About my email from T

Rainbow, I'm sorry for what you're going through. I don't feel like I can add much but for what it's worth, I think you should have posted on here...it IS a place to get help, feedback, advice and attention for what you want to throw out there, that is what it is hear for. I have read what you have been posting about your email situation and although I don't think a T should be wishy-washy when it comes to boundries, I don't necessarily think that is what your T is doing...I think she is simply trying to figure out what is a helpful and healthy relationship for the two of you...it just may take trying a few different things. I don't think you manipulated your T...you did exactly what she told you you could do and she chose how to respond accordingly...and now you are more aware of your expectations and disapointments.

I sincerely hope you and your T can come to a mutual understanding of what you both want for the email situation and you start to feel better soon. Hugs

first things firstbig bunches of attention weather you want it or no,you definately deserve itt.i dont know if you were tying to manipulate or not (I hate that word)it has so many demons attached to it.i think children learn at a very young age to manipulate there parents.i isnt always a bad thing.my son can still manipulate me to get a responce out if .it doesnt mean i;m not aware of it and choose my responces accordingly.RAIN i to worry about how you will feel if your T decides to give you a tin can responce to your next e mail or maybe one down the road but i think you and your T have the kind of relationship that you will both work it out.

I don't see how those who feel this way know what is going to happen in the long run...

granite, aww, you're so sweet. Thank you and bunches of hugs.

I don't know how to answer the rest of you. I feel like I'm in the middle of an intense session and I can't cope. I just want to say my T has been aware of the high probability that I would attach to her from Day 1. This attachment is different from anything I've ever experienced, and she thinks it is healing for me. She has never deviated from the goal of getting me to care for my SELF, and not have her be so important to me. We are in the middle of working on why I want the good feelings/love from her, and how to hold onto the feelings I do get from her. We are working with EMDR to get me unstuck from the "not good" feelings from my past.

The email situation is important and seems to be about how I cope with my needs being met or not being met, and with disappointment. If I am manipulating my T, it's the same as I did with my former T, about phone calls. She called it manipulation; I called it "getting my needs met." My current T will probably say to accept the part that needs/wants the attention from her, to be curious about it, and not punish myself for having those needs. to everyone for your honesty even though it makes me cry.

Hi Rainbow --

Sorry I'm late to this thread -- but, for what it's worth, I don't think you were 'manipulating' your T. I agree that you and she set some boundaries, tried them, discussed them, and decided to change them. I followed the threads -- it sounds like both of you were having an honest discussion about your emails. I think your T sounds great -- she sounds like she's a warm and caring person, and a skillful and dedicated therapist. She sounds like she does enjoy you. And, I really like it that she seem like she's really committed to being a genuine person with you. I like it that she's so honest, even (especially) about her own uncertainties. (And, also, forgive me if this is too personal, you have seemed much more relaxed since you been working with her.)

I think boundaries need to be clear, and discussed. But I don't think they need to be written in stone. Situations can change. Boundaries can be found to be unhelpful. Flexibility is important -- Rigidity for the sake of rigidity is no help at all -- even kind of pathological. (Remember that rigidity -- the lack of ability to adjust to changing situations -- is a characteristic of personality disorders!!)

So I guess Rainbow that I'm disagreeing with most of the posters on this thread. My take on this is that you should continue to trust your T's judgment, since she's helped you so much so far. Remember that this is only a message board, and that the folks who are criticizing your T's behavior don't know enough about the situation to criticize her with any kind of plausibility whatsoever.

Take care,
-Far

Rainbow, I totally agree that you do not need to punish yourself for having any type of need whatsoever. You are not 'bad'. Nothing you are doing is 'bad'.
'Manipulation' has such a negative connotation to it, but manipulation is something all of us do everyday, in most encounters with others - it is NOT a 'bad' thing in itself, although it can be used badly in certain circumstances. I wish there were a less negatively charged word to use to describe how we adapt our actions, words and behaviours to achieve desired outcomes, whether that be consciously or unconsciously.
I wonder if it feels like we are all 'attacking' your T to you? I can't speak for others, but I can tell you I am not. I do think she made a mistake in this circumstance, but one mistake does not make her a bad T. On the whole I think she does a great job of working with you and helping you explore your issues.
Take a deep breath and give yourself a hug, hun. You're doing good work.

You said better here what I tried to say earlier in this thread about manipulation being something that we all use in some form in most of our relationships, that it's not necessarily a deviant or disordered thing. But it surely does have a negative connotation....and it is a word that sure gets my hackles up! (since there was a counselor in college who saw me 3 times and told me I was manipulative....I've hated the word ever since....)
I wish there was a better word, too.

Rainbow, I understand how many T's (and clients and maybe posters on PC ) may look at situations with a healthy level of skepticism, however, in this case I agree with Far. IMO, this is the PERFECT opportunity for you and your T to have the opportunity to decide what this means for both of you, own each part (if applies) and move forward.

