This was kinda brought up on the couch....

Control of ones emotions, thoughts, feelings, personal reactions etc... in therapy helpful? harmful?

Are you in control of these things, hard to make a connection?
Do you relinquish control is the connection easier to make?

I'm thinking it may be impossible for some to give up control of ones self, especially if your childhood was jacked up. Some people, myself included, essentially raised themselves or they were controlled by others and now they are in control and won't give that up. Its hard to break this pattern, as one truly believes it will bring horrific consequences. On the other hand I think others, give all control away, as they too had a jacked up childhood and never had any control, and still believe that they have no control. These people tend to dump it all on T and have no trouble letting T in. I think It is all based on fears , rationalized by our own past experiences. We have to believe that x will not bring y, even though it did before. We are no longer in the same environments or situations. There is a tremendous amount of fear that one must overcome to take this first step and "chill out", to let T in. I wish I wasn't so scared , I guess.

Any thoughts?

It has taken me 10 months at 2 sessions a week and lots of emailing and although I do have a connection, its not the deep one I think I need.... so I see that as no connection as its not meaningful.

Darnit, I had a longish answer typed and then the window froze up. Anyway, I'll try to remember what I wrote: thanks for this thread, which resonates with me a lot. I've been thinking a lot about self-control recently, in and outside T. I don't have enough of it - and I have too much, depending on how I view it. When I grew up I had no power, I could not control my life in any way, so the only way I could feel that I had any say in what went on was by self-control. (This is my pop psychology analysis - it's not something I've discussed with T.) I keep a very tight rein on what I say, what I share, and how I say things, with everybody, not just T. Which means that when I lose control (of my feelings, my reactions, what I tell people) I can get rather upset and frightened. It happens in T sometimes, and I know that my T thinks I should spend less energy on keeping the self-control - but I worry that if I lose that, I'll turn completely irrational which won't help at all. On the other hand, if I don't talk, then T won't be able to be of much help, either.

As for the connection, I truly can't say. I have been thinking at times that there was a connection there, but my current view is that that's probably just my imagination running amok. I don't know if less self-control on my part would lead to more of a connection. I rather think it would be the other way around - if I show my loathsome self without controlling the information I give, there's definitely not going to be any kind of connection... but then again, on the third hand, if I hide myself then that's a barrier to connection. I really don't know.

Sorry this got so long. I think this is a great topic to discuss.

Control is an illusion

Originally Posted by earthmamma

Control is an illusion

What do you mean?

Originally Posted by earthmamma

Control is an illusion

Please explain further..... this is interesting, as I could say that many things are not what they seem, for example sometimes my feelings regarding a situation are not the accurate, as in others think my reaction is skewed or too intense for the circumstance. I may "beat myself up" and internalize self loathing for thinking I hurt someone with words ...in reality they claim to have not been hurt, nor see how it would have even been considered hurtful. Yet I don't believe them. Is anything real?

[wotchermuggle]

I decide what we talk about so I'm in control in that sense. Good connection with T.

[stopdog]

I agree one cannot control the outside world. I do not agree that one cannot control oneself. Control is the word the therapist has used, but if issue is taken with the word, then, for me, then the term contained is not inaccurate. I find control of myself and/ or containment to be very useful and good.

I feel attachment to my t. I don't know about connected. I voted for in control and connected, assuming that means I am attached to him.

I feel I am in control in that, for the most part, I am in control of what we talk about bi am careful, for the most part, to control myself. I dislike crying in front of people, etc, and for the most part I don't. However, on the rare times I lose control, I am learning to trust that he will not use my loss of control against me and no harm comes to me from it.

[Chopin99]

I am in control of my sessions and discuss what I want to discuss. However, since I'm starting the difficult shame work next week, I told T that she was most likely going to have to push me to get me to talk. So that's handing a bit of control over, I guess. I feel a connection most of the time I'm with T here lately, but it's not particularly strong.

[sittingatwatersedge]

apart from whether you control your emotions during a particular hour - consider:

T is not vulnerable in that room;
the client is.
Client is encouraged to dive into deep emotional waters;
T stays dispassionately on the shore, providing the beacon to bring client back to land.

