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  #476  
Old Apr 05, 2017, 11:40 AM
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LonesomeTonight LonesomeTonight is online now
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Originally Posted by junkDNA View Post
This was the trap for me

I text ... T responds ... T cares
I text ... T does not respond ... T hates me
Yeah, I get in that trap, too. MC has been pretty reliable about responding to e-mails and texts (and doing so in a reasonable about of time) the past few months. It occurred to me that it's probably because he has more time, now that he's not taking care of his wife. (There was one e-mail last month that he responded to after midnight, and it made me wonder if, like his teenage kids are doing their own thing, if he's just there by himself and feeling sad and lonely. Though I get the sense he has lots of friends and is close to a couple of his siblings, though they're not local).

Realizing that also made me realize that, the times he said in the past that he was too busy to look at/respond to e-mails/texts for a couple days...he probably literally *was* too busy/had too much going on in his personal life, and it wasn't about me. Wish I could go back and tell the me of a year ago that...would have saved myself lots of anxiety. Of course, this could have a negative effect now, too--if I think he *does* have lots of time, and he doesn't respond, then that might bother me more...

Meanwhile, last night I sent my T an e-mail describing a fight H and I'd had when I got home from session that related to something we'd talked about. I have no idea if she'll respond, but since she'll be on vacation next week, it would be nice if she'd at least say *something*. With her, it's tough, because she'll respond to a few in a row (usually something very brief), but then I'll send her one about something that's really upsetting/stressing me, and she won't respond. (she did respond to a text from a few weeks ago about a fight with H when I was really upset...). I know she cares, but...
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  #477  
Old Apr 05, 2017, 11:55 AM
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Hi Dr. S, 6 hours to go. I love you. Can't wait to see you. Tired today.

I wonder how you are doing with getting ready to move to private practice... have you found a location yet, are you ready to do the move, are you excited or scared, are you going to have your own office or are you going to be in shared space, ... can't ask those questions. Can I give you something for your new space? Maybe I can ask you that question - I know what I want to give you, but that is pretty personal and I don't know how I would feel about seeing it or not seeing it. I want to give it to you though and since it is something I'll need to have made, I need to know if it is ok. It will be more expensive than I think would typically be allowable. It is not more than I can afford and it is much more about me than about you. If I was at all artistic, I could make it myself and then it wouldn't cost much.

With love,
me
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  #478  
Old Apr 05, 2017, 12:04 PM
awkwardlyyours awkwardlyyours is offline
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Originally Posted by Elio View Post

I wonder how you are doing with getting ready to move to private practice... have you found a location yet, are you ready to do the move, are you excited or scared, are you going to have your own office or are you going to be in shared space, ... can't ask those questions.
Why can't you ask these questions? It's up to her on whether or not to respond and how.

I ask current T everything related to her practice and a limited number of things related just to her (so, nothing to do with her family etc).

Sometimes she answers. Sometimes she'll give a vague non-response. Sometimes she'll do the "Why do you want to know?" thing and eventually respond fully or with a vague response.

But, any which way, all of it is okay to bring up.
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  #479  
Old Apr 05, 2017, 12:11 PM
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Originally Posted by junkDNA View Post
This was the trap for me

I text ... T responds ... T cares
I text ... T does not respond ... T hates me
***Disclaimer: these are the rational thoughts of a calmed mind***
Just believe... T doesn't hate me ... fed up, annoyed, angry, frustrated.... all the way to love me... yep... and even if she does hate me like I hate her at times... it will be just a moment in time that will pass... because she doesn't hate me... not in a permanent way.

T tells me that a lack of a reply doesn't mean I don't matter and that she doesn't care about me. I believe these things. I also believe, that she does it for my own good to help me try to build tolerance towards ambiguity and anxiety. That doesn't always make me feel good, in fact often I feel like ***** about it in the moment, and can feel angry towards her for doing it. Then I get past that and I start loving her for willingness to do what she feels is best for me regardless of what she is feeling/wanting for herself. That even means replying to me when she doesn't have much to say to the not replying when she thinks I can handle it or not responding to my bursts of anger/personal attacks. To not contacting me when she wants to just because she wants to.

