[rainbow8]

I'm sorry this is so long!

My T and I have a complicated history about emailing. Six years ago when I first started seeing her, she let me email and she answered them all. At that time my emails were pretty short. I like to write and was happy with T's responses.

I'm not sure when it changed. She wrote briefer replies to my longer emails and I became disappointed. We discussed it and decided she wouldn't answer my emails but I could still write as much as I wanted to. I don't think I was too happy with that. At one time, T said I could write one email per week. Then she tried not emailing me back at all. We discussed these various changes first.

When my husband become sick, T started answering all my emails again. Then later it turned into a routine of my writing a lot the day of or after my session to process it. T would answer briefly once during the week. I accepted that. In addition, I would sometimes send her photos I took of my family or of my artwork. She always said she enjoyed seeing them. I was happy with the email situation.

A couple of months ago my T brought up the suggestion of journaling instead of emailing her to process my session. Actually, another time in the past she tried to encourage me to stop emailing her but I couldn't keep it up. I tried again and could do it for one week, but it's very hard for me to go the whole week. I seem to need the connection, and the brief email from her. I've bought it up in every session, and T keeps telling me I can still email her, that she only said to be curious about journaling instead. I don't like journaling. I used to, before computers. I tell so much on PC, I'm afraid to do that in a blog or online diary. One place is enough.

I know T wants me to stop. She told me that I'm her only client who emails except for scheduling. When I asked if she wanted me to stop emailing, she said "yes." She keeps bringing up that the goal is for me to be able to process my sessions by myself, and to eventually be able to quit seeing her. She also said that when I email about my session, and want to talk about what I wrote ( she never brings up anything I email about in session), I'm not in the present with her. She wants me to be there with her in the session. How I feel right then, and how my body feels. To be present.

At the same time she says I can still email! So I'm confused! I emailed this week how I feel, and she wrote that we will discuss it again. I wrote that everything she does for me is because I'm her JOB. I know that's the way it's supposed to be, but I don't understand something. Who says the rules of therapy can't be changed? You aren't allowed to have a romantic or physical relationship with your T, but what is wrong with an email exchange? It doesn't make me MORE attached to her. I think it makes it less. I email and she answers once briefly. She rarely addresses any therapy concerns anyway in her email back, so what is the big deal? What's wrong with sending her photos? I don't email every day. It's NOT excessive.

I feel very hurt by her attitude. I know she's not abandoning me, and she cares very much, but this time I can't get around the thoughts "you don't want me" and "I'm just your job." I like to listen to my T so in spite of her repeatedly saying she never said I can't email, I know she doesn't want me to. We rarely have ruptures, but this is a big deal to me, and it seems like she doesn't understand.

It's not really about emailing but about our relationship. It's not what I thought it was. She's always encouraged my real relationships, and I have been doing much better in my life. I just don't want to give up the closeness to my T.

She wants you to do this for you. She's allowing you to reach the place where you can process on your own between sessions and not need that contact between sessions. She's chosen that path of not dictating that to you, but instead allowing you to reach that place on your own. But you DO rely on those emails and they DO make you more attached to her. I know you don't think so, but you have only on rare occasions been able to delay that gratification of contact between sessions.

[rainbow8]

Originally Posted by lolagrace

She wants you to do this for you. She's allowing you to reach the place where you can process on your own between sessions and not need that contact between sessions. She's chosen that path of not dictating that to you, but instead allowing you to reach that place on your own. But you DO rely on those emails and they DO make you more attached to her. I know you don't think so, but you have only on rare occasions been able to delay that gratification of contact between sessions.

You're right. I'm not ready to stop being attached to her. I never resolved my attachment issues. I went from one T to another. That's not going to happen this time. So if my T isn't forcing me and I'm not ready, that's the way it is so maybe I should just accept it for now. I don't ask to hold her hand, and stopping that came entirely from me. I just don't have the same feeling about emailing so I suppose that means I'm not ready to stop yet.