The system is what it is. To me, there is no doubt about who is really in control.

Doubt me? Try it out.
T: we have to stop now.
Client: no, I think we'll keep going for a while.

yeh, right.

[stopdog]

Originally Posted by sittingatwatersedge

i
The system is what it is. To me, there is no doubt about who is really in control.

Doubt me? Try it out.
T: we have to stop now.
Client: no, I think we'll keep going for a while.

yeh, right.

Ah but the client does have the ultimate control

Client: I quit. (and does not go back)

Originally Posted by wotchermuggle

I decide what we talk about so I'm in control in that sense. Good connection with T.

I meant more along the lines of allowing ones self to be vulnerable, open and honest, not picking and choosing our thought and what we say carefully.

Originally Posted by stopdog

I agree one cannot control the outside world. I do not agree that one cannot control oneself. Control is the word the therapist has used, but if issue is taken with the word, then, for me, then the term contained is not inaccurate. I find control of myself and/ or containment to be very useful and good.

Yes this is what I mean.... useful in what way? It prevents what? It accomplishes what?

Originally Posted by My kids are cool

I feel attachment to my t. I don't know about connected. I voted for in control and connected, assuming that means I am attached to him.

I feel I am in control in that, for the most part, I am in control of what we talk about bi am careful, for the most part, to control myself. I dislike crying in front of people, etc, and for the most part I don't. However, on the rare times I lose control, I am learning to trust that he will not use my loss of control against me and no harm comes to me from it.

See that's what I mean about control...you have over came your fear on certain occasions. I guess the connection part too me would be attached as in mentally/emotionally bonded verses comfortable and known....

Originally Posted by Chopin99

I am in control of my sessions and discuss what I want to discuss. However, since I'm starting the difficult shame work next week, I told T that she was most likely going to have to push me to get me to talk. So that's handing a bit of control over, I guess. I feel a connection most of the time I'm with T here lately, but it's not particularly strong.

Exactly, you are willing to overcome the fear and even asked her to help you let go of your control and push you to do so....

Originally Posted by sittingatwatersedge

apart from whether you control your emotions during a particular hour - consider:

T is not vulnerable in that room;
the client is.
Client is encouraged to dive into deep emotional waters;
T stays dispassionately on the shore, providing the beacon to bring client back to land.

The system is what it is. To me, there is no doubt about who is really in control.

Doubt me? Try it out.
T: we have to stop now.
Client: no, I think we'll keep going for a while.

yeh, right.

The client is only vulnerable if they allow it.... that's how I see it. As for Control of the situation and physical restraints of time and location...yes, we have no control. Sometimes people just stand on the shore with T skipping rocks....

[stopdog]

Plus the client has control in choosing the therapist that works for them in terms of length of appointment, time of appointment, cost, location etc.
Therapists are not more powerful than clients unless clients let them be.

[granite1]

wow lola what a question .i am having huge struggles with this now in T and so on. i felt so out of control of things when i realized i was moving close to my T.something i am very careful not to do. i feel i am very much in control externally in T but completely out of control internally.i believe this is what causes the complete external control if it makes any sense. if i loose that all H E L L will break loose and that isn't a good thing at all .i have seen the out come. but who knows it all may just be one complete mess and i have no control at all in T and i just am fooling myself .because if i did it would be easy for me to talk and say what i want to say. does being able to talk come from internal or external control???

[unaluna]

I don't understand the question, I guess. or maybe I am anti-control, pro-attachment. because my family was all control but no attachment. that sounds right. T's are supposed to provide a "safe holding environment" - like the outward bound trust exercise where you fall backwards? which I won't do with "regular" people - I think they underestimate my actual size! - but I will with this T.

[CantExplain]

Both control and connection can ebb and flow. There is no single answer that applies to every session.

[~EnlightenMe~]

Great thread. I'm out of control, and I felt attached with my xT. I didn't always feel connected with him, though. With my new T, I am in control and not attached. My default is out of control/attached, unfortunately. I do think however, that I do control myself and my emotions alot, as in I push them down/away. Because of this, they end up coming out like a volcano.

