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Old Jun 04, 2011, 01:54 PM
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I know I haven't been around much lately. I try not to think too much about therapy lately generally speaking, so PC is a place I check in only once in a while. But I hope it is okay that today I need to reach out.

On Thursday my T and I had a really intense session where I decided to talk about my difficulty in relationships/attachment, mainly that I always have to have a "person" that I get REALLY intense and obsessive about, and this person becomes my entire world, and I'm not sure how to break free of that pattern.

I don't remember most of the session, but I remember two main things which keep repeating in my head. First, I am moving soon to go to grad school, and my T said she would consider therapy to be a "bare minimum" expense for me, and that we need to find a T in the city where I will be moving that I can start to see as soon as I get there. Bare minimum?? Really??? Finances are a serious issue for me right now and I wasn't considering therapy on my list of necessities. Am I really that f***ed up??

Second, I remember talking about how I felt about my old T, and what I got out of our relationship back then, and while we were talking I was just sobbing and sobbing, and then at the end of session I just went totally numb, I guess so I could get through my day.

But the numbness didn't go away. For days I haven't been able to get anything done. I am really struggling. I can't seem to take care of myself right now because I keep getting stuck in my thoughts and it makes it so I can't think of what to do next, and I just pace and pace and pace in my apartment. I am barely eating because I can't figure out how to make food. I mean, I can't seem to put the steps together. I couldn't get out of bed until 1pm today. I feel totally paralyzed. My head just keeps saying "bare minimum, bare minimum, bare minimum" over and over again and I keep having weird feelings which I guess are like depersonalization (my hands look weird, my body is rubber). Every once in a while there is a little "crack" in my thoughts where I am able to escape and remember to brush my teeth or make a phone call or whatever, but then the tidal wave of my stuck-thoughts comes back as soon as I am done with whatever task I was trying to do.

I know this is really long but, I have some work I need to get done this weekend, and I don't know what to do because I keep losing myself. It really sucks because it just confirms what she was saying about T being a basic necessity for me. I don't even know what anyone could tell me about how to get out of the stuck place right now but like, even the most basic things might be helpful since I can't seem to remember any skills to use, and T is not available on the weekend. The only thing I could think of to do was to ask for help.
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  #2  
Old Jun 04, 2011, 02:16 PM
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(((jexa)))

I don't think it means you are unwell to a humongous degree. She just thinks that for now, so your relationships will be healthy, and so you can work through your previous therapist needing to move without much notice, and possibly for support for when you move and begin this new chapter of your life, that therapy is something you need - as much as any other basic expense and need such as shelter and food.

I view my own therapy that way. I have no trouble functioning fully, but therapy is a basic need for me right now. It can feel luxurious, but it isn't a luxury, it is as needed as the air I breathe. It is not easy, as I pay the whole fee out of pocket, but I budget for it just like I do utilities and rent.

Could you see this as a wish for you to feel your best and for your future success and happiness instead?
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jexa
  #3  
Old Jun 04, 2011, 02:42 PM
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(((((((Jexa)))))))))

I am sorry you are in so much pain. I don't really have any words of wisdom but it sounds like you may be disassociating?? and on this forum there is a list of things to do to stay grounded. I have never experienced it but maybe this will help you.
I think you may have misinterpreted what your T meant. Going to grad school, moving, getting a new T........this is a lot of change at once. And your T knows you better than most people. I think she thinks that therapy will help you adjust to the change and not that you are all messed up. A lot of people go into therapy because a major life event triggers unresolved pain that they have been dealing with for years. Moving to a new place, grad school, getting a new t, any one of these on its own could "potentially" send someone to therapy and you are doing all 3 at the same time. I am dealing with transitioning to a new T right now and it is about sending me over the edge with what I can handle. I cannot imagine just stopping midway right now. So I think that's maybe what she meant???? I would also suggest you call her as soon as she is available and make another appt. with her right away to clarify what is happening to you, what to do about it, and what she meant.
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jexa
  #4  
Old Jun 04, 2011, 05:23 PM
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Hi Jexa,

I think the reason you may still feel so numb is that the session has worried and upset you to a point of feeling very low and a depression like feeling is engulfing you, making everyday tasks very difficult. It's possibily not only to do with the bare minimum comment but possibily your fear of loosing your current therapist?