If I assume that she is more than just a T... that she is a person behind the role, then she has the full range of emotions in this relationship as I do. And if I apply my understanding of that range of emotions, the closest I get to is parenting -- as a parent, it is so hard to balance support, helping, loving, and fostering independence. This gives me a huge amount of empathy and respect for my T; because I know as when I was parenting how hard it was to balance all of the different things.

*** irrational thoughts of a stressed mind***
go all over the map from feeling not loved, not important, guilty, a burden, too much, do needy, angry/hatred towards T.... and the list goes on... It is not easy in those moments to know the other stuff, to remember the other stuff. If it was, I wouldn't be in therapy in the first place LOL
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  #480  
Old Apr 05, 2017, 12:13 PM
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junkDNA junkDNA is offline
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Originally Posted by Elio View Post
***Disclaimer: these are the rational thoughts of a calmed mind***
Just believe... T doesn't hate me ... fed up, annoyed, angry, frustrated.... all the way to love me... yep... and even if she does hate me like I hate her at times... it will be just a moment in time that will pass... because she doesn't hate me... not in a permanent way.

T tells me that a lack of a reply doesn't mean I don't matter and that she doesn't care about me. I believe these things. I also believe, that she does it for my own good to help me try to build tolerance towards ambiguity and anxiety. That doesn't always make me feel good, in fact often I feel like ***** about it in the moment, and can feel angry towards her for doing it. Then I get past that and I start loving her for willingness to do what she feels is best for me regardless of what she is feeling/wanting for herself. That even means replying to me when she doesn't have much to say to the not replying when she thinks I can handle it or not responding to my bursts of anger/personal attacks. To not contacting me when she wants to just because she wants to.

If I assume that she is more than just a T... that she is a person behind the role, then she has the full range of emotions in this relationship as I do. And if I apply my understanding of that range of emotions, the closest I get to is parenting -- as a parent, it is so hard to balance support, helping, loving, and fostering independence. This gives me a huge amount of empathy and respect for my T; because I know as when I was parenting how hard it was to balance all of the different things.

*** irrational thoughts of a stressed mind***
go all over the map from feeling not loved, not important, guilty, a burden, too much, do needy, angry/hatred towards T.... and the list goes on... It is not easy in those moments to know the other stuff, to remember the other stuff. If it was, I wouldn't be in therapy in the first place LOL
I've jst basically stopped texting him. It's eliminated a lot of the the turmoil.i was.feeling
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  #481  
Old Apr 05, 2017, 12:17 PM
Elio Elio is offline
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Originally Posted by awkwardlyyours View Post
Why can't you ask these questions? It's up to her on whether or not to respond and how.

I ask current T everything related to her practice and a limited number of things related just to her (so, nothing to do with her family etc).

Sometimes she answers. Sometimes she'll give a vague non-response. Sometimes she'll do the "Why do you want to know?" thing and eventually respond fully or with a vague response.

But, any which way, all of it is okay to bring up.
One reason I feel like I can't ask those questions, that have been with me and growing now for a couple of months is that she is still 90+ days out before the move and may or may not even have started looking or even thinking about it. It is I that is obsessed with this stuff because it is a pending change and my lack of tolerance towards upcoming change. So I feel I can't ask because it is too soon to ask; even though the thoughts have been on my mind.

Maybe it would be good for her to know that it has been on my mind since the first of the year. I figure she probably already knows that the pending change is creating a low level anxiety for me. I do fall within a paradigm of behaviors and issues, after all.
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  #482  
Old Apr 05, 2017, 12:29 PM
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Dear T,

I suck. I probably ruined your day today by being the most depressing person on the planet. Sorry for looking glum and stuff... but you already know about my bipolar Dx, so you were probably expecting me to get depressed at some point anyway.

What I didn't tell you is that I cried all night last night. I really wanted to off myself and I almost did it. So I had to fight back tears throughout our entire session.