When I am enraged/triggered/hurt, that is when my emotions boil over. If I am enraged, I want to verbalize it and get it out but it comes out in direct proportion with how I feel emotionally; but then, I always feel bad afterward when the white part of me shows (black and white thinking and feeling). So, if I hear T say I need to control myself when I am enraged, if he says it while I'm enraged, that part of me wants to verbalize how I feel so I get more enraged. If T says it after I am enraged, I feel embarrassed, shame, guilt, etc. because this part of me is able to be empathic and doesn't want to be out of control. Then I feel helpless because I didn't control myself, so at those points it is not so much a matter of not being able to be in control, it is more of a matter that that specific emotional state does not want to stop verbalizing my experience.

I'm not proud of this, believe me. I despise it. I suspect it is a choice at some point, but I just haven't figured it out.

Mostly it is just me verbalizing out loud. The one time, the worst time, I SI'd in T's bathroom after session. It was when I was first experiencing the torrent of emotions and handled it like a novice BPDer. When I was in the bathroom, one lady who worked there used to be my therapist, but I changed to see a male therapist in the same office.

So, I was sitting in the bathroom after I SI'd, and the lady therapist was saying, "She just dropped me like a ton of bricks, blah blah ." This is what I was thinking, "This is unbelievable. I am in SO much pain emotionally and all she can do is complain about me changing therapists? I wasn't mean or anything when I left."

I actually thought that sitting there. I'm like, what was I thinking, or more so, what was I doing. I think alot, but I wasn't thinking much in there. I was a monster. Again, I am not proud of this at all, but I'm showing that I was out of control, and what I was thinking.

So, this was a regression. Bad behavior gone wild. My first time doing anything like that and I was bewildered as much as others were. NOBODY would have ever guessed that I would do something like that, me included. I was always the well-behaved, timid child that never did anything wrong. And there I was, doing this horrifically wrong. I ended up going back to T's office, and I got a stuffed animal and laid down face first on his couch. I had taken a few Ativan I think. I can't believe I am typing this, because I don't EVER want to think about this. Thinking about me looking like a child, I am SOOOO disgusted about that and it happened 7 years ago. I have visuals of me lying there on the couch, and it disgusts me. Afterwards, I kind of shrouded it in some humor, but it doesn't work now. I never want to see the type of animal that stuffed animal was as long as I live. I never want to see the visuals again. Period. My T should have consequenced me by terminating me. I guess he chose to give me a free pass on this one. I chose and still choose not give myself clemency on this one. The angry emails, I choose to not give myself clemency. T should have terminated me.

Thank you for letting me post this. I so badly want to understand others on this site. I gave an example of the worst thing I did when I was out of control/regressed. I want to say I would do it differently if I had a do over, I would if I knew what i know now. But at that point, it was a reaction.

I think the OP was right, that I felt helpless then and I feel the same way now. I want to understand when others say that I have a choice, because I honestly don't understand.

I am looking forward to reading others' posts! It gets a little hairy sometimes with all of the emotions flowing, and I'm guilty, but I honestly want to hear, understand, and learn from those that have a more detached attachment instead of a preoccupied attachment like mine. I have alot to learn and alot of progress to make, and I appreciate everybody on this site

[murray]

I keep coming back to this thread trying to figure out how to answer this. It's confusing to me. I think that I am connected to my T although at times I seriously doubt this. As far as the control, I try so very hard to always be in control in my life and in T. Part of the reason that I don't drink or do drugs is that I am terrified to lose control- that leads to being vulnerable and danger. Over the years working with T I have begun to let down my guard and I find that at times I can't control my emotions. Although it terrifies me, the connection with T has allowed me to accept that it is safe within his office to let go and cry if I need to or say what needs to be said. It is very hard and I often send apologetic emails after any session where I let the control slip and emotions come out (he of course, tells me that I don't need to apologize but I feel the need).

[Ike McCaslin]

I'm very attached to my PDOC and not attached at all to my T. I try to maintain control with both.

