaze]

Peaches, Yes therapy raises all this issues, one can either repeat the past and run or stay and work it out.

[mobius]

I just feel . . .sick.

This feeling seems to really get to the heart of most of what you wrote about. I get that feeling, as I often experience it in relation to some kind of disappointment in my relationship with my therapist. I felt it this weekend when I got an email from my therapist about cancelling some of our upcoming appointments. I felt it when I emailed her last week with some feelings not unlike the ones you describe and didn't hear back for what felt like ages (she didn't respond directly to the feelings either, BTW, but said that she'd like to discuss them in our session this week).

It feels awful. And for me at least, it's the source of a lot of difficult ruminating about what I do and don't mean to my therapist, what she is and isn't feeling, etc. File this under the category of easier said than done, but I *know* deep down that that ruminating is only preventing me from being able to connect with my therapist in the ways that she is offering. I don't think she'll ever be able to offer everything that I want or need. I've yet to really come to terms with that, but I keep trying to figure out what I *can* get from the relationship. But when I feel those sick feelings, all of my well-reasoned ideas fly out the window.

I think I'm trying to come to the conclusion that maybe it can be both: maybe the relationship can be real *and* clinical/businesslike. I know those things sound mutually exclusive, but I can't really believe that my therapist can just turn her caring on and off. I trust myself enough (I think) that I would be able to know if all of her expressions of kindness and caring (direct or not) were manufactured. But I also know (though I'm loathe to *really* admit it to myself sometimes) that at the end of the day, being a therapist is her job. It might also be her calling, but it's how she pays the bills and it's necessary for her to operate from a business mode too.

I don't know, peaches. I hear in your struggles so much of what I'm going through too. I want to be able to reach out and offer a hand, and I hope that what I write doesn't sound disingenuous. It's written from a place of not really knowing, but wanting to try to figure it out anyway.

[geez]

Peaches I can relate to what you have posted on so many levels.

These statements especially jumped out at me:

"with my t, it's just all the same as it's ever been for me since i was a child with my parents. I'm "too much," my emotions are "too much," my needs are "too much."

"I just feel "yuck." I'm afraid my t just isn't able to care about me as much as i want her to. I'm afraid that by letting myself think that finally, this time, after all my disappointments and rejections in relationships, that THIS TIME, things are different. . .somebody really cares deeply for me as a person. . ."

It is a possibility that she was really busy and frazzled hence sending you that somewhat curt reply. I sometimes do this when I'm feeling frazzled and I regret it later

For what it's worth when it comes to email things can get lost in translation (meaning or emotion). Having said that there are also things I read on PC that come across with lots of emotion/meaning and other times .

Many hugs and I hope you can find some resolution to this soon.

Wishing you peace.

[purple_fins]

this must be very difficult for you ugh.......

I so wish you could have a "do over" and would have written all those lovely things down and given it to her face-2-face to read with you sitting right there..... then you would have had her undivided attention. I would bet my life on it that she would have said some very gratifying comments to you.
Some people, I believe, just aren't very good at email. the absence of the physical can seem to cause some to react with distance..... for some reason
I can sure understand your feeling dissed.
but I also understand your T. being in business mode away from the session..... especially with a sister in the hospital... she must have been so worried for her sister.
I wish though your T. would have said in her phone message how she appreciated your sentiments.... but you know what...... I don't think there is a person alive that is perfect... every single person will not meet our expectations all the time..... I imagine now you are thinking-- "but she knows me and she is a professional therapist-- she should have known what I needed"....... perhaps.... but again.... not a human alive is perfect. dissappointments will be part of it.... it's how we overcome/cope with those dissappointments that is the key.

best to you

fins

[rainbow8]

Perna, you must have missed Peaches' other thread She DID talk to her T in session about the email. There was face to face interaction about it. It wasn't made up.

Peaches, I hope you don't mind my clarifying the situation to Perna. I know you weren't quite satisfied with what your T said in your session and you started a thread about it. It's on page 2.

I don't want to get my hopes up anymore that the child part of me will ever mean anything to anyone. All i do is blow up a big balloon of hope, only for it to pop later, and show me that in reality i am invisible and mean nothing.