[growlycat]

Idea?
Maybe propose to T that you do it her way one week (no email), and your way the next week. Try for a few months and see how it goes?

[rainbow8]

Originally Posted by growlycat

Idea?
Maybe propose to T that you do it her way one week (no email), and your way the next week. Try for a few months and see how it goes?

Thank you. That could work. But, and I realize I may be in denial of reality, WHY can't I keep going the way I have been? Why do I have to stop emailing? I can't make her reply, but why do I have to stop? Why can't I continue until therapy ends? Why does my T want to stop her 2 line replies? She just writes something generic anyway! I'm busy with getting my life in order, and have many interests. What is the big deal about giving up email before she retires, dies, or moves away? I'll probably die first anyway. It's not like I have years and years ahead of me! Well, I might but I doubt it.

Originally Posted by rainbow8

Thank you. That could work. But, and I realize I may be in denial of reality, WHY can't I keep going the way I have been? Why do I have to stop emailing? I can't make her reply, but why do I have to stop? Why can't I continue until therapy ends? Why does my T want to stop her 2 line replies? She just writes something generic anyway! I'm busy with getting my life in order, and have many interests. What is the big deal about giving up email until she retires, dies, or moves away? I'll probably die first anyway. It's not like I have years and years ahead of me! Well, I might but I doubt it.

Okay, please don't take this the wrong way; I say it affectionately, but this response sounds like the response of a small child -- like it comes from a very young place. All the "why's". Remember that phase your kids went through -- wanting it their way, not wanting change, and a bit petulantly stomping their feet and saying "that's not fair! I hate you!" I really, really don't mean that as an insult, but since you do that kind of work in therapy, perhaps your adult Rainbow needs to sit down and talk to this young, angry Rainbow. Maybe the adult Rainbow needs to run the show on this one? Just throwing that out there for your consideration. Toss it away if I'm way off base and I very well might be.

[BayBrony]

My T talks a lot about the "space between". Admittedly I need and get a lot more contact than you , but there are still compromises we need to make (,for example we discuss my emails in session unless I request a response in a special situation. And I can text as much as I want as long as I can tolerate not always getting a response or even a response that day). My T says dealing with the frantic need for her without it being met allows me to start to explore and dispute the narrative in my head that says she does not love me. The space between contact is where deep work happens. Now, I only know what you post here of your life, but I know for me there is truth to that as long as I get enough contact that I can maintain our connection.

[JaneTennison1]

If it's not a big deal then why do you feel the need to do it? I understand the desire because I had it with ex T all the time. I wanted her to stay present in my life and for me to stay present in hers. I guess my question would be that if she doesn't reply to what you say in email or in person, why say it at all? Why do you need her to hear it to feel contained?

I agree with lolagrace. And hugs to you, Rainbow! Y'know, I've had to sit down with 15 (my inner 15 year old) on more than one occasion and have talks with her when she's started her foot-stomping about different things. I admit it seems weird the first time. But it gets more natural.

Also I'm thinking when you said "I don't ask to hold her hand, and stopping that came entirely from me." isn't this progress, and an indication that the same thing will happen with the emails when you're ready? You've dealt with a lot and it takes us as long as it takes us, I don't mean to sound trite by saying that, but everyone has their own timelines on stuff.

I may not be making sense this morning sorry if I'm rambling.

ETA a PS: I don't know why I never asked her about it but - one time awhile back I asked t "Why can't I leave you alone between sessions?" (which was a lot like what you said, processing of a session, that I'd send her usually a couple hours afterward.) Her answer? She laughed!! It wasn't a mean laugh, it felt to me a whole lot like one of those "I recognize myself in you" kind of laughs, so I let it go and did not ask her either why she laughed or to actually answer the question.

[velcro003]

I honestly think it is you that keeps bringing this email issue up over and over again with your T, therefore making it a bigger problem than it is? I could be WAY off base, and please tell me if I am.