BUT, Thank you for contacting my pdoc and asking him to fit me in for an emergency appt. I guess at good that you and him work in the same office.
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  #483  
Old Apr 05, 2017, 12:30 PM
AmandaBroken AmandaBroken is offline
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  #484  
Old Apr 05, 2017, 12:31 PM
Elio Elio is offline
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Originally Posted by junkDNA View Post
I've jst basically stopped texting him. It's eliminated a lot of the the turmoil.i was.feeling
I agree that just stopping can eliminate turmoil. Do you feel you don't need to text him, do you feel you are doing it to protect yourself, do you feel your relationship with him is stronger or weaker without it... ultimately, is it any healthier for you to create the boundary/rule for yourself to just not do it, not risk it than it is to learn how to tolerate that a lack of an immediate or prompt response from someone that we know cares about us, and that the delay or even a lack of a response doesn't mean that they don't care about us?

There is no right or wrong answer here (and no need to respond to me either)... I battle with this one completely, as it is very easy for me to go to the... fine I just won't do x again.
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  #485  
Old Apr 05, 2017, 01:04 PM
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junkDNA junkDNA is offline
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Originally Posted by Elio View Post
I agree that just stopping can eliminate turmoil. Do you feel you don't need to text him, do you feel you are doing it to protect yourself, do you feel your relationship with him is stronger or weaker without it... ultimately, is it any healthier for you to create the boundary/rule for yourself to just not do it, not risk it than it is to learn how to tolerate that a lack of an immediate or prompt response from someone that we know cares about us, and that the delay or even a lack of a response doesn't mean that they don't care about us?

There is no right or wrong answer here (and no need to respond to me either)... I battle with this one completely, as it is very easy for me to go to the... fine I just won't do x again.
yes i feel i don't need it as much anymore, if at all. i've done a lot of thinking about all of that for a while now. am i doing it to protect myself? of course, but i also think it's just what 'needs' to happen at this point in our relationship.

our relationship has been feeling stronger to me lately. i find i am speaking with my T honestly, im telling him how im feeling in the moment and we talk about it. before, i was so caught up in my mind being paranoid about him, what is he thinking, why is he doing that, does he hate me, blah blah ... totally overanalyzing and overthinking everything.... i think thats cleared (for now), i really feel like i am seeing my T as who he is, my therapist. i think im ready to really get to work now? if that makes sense
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  #486  
Old Apr 05, 2017, 01:13 PM
Elio Elio is offline
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Originally Posted by junkDNA View Post
i think thats cleared (for now), i really feel like i am seeing my T as who he is, my therapist. i think im ready to really get to work now? if that makes sense
Totally!! or should that be
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  #487  
Old Apr 05, 2017, 02:43 PM
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LonesomeTonight LonesomeTonight is online now
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Dear MC,
So, I'm basically a puddle right now. You talking about ways you tried to make your kids feel reassured and safe when they were younger to help us with D...it's left me as a puddle of warm fuzziness and paternal transference and...I don't know what else. I mean, you were talking about sitting outside your kids' room during sleep training, sometimes in sweats or PJs, which feels like a paternal thing, but you also mentioned sometimes in your underwear, which...well, that fires in a slightly different part of my brain. And saying how as a parent you were/are dealing with some of the same stuff I deal with as a parent. You were being endearing and dorky and caring all at once, which apparently just fires all the positive, warm and fuzzy emotional triggers for me... So yeah, basically a big puddle right now. Need to mop myself up by the time H and D get home...
Love you,
LT

Last edited by LonesomeTonight; Apr 05, 2017 at 02:46 PM. Reason: Puddles aren't good at typing
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  #488  
Old Apr 05, 2017, 03:17 PM
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Originally Posted by LonesomeTonight View Post
Dear MC,
So, I'm basically a puddle right now. You talking about ways you tried to make your kids feel reassured and safe when they were younger to help us with D...it's left me as a puddle of warm fuzziness and paternal transference and...I don't know what else. T
is it envy or jealousy? i've felt that in regards to my therapist's kids and his stories about them
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  #489  
Old Apr 05, 2017, 03:22 PM
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Demunie Demunie is offline
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T,