Your whole post, in my opinion, is black and white thinking. You KNOW you mean something to your T. She has shown it to you through the years.

Because when my t and I talked about her brief, terse phone message saying she was too busy to respond, i said her tone of voice in her message was kind of cold and clinical. It did not sound warm, or like anything i'd said in my email message had touched her at all. And she admitted that when she called me, she was "completely in business mode." And her voice and tone, it just wasn't the same as it is during that hour. And it makes me wonder if the warmth during the hour is put on.

Ts don't "put on" the warmth during the hour. But, yes, the hour is the time they set aside for us, and devote their entire attention to us. I know your T cares about you for more than that hour, but the time outside of therapy IS their time, not ours. No one works 24 hours/day. We don't want to think of our Ts as "working" when they are with us, but they are.
I know your T works very hard with you to give the needy child part what she needs during your session. But the goal, as you know, is for YOU to be able to give that to yourself. T can't be with us 24 hrs. a day.

That said, I do see your point about her response or lack of a warm response. It would have made you feel better if she would have responded the way you wanted her to. Maybe it would have been better therapy to do so, too. But she didn't. I'm sorry she disappointed you in that way. I think it would be beneficial for you to discuss this more with her.

I can relate because when I finally called Bt one morning, very early to say "I think the baby stuff means I love you", she said "I hear you but I have to start my day." I was devastated. But of course we know that Bt said many hurtful things to me. Your T doesn't do that to you. The point is that neither of our Ts was trying to hurt us purposely. Sometimes they have to look out for their own interests before ours. We have to forgive them, just like we should forgive anyone who unintentionally hurts us.

Peaches, I think your hurt feelings are understandable. There's no right or wrong here. I do hope you'll talk more to your T about it.

[seventyeight]

hi peaches, i hope you're doing ok. i had two thoughts:

1) perhaps she didn't want to say anything, because whatever it was - would have fallen short. i know you wanted to hear *some*thing, but in this case (in my opinion) the nothing was better than something. imagine if she (like you wanted her to) did say "thanks for sharing that" or "i'm glad you feel that way." i know if it was me, i'd feel like absolute crap if that's the response i got. i'd be like: THAT'S IT?! and i think this is what may have been going on with her. like she didn't know what to say, so she didn't ruin it by saying something small and somewhat meaningless. instead, she called (and didn't email back, which to me is also an indication of her not wanting to leave a permant mark) and reacted in the most honest way possible. and from what i can tell, she really DID want to wait until she saw you to talk about everything.

2) i'm probably not going to convince you that she cares for you, but perhaps this will:

I kind of forget what happened next. Maybe we talked again about my feelings as a child with my parents. I can’t recall. But somewhere along the way, t asked if she could come sit next to me, and I said Yes. She also asked if she could touch me, and I said Yes. And she gave me little pats on my upper back and said some comforting things I can’t remember now. She also talked about how relationships go through bumps and hurdles, that some of them are insurmountable, but this one isn’t. She said we will get through it together. Then I remember asking something like, “Why can’t relationships only be good all the time?. I don’t know where that question came from, and I started crying harder. I got struck with this huge twist of pain and bent over, saying “This is SO HARD!” Then t was telling me to breathe, and helping me calm back down. And I remember her saying this is the “meat of the work.”

The other thing I remember her saying is that we’ve known each other for a really long time, and t said “This is more than just a job to me, I think a part of you knows that.” And she said how our relationship is real or there, whether we email or not. She said we could take the computer completely out of it, and the relationship would not change.

this is beautiful! i know for one, most therapist do not come close to their clients, much less touch them. she did, and this was the way she chose to express herself to you. i think she most certainly cares about you, and i'd encourage you to re-read how the session went as a reminder of the reality of the situtation, and not what you've built it up in your mind to be.

i hope i'm not being too harsh.. my words come from a caring place.

[Abby]

I agree with Melbadaze. I can hear how much you are hurting and how much you need her to respond in an overtly caring way to explictly show you that she cares rather than it having to be something that is mentioned in passing and 'known'. And i don't think it is bad asking your therapist again and again if she cares, that's probably one of the reasons you are in therapy because perhaps you can't quite believe why anyone would care!