I email my T as well, and sometimes it is a few hours after session, or the next day--like you I process by writing, and my T realizes that. Or sometimes I just am having a hard time, so I email her to call me...etc. My T is different in that I think she lets other clients email her as well, and she usually responds back to what I write. Every once in awhile she doesn't, and she apologizes, but its usually because life happened, which she is always careful to tell me when I freak out that I am contacting her too much.

Sorry--didn't mean to go on a tangent. If e-mailing her after each session to process what you talked about works, and she keeps saying she doesn't want you to stop....then is there a problem? The only thing I wonder about, is your disappointment if she doesn't reply, or not write enough in response. That is where I can see where she might think its not helpful to you, because it keeps you stuck in that loop.

[unaluna]

Originally Posted by lolagrace

Okay, please don't take this the wrong way; I say it affectionately, but this response sounds like the response of a small child -- like it comes from a very young place. All the "why's". Remember that phase your kids went through -- wanting it their way, not wanting change, and a bit petulantly stomping their feet and saying "that's not fair! I hate you!" I really, really don't mean that as an insult, but since you do that kind of work in therapy, perhaps your adult Rainbow needs to sit down and talk to this young, angry Rainbow. Maybe the adult Rainbow needs to run the show on this one? Just throwing that out there for your consideration. Toss it away if I'm way off base and I very well might be.

OR maybe - young rainbow is still whining because she still hasn't gotten enough. I don't like (I've done it too) that we are willing to accept crumbs really - "just let me love you, you don't even have to love me back." That's what the emailing sounds like to me - let me love you, and give me enough of a response that I can pretend to myself that you love me too. I will do this instead of changing, instead of facing that emptiness. T is saying, no deal. We need to face that moment of emptiness. Face whatever is in it.

It's kinda chicken or the egg - does the emptiness fade when we've gotten enough?

[bounceback]

Just throwing this out there. She wants you to learn to self-soothe. That is the goal of a lot of therapists I had. Wouldn't it be better to learn how to do it now rather than wait until she retires, gets a different job, has an accident etc? You can do this. I know you can. You have demonstrated in a lot of ways that you are emotionally and mentally strong. It will be hard at first. Each day you don't email congratulate yourself. You will feel better about yourself also knowing that you are stronger than you think. What would you do if she retired? She is actually helping you with your attachment issues by trying to teach you not to depend on others to help you feel okay about yourself.

[atisketatasket]

I don't have anything to say on the email topic that someone hasn't already said. But I wonder why you feel you have to journal online? You could buy a notebook and use that. If I were journaling, I would do it that way. I find handwritten words much more satisfying than email words on a screen.

Originally Posted by atisketatasket

I don't have anything to say on the email topic that someone hasn't already said. But I wonder why you feel you have to journal online? You could buy a notebook and use that. If I were journaling, I would do it that way. I find handwritten words much more satisfying than email words on a screen.

I absolutely agree with this! I have 2 boxes of spiral notebook journals going back to the beginning of therapy in October of 2011 - one box is specifically dream journals, the other is everything-else journals. I buy spiral notebooks every fall during the back to school sales when you can get 10 for $1, I usually buy 20 at a time. It is absolutely fascinating to me to go back and read that very first journal - I sounded SO young!! And oh so stubborn. (When I think I'm stubborn now, all I have to do is go back and read that first journal to see how far I've come!) Another plus to hand-written journals is you can draw pictures in them, or color in them, or put stickers in them when the mood strikes.

[BayBrony]

Originally Posted by unaluna

OR maybe - young rainbow is still whining because she still hasn't gotten enough. I don't like (I've done it too) that we are willing to accept crumbs really - "just let me love you, you don't even have to love me back." That's what the emailing sounds like to me - let me love you, and give me enough of a response that I can pretend to myself that you love me too. I will do this instead of changing, instead of facing that emptiness. T is saying, no deal. We need to face that moment of emptiness. Face whatever is in it.