I don't think that your Therapist meant that therapy is a bare minimum for you because you are extremely disturbed, I think she probably knows how much you benefit from the support and that you do need that person to help you work through things and that instead of seeing therapy as an unnesscary expense, that you should consider it a bare minimum requirement as it helps you cope with live at the moment.

is this possible?

(hugs)
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jexa
  #5  
Old Jun 04, 2011, 05:38 PM
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I can relate to the sympyoms you describe - I am trying to study and find it reallly hard to concentrate when I am feeling like that - well not hard, impossible! It happened recently in a session with my T. So my T asked me to concentrate on an object for 10 -20 seconds, then concentrate on my breathing fro 10 - 20 seconds, then concentrate on the object, then concentrate on my breathing - we did this for just about the whole session and it did stop the spinning and numbness in my head. It is a really horrible feeling isn't it and really annoying when oyu can't break out of it to do other things. Good luck, stick with it.
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  #6  
Old Jun 04, 2011, 05:48 PM
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(((((((jexa))))))

Can you get out of your house? I find it really really easy to spiral inside of my head when I am trapped in my four walls sometimes. As hard as it is, sometimes connecting with someone else (meeting a friend for coffee or whatever) or with the big outside (sitting in a park reading?) helps me get out of my head enough to bring me back to Now.

I don't think "bare minimum" means "because you are so messed up". It probably means you are working on hard things, you are starting over in a new place, and you deserve support. When I think about therapy, I think it is a "bare minimum" for me because I know it gives me a place to safely deal with my past and having that place helps me be more present the rest of the week to be there for my boys and my H and my friends.

I'm glad you reached out. Just reaching out is a really good step. What will you do next?
Thanks for this!
jexa
  #7  
Old Jun 04, 2011, 06:15 PM
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I get stuck in my head like that sometimes. It's so annoying. I've literally walked into posts, almost missed flights, or stayed in bed until 7 pm before, because I could NOT shut my brain off. Now that's crazy! Or maybe not... I dunno... But sometimes something really intense is going on inside and you just need time and a place to talk about it and figure out what it is. I would actually agree that therapy is a legitimate need, and that one doesn't necessarily deserve to be paralyzed with guilt for having to have it...
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jexa
  #8  
Old Jun 04, 2011, 06:22 PM
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(((((((((Jexa)))))))))
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  #9  
Old Jun 04, 2011, 07:56 PM
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Thank you guys for reframing what she might have meant. I did talk with her about what she meant, she said it is like if someone is learning how to do research projects on their own, they need a lot of guidance and support at first, until they have more confidence and can do it on their own. But to me that just sounded like, "jexa is an incompetent adult" since most people don't need therapy to function in everyday life.

But I guess since I plan to be a T one day, and I am not exactly as well as a T should be, therapy should be a priority. Affording it, though, is going to be a struggle

Thanks for the suggestions to focus on my breathing and to get outside. I tried to focus on my breath and I could do it for a few seconds and then when I closed my eyes it felt like the world was expanding into endless, endless black space.. and I totally freaked.. but then I went on a long walk outside and I kind of feel sort of ok though I can't seem to get any work done on the writing assignment I was trying to do. Oh well. I also listened to some music and started crying on my walk because the song was "Home" by Ed Sharpe and the Magnetic Zeroes, and it goes: "Ah, home, let me come home. Home is wherever I'm with you." Which made me cry because, I don't think I've ever felt that way, and I don't think I ever will. I can't trust anyone.