But I guess also the ball is in your court now. How do you want to proceed? You can go over it in your head if you need to but ultimately you are in control of how you respond to your t's response. You could go back to the session and raise the issue again and again until you feel it is on its way to being resolved, or you could go back to session and ignore it and let it sit like a big elephant in the room, or you could go back to sessions and try and forgive and forget her response, or you could tell her that you are too hurt from trying so hard and don't want the pain any longer and quit. Those are some of the possibilities.....

Originally Posted by peaches100

All my life, I've just ever wanted someone to love that hurting, vulnerable part of me. . .or at least to know i mean something more to someone than just a dust ball in the corner. . .to think that child part of me could be significant or important in somebody's eyes and not just a big annoyance or burden.

but now i feel that under the surface, with my t, it's just all the same as it's ever been for me since i was a child with my parents. I'm "too much," my emotions are "too much," my needs are "too much." And the worst part of it is i know it's true.

I don't want to get my hopes up anymore that the child part of me will ever mean anything to anyone. All i do is blow up a big balloon of hope, only for it to pop later, and show me that in reality i am invisible and mean nothing.

I hear how you feel about this. I don't think this issue is something that can be resolved with a few choice lines in an email - even if she'd managed to pick the right ones! I think it will be based on a long term deeper realisation. But on a positive note at least you keep blowing up that big balloon of hope - it takes a pretty strong person to have faith and hope especially when they've had a lot of situations where they have been very badly let down.

(((((((((((((peaches)))))))))))))))

What if it went like this?

Peaches: sends very loving and appreciative e-mail to T
T: reads e-mail, is touched. feels hurried because of her duties with her sister, but knows peaches intimately, and knows that it means a lot that it be acknowledged that an e-mail was sent. Remembers that in the past, peaches had said that "i don't have time to respond right now" would be an okay response, and calls so that peaches won't feel worried or sad.
Peaches: gets T's response and feels sad and confused. bravely brings it up in session
T: reflects back, and realizes that she was in "business mode" when she called. reassures peaches about how much she cares for her, both inside and outside of the office.

What if that is the whole story??

The feelings you are having are real and important, and deserve to be talked about as much as you need to talk about them. What's hard for me to realize sometimes, is that the stories I come up with aren't necessarily true: in fact, they're almost always much more a reflection of my fears than a reflection of reality.

((((((((((((peaches)))))))))))))))) so many hugs to you. I know this is really, really hard.

Originally Posted by peaches100

I've had some time to think about it. . .

and I just don't know if I can get past this latest rupture with my t.

maybe it seems like no big deal to some here. . .

but giving your heart over in an email. . .

telling your t how important your therapy is for you, and how much your t means to you. . .

and them saying "I don't have time to reply to this."

It's just . . . wrong.

To me, it's wrong.

I've tried to see it another way. I've been reading people's responses. i understand t's getting busy. And i even understand the "not doing therapy outside the office" policy and the concern over things not being confidential in email.

But to me, riding above all of that is the idea of Basic Human Kindness.

In my heart, i don't think it's right, when somebody expresses some kind of heartfelt attachment feelings, for the other person to fail to respond with "I'm too busy to respond to this."

(((((((((((peaches)))))))))))))

i also think you your feelings are something to explore further with T. i hear so much pain in your post and i'm so sorry for that. but, i think your pain is distorting what really happened. this is what you said in your other email:

all she did was call and tell me she wasn't going to reply today because she was too busy and she had to pick up her sister from the hospital

peaches, do you think you can notice how you've completely truncated what she originally said down to "i'm too busy to respond to this"? she was too busy to respond to your email at that time. that is just saying hey, my sister is getting out of the hospital and i will respond but i can't right now because i'm dealing with a quite sick family member. she was likely very concerned about her sister and giving her full attention to her as i think she needed to. she was calling to reassure you she would respond when she had a free moment. she wasn't saying she wouldn't respond at all as you seem to now be thinking. what you have remembered her saying is not the whole story of what happened. is it possible you are so scared as to how she will respond that you unconsciously create these ruptures so she doesn't ever get to respond? that is just a guess on my part so if it doesn't fit please disregard it.

i don't think anyone can be there for us in life 24/7 exactly as we would like, but your T is not like your mom who obviously neglected you. when you mentioned awhile back that your T plans on continuing to see you after she retires that to me shows she cares about you so very, very much. that is just a huge thing for any T to do and i think it really shows her true colors. how many other Ts would do that? i'm guessing none or 1 or 2 at the absolute most. i think sometimes we've been so hurt in life that we don't know how to receive love even when it is there. we distort it in our minds to something that is more familiar because it keeps us in control.

we can't control love but we can receive it.