It's kinda chicken or the egg - does the emptiness fade when we've gotten enough?

I would say yes the emptiness fades. But only if we truly grieve what you missed / lost, and willingly accept something else in its place. Like I have dental prosthetics which are amazing and far superior to my natural teeth which were stripped of enamel. But before u could get them I had to have my natural teeth extracted and let the surgery site heal. The implants needed a well healed place to.take root.

Likewise I think we never really absorb anything Intl that empty space until the wound is healed. My T pointed out on Friday that while I am now willing to acknowledge that she is telling the truth when she says she loves me I then say something to the effect of " but I'm still worthless because that's not the same as your parents loving you!!"

She says when I heal I will be ready to accept and acknowledge that they didn't love me, and I will stop making that wound so "unique" that no other love can fill it. The world, she says and I agree, is overflowing with love. There is more than enough love to fill me up, but it needs a healed, tended place to root itself

[rainbow8]

Originally Posted by lolagrace

Okay, please don't take this the wrong way; I say it affectionately, but this response sounds like the response of a small child -- like it comes from a very young place. All the "why's". Remember that phase your kids went through -- wanting it their way, not wanting change, and a bit petulantly stomping their feet and saying "that's not fair! I hate you!" I really, really don't mean that as an insult, but since you do that kind of work in therapy, perhaps your adult Rainbow needs to sit down and talk to this young, angry Rainbow. Maybe the adult Rainbow needs to run the show on this one? Just throwing that out there for your consideration. Toss it away if I'm way off base and I very well might be.

I appreciate all the replies and will answer each separately this time.

lola: I'm smiling because your responses are usually accurate even when I don't like them. I realize there is an angry child part, as well as one who is hurt. You're not off base at all. But there is also a part who doesn't understand the reasoning behind the necessity to stop the emailing. That part honestly believes it's okay to have that kind of relationship with my T. The younger parts WANT it and are protesting, but the older part says "why not?" in a curious way. Probably my adult Self does know it's best to pull away from my T, but she's not ready to disregard the other parts. But, yes. the child part is still very attached to T. At my last session, we had to stop and I said in that whiny voice "It's not fair! We started 3 minutes late." Which was true but the next client was waiting. So T repeated "it's not fair" and I kept talking on the way to the door. Life isn't fair. My adult Self knows that, and knows maybe my T is right. If something happened to her now, I'd be stuck with wanting those emails. But what about real life? We don't have to deal with tragedy until it comes. We don't stop communicating with someone or loving them because they might die. I don't understand why therapy is different.

[Cinnamon_Stick]

I agree with someone else that your T is trying to teach you how to self soothe. Go with it and have her help you. I was not taught by my T to self soothe and then she announced she was leaving and now she is gone and I have no clue how to self soothe. I really wish my T had done with me what yours is trying to do. Try to see it as a good thing instead of a curse or something. Trust me when I say it's rougher to do it without her when you are so attached and trying to do it when you are dealing with unbearable grief as I am. You are lucky and I hope you come to see that.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[rainbow8]

Originally Posted by BayBrony

My T talks a lot about the "space between". Admittedly I need and get a lot more contact than you , but there are still compromises we need to make (,for example we discuss my emails in session unless I request a response in a special situation. And I can text as much as I want as long as I can tolerate not always getting a response or even a response that day). My T says dealing with the frantic need for her without it being met allows me to start to explore and dispute the narrative in my head that says she does not love me. The space between contact is where deep work happens. Now, I only know what you post here of your life, but I know for me there is truth to that as long as I get enough contact that I can maintain our connection.

I like your T's way of doing therapy very much! My T is similar, as we've noted before, I think. I have finally internalized that my T cares for/loves me even with no contact between sessions, but I still feel unsettled. My emailing her and getting one brief response is enough for me but I still need it, or feel like I need it. I like the concept of "space between." I know my T would too though she's never used it with me. I have to keep working on it. Thank you for sharing your experience.

