[SecretGarden]

It has been a long week.... and I am looking forward to tomorrow's session. I think that we are working things through or I sure hope so. Confrontation and enlightenment has been thick with me for the last week particularly and the last month. I feel fortunate that I have been able to go 3 weeks in a row, that he has allowed this... atypical. He knows the need is there.

I feel that this has been such a struggle and I think that this is probably a valid part of my journey but I am still so angry. I am unsure if I am angry with him or with myself or my past or what the heck.... but this hurts. I do not wish to alienate him but my pain is deep. I feel like I need to let him know I am angry... like he doesn't know it...haha... but also the week has been so painful I feel like I need to protect myself from further shell shock.

Words of wisdom?.... I have been angry like forever... maybe from birth... I really would like to quit being angry.... Tired...

((Secretgarden)) I know how you feel, I have no words of value to add but know how difficult anger is.

[sunrise]

SecretGarden, I flunked how to be angry way back when they covered that in school or whenever we were supposed to learn it, so I've no words of wisdom there. But at least you recognize you have a need to deal with this.

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I feel like I need to let him know I am angry.... also the week has been so painful I feel like I need to protect myself from further shell shock

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Can you tell him this? Maybe just let him know you are angry but also let him no you are too fragile right now to deal with it? This way you at least get the subject out on the table, with a promise to return to it when you are able. ((((hugs))))

[RACEKA]

I don't feel anger either.

((((((((((( SecretGarden )))))))))))

I hope your session tomorrow is a great and helpful session.

You are right... you have been angry from birth because anger is a normal valid emotion . I certainly admire how hard you have been and are working on this!

I wish I could trade you: I'll take some of your anger so you could be more comfortable... for some 'hang tough' lessons?

Will be thinking of you tomorrow. I hope everything goes well. It's about time you got some deserved smooth sailing...



ECHOES
xoxoxo

[SecretGarden]

Thank you all. I think finally I have let it all out... I am exhausted and will hope to rest well tonight.

I will try to let him know what I need tomorrow and clarify some things.

I suppose I have felt so angry off and on for so long here it amazes me that others do not feel anger. I do not know if that is a blocking mechanism or if others are at peace....or ? My goal is to work a negotiation. I think that when I think of a successful departure to this life one of the things is to be at peace. That would be such a victory I think... or to be able to be angry and feel ok with that too really. I never know if my anger is appropriate and like somewhere there should be a volume knob.... lol... If only we could be so lucky.

I have almost made it ... what a long long week.

Thanks for the beautiful sail painting Echoes. I truly love it and it makes me smile...in a good way.

[Perna]

I know I would get most angry when I was afraid or "stuck" and/or going to give up; it gave me energy. Sometimes I felt like a drowning person just thrashing in the water but usually I'd get "noticed" and eventually someone would come help :-) Hope your session today helps.

[lauren_helene]

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SecretGarden said:

I suppose I have felt so angry off and on for so long here it amazes me that others do not feel anger. I do not know if that is a blocking mechanism or if others are at peace..

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Oh, I totally get you with this comment. I think you mean others out IRL? I have been angry all of my life as well. I finally let that out with my T last week with that whole interrogation session and email message afterwards.

Here is what I've learned since then. Maybe this will help you too.

Instead of analyzing him, I finally journaled a lot about me and how I feel in the session and out of the session (sadness, anxiety, depression, acceptance, rejection).

Then I put down my perceptions of what I thought brings on these feelings of both good and bad (T being inconsistent, unclear, accepting, rejecting) and what behaviors these feelings this lead to. (internet addiction, calling/faxing/emailing between sessions, taking it out on my husband etc.)

I tried to get to the root cause and I did (unmet emotional needs from my dad and a pattern of finding men that have the same unavailable or unattainable qualities he has. My examples were not about my therapist but rather the people in my life instead.

So far, the obsessing about my therapist and the sessions have quieted. I feel more in control of my emotions. I talked this over with him this week and said "maybe it is better to feel the pain between sessions" and he thought it was because this is what it makes a client do eventually...now I'm not saying that this method is great for you or anyone here.

But, it is helping me now. Now that I've embraced it rather than fight it kicking and screaming (as I did before). My feelings for him are returning to liking him as a therapist and respecting him and the process.

Part of this new healing also includes you Secret and everyone here. Your warm wishes, insights, struggles, victories, challenging questions etc. I'm starting to believe that we can do this together.

[SecretGarden]

Funny you would say that....

I have spent alot of time this week thinking of my first therapist. He rescued me. Today my T said that that pdoc pulled me out as I was drowning. Tis true. My child was drowning. When I get this way ... I regress and my child wants to be pulled out.

My T today said that my note asking him not to abandon me was confusing as we talked of meds and of his seeing me more often. At least we are for now. What he had said is that I will never do something (allow a friend to visit from Canada 1000's of miles away) and I felt like he feels I will never progress... hopeless.