I also got kind of manic and went ahead and found a T that will be covered by my student insurance (who is a trauma specialist) and wrote her an email, even though I won't be in the area until August. I will probably just look anxious to her I guess, the fact that I contacted her so soon. But I feel kind of better -- it's kind of an instant resolution to the issue my T and I talked about, so I don't have to sit in the in-between place of "Will I, or won't I, continue therapy?"

Thoughts are really disjointed still.. I hope I can pull myself together soon.
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  #10  
Old Jun 04, 2011, 07:59 PM
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August isn't that far away! I think it's great that you contacted her.

I contacted my T for the first time in August and didn't start therapy until November. I bet it's not that uncommon.

You are doing a good job, jexa. You are trying different things (breathing, walking), you are looking ahead and making a plan, you are posting to us.
Thanks for this!
jexa, Oceanwave
  #11  
Old Jun 04, 2011, 08:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jexa View Post
Thank you guys for reframing what she might have meant. I did talk with her about what she meant, she said it is like if someone is learning how to do research projects on their own, they need a lot of guidance and support at first, until they have more confidence and can do it on their own. But to me that just sounded like, "jexa is an incompetent adult" since most people don't need therapy to function in everyday life.

But I guess since I plan to be a T one day, and I am not exactly as well as a T should be, therapy should be a priority. Affording it, though, is going to be a struggle

Thanks for the suggestions to focus on my breathing and to get outside. I tried to focus on my breath and I could do it for a few seconds and then when I closed my eyes it felt like the world was expanding into endless, endless black space.. but then I went on a long walk outside and I kind of feel sort of ok though I can't seem to get any work done on the writing assignment I was trying to do. Oh well.

I also got kind of manic and went ahead and found a T that will be covered by my student insurance (who is a trauma specialist) and wrote her an email, even though I won't be in the area until August. I will probably just look anxious to her I guess, the fact that I contacted her so soon. But I feel kind of better -- it's kind of an instant resolution to the issue my T and I talked about, so I don't have to sit in the in-between place of "Will I, or won't I, continue therapy?"

Thoughts are really disjointed still.. I hope I can pull myself together soon.
Hey. I think you did well to try the breathing exercises and think about the possibilties of why your therapist said what she did. You sound calmer which is good. I also think it was a positive step to contact the therapist that you know will be covered by your student insurance. I don't think it's too early to contact her, it will be helpful for you to find out if she is appropriate for you and its good to get the information early, im sure your T will be pleased.

Thanks for this!
jexa
  #12  
Old Jun 04, 2011, 09:15 PM
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(((((((((((((Jexa)))))))))))))))
I'm so sorry you are having such a hard time right now. When I found my new T when I went to grad school I found someone a couple of months before I moved, and then we connected again when I got there to schedule my first appointment. She was really nice and said that she would help me find someone else if it didn't work out with her. I think it is totally fine contacting someone this far ahead. It can take time to find the right fit, or someone who is taking new clients (annoying, I know).