[Sannah]

Peaches, you are running off with this in your mind WITHOUT INVOLVING THE OTHER PERSON INVOLVED IN THE CONVERSATION - YOUR THERAPIST. Remember, you can't work something out with someone else in your head! Stop! If you want to work this out you must include the other person in the conversation or you are just going to go off in your head.

And remember this is about more than just this incident. This also includes all your past with your parents and all of those stuffed feelings that you had while growing up when your mother was in her own world and wasn't giving you the care that you needed and deserved.

[elliemay]

Originally Posted by peaches100

I dunno. I just feel "yuck." I'm afraid my t just isn't able to care about me as much as i want her to. I'm afraid that by letting myself think that finally, this time, after all my disappointments and rejections in relationships, that THIS TIME, things are different. . .somebody really cares deeply for me as a person. . .maybe it is all a crock.

I'm starting to think my t is just pretending to care about me for a time period to make me feel better about myself and go out and bond with others. But she knows she's only temporary in my life. So she doesn't ever let herself bond or feel attached in return. She just lets me believe that she cares for me more than she does because i've been so empty and broken and need to believe somebody gives a crap. So it's a pity thing.

So i go along in my happy fantasy that we have a "close" relationship. But when something like this email situation comes up, it blows open the fantasy i have that she cares deeply for me as a person. . . any belief that my expressions of attachment to her mean anything more than a burden. . .another email to roll her eyes at and heave a heavy sigh, while thinking, "Oh brother. Not again! I don't have time for this!"

I just feel . . .sick.

All my life, I've just ever wanted someone to love that hurting, vulnerable part of me. . .or at least to know i mean something more to someone than just a dust ball in the corner. . .to think that child part of me could be significant or important in somebody's eyes and not just a big annoyance or burden.

but now i feel that under the surface, with my t, it's just all the same as it's ever been for me since i was a child with my parents. I'm "too much," my emotions are "too much," my needs are "too much." And the worst part of it is i know it's true.

I don't want to get my hopes up anymore that the child part of me will ever mean anything to anyone. All i do is blow up a big balloon of hope, only for it to pop later, and show me that in reality i am invisible and mean nothing.

Oh no, I think this is big and I get it. If this is your default setting and you got a glimpse that maybe, just maybe that setting is incorrect, it really hurts when it feels like it's reset back to the original.

Your T's response, though likely well-intended, unintentionally reinforced what you were trying to "unthink".

But I don't think it was with malice of forethought, or with any kind of "oh god, not this again".

I think she simply made a mistake. A simple mistake. It happens.

Out of all of your therapy, is this mistake sufficient to throw the whole thing away? The caring you've felt, the good time you've spent with her, the progress you've made?

I've been in very similar situations with my T and the pain is very very real. Believe me, the desire to run, point the finger at the mistake and say "aHA! see I was right all along! Nobody cares!" is very strong. It's what I was programmed to do.

I chose to stay in the relationship, fight through the rupture with my T, and have come out the other side a lot better for it.

One mistake does not have to derail anything and it doesn't have to undo all the good that has been done.

I think in many ways, the relationship with our Ts is simultaneously completely different, yet exactly the same as other relationships we have in our lives.

Both kinds of relationships are marked with a lot of joy and caring, and a lot of heartache and disappointment.

Sometimes it's about absorbing the hurt, talking about and forgiving the mistakes, and finding ways to avoid them in the future. Well, until the next one comes along.

Your T, in this case, should be responsive, open to how you feel about what happened, and apologetic.

THis doesn't have to be the end, or mean she doesn't care.