Be gentle with you.

(((((Rainbow))))) I read the responses here with some confusion. I can't say I can easily jump into one or the other of the camps. In general, I don't like rigidity, so I like that your T responded with an extra sentence--I like flexibility. But some people who posted write with confidence and expert affect that this is not a good thing in therapy for people with BPD. I really don't know. If I'm feeling confused, perhaps you are too. Reading the diverse responses reminds me of "opening up a can of worms." That can be difficult to manage.

For example, this statement confuses me as I thought attachment (secure) in therapy was a good thing.

This sounds like healthy progress to me.

I think this is deeply honest--I am always impressed so much with your honesty and ability to just tell us.

That sounds very positive.

Rainbow, to me it sounds like you think that 1) there is a lot of positive to your therapy and 2) that you are making progress. I hope you can stick to those positive cognitions and if you have doubts about their veracity, check them with your T at your next session. I think you caused difficulty for yourself today by posting and reading responses at odds with your positive cognitions, and now you are feeling negatively about yourself again. If you feel you are making progress in therapy, and your T does too, could that be enough? Could asking these questions of the board be counterproductive? I don't want to seem like I'm discouraging you from posting, or discouraging people from expressing their opinions on your questions, because anyone here is of course welcome to post as often as they want. So I hope you and others won't misunderstand my comment. I guess questions to ask yourself might be: was it helpful to you to post here today? Did you come to new insights? Learn something helpful?

I know I'm pretty different from you (as you've told me!), but what I would do about the email situation is do a little experiment: try not emailing your T for a week or two and see how you do. It wouldn't be forever or an immutable rule, but just a little experiment. If you feel the need to write to her, you could try journaling (rather than necessarily posting here). That could help break the link between expressing yourself in writing and getting attention (from both T and people here). I think it could be empowering to not write to your T for a week or two and see that yes you can manage and that your well-being is not linked to whether you write to her or not. Then when you go to therapy, you can let the parts that need attention get it from your T to their heart's content. It will feel great! I really do think you could do it! I think it would be important to not view this as punishing yourself, though, but just doing an experiment....

What I meant is not very clear, is it? I didn't explain myself very well. I very much believe that attachment in T is a good thing, and I was in no way trying to say that it wasn't. What I was pointing out was the self-deception - Rainbow repeatedly told us with words that she didn't want to attach to this T, but her actions and behaviours told a different story. She very much wanted it all along.

((((((((((((((((rainbow))))))))))))))))))

just wanted to give you some hugs as it seems your thread got pretty crazy. i honestly don't know what to think of what people have said.

just stepping in with my tired self to give more hugs.rain things will be ok.

Does anyone ever read the links that are provided?

The "manipulation" is not conscious. Rainbow is not sitting there saying I am going
to manipulate my T into doing what I want. Then when my T gets overwhelmed and
sets new boundaries I will get upset, frustrated, sad, angry, etc.

It happens because it is a pattern of borderline behavior, just as your intense attachement
to your T is a pattern. Then when she does something that you don't like, you post
or send her an email telling her that she hurt your feelings, doesn't like you, etc.

These are patterns of behaviors. And you refuse to look at them.

You also are not wanting the SELF to lead if you want to focus on IFS because you keep looking for your T, to fulfill that need. You even keep telling her, you don't want to help the parts, but you want her to do it.

The thing is that you don't even try to focus on the behavioral patterns, you just want your needs met.

If you want to be in therapy for along time, that is your business, but I think you are fooling people in thinking that you want to solve the problem, because you don't look at the behaviors, just "what I want, what I need, etc"

For example: 'I want to attach to my T and it is ok.. my child parts needs that." As opposed to asking yourself why your SELF does not want to soothe and comfort your child parts and fight the "wanting" so that you can do what is needed to get healed...after 11 months.

But it would be the same as the fact that you avoid therapy types that are scientifically proven to help heal BPD or BPD behaviors -- ie. DBT, Schema, TFT.

IFS is not..neither is EMDR.
EMDR is great for PTSD and those with flashbacks, avoidance symptoms, hypervigillance, etc.


shalom.

All right Poet. That is enough. You seem to get incredibly put off by Rainbow and her therapy. I am curious as to why you never disclose anything about yourself or your own therapy but on the other hand are very quick to critique and make accusing statements such as You don't....... You refuse.....

I read your links and the first is one by AJ Mahari who does not have any education or credentials psychotherapy. Anyone can post an article online, I could write about the delusion of a schizophrenic, it doesn't make it the gospel word. The third is a definition that has the word borderline in the description. There are many different ways one can take the word manipulation. Everyone manipulates and manipulation is not a bad thing. How do you think t's get people to change? Yep that's right manipulate. I am wondering why you have so much information on borderline personality disorder? Of course you are not going to share because that is not what you do on here. I am curious to what the pay out is for you to be here making such bold and argumentive statements? One thing I learned in therapy right away is that if you want someone to listen to you use "I feel" statements. Just a tip.