You need to take care of yourself before you can help others. I think my T would have said the same thing before I moved had we not been planing for me to find a T after I moved. You will make it work. It will be okay. Especially since there are Ts who take your insurance.
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jexa, Oceanwave
  #13  
Old Jun 05, 2011, 03:16 AM
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I have been listening to the radio this morning and Ruby Wax was being interviewed (not sure if everyone has heard of her - she is on the TV). She suffers from depression and is currently studying Mindfulness at Oxford University. She was talking about how it helps her and how she has to be 45 minutes of it a day to maintain her mental health. She said it has been found that the brain cannot ruminate and focus on a physical object at the same time and so that by focusing on a physical object you can stop the ruminating. I said above how my T had got me to alternate between looking at an object and my breathing when my head was spinning and I guess this is why. I wonder if anyone has any other info. experiences in using this? I am going to try and learn more about it and spend 45 minutes doing it before I try and do some studying to see if that helps my concentration.
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  #14  
Old Jun 05, 2011, 06:26 AM
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Well, I am new here but would like to try to help. I have found moves to be incredibly destabilizing for me and they really mess me up especially in the first two weeks (and I've done a few of them). I think having a new T lined up is a great idea and you may be able to circumvent any problems or if you're like me at all not decompenstate (as I always do upon a move). Perhaps this is why your therapist used language like "at a bare minimum. Hang in there and congrats on grad school. You're about to embark on an exciting journey and I wish I had a plan like you. And having such a plan tells me that you are anything but really messed up.
Thanks for this!
jexa
  #15  
Old Jun 05, 2011, 09:32 PM
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Quote:
On Thursday my T and I had a really intense session where I decided to talk about my difficulty in relationships/attachment, mainly that I always have to have a "person" that I get REALLY intense and obsessive about, and this person becomes my entire world, and I'm not sure how to break free of that pattern.
(((((Jexa))))) I'm sorry you're going through a hard time now. I can take a T's words and obsess about them too. I agree with the suggestions about breathing and mindfulness. They're helping me but it's hard to do them.

Are you feeling better today? I sure hope so! I think it's fine that you emailed a prospective T already.

I wanted to comment on what I quoted because it's my exact pattern too, and I don't know how to break free of it either. You wrote it just the way it is for me; I could have written those words! I wondered what any of your Ts said to do--how to get free of the pattern.
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jexa
  #16  
Old Jun 05, 2011, 11:02 PM
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I am feeling a little better today. I was able to get the work done I was supposed to get done. Well, not as much as I planned, but I am ok with what I accomplished. I had a weird moment today where I was feeling up-in-space, totally lost, not able to get things done.. and then there was a strange moment where the dishes pulled me in like a "hook" and all of a sudden I was in the "mode" where I got the whole house clean. Then I could write (which was the work I was supposed to get done).

Anyway, now I am just distracting and watching shows and stuff but I am ok with that. Thank you all so much for being here. T is definitely going to have to hear about this reaction. I still.. it is still bugging me because I have this sense that she DOES think I am really messed up and stuff and I feel like she is judging me and my ability to be an effective future T. I don't know for sure though, but it is bothering me.

rainbow, that pattern.. it is such a snare, I don't even know what to tell you. I had a hard time even admitting this pattern to myself, to be honest, and although I talked about it with my old T, she didn't really have a ton of concrete answers. My new T hasn't really either. So far I have just gotten stuck again, and again, and again. If I am not in T, I will do it to a teacher, or a mentor, or a friend, or a boyfriend. So I try to contain it in T because it is a safe place.

BUT even though my T's haven't had a ton of answers, the things they have said have led me to think about this issue a LOT on my own. So, what I've been told is that I need to "spread out" the intensity of my attachment -- that I need to cultivate a lot of different close relationships and invest in all of them so that my intensity doesn't overwhelm people. I have also learned, through a lot of therapy, how to feel something fully without the need to act it out. So, when that obsession comes, I try not to feed it (because then it just grows BIGGER and bigger forever), and that's helped some -- just learning to feel that desperate need and then not give it fuel.

I also have been told that it's like my way of never getting close to anyone. It is very self-protective in a way, because it is not "true love." It is not open, it is not sharing, it is not healthy give and take. So it's like the hurt is contained because it all, always, resided within me.

I don't know, that's just some of what I learned. I have learned how to control the behaviors so I don't freak people out, but I don't know how to overcome the feelings. I have a thought that I will always have that black hole inside of me, but in time, it will be ok and not so scary to have the black hole, if that makes sense. Most importantly, I won't have to act like a crazy person because I feel desperate. I can feel desperate and then just soothe myself, without needing someone else to do it.