Peace to you.

[Lamplighter]

Peaches I’m so sorry you are still reeling from that awful response you got to your email . I’ve read your other thread where you describe how you explained things to your T and have to say I was a bit taken aback by her responses. I get the sense that she is not comfortable about working with your feelings towards her (maybe she doesn’t realize quite how serious it is for you? Maybe she thinks the issue is ‘only’ about responses to emails rather than the deeper levels you are talking about here?)

My first response to your post is to say - talk about it with her, talk and talk and talk and keep bringing it up and keep pushing until you get some sense of resolution. Because I’m going to say upfront that regardless of the boundaries a T might maintain between session time and ‘out of hours’ time, I think your T SHOULD have responded in a positive way to your email, even if just to say thankyou. Her actual response tells me she didn’t hear what you said in your email (for any one of a number of reasons, none of which imply deliberate intent to hurt or even a lack of caring) and that for some reason she still hasn’t heard you even when you’ve tried explaining in session.

I think you do need to keep pursuing this with her, and I’m going to stick my neck out here and say that the thing you need to get to restore your good faith in her is an apology from her. I agree with Elliemay, your T made a mistake (not intentional and not callous and not a sign that she doesn’t care) but that her not accepting responsibility for having made that mistake is what’s spinning you out.

Because when my t and I talked about her brief, terse phone message saying she was too busy to respond, i said her tone of voice in her message was kind of cold and clinical. It did not sound warm, or like anything i'd said in my email message had touched her at all. And she admitted that when she called me, she was "completely in business mode." And her voice and tone, it just wasn't the same as it is during that hour. And it makes me wonder if the warmth during the hour is put on.

Peaches what I’m reading in your words (please correct me if I’m wrong) is that the response from T should have been some sort of indication that she was moved and touched by your feelings for her - not just gratitude or a ‘how nice of you to say that’ (even that would have been better than the response you did get though) - but a much more personal direct response to what you were so bravely telling her about how you feel about her. So that you could get to experience real caring on her part, a sense that she is capable of being touched by you and that her caring is consistent not just confined to paid sessions. It goes much further than simply validating your feelings. I suspect this whole issue is pointing out a fundamental need that is emerging in your therapy. That you’re going through profound doubt about her sincerity in caring for you makes me think that the way forward is to bring all that doubt and fear and pain to the therapy itself - this is not something trivial or that can be set aside easily by understanding her reasons for her response (besides, it’s not down to you to validate her life or her feelings and certainly not at the expense of your own.)

Sorry I seem to be telling you what to do here, I don’t mean to, just want you to know that I relate to closely to how you’re feeling about this that these are the things I’d be telling myself. I hope very much that you don’t run away because of this, but are able to bring your feelings to your T and talk about them openly. (Ha ha yes I’d tell myself that too and still find it hard especially as I’d be feeling pretty angry, on top of all the hurt and rejection and fear and self loathing underneath.) Hug for you Peaches

Torn

[peaches100]

Hi Perna,

[reply to your first post]:

I guess that’s one of my fears: telling her how I feel about her face to face. I’m afraid to do that. I’m afraid to see discomfort or annoyance on her face, or maybe just a look that tells me I’ve said the wrong thing and she doesn’t want me to express feelings of attachment. Or the fear that she will reply with, “Well, therapy is about YOU. It shouldn’t matter how you feel about ME” or “The feelings you have toward me are really about your mother and not me.” I guess I’m afraid to take the risk and see what her reaction is. So it’s easier saying it in an email. It’s still a risk, but not as scary. If I email how I feel, then if she lets me down, I’m over here and she won’t see me get upset or cry. I’ll be kind of protected at a distance.

I think I’m extremely scared of witnessing rejection. Like, it’s hard enough to hear her say in a voice message that she’s too busy to respond. But if I was there face to face, and she said something that was disappointing or felt rejecting, I’d see it in her face and hear it in her voice, and it would be so much more devastating. Does that make sense?

Having said that, though, I know you’re right when you say that you can’t really share yourself fully when you’re not face to face. I know if I told her how I feel about her in session, she wouldn’t say she didn’t have time to reply. But what WOULD she say? It’s the fear of not knowing that keeps me scared.