[rainbow8]

antimatter, I just want to say I think you're being too hard on yourself about what happened after that t session. Your former T (the lady who talked about you dropping her), if I got that situation right, was kind of cruel for saying that instead of offering you some support! It wasn't a terrible thing to lie down on the couch like a child afterward, either. Those feelings were from a child part of you, and that's nothing to be ashamed about.

I am very connected to my T. That was easy to answer. But I'm not sure about the control part. I used to be very much in control of my feelings, and one part of me still is, because I can't cry in therapy. I have total control over the ability to cry or not cry in therapy though I wish I didn't.

Otherwise, I feel out-of-control somewhat. Are you saying being out of control is negative or positive? That's confusing to me. It has a negative connotation but you, lola, are talking about being vulnerable in therapy and that is a good quality, so we can get the help we need. After years with different Ts, I tell my current T everything I feel even if it's hard to do. That makes me vulnerable. I tell her I want to hold her hand or hug her, and that makes me feel the same way.

I used to always want to able to "let go" in therapy, withOUT losing control. I think that's the goal, not to be out of control. Or maybe I'm confused about the definitions. Anyway, letting go makes me feel more connected to my T. It's a relief to not have to hold back even though it's uncomfortable. Kind of overwhelming for someone who was always so shy and never let anyone see my feelings or know what was going on inside of me.

[~EnlightenMe~]

((Rainbow)) - - thanks. My reason for posting that story is because someone posted that people who regress shouldn't get a free pass to behave badly. I want to understand this, truly, and not be triggered by it. I gave the example because I wanted to show that I'm not trying to just behave however I want, I'm not just being bad. I don't know how to process what I go through when I regress and that a therapist should impose a consequence. I impose my own consequences. I guess that is control? I feel like I just don't get it, and maybe I never will. I really just don't understand and am glad this post is here so I can try to.

Originally Posted by CantExplain

Both control and connection can ebb and flow. There is no single answer that applies to every session.

But there is one that occurs more then the other and for some it is an all or nothing... You may ebb and flow...I just Ebb on the control part.

Originally Posted by sittingatwatersedge

apart from whether you control your emotions during a particular hour - consider:

T is not vulnerable in that room;
the client is.
Client is encouraged to dive into deep emotional waters;
T stays dispassionately on the shore, providing the beacon to bring client back to land.

The system is what it is. To me, there is no doubt about who is really in control.

Doubt me? Try it out.
T: we have to stop now.
Client: no, I think we'll keep going for a while.

yeh, right.

I've tried it out. And it works for me. LOL! My therapist does not stop my therapy. I tell her when I'm through. So, I do believe I'm in control and connected to my therapist.

Originally Posted by Antimatter

I'm out of control, and I felt attached with my xT. I didn't always feel connected with him, though. With my new T, I am in control and not attached. My default is out of control/attached, unfortunately. I do think however, that I do control myself and my emotions alot, as in I push them down/away. Because of this, they end up coming out like a volcano.

Your xT experience is probably what is causing you to attempt to be in control more now, abrupt termination of attachment caused you to self harm. hence non attachment with current T... verifying my theory
A true connection can be reached through willingness to be vulnerable or give in and not try to emotionally control, and its a huge part of therapy.

Originally Posted by Antimatter

When I am enraged/triggered/hurt, that is when my emotions boil over. If I am enraged, I want to verbalize it and get it out but it comes out in direct proportion with how I feel emotionally; but then, I always feel bad afterward when the white part of me shows (black and white thinking and feeling). So, if I hear T say I need to control myself when I am enraged, if he says it while I'm enraged, that part of me wants to verbalize how I feel so I get more enraged. If T says it after I am enraged, I feel embarrassed, shame, guilt, etc. because this part of me is able to be empathic and doesn't want to be out of control. Then I feel helpless because I didn't control myself , so at those points it is not so much a matter of not being able to be in control, it is more of a matter that that specific emotional state does not want to stop verbalizing my experience.

Maybe your controlling or more specifically suppression of emotion, is building up like shaking a soda can....

And as far as the enraged portion... you can't fight a fire properly from the center of it... you know what I mean?
I suspect the guilt is there after the fire regardless if T called you out in the moment and added fuel to the fire or not. I think lots of us have guilt and shame. Your not helpless , you have a choice here.... this is where we learn to make better choices and stop being reactionary to situations, is helpless for you more like giving up on your perceived ability to control your emotions? I think this is important.