Today he read me a note he wrote my first pdoc (FIFTEEN years ago).... and much of it is still true... or all that he said. I have to admit it. I am a challenge to him. I am a challenge to me....an obstinate cuss.

He says that he keeps separate so that I do not pull him down... in the water. This is necessary I know. He also talks that his life is fine...mine is not.

I have taken my first Lamictal pill....

I do not know what to do with all of this but I am trying to get the child to stay away as she is feeling all of this hopelessness. I need the adult to come out and address all of this and work to make forward movement.

My obfuscation... as he says.... takes over.... I am trying to sort it all out.

I read another post of yours that said...your T told you ... THis is not true. I am not sure how that feels... That would make me feel bad or little but I know in many ways that that is true... It is NOT true.

He says we are not on the same team. On the surface we are but unconsciously we are on opposing sides. He saw in his note to my first pdoc that I would be a challenge to any pdoc.

How do I accept this within myself Perna.... and how do I get to the other side?

He says seeing it is powerful and I know that. I think that is what I have been doing ....seeing it...moreso recently.

What a wasted life....

Did you have to get to the other side and how did you get there? I know our journies are different but I appreciate other's experiences. How can I be more o.k. with this?

[Hopefull]

I am going to share some of my frustration with my T next week. I wrote a one page letter. I have discovered that I love to write letters. As for the fear of abandonment reference, I told my T that she is not allowed to leave me. I like to try to tell my inner child that I will never leave her. Do you ever tell your child that you will not leave him/her. He/she probably needs to hear that repeatedly and would like to be reminded that the adult you can protect him/her. I read a cool book about inner-child work and did some of the activities in the book. As of yet, my T doesn' t know about this yet.

I hope things work out for you in your journey.

[sunrise]

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almeda24fan said:
So far, the obsessing about my therapist and the sessions have quieted. I feel more in control of my emotions.... Now that I've embraced it rather than fight it kicking and screaming (as I did before). My feelings for him are returning to liking him as a therapist and respecting him and the process.

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That is so great to read that from you almedafan! Sounds like you are making lots of progress. It must feel great to have had the obsession subside. It's interesting how some of us struggle to control our emotions, as you wrote, and some of us (moi) struggle to loosen up our control and let ourselves feel things.

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I like to try to tell my inner child that I will never leave her. Do you ever tell your child that you will not leave him/her. He/she probably needs to hear that repeatedly and would like to be reminded that the adult you can protect him/her.

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Hopeful, this was something my T taught me how to do very early in our therapy, how to use my adult ego state to "rescue" and take care of a younger, little girl ego state of mine. It was very powerful to know I could do this. When bad memories of my childhood were hounding me, I would just step into the memories with my little girl and rescue her. It became very easy for me to do and would instantly relieve the trauma memories.

This is a little blurb which describes this therapeutic technique:
Phillips and Frederick (1995) and Frederick and McNeal (1998) have also applied these techniques successfully in work with individuals who suffer from a wide range of posttraumatic and dissociative difficulties. In addition, they have emphasized the use of mature ego states to assist in nurturing younger, less developed self-parts. These authors have also advanced the possibility of encouraging or completing the introjection of positive models of mature functioning in the patient's current life as well as identifying and reclaiming nurturing figures from past times marked by traumatic stress (Frederick & Kim, 1993). These and other self-interactive strategies can assist clients in significantly enhancing their capacities for self-nurturing.
(quote is from this article )

[lauren_helene]

Thanks Sunrise!

Have been thinking of you.

This is such a rough time for you, SecretGarden.

I am sorry and I wish I had words of wisdom for you and could help you feel better.

I want so bad for the Lamactil to work wonderfully for you!

and that you and the child within you can soar together



ECHOES

[SecretGarden]

Thank you Almeda

Yes I mean IRL. Your post is so kind and uplifting. I think that I was doing alot of that sorting prior to my visit yesterday and I will continue to but have not put it down in writing. That might assist.... and organize.

Yesterday was like being hit between the eyes. He told me I have not changed in 15 years and read out loud a report he had written to my orig pdoc at that time. Many core issues are the same and I know I am difficult..but it makes me feel like a piece of crapola really.

I am reaching out to family....certain ones... this weekend as I need support. I came home last night and the lights blew at 630 and my phone was out of gas...just enough gas to invite myself to my sisters for Sunday.

My doc says that his life is good and advancing but for 15 years.. here I am. I have worked hard really and created many changes but they are unaccounted for.

I am mad at him for putting me down so and while I am already low. It seems rather mean but maybe that is what it takes for me to create change. He must think I am strong but I sure do not feel it. I feel weak but pissed off and hopeless. Sorry. Now that I got that out... I can start trudging up the hill again... I hope.