Sometimes the idea of being rejected feels like a fate worse than death. I’ve suffered it a few times in my life, and the hurt was like being burned straight through to my core. I’m sooooo sooooo scared to feel it again! I don’t want to! I’ll do most anything to keep it from happening again. I don’t want to put myself in any situation that leaves me open to rejection. Yet my attachment to my t does. It makes me vulnerable, and I keep on ducking for cover even when the bombs aren’t dropping. Because I keep thinking I hear the drone of the planes coming from the north. And rejection is the bomb that will tear me to pieces.

[reply to your second post]:

OK. So I hear you saying that I’m playing my role and t’s role. Maybe this is what my t calls “mindreading.” She says I have a problem with this. That I decide what I think she is thinking or feeling but I am often wrong. It is hard for me to realize it if I am wrong. Because I take the things she says and does, and then a story forms around it that seems to make perfect sense to me, to explain why she said or did whatever it was. It all seems to fit perfectly, so I think that MUST be the true story. Because how could I fit the facts all together into a believable story if it was not true?

But then Treehouse took the same facts and made it into a different story. So now I’m thinking. . .”Oh gosh. Well, maybe my story ISN’T right.” But you know, the way I had it figured out made so much sense I thought. It FELT like the true story. It really FELT that way. So it’s hard to convince myself that maybe I’ve fit the pieces together wrong. It’s like I took the pieces of a puzzle and put them together and it made a picture that looked real. But then Tree took the same puzzle pieces and made a different picture that also looked real. But only my picture FELT real. So I tend to believe MY picture. Pretty narcissistic, huh? It’s not that I want to believe my story, because my story means I’m an invisible piece of nothing. But it FEELS true, you know?

Maybe my making up wrong stories comes from my childhood. Feelings were not discussed, problems were not talked through, there was not an openness to sharing internal thoughts and emotions with each other. We were all walking around in our own internal worlds. So if you wanted to know something, like how mom or dad felt about you, or why they did what they did, the only thing you had to go on were clues. Phrases of words, or actions, but no explanation for what they meant. So I always had to try to piece it all together to try to understand what the &(^*^& was going on. When some bad or painful situation would happen, I’d sit and ruminate and analyze about it, trying to figure out what happened and why. Trying to find some reasons that made sense. Because nobody would explain it to me or help me understand. I was just a big bundle of pain and chaotic feelings, knowing things were going very wrong, but without a story that made sense. So I made up the best story I could that made sense to me for why something happened:

(Family pulls out of the driveway and heads toward the highway; they are moving out of state; I’ve just left behind my cat, my best friend, and a favorite teacher; I’m sobbing in the back seat)

(Dad): Cut that *^*&^ out or I’ll give you something to cry about.

(Me): Feel a stab of pain go through my heart, combined with anxious fear.
Thinking, “Oh no! Dad yelled at me. He must be mad at me. If he’s mad at me, I must have done something wrong. I don’t know what I did that was bad. But he is always yelling at me, so I must always be bad. What is wrong with me? Why am I so bad? My dad probably hates me. I hate myself.”

And that’s how the stories happened in my head. And I believed the stories. Because nobody else was giving me any other stories to explain things.

And that’s how the stories happen today too, whenever somebody says or does something that hurt me that i do not understand and that they do not explain the reason for. I have to figure it out for myself. Because I need to put all the random pieces somewhere to make a picture I can understand. Otherwise there is nothing I can see or feel or know or hang onto. Otherwise, everything is hanging in mid-air and the world does not make sense. Things are all random and relative, and I can’t find the meaning. And that’s a scary, scary, unsafe place for me to be!!!

[peaches100]

Originally Posted by Melbadaze

Peaches, Yes therapy raises all this issues, one can either repeat the past and run or stay and work it out.

Hi Melbadaze,

I Do want to work it out. But it just seems like. . .regardless of my t's good intentions not to repeat the rejection that i felt in childhood . . . she says or does things every so often that feel every bit rejecting. . .and almost exactly like a repeat of my childhood.

Like my t being too busy for me, and my mom was too busy for me.