Did that again... I'm so sorry, I don't know what the hell I'm doing... what is wrong with me?
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I do not wanna be afraid
I do not wanna die inside just to breathe in
I'm tired of feeling so numb
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  #490  
Old Apr 05, 2017, 03:39 PM
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LonesomeTonight LonesomeTonight is online now
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Originally Posted by junkDNA View Post
is it envy or jealousy? i've felt that in regards to my therapist's kids and his stories about them
I know there's some element of that there...like wishing he could have been my dad when I was growing up, because then I would have had the understanding and reassurance that I needed (that I didn't feel that I got from either parent, even though they were generally caring). Of course, in reality, he would have been 12 when I was born, so probably not the greatest parent!

I've had similar reactions when he's talked about how he's dealt with his daughter's anxiety. I think some of the paternal transference started to develop when he first told a story about how he came up with this way to help her with her anxiety about school. Like he had her come up with a name for the anxiety (let's say, "Ralph"), and then when he'd drop her at school. he'd have her say "F*** you, Ralph!" before getting out of the car, and then she'd generally be OK. (Yeah, he had his daughter curse, I think maybe she was like 11 at the time?) And I had some intense separation anxiety around the same age, but instead, I'd be desperately clinging on to the car as my mom would try to drive away. So it was like, if only I'd had a parent who knew how to deal with my anxiety and helped me with it...

Then there's also the part where it's like MC understands me better than H does (partly because he has a PhD in psychology and partly because he's struggled with some stuff, like anxiety, himself), so there's part of me that also imagines him saying that stuff to our daughter...or at least not getting snippy with me if I'm trying to comfort her. (H tries, and has really seemed to be trying hard lately, but it just doesn't seem to come naturally to him). Though I know from MC's own accounts, he's certainly not always like that with his kids and has done his share of yelling at them (including till his son cried and asked if he still loved him). And I suspect he and his wife had their share of disagreements/fights as well...

So it's all sort of muddled up in my head, I guess... (In other words, probably going to end up sending him an e-mail that will be the one he *does* take a few days to respond to and I'll feel all weird and worried in the meantime...though he's generally very accepting of any sort of transference-related stuff.)

Doesn't help that T is off next week of course!
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  #491  
Old Apr 05, 2017, 04:01 PM
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I didn't tell you today that I love you. But I do. And you came through for me today, as always.
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  #492  
Old Apr 05, 2017, 08:08 PM
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LonesomeTonight LonesomeTonight is online now
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Dear MC,
Well, the Daddy shirt trick failed (haven't tried the Mommy one yet). As have a couple other things, but we'll try them again another night.

Don't take too long to write back to my e-mail, OK? I don't even know what I want you to say. I said I knew the feelings were OK, so I'm not expecting that. I guess some magical comment that will make all my transference feelings make sense and resolve themselves? And I won't be so attached to you? OK, that's a lot to expect from an e-mail... So, just something, whatever comes to mind. Doesn't have to be tonight, just in the next day or two would be good.

And OK, a further report says that the Daddy shirt may have worked after all....

Wish I had an MC shirt to curl up with...(hope that's not too weird!)

Love,
LT
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  #493  
Old Apr 05, 2017, 09:42 PM
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I meant to tell you this evening that I've come to accept just how much I value this relationship - even as much as I call it convoluted and confusing and crazy-making and keep talking about quitting, I value it so much. I've found such healing within and because of it. I'm in one of those moods at the moment where I never want to stop therapy.

(I don't think I'll tell you that last part, though.)

I love that you see me.
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  #494  
Old Apr 05, 2017, 10:10 PM
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Dear T,

I don't know how I'm going to survive the next month without you. I get that you are overdue for a long vacation and I understand, but... I need you. And a month is going to be so long. I selfishly wish I could force you to stay, but I know it's impossible. Sigh. I don't know what to even do with myself.
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  #495  
Old Apr 06, 2017, 04:08 AM
slowandgentle slowandgentle is offline
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Dear T

I am as pissed as hell.

Bet you didn't see that coming - I don't really 'do' angry. I'm all about reasoned and calm and (for)giving and whatever else it takes to reassure that world that I am not the crazy little monster creature they labeled me as for all those years.