[BayBrony]

Originally Posted by rainbow8

I appreciate all the replies and will answer each separately this time.

lola: I'm smiling because your responses are usually accurate even when I don't like them. I realize there is an angry child part, as well as one who is hurt. You're not off base at all. But there is also a part who doesn't understand the reasoning behind the necessity to stop the emailing. That part honestly believes it's okay to have that kind of relationship with my T. The younger parts WANT it and are protesting, but the older part says "why not?" in a curious way. Probably my adult Self does know it's best to pull away from my T, but she's not ready to disregard the other parts. But, yes. the child part is still very attached to T. At my last session, we had to stop and I said in that whiny voice "It's not fair! We started 3 minutes late." Which was true but the next client was waiting. So T repeated "it's not fair" and I kept talking on the way to the door. Life isn't fair. My adult Self knows that, and knows maybe my T is right. If something happened to her now, I'd be stuck with wanting those emails. But what about real life? We don't have to deal with tragedy until it comes. We don't stop communicating with someone or loving them because they might die. I don't understand why therapy is different.

Its different because in therapy we are supposed to be learning and growing. That's the point.
My T likens it to having to say "no" to her sons when she has to say "no" to me or tell me to try something on my own. Her younger son is very sensitive ( he's 12 and still asks her to lie down with him and read him stories before bed when he has had a hard day). If he had his way always shed ALWAYS be helping him. She says it hurts to say no especially if he gets emotional but its her job to help him learn to BE AT PEACE in the world and that means learning how to be both depend any AND independent. Its her job as a parent even though its emotionally tough on both of them. And it's her job as a T to help me learn so I can be at peace also. Which means sometimes doing hard stuff

[rainbow8]

Originally Posted by JaneTennison1

If it's not a big deal then why do you feel the need to do it? I understand the desire because I had it with ex T all the time. I wanted her to stay present in my life and for me to stay present in hers. I guess my question would be that if she doesn't reply to what you say in email or in person, why say it at all? Why do you need her to hear it to feel contained?

I don't know, Jane. I just know that usually I want my T to know what I'm feeling right after my session. Or to send her a photo or a few. She responds to positive things, like "I love your painting", or "the photos are great", and says to have a good weekend. Yes, I do want her in my life and me in her life. That's it in a nutshell. Thank you! The brief email on her part does that for me even more than the comments I don't get about my session.

[rainbow8]

Originally Posted by artemis-within

I agree with lolagrace. And hugs to you, Rainbow! Y'know, I've had to sit down with 15 (my inner 15 year old) on more than one occasion and have talks with her when she's started her foot-stomping about different things. I admit it seems weird the first time. But it gets more natural.

Also I'm thinking when you said "I don't ask to hold her hand, and stopping that came entirely from me." isn't this progress, and an indication that the same thing will happen with the emails when you're ready? You've dealt with a lot and it takes us as long as it takes us, I don't mean to sound trite by saying that, but everyone has their own timelines on stuff.

I may not be making sense this morning sorry if I'm rambling.

ETA a PS: I don't know why I never asked her about it but - one time awhile back I asked t "Why can't I leave you alone between sessions?" (which was a lot like what you said, processing of a session, that I'd send her usually a couple hours afterward.) Her answer? She laughed!! It wasn't a mean laugh, it felt to me a whole lot like one of those "I recognize myself in you" kind of laughs, so I let it go and did not ask her either why she laughed or to actually answer the question.

Thanks, Artemis. We used to do IFS a lot in my sessions so I don't think it's at all weird to talk to my parts! I am not sure I can give up the emailing like I did holding Ts hand because the emailing is between sessions. I know you know that. I'm just repeating it for my sake too. It would be great if I could get to that point on my own and explain to the whiny parts that it's really best this way. The hurt part is a problem though. She feels it deeply, that T loves her, but the reality of therapy gets in the way I guess.