Originally Posted by Antimatter

I actually thought that sitting there. I'm like, what was I thinking, or more so, what was I doing. I think alot, but I wasn't thinking much in there. I was a monster. Again, I am not proud of this at all, but I'm showing that I was out of control, and what I was thinking.

So, this was a regression. Bad behavior gone wild. My first time doing anything like that and I was bewildered as much as others were. NOBODY would have ever guessed that I would do something like that, me included. I was always the well-behaved, timid child that never did anything wrong. And there I was, doing this horrifically wrong. I ended up going back to T's office, and I got a stuffed animal and laid down face first on his couch. I had taken a few Ativan I think. I can't believe I am typing this, because I don't EVER want to think about this. Thinking about me looking like a child, I am SOOOO disgusted about that and it happened 7 years ago. I have visuals of me lying there on the couch, and it disgusts me. Afterwards, I kind of shrouded it in some humor, but it doesn't work now. I never want to see the type of animal that stuffed animal was as long as I live. I never want to see the visuals again. Period. My T should have consequenced me by terminating me. I guess he chose to give me a free pass on this one. I chose and still choose not give myself clemency on this one. The angry emails, I choose to not give myself clemency. T should have terminated me.

But at that point, it was a reaction.

I think the OP was right, that I felt helpless

You weren't thinking it was reactionary, emotional can of coke spilled over.
You shouldnt forget this nor try to pretend it didnt happen.... you know why we study history in school? To learn from our previous mistakes. You should process this with a T.... learn from it and stop beating yourself up for it.... we have all had our versions of the "meltdown", I've had several. T shouldn't have terminated you that is what was the proverbial final straw in the first can of coke.... little you was reactionary...I get this. Thank you for all your input and I hope you find what you are looking for with PC.

Originally Posted by murray

Part of the reason that I don't drink or do drugs is that I am terrified to lose control- that leads to being vulnerable and danger. Over the years working with T I have begun to let down my guard and I find that at times I can't control my emotions. Although it terrifies me, the connection with T has allowed me to accept that it is safe within his office to let go and cry if I need to or say what needs to be said. It is very hard and I often send apologetic emails after any session where I let the control slip and emotions come out (he of course, tells me that I don't need to apologize but I feel the need).

I hear this alot from control people, no drinking etc. You can almost tell just from reading peoples posts... interesting huh?

I think that's the key....do the hard part, learn , in session and with T, we shouldn't control our emotions, instead just learn to deal with them , accept them and not have guilt or shame and turn that into anger and hatred toward ourselves.... T is like a giant dress rehearsal for life.

Originally Posted by Ike McCaslin

I'm very attached to my PDOC and not attached at all to my T. I try to maintain control with both.

What's PDOC got that T doesn't?

Originally Posted by rainbow8

I have total control over the ability to cry or not cry in therapy though I wish I didn't.

Otherwise, I feel out-of-control somewhat. Are you saying being out of control is negative or positive? That's confusing to me. It has a negative connotation but you, lola, are talking about being vulnerable in therapy and that is a good quality, so we can get the help we need.

I used to always want to able to "let go" in therapy, withOUT losing control.

Anyway, letting go makes me feel more connected to my T.

I would say having control over crying is control unless we are talking about crocodile tears for manipulation?

Thank you for saying it better then I, I think the control I speak of is tied to the ability to ALLOW your self to be vulnerable, we control that. I don't think true connection is possible without "letting go", allowing vulnerablility, at least occasionally in session with T. And if true connection with T is a means of learning, in session and eventually in life, its ok to experience our emotions and not control them but learn to deal with them... then in this case I would say its a bad thing..... its the least that ties us to the stake in the ground of the past.

Originally Posted by Goingtogetthere

I've tried it out. And it works for me. LOL! My therapist does not stop my therapy. I tell her when I'm through. So, I do believe I'm in control and connected to my therapist.

Seriously...no time limit....can I get her number? LOL

Thank you all for your input...my head is spinning, I love conversations like this...they are so helpful to me