LOL

She asked for comments. In fact, she got upset when no one commented. Why do you feel the need to argue with me?
None of my comments were directed at you.

As far as that reference...it is easy to read and understand and guess what, she has credentials and is also a Borderline. Who better to write about their experiences and what worked. If I were to put the scientific studies and literature, no-one would look at them.

Why do I have so much information about BPD....hmm... I seem to know alot about disorders and treatments, don't I?

Anything else?

And Kacey, perhaps you should focus on your treatment instead of attacking me when I was not involved in a discussion with you. I FEEL that might work out better, especially when things are not directed at you.

I can see that you've deleted it now, but you wrote that you 'work in the field'. May I ask in what capacity?

Edited to add: When I read that I quickly browsed through some of your other posts as I was fairly sure you have posted before that you are only 19. When I came back to this thread I saw you had deleted your comment.

Yup. I am 19.
Yup. I work in the field.
If you want more detail, you can ask me privately.

May I ask again in what capacity?

Ok Poet lets go back to your message to Rainbow about unconscious manipulation. Do you ever wonder if you could possibly unconsciously be manipulating PC so you get people to argue with you????????

Perhaps you should focus on your treatment as opposed to ripping
Rainbows to shreds! Or let me guess you have it all under control?

You were not involved in a discussion with me but you are also not having a private caring discussion with Rainbow either. This is a forum if you are going to blast off over and over again about borderlines and specificly Rainbow's individual therapy you will get responses from other people. If you want to have a constructive discussion with out others input you could pm her. I highly doubt she would want to though.

She asked for comments. She complained when no-one commented. I commented on some very common behavioral patterns.

I am not unconsciously doing anything, because the fact is that instead of wanting to help a person "heal" you are supporting behavior that is in fact, doing the opposite. And you don't see it.

Now when her T puts another boundary in place, or the next email is not what she wants, there will be another post here about how she is so upset, rejected, let down, etc.

They are behavioral patterns that can be helped if addressed and looked at.

No I did not support the email post. Nor did I encourage her or disuade her. I heard her. I listened to her. What I am guessing that I am seeing and you might not be is the acusitory tone you set in you responses to her. Supporting a certain behavior may indeed not be helpful and saying it in an offensive, crass way is also pretty ineffective.

Why is it not ok for Rainbow to post about being hurt and rejected and let down about t? Can't we just let her t do the analyzing of Rainbow's behavioral patterns? We are certainly not privy to her treatment plan. And Rainbow doesn't pay us! ***couldn't find the smartars emoticon.

Poet, my turn to sigh. You may be very intelligent and in the field, whatever that means, but you are still only 19. I doubt that you have a degree yet. I choose to trust my T over your advice to me. She encourages me to accept all my parts. I don't need to tell you about IFS, lol. If I need love from my T right now, then that's okay with her. I asked her if IFS and EMDR were contraindicated for BPD and she said "no". I am looking at my behaviors--plenty. She thinks EMDR will help more than IFS, but please don't tell me how it's not for borderlines. Oh, maybe you did already. WE--T and I, are working on helping my Self.

So what if I post again about being upset with my T. It's par for the course around here to be upset with one's T at times. Are you jealous?

Oh, I don't really want to have to defend my T to you anymore. If you are in the field, why doesn't anyone recommend a decent T to you? You've said you can't find one you like. Good luck!

Poet, hopefully as you gain in maturity and progress in your 'field' you will learn less combative strategies for bringing such issues to others' attention.

Ahhh, Rainbow, I may not agree with some things you say and do and I may even upset you myself with some of the things I write at times, but one thing I utterly adore about you is the way you thank each and every poster for their feedback and respond with openness and respect, no matter what.
You are such a kind and gentle person.

How is this combative regarding Rainbow?

She asked what people thought about her T breaking "a rule." I responded highlighting behavioral patterns that common place.

Why is it because I don't agree with what Rainbow wants to hear that I am combative? Why by pointing out patterns that are replayed over and over again here on PC am I combative?

And yes, I do have a degree.
And there are times when confrontation and directive response is needed with people.

And Rainbow, why don't you read about EMDR and IFS, especially at the studies about EMDR. Look at the studies from the VA. Look at the theory behind the eye movement and its role in healing of trauma -- and the reactions from trauma.

Read the randomized controlled trials that were done, which is a gold standard for research studies, and learn what EMDR was successfully used for.

If everyone looked over these postings in this forum, the patterns are there. Steps to getting better is to recognize what one is doing.