Like my mom didn't seem to want to attach with me, and my t was reluctant to respond to my expressions of attachment.

Some of it feels exactly the same.

Sometimes, my t says, "This is 2010, it is not the past, and i am not your mom who you felt rejected by." i get that. But on theother hand, why does it feel the same then?

If our t speaks/acts the same way as mom, which makes us feel the same pain, then we are upset/hurt by t, in the "here and now," in 2010, about what just happened in 2010. So it is not always a matter of us just reacting in transference to what happened in the past. In other words, if our t wants us to see her differently than mom, and learn to trust in a new kind of relationship, then she needs to be careful not to speak/act like mom did. If she does, then we are going to be hurt and lost trust all over again.

Now, i am not saying my t is all bad, or even that she is bad. I love her and think the world of her as my t. But goshdarnit, STOP DOING THAT TO ME when you know it bothers/triggers/hurts me. You know? I realize that my emails might get excessive sometimes. i know it probably annoys you at times. but understand why i need to email you, why i need to express my feelings to you. and try to accept it graciously. please don't make me feel like my words mean nothing. don't let my feelings vanish into thin air like they are worthless. at least take 30 seconds to acknowledge them. because you know how it makes my heart cry when you don't.

i know i'm not seeing t's side of it right now, about her business and her sister, etc. i know i'm focusing on my own self and feelings and needs. but i guess it's the hurt child part of me talking. not the logical adult.

[Melbadaze]

Peaches, perhaps you need to find another T? I dunno, who knows but you and T, I can only relate your experience to my therapy and in my therapy experience I know theres real caring and understanding there, it is wrong of me to tell you that you are wrong and your therapist is right, perhaps shes got to much baggage and you could find another that is able to support you. I can see your hurting, and I'm sorry your T doesn't seem to be able to help you with that.

[peaches100]

Melbadaze,

I don't want to change t's! And i know that she probably does care because she's done things in the past to really make me feel that she does care. Very nice things!

But then there's those times when she says or does something that seems uncharacteristic of her. . .that ends up being like a repetition of my old traumatic stuff. Is that normal to happen in therapy??

[Melbadaze]

Peaches, I think you;ve just resolved your own issue with your original post with this reply. Yes our confusion and the repetition we experience is normal.

[peaches100]

Originally Posted by mobius

This feeling seems to really get to the heart of most of what you wrote about. I get that feeling, as I often experience it in relation to some kind of disappointment in my relationship with my therapist. I felt it this weekend when I got an email from my therapist about cancelling some of our upcoming appointments. I felt it when I emailed her last week with some feelings not unlike the ones you describe and didn't hear back for what felt like ages (she didn't respond directly to the feelings either, BTW, but said that she'd like to discuss them in our session this week).

It feels awful. And for me at least, it's the source of a lot of difficult ruminating about what I do and don't mean to my therapist, what she is and isn't feeling, etc. File this under the category of easier said than done, but I *know* deep down that that ruminating is only preventing me from being able to connect with my therapist in the ways that she is offering. I don't think she'll ever be able to offer everything that I want or need. I've yet to really come to terms with that, but I keep trying to figure out what I *can* get from the relationship. But when I feel those sick feelings, all of my well-reasoned ideas fly out the window.

I think I'm trying to come to the conclusion that maybe it can be both: maybe the relationship can be real *and* clinical/businesslike. I know those things sound mutually exclusive, but I can't really believe that my therapist can just turn her caring on and off. I trust myself enough (I think) that I would be able to know if all of her expressions of kindness and caring (direct or not) were manufactured. But I also know (though I'm loathe to *really* admit it to myself sometimes) that at the end of the day, being a therapist is her job. It might also be her calling, but it's how she pays the bills and it's necessary for her to operate from a business mode too.

I don't know, peaches. I hear in your struggles so much of what I'm going through too. I want to be able to reach out and offer a hand, and I hope that what I write doesn't sound disingenuous. It's written from a place of not really knowing, but wanting to try to figure it out anyway.