One thing I have learned through experience mainly is that feeding the black hole is counterproductive. Following the obsession, doing what it says, acting in desperation, acting out, following the person on Facebook, finding out where they live, calling them unnecessarily, all of that. If I DO any of those things, I am feeding a monster.. which will grow, and grow, and grow, forever, and I'll have less and less control over it. I have learned to NEVER feed the monster. Sometimes, the urge is too great.. but self-control is paramount. Build that muscle, it will save you from losing yourself.
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  #17  
Old Jun 06, 2011, 02:12 AM
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I'll probably end up replying to this thread piece by piece. Anyway, here's piece 1.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jexa View Post
I was able to get the work done I was supposed to get done. Well, not as much as I planned, but I am ok with what I accomplished. I had a weird moment today where I was feeling up-in-space, totally lost, not able to get things done.. and then there was a strange moment where the dishes pulled me in like a "hook" and all of a sudden I was in the "mode" where I got the whole house clean. Then I could write (which was the work I was supposed to get done).
That reminds me quite a bit of an experience I've often had. I think I last posted about it here.

Quote:
One thing I have learned through experience mainly is that feeding the black hole is counterproductive. Following the obsession, doing what it says, acting in desperation, acting out, following the person on Facebook, finding out where they live, calling them unnecessarily, all of that. If I DO any of those things, I am feeding a monster.. which will grow, and grow, and grow, forever, and I'll have less and less control over it. I have learned to NEVER feed the monster. Sometimes, the urge is too great.. but self-control is paramount. Build that muscle, it will save you from losing yourself.
I think it was Eric Hoffer who said, "You can never get enough of what you don't really want." What you call feeding the monster, I'd be inclined to call misdirection: searching harder and harder for whatever it is I really want, by moving farther and farther from where it's actually to be found. A dumb example might be if I admired someone from a distance and wished I could feel closer to them... so I set about learning as many facts as I could about them such as where they were born, what they studied in school, who their friends were, and what they ate for breakfast this morning. I could never know enough facts to feel any closer to them but I might very well think at some point, "Lunch, that's the key! Knowing what they had for breakfast didn't help much but if I can only find out what they had for lunch... that'll be real progress!" Obviously (or pretty obviously), the more useless information I learn about someone the more it's going to get in the way of feeling closer to them or even feeling I ever could feel closer to them. The more preoccupied I get with collecting useless information, the less prepared I am to connect with someone else even if they were to decide they wanted to connect with me. Meanwhile, if the other person should happen to find out I've been asking their friends what they eat for breakfast, my chances of ever getting close to them are likely to go way down!

The way out, as I see it, does eventually include "not feeding the monster" but I think that's a terrible place to start. It feels like, "I so want to feed the monster but I mustn't feed the monster... I so want to feed the monster but I mustn't feed the monster." I tie up all my energy in the struggle against feeding the monster and have none left for anything else.

What I recommend instead is: forget the monster. When you feel like feeding it, just sit with the feeling, let it in, and let it tell you what it really wants.

Have I made a start?
Thanks for this!
jexa, rainbow8, Suratji
  #18  
Old Jun 06, 2011, 08:56 AM
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Jexa and Fool Zero, your comments are extremely helpful to me. Jexa, everything you wrote rings true for me! I get stuck again and again, and in the past it was with "real" people, until I began therapy and then I substituted my Ts and have ever since.

You said the only way out is not to feed the monster, that doing so is counterproductive. Fool Zero, what you described about misdirection is exactly what I have done all of my life! You say to let the feelings in instead. It's true, about wanting to be close to a person but finding all the information is not achieving that. I don't want to hijack your thread, Jexa. This is related to the thread I started about googling, but I wanted to thank both of you for talking about this subject.

How are you today, Jexa?
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  #19  
Old Jun 07, 2011, 07:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fool Zero View Post
I think it was Eric Hoffer who said, "You can never get enough of what you don't really want." What you call feeding the monster, I'd be inclined to call misdirection: searching harder and harder for whatever it is I really want, by moving farther and farther from where it's actually to be found.
Thank you so much FZ, this is incredible, and really strikes a chord. Misdirection. That is exactly what is going on.