Well, guess what - I am not crazy, I am not a monster creature, and I am still pissed.

I have just been through one of the two - only two, ever - darkest, unsafest, most horrific periods of my life, and where were you?

Oh, that's right...you were still trying to give me the distance you think I need because you think I let you too close to me and freaked myself out. And, of course, you were still being so very cool and hip about my suicidality and all the growing signs that things were getting worse, because that's how you roll.

Where were you when I emailed to say I was desperate (the only time, ever, in 18 mths), and please could you give me some time. Any time?

Where were you when I understood that you couldn't fit in a phone session, but wondered if you would please be able to just read and respond to an email over the next few days. One freaking email. WHERE WERE YOU WHEN I NEEDED YOU??? And if you couldn't be there for me, where was the referral or the connections or even the ideas about how I could keep myself safe. Is that just not in your job description?

The ONLY time I have ever needed you. And where were you, really, when I walked into your room for the next session and you didn't say a word. Not one word about the out of character, desperate-for-help few days I had had. Nothing. Not even a 'are you OK?'

So I'm pissed. I deserved better from you and more from you. I deserved a T that would look my self-murdering, crazy self in the eye and say 'this is not OK. This is not you, it is not who you are. You need some help.' WHERE WERE YOU, T???

You have been essentially absent from my therapy for the past five months. That's more than long enough to get your s*** together around whatever the hell is going on in your life, which, by the way, is NOT MY CONCERN and should NOT be impacting my life.

Yours in pissedness...
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  #496  
Old Apr 06, 2017, 07:36 AM
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Demunie Demunie is offline
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T,

I've been thinking for the past few hours about what is wrong with me... About how I feel and what I want to tell you.

(Trigger warning... Huge one)
Possible trigger:

So... Obvioulsy, I don't want to get better. I shouldn't continue to waste your time.

Yours sincerely,
Me
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  #497  
Old Apr 06, 2017, 08:55 AM
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lucozader lucozader is offline
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I had my first supervision today! So, that was pretty exciting, even though I don't actually have any clients yet.

Of course, the topic of erotic transference came up. Of course it bloody did! I was desperate to say "Ooh, ooh! I know this one! I've read every book and journal article there is on the subject! I'm probably one of the country's leading experts!" but I held it in. Didn't seem like a great introduction to ramble on at everyone about how I'm sooooo in love with my therapist.

Though actually, I'm not really feeling that love this week. It's taken a nosedive again. I'm feeling kinda confused and annoyed and maybe sad instead.

I can't work you out. I'm generally good at working people out, and I hate when I can't do it. Things felt awkward between us yesterday (was it really only yesterday?) and I'm pretty sure something is going on for you. But I'm not sure what it is. My mind is rapidly cycling through a million different interpretations of your words and expressions and behaviour. You're annoyed - or bored - or embarrassed - or competitive - or confused - or afraid - or... okay, I know perfectly well it's not this one, but let me have it anyway... you're attracted to me. Or - and this is the worst, but maybe even the most likely - you just don't really give a s**t, you're disconnected, you're busy thinking about other stuff.

This is so tedious, analysing every little thing you do and say. I feel so pathetic.

Anyway, you talk the talk about being 'real' with me, but I'm not feeling it. Where are you?

Ergh, I hate myself. Where's my inner blanket of compassion?
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  #498  
Old Apr 06, 2017, 10:06 AM
Anonymous37925
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I've had a really tough day. I'm not going to email you but it's enough to write it here I think. I'm glad I've got you on my side.
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  #499  
Old Apr 06, 2017, 10:44 AM
Anonymous43207
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Hey t. I'm telling myself I'm ok with it if you don't respond to last nights email. It was for you, after all. Not for me. So I will be selfless for once.
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  #500  
Old Apr 06, 2017, 10:48 AM
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captgut captgut is offline
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Feeling weird and scared today. Seems my psychosis is coming back. Or not. I don't know.
Hope you exist. Hope you're a not a robot, or an actor. Hope you're real...
Love u.
Me
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