\

Hi Mobius,

I really relate to what you wrote here:

I *know* deep down that that ruminating is only preventing me from being able to connect with my therapist in the ways that she is offering. I don't think she'll ever be able to offer everything that I want or need. I've yet to really come to terms with that, but I keep trying to figure out what I *can* get from the relationship. But when I feel those sick feelings, all of my well-reasoned ideas fly out the window.

I am not sure if, like you, the ruminating is preventing me from connecting. . .perhaps the opportunity to connect has been there all along, but i can't grasp hold of the good, safe feelings because I'm too hypervigilant looking for signs of rejection. . .??? and then i pounce on them???

I can also see what you're saying about the relationship being able to be real and also clinical -- in other words, not totally black and white. I'm an "either or" thinker and often forget there can be a gray area! I do appreciate it when people point that out! I fall into that mindset where i think its "either my t cares" "or she does not" -- either the relationship is personally caring or clinical. And then i go back and forth believing the relationship is one way or the other, depending on how my t is acting or speaking at the time. I really need help keeping the idea of "grayness" in my mind.

Otherwise it's like:

(t) responds reassuringly.
(me) she cares!
(t) provides support
(me) she really cares!
(t) is too busy to respond
(me) Oh crap! SEE?! I knew she never cared in the first place!!!

When i write it out, i can see where it seems flawed. . .but i can't seem to see it logically when it is happening.

[peaches100]

The one thing i have not resolved though is my belief that there was more going on under the surface with t than just being too busy to respond (though that was probably the main issue). Because she didn't take that 30 seconds to respond to my sentiments in any way at all, my hunch is that she had some discomfort about what i said. at least i experienced it as a backing off. . .perhaps a deliberate but unconscious attempt to discourage what she may have thought was my overattachment.

She did admit when we talked about it in session that perhaps i had picked up on some part of her that was avoiding feelings. . .

Originally Posted by peaches100

my hunch is that she had some discomfort about what i said. at least i experienced it as a backing off. . .

I often attribute *my* feelings to *T*

During our rupture of last summer, I was SURE T was pulling away. I've never felt more sure of anything. We were in the beginning of the awfulness of telling the CSA story and he was going on lots of breaks, and it was a big pile of YUCK. Of course T would be pulling away - I was telling this awful stuff, it was "too much", T had other things (other clients, his vacations, etc) to attend to. It felt SO TRUE.

Finally, at the end of the summer, T said "what would you gain by pulling away from ME?" and a lightbulb totally went on. *I* was pulling away, not him.

That's not the first (or last) time that has happened in my therapy. My fears are SO big that I can't believe that there could be any other reality that whatever it is that I'm afraid of.

Your post reminded me of that, peaches. Perhaps *you* were uncomfortable with what you expressed?

As for T mulling over whether she had issues with the big emotions - I think that is just a sign of a good T. she didn't say "oh NO that couldn't be true!" - she was willing to pause and look at herself to see if it felt true. my T does that and I appreciate it, because it feels very honest and authentic.

((((((((peaches)))))))))))

[purple_fins]

Oh my gosh! I can see now what is meant by "all or nothing" thinking.

hope you don't mind peaches, but in this here:

(t) responds reassuringly.
(me) she cares!
(t) provides support
(me) she really cares!
(t) is too busy to respond
(me) Oh crap! SEE?! I knew she never cared in the first place!!!

something has to happen EVERY time or else it's all null and void. (all or nothing.... wow that is quite a feat for others to fullfill for us!) The person doesn't see the inbetween.... it's a thought distortion. (I do this sometimes too, I think I'm getting better at realizing it)

a simplified idea ---It's like seeing a recliner chair that is blue and so one believes recliners=blue..... if a red one appears then it can't be a recliner-- because it's not blue.
.... like anticipating bad from people,(people = hurt) then they are nice, then they are not nice-- the person is therefore not nice.... because that is what is in ones mind. (people = hurt)..... it doesn't matter how nice they were before.... that person is not nice.
the mind is searching for that hurt.....and so will work hard on interpreting hurt when/wherever it can-- so it can be right.

that which one seeks- shall be found.

I hope I've not offended..... this is not the intention....
I just can see so clear how the "all or nothing" thinking is in this example you gave. and thought I'd mentioned it in case it could help you and/or others....plus myself

best to you

fins