The thing is, there is this desperation in me that is so great that I am afraid if they find out how much need is in me, they will run. And the thing is, they do run. So I guess when I "misdirect," it feels like what I'm really doing is hiding the desperation from the person, but indulging it privately so it doesn't sneak into my interactions with them. Because, would you rather meet a person and then secretly get as much information about them as possible to satisfy your urge to feel close to them, or meet a person and desperately try to spend every moment with them?

I have needs, I need to love and be loved, and those needs just don't get met for me. There is a loneliness so great in me that it feels like it could swallow the universe. It's like I'm a malnourished child. Have you ever heard (or personally known) that a lot of children who are malnourished might later struggle with food hoarding? Even when they are in a place with plenty of food, they will start digging through the garbage, hiding piles of food in their room, throwing tantrums if you throw scraps of food away. Well, I feel like one of those children, except I feel that way about love.

The thing is, though, love cannot be controlled. If it is controlled, it is not love. Love is spontaneous. What I want is love. I want to feel safe giving it. But you can't feel safe giving it. You can't will it to happen, you can't expect another person to make it happen.. but don't we all need it? And I know that asking the question, "So how do I find love" goes completely against the idea of love's spontaneity, but this has become a problem for me, and if a problem needs solving, there need to be steps to a solution, only in this case the only step is letting go, and I just. don't. get it. I don't even know what it means to let go. I get that the more I try to understand it, the further I am from it, in the way that "the Tao that can be described is not the Tao." And I am aware that my problem is that my head is a world of words and I think in words and I live up there, but all my attempts to get out of my word-traps seem to invent new word-traps. Even the ones that are supposed to be teaching me how to live life instead of living word-traps (a la, "Get Out of Your Mind and Into Your Life").

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fool Zero View Post
The way out, as I see it, does eventually include "not feeding the monster" but I think that's a terrible place to start. It feels like, "I so want to feed the monster but I mustn't feed the monster... I so want to feed the monster but I mustn't feed the monster." I tie up all my energy in the struggle against feeding the monster and have none left for anything else.
This is exactly how it feels. I love the smilie you used because it IS banging my head on the wall. The last guy I dated, I was totally obsessed with, but I NEVER called him. He called me once a week and we would go out. I didn't kiss him until the third date, etc. I was NOT going to feed the monster.

I remained in control, and I actually recovered fairly quickly when I realized he was dating several girls, including me, concurrently.. which could have previously sent me into a self-destructive tailspin. But I sacrificed something major. I stifled a scream inside of me, I pretended it didn't exist, and on our dates, I felt stiff and unfeeling. Not myself. We did many fun things, none of which I enjoyed.

Yes, it wasn't worth the energy to stifle the scream, was it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fool Zero View Post
What I recommend instead is: forget the monster. When you feel like feeding it, just sit with the feeling, let it in, and let it tell you what it really wants.

Have I made a start?
You have, FZ, a big start. Your contributions are... incredibly refreshing. And even though I seem like a stubborn fool since I seem to have a "yes but" for EVERYthing.

The monster, by the way, is actually not a monster.

She is not a monster at all. I call her that because she acts like a monster. She is a child, throwing a tantrum. I've tried to talk with her before. But all she can say is that she wants everyone in the whole world to love her, all of the time. So that is the feeling. I can't give her what she wants. And most of the time I hate her for wanting it. I guess that is cruel, huh.
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  #20  
Old Jun 07, 2011, 08:55 PM
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How are you today, Jexa?
I am ok today, not too bad. I was feeling really bad because I called out sick at work and came home and immediately felt better, which means that the "sickness" I was feeling at work was really anxiety, and I felt guilty, and the guilt paralyzed me. Work is really really complicated -- the politics in my workplace have been setting me off majorly lately.