[unaluna]

Just the way people here are reacting to you today is so different than from say two years ago? I don't know if that's on you or on us or on all of us, but it is YUGE (ptooey!). Progress wise I mean.

[rainbow8]

Originally Posted by unaluna

Just the way people here are reacting to you today is so different than from say two years ago? I don't know if that's on you or on us or on all of us, but it is YUGE (ptooey!). Progress wise I mean.

I just have to say this. I love ya, unaluna!! You get me. More when I respond to your other post.

[scorpiosis37]

I can definitely empathize with the desire to email T between sessions in order to maintain that closeness. I know everyone is different but, in my experience, the only way to grow and learn to self-soothe is to simply DO it-- even when it's hard. When my T went on medical leave for a few months with no contact, that's when I had to learn to be okay without any reassurance or support from T. It wasn't planned and there wasn't any warning. It just happened. Going 2 months without contact from her taught me to rely on myself, and showed me that the world didn't end when I couldn't contact my T. Now that she is retired, we text maybe every two weeks and see each other once or twice a month. Now that I'm used to it, i almost don't recognize the "old" me who struggled to wait in between weekly sessions. I will say, though, that the change would have been easier if I had chosen to do it gradually, before my T's health "made" it happen. That's why I would really encourage you to try to do it now. You really will feel more self-reliant and confident if you initiate the change and take ownership of it. I'm so much happier now that I've taken the reigns and no longer feel the need for my T. I think you might feel the same way if you start making yourself self-soothe and realize that you can do it. You've made so much progress over the last couple of years, I really think you're ready to stop emailing between sessions. Making these transitions slowly and gradually will be so much easier than going cold turkey the day you "have" to quit. It will also give you the chance to be in charge of the process, rather than feeling like it is happening to you, which could make you feel out of control.

[LonesomeTonight]

Originally Posted by BayBrony

Its different because in therapy we are supposed to be learning and growing. That's the point.
My T likens it to having to say "no" to her sons when she has to say "no" to me or tell me to try something on my own. Her younger son is very sensitive ( he's 12 and still asks her to lie down with him and read him stories before bed when he has had a hard day). If he had his way always shed ALWAYS be helping him. She says it hurts to say no especially if he gets emotional but its her job to help him learn to BE AT PEACE in the world and that means learning how to be both depend any AND independent. Its her job as a parent even though its emotionally tough on both of them. And it's her job as a T to help me learn so I can be at peace also. Which means sometimes doing hard stuff

This reminds me of what my marriage counselor has said about his kids (both teens now) and how that relates to some of my wants/needs regarding him (due to transference and stuff). He said at one point, when his daughter was younger and involved in an individual sport that required lots of practice, he would drop her off there, and she'd call a bit later, feeling anxious and wanting him to come get her. But he'd say no, that she had to talk to people there instead, because if he just came and got her then she wouldn't learn she could handle it on her own.

I know it's hard though--I'll often e-mail my T after a session, too, if I had some more thoughts. She used to not usually respond (that was kind of our agreement). And then a few times in a row, she did respond, just a few sentences, but still something. So then the next time, a couple weeks ago, I felt a bit weird about our session (like she was irritated with me), then sent her a couple long e-mails, partly about that, and partly about other things (including something with MC). Which she of course did not respond to, which made me upset and worried, so I waited a couple days, then texted her, to see if she was annoyed/tired of me/etc.. She was like, "I don't know what 'weird vibe' you were talking about during the session, and I often don't respond to e-mails, so that's nothing different." She didn't seem to get why I needed her to respond to one of *those* e-mails in particular. Which then made me feel like she didn't get me. But by the time of our next appointment, I had lots of other stuff unrelated to her that I needed to talk about, so we discussed it very briefly, then dropped it. But I chose not to e-mail her this week because I didn't like the wondering if she'd respond. So I get it...