Thanks for listening. I think of changing docs....but we have been through so much but that is mean....... Why would a person care to live after being told that after working so hard. And what does that say about him? m

Yes... focusing on me. Took my first Lamictal yesterday. Hope that meds will assist. I want to be successful... really I do though that is part of what is up for questioning.

[SecretGarden]

I think that my pdoc feels that my child is too present. My first pdoc pulled out my drowning child...and that is where I go when vulnerable or hit in the gut. I am trying to get the adult to come up to the plate.

Thanks hopefull. I wish you well too in your journey.

I did some work via TV shows and book by John Bradshaw. He has done some excellent work with the child within. I actually bought myself a bear at that time of my life... It is well worn by now...and much loved.

[Perna]

You have to work with both the child and the adult. They're both there in "equal" measure but the adult is an adult so "naturally" able to help with the child somewhat, just by virtue of living to be X years old and being an adult. We have a lot of built-in attributes and experiences that go into making us an adult that we don't even think about and poo-poo, kind of like when someone compliments us, how we look or what we're wearing and we say, "Oh, it's nothing!" We don't even hear the compliment. There are a zillion things about us as adults that we don't notice or realize we have/use daily.

I was trying to get across to my T how much "trouble" I could get into in my head no matter what I was doing or where I was. She had difficulty understanding that and said something about the kitchen, how she didn't think I could get into trouble there. Well, a week or so later I decided to make "Bisquick Biscuit Baskets" :-) and it turned out working with the dough was very sticky and gooey and I don't like sticky and gooey and had the sudden wish for "my mommy" to get it off and clean it up, etc. :-) Well, the next thought was that my stepmother was right that moment having an MRI/CT scan for neurological reasons and I was a bit worried about that (but had conveniently forgotten it was taking place until that moment) so I had to "reject" that mother as unavailable so went to my "real" mother who died when I was 3 of a brain tumor. Well, naturally the next thought I had was that if MRI's/CT scanners had existed when she was sick, she might not have died, etc. but I was stuck with "uh oh, mommy is dead" and I still had the darn Bisquick all over my hands and flour all over, etc. and I started to cry because now what am I supposed to do? My thinking flashed to my T (not there, of course :-) and I happened to remember her saying the "nothing bad can happen to you in the kitchen?!" and that "other" conversation between two adults saved me as I was able to laugh a little bit since obviously I could get in trouble in the kitchen but it was an unlikely trouble, no way my T or I could have predicted this particular trouble. But the adult me was able to be "reminded" of her existance (I was only 52 :-) and get practical and clean some of the mess up and comfort the child that it was okay, she was "learning" and things don't always go well the first time (a big issue with me and my stepmother; she could do just about anything well and I had no experience so the "comparison" when I was asked to do something or tried to do something was very disappointing, frustrating and painful; she and I never allowed me to be a "beginner"). But I cheered up even further when I realized I'd just lived through a good "conversation piece" for the next therapy session.

It's often like that carnival ride, "The Whip"? There's going to be too fast swings through feelings and fear and too much going on but it's not all that. Like with movies, there's quieter times and humor and new sections coming in, things happening all the time in a story, a complete circle/ride, whether we see it or not. Look for some of the other pieces you aren't seeing; they're there.

One thing that helped me with my T at the first, before I could "connect" with her was picturing her sitting beside me instead of across from me. Imagining her sitting next to me, like a friend listening to what I had to say made it easier to say some things to her. Normally I'd picture her across from me like a teacher, but even as a "mentor" figure it allowed too much separation in my head. So, when I "wanted" to tell her something but was afraid, I'd picture her beside me and I'd be better able to talk to her for a moment. Usually her responses during that time were rewarding such that I'd be more willing to take the chance again to talk to her in that way. Over the years her consistency and care "worked" so I was able to trust her (and she, me).

I occasionally had trouble in the beginning with anger at my T because it felt like a me-over-here/she-over-there proposition. I hated having to deal with the loneliness and struggle to get "back" to where she was, back into communication. But over the years it gradually came to where I understood that it, the expression of anger, was all part of the same conversation, there was no "break;" my T wanted to understand with the same intensity what I was feeling and saying when I was angry with her as when we were "friends." She took my anger seriously and worked with it as hard as I did. The same began to be true when she would be angry or frustrated with me; I quit taking it as a failure or quite so personally and went beyond that to what she was trying to say to me or ways I could respond better, what I could learn from the experience so next time I could respond in a way that didn't bring out anger or frustration in the person.