Anyway, that is just to preface that I am on this listserv where a man named Steve Hayes sometimes posts (a prominent and awesome clinical psychologist who developed Acceptance and Commitment Therapy). Anyway, he posted something that made my day better today, and I would like to share it. This was in response to a member who posted some frustrations about how impossible mindfulness and acceptance were. Maybe this will be helpful to someone.

Quote:
The mind as it is evolved protects us from tigers, but in the modern world it has turned on us.

ACT will show you how this works and what to do about it, but read that as "show you" not "tell you." If "understanding" was the key you'd have found a way out long ago.

You've been on the list about 2 months ... but this list alone will do nothing for you unless you are doing the work to take your life back from the organ between your ears.

My suggestion: if you don't have a good ACT therapist to work with pick one of the books and focus on the actual practices you find there. Forget about "being mindful of everything in the world all the time" and sit and follow your breath. Forget about "accepting it for what it is" and
practice walking into pain with curiosity and open awareness. If it is not a practice, just leave it alone.

The work is to take your life back from the organ between your ears ... feeding it more chunks of your life in the game of "understanding" will not help even if the words you are trying to understand are ones like "mindfulness" and "acceptance."

Here, look, thru the crack comes a strip of paper. There is a message. "by the way, there are no actual locks on this prison."

Good luck. We are out here.

Today, I have been telling myself, "There are no actual locks on this prison." Imagine! The whole world unlocks in an instant.. anyway it is not so simple, I keep finding myself back in brain-lock, but slowly.. slowly..
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He who trims himself to suit everyone will soon whittle himself away.
Thanks for this!
FooZe, Suratji
  #21  
Old Jun 07, 2011, 09:21 PM
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zooropa zooropa is offline
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Quote:
by the way, there are no actual locks on this prison
I just...wow. I just has to say that out loud a couple times, and then I had to walk away because I felt dizzy. I'm kind of...speechless.

There are no actual locks on this prison.
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She left pieces of her life behind her everywhere she went.
"It's easier to feel the sunlight without them," she said.
~Brian Andreas
Thanks for this!
jexa, Suratji
  #22  
Old Jun 07, 2011, 10:20 PM
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Suratji Suratji is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zooropa View Post
I just...wow. I just has to say that out loud a couple times, and then I had to walk away because I felt dizzy. I'm kind of...speechless.

There are no actual locks on this prison.
But where are the doors?
Thanks for this!
jexa, Sannah
  #23  
Old Jun 07, 2011, 10:25 PM
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googley googley is offline
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Member Since: Jan 2009
Posts: 7,516
Hi Jexa.
I'm sorry about your work environment. I wish it was less stressful.

You stated that your younger you needs to be loved all the time. Needs to feel loved by everyone. Can you tell her that you will love her. That you accept her, and you wont ever leave her? Can you be the source of love that she needs? I know this is a tall order. My T said something once about taking care of the inner me that was hurting, and I responded with that I didn't want to and still have trouble with it. But you are the only one who is always going to be around. You are the one who can provide the love to yourself in a way that no one else can. While I hate the phrase that you have to love yourself before you can love others, in this situation it seems to fit.

Thanks for this!
jexa, rainbow8
  #24  
Old Jun 08, 2011, 10:09 AM
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Sannah Sannah is offline
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Member Since: Jul 2008
Posts: 19,179
Quote:
Originally Posted by jexa View Post
I have needs, I need to love and be loved, and those needs just don't get met for me. There is a loneliness so great in me that it feels like it could swallow the universe.

The thing is, though, love cannot be controlled. I want to feel safe giving it. But you can't feel safe giving it. I don't even know what it means to let go.

The monster, by the way, is actually not a monster.

She is not a monster at all. I call her that because she acts like a monster. She is a child, throwing a tantrum. I've tried to talk with her before. But all she can say is that she wants everyone in the whole world to love her, all of the time. So that is the feeling. I can't give her what she wants. And most of the time I hate her for wanting it. I guess that is cruel, huh.
Fear of intimacy, even though you are starving for it?

You want a relationship that you can control so then you will feel safe? Maybe this is why you are in your head all the time because you can control your thoughts? Healing is being with your feelings though and this is where life is lived too.

Some inner child work maybe?

You can work through this Jexa.
__________________
Don't let your problems or the world make you feel small. Stretch your arms out over your head. Take a deep breathe. Tell yourself that you are big. You are big, not small. You always have space, you are not trapped........

I'm an ISFJ
Thanks for this!
jexa
  #25  
Old Jun 08, 2011, 07:46 PM
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jexa jexa is offline
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zoo -- yeah, it is like that. Jaw-dropping. But really. Like, really! Yesterday I walked outside and looked up at the sky and said out loud, "No locks!" And the world seemed beautiful and huge and open.

Suratji -- there aren't doors either. What we think are prison walls could just drop away if you, as Steve Hayes said, take your life back from the organ between your ears. Our "verbal pathways" are our belief systems; they feel like railroad tracks to those of us who feel stuck. But if you get back into your body and feel how you feel and get back to now and watch your experience, those railroad tracks don't even exist. But they DO exist, I mean really they do, but they exist in the world of the mind, which has evolved to keep you alive, but your mind is just an organ of your body like your lungs, your mind is not you, and the doors your mind is looking for don't really exist. Just like the locks your mind tells you about.

I am not saying this like I am actually "there," you know, because I know I'm not really "with" my experience, and I forget all the time that all of it's just a freaking game, and I take things way too seriously, and I keep believing in the doors, and the reason for that is partially that emotions still freak me out and feel really dangerous.

googley, when I first read this post of yours I got pretty upset because my first thought was, "There is no way I could love that hateful little monster." My mind practically screamed it at me.

I don't want to lie to her and tell her I can provide her unconditional love. It would be like my parents trying to tell me that they love me no matter what I do when I know it's not true. Their love is conditional. And so is my love for myself. And like I said, love can't be forced, you know, you can't just will it to happen and then you really feel love for someone. I can't have that little girl dealing with another broken promise, especially coming from me. If I promised her I would never leave her, and that I would always love her, I would be lying. I want to put her in a cage.

Sannah, fear of intimacy because I am starving for it. The starvation is so desperate. Desperation can't lead to true intimacy. I act rashly, urgently, and think I am feeling intimate when in fact I am so starving that I am just eating up the first closeness that comes my way. It terrifies people. They back off. I stay starving.

So yeah I want to be able to control it. I don't know how else to get the need met. I don't want a relationship to control so that I will feel safe. I mean, I can go without a relationship, I am not dependent. What happens is that when I get into a relationship, when that first spark hits me, my desperation gets triggered and then I feel like I have to get back in control.

I am in my head all of the time because it's how I was raised, it's because I am a student, it's because I was taught that to solve problems you should think through them rationally, and my entire childhood was all about escaping to the world of literature. I live in my head because that's where I got comfortable.

I don't think healing is just being with my feelings. I think healing is about learning to inhabit myself. Not just feeling the feelings, saying bring on the pain or the joy or whatever, but actually like, living in the world inside the skin and realizing that my brain is just one little part of me, and if I am my observing self, it is just a tool, and that my body is me, too, and I have every right not to see myself as this faraway strange organism that is always against "me." I AM my organism. My organism is not against me, it is me, my mind is not the real me trying to get the rest of me to cooperate, it is all me, it is ALL me, and what my mind says it wants is based only on what it's learned and there is a whole world that is open without any doors or locks or walls or fences.

I just wish I could internalize all of this that I have come to understand. I suppose it is just a practice of many moments of feeling enlightened and then lost once more. I wonder what it takes for these moments to string together until I finally get what it means to let go when my whole self screams, NEED.
__________________
He who trims himself to suit everyone will soon whittle himself away.
Thanks for this!
FooZe, rainbow8
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