When my stepmother was in the last 4-5 years of her life she got really senile and she'd call me up on the phone and we'd start talking and she'd comment on something and I'd give the "wrong" answer and she'd get angry and we'd get into a fight. She'd hang up but in a few minutes she'd call back, having forgotten we'd talked! She'd bring up the same issue and I literally got a "do-over" so I could practice tact or alternate ways of discussing the problem, see if I could solve whatever the difficulty between us was. It was a life changing experience and even went "backwards" in showing me that not all the problems she and I had when I was growing up were either real problems or my fault or even "mattered" now. It was very freeing.

[SecretGarden]

Perna.... I just wanted to tell you I really appreciate your time and thought put in to this. I will respond tomorrow. Thank you....

You teach me much.

I have taken to cursing my T out and telling him which objects I want to throw at him. He encourages this.

I know this may sound strange, but when I get mad, I get mad; however, when it comes to him, I have been afraid to let it out.

If I am angry with him during the week, I write a free association journal. It normally starts out cursing him out and calling him every name in the book, then describing the ways in which he made me angry.

I recently read one to him for the 1st time. It was incredibly difficult, liberating, terrifying, and safe all at the same time.

[SecretGarden]

Perna... I have worked hard this week through the sadness and anger and bewildermint and have found a way to get lots of work done and I am off this coming week. I hope to find a way to use this week well for my nourishment and regrowth. So far so good.

Thank you so for sharing your thoughtful experience of your mom's and your child and being able to find your adult within. I have these kind of thoughts but I am not sure how much of these I have shared but this gives me further opportunity for different corners of thought.

I do see myself often having conversations between my child and my adult. So I do find that they take care of each other. Sometimes I need to be reminded that I do have an adult in here ... emotionally and logically. I think that sometimes my child is the one trying to remind the adult to step up to the plate and the child also helps. They do help each other. It is not always equal depending on where my psyche is at the moment. I suppose that might correlate with the Whip to some degree. It is interesting to see what might be there that I do not see. I try to keep an eye out .... but yes...tis a game (or protection or adventure or.. avoidance?) of hide and seek sometimes and sometimes we care to play and other times we do not.

I used to look at the carpet of my first pdoc and the wall with this one. There are two places for me to sit now... one being a comfortable chair...or semi comfy (same as his) and the other a love seat.. not as comfy but closer. I went through a phase of wishing to sit in one when I was feeling more emotional and the other for when I wanted to move forward .... maybe the adult? I have even been known to switch chairs mid session. It is still confusing to me but I think I was trying to be two different parts... like my child and my adult. The couch I think is my adult. The other is a combo of sorts. More tears there at least.

I know that in time rather than looking at the wall or the rug that I would wish that I had been looking eyeball to eyeball to see what the reaction was...or to connect on a truer basis..somehow.

Anger... I have expressed it in the past. He is expressing it now or at least that is how I experience it. I am sure that I hear more than is expressed. My perceptors are off and my fear is up. I think I would like to express some of my anger now...but perhaps I now feel like I need to ask for permission. I feel the anger but I am unsure if I am able to express it right now. I suppose (though I have in the past) I do not feel safe right now. I have always had trust issues. I think I have trusted my therapists more than anyone....

I enjoyed your story about your step-mom but would welcome more of your thoughts ... of do overs. I wish I had a few of those... I also feel that sometimes the obfuscation that is so prevalent to me in my sessions and afterwards... lead to the opportunities for do overs...though the pdoc knows the truth through the repeated stories.... and different perceptions.

I am need some work on the anger things...

[SecretGarden]

I am glad that you are able to express your anger as part of your therapy Pink and that that is encouraged. I am glad you also feel safe. :-)

[MissCharlotte]

I know my T wants me to get angry with him but I have not yet been able to do so. I think this is a trust issue and the fact that I am not in touch with my anger any more than I am in touch with my tears. I know I have a lot of anger buried deep inside of me and it is so difficult to access. I think that when we cannot express our anger it does come out in other ways, like misdirected at another person, eating too much, driving like a she-devil (me LOL) yelling at the kids and so on. I have not yet reached the place in my therapy where I am working on this consciously with T. By the way, I study a pattern on a decorative rug hanging on the wall behind T and get annoyed at his bookshelf because there is a book placed in the wrong direction. ( A little OCD.....)

[SecretGarden]

Does that book in the wrong direction interfere with your therapy? LOL.

Might like to bring that up.... lol

P.S. I eat.... and eat and eat.... I do not self harm perse (per se or persay) but I think that my eating is swallowing my anger.

There was a time when my T had a teeny frog...like an earth frog that he had for a few weeks.... he kept it on his chair arm. I was jealous of that idiot inanimate object. Ticked me off and he seemed to enjoy that.

[MissCharlotte]

funny you should mention it but it has been driving me crazy. I have not brought it up yet, but will one of these days when I just march into his office and go right to the shelf and set the book in the right direction. LMAO.........

[SecretGarden]

Go for it.

[SecretGarden]

Might he have it that way on purpose....as a test?