In Session Today : Part III

Yeah, I wish this could have happened--but I think you're right, that he couldn't manage it well enough. Something that came up Monday (and has in the past) is how he doesn't want to take away from couples counseling to talk about transference...but as H pointed out, well, if it's interfering with the couples counseling, then we kind of have to address it in order to move forward and get stuff done.

That's an interesting observation about the external thing making transference stronger. I think individual contact with MC--particularly phone calls--generally helps to ease the transference rather than intensify it. I think there's an element of not being able to address it that makes it stronger. The whole thing where if you're not allowed to talk about something, it can intensify. Whether a fear, romantic feelings, etc. (I'm speaking in general, not just about MC here). Which is one of the benefits of therapy overall--you can get all those thoughts out of your head to someone whose job it is to listen to them.

Two sessions ago, MC was saying how if I feel transference for someone, like a friend (is that even possible? wouldn't that just be having regular feelings?), then the place to deal with it would be in individual therapy, so the same goes for this. I said, "But in that case, the friend isn't a therapist. You're a trained therapist, so it makes sense to deal with it with you." He just didn't seem to get why I felt I should address it with him either instead of or along with T. But I feel like most stuff I've read about addressing transference in therapy talks about addressing it with the object of the transference, not an outside person.

And thanks for the support!

I'll have to look more into the triangles thing. With me, H, and D, honestly, I think D often does the opposite--increases the tension in the primary relationship... so I assume that wouldn't count.

Thanks, Rayne. This makes a lot of sense. Especially because the romantic/erotic elements feel different from how I've felt toward exes and my H. But it's really difficult to explain how. It's like it's coming from a different part of me.

Ex-T seemed to think it was strange for me to feel both at the same time. Trigger warning because of something she said back when I first talked to her about it Meanwhile, MC acted like, back when I first told him about it, that it was perfectly normal and common. He talked about how we use the same word, "love," to describe feelings for kids and family as we do for romantic partners.

This is really interesting...my father was/is fairly emotionally reserved. I mean, he cares and was/is there for us, but I didn't really have the warmth from him. And at one point (I'm sure I've mentioned this on here...), when I was 12, my mom had ovarian cancer (survived), which set off intense anxiety issues, including separation anxiety, for me. During this time, I did something related to the anxiety that upset my mom, and she went off and cried. My dad, in response to this, said to me, "Maybe I love your mother a little more than I love you." Which reinforced in my mind that physical illness is OK and acceptable, but mental illness is not. Neither of them ever seemed understanding or accepting of my OCD and anxiety issues, and later my issues with depression as a teen.

I think part of why I attached so much to MC is that he has been (for the most part) so accepting of me as I am. Normalizing instead of pathologizing (like, "It's normal to feel anxious about x." or "We can't control our feelings--they just are. So any feeling is OK." Which felt very different from my parents... (plus him talking about helping his daughter and son deal with their anxieties...)

But I think you're right that he's playing into it some, like trying to play that caring, paternal role for me at times, so I feel really connected to and cared for by him. He's said many times that he would never reject or abandon me. And he talks about how processing transference can help rewrite scripts from my past. Then later when he backs off, like 2 Sundays ago, it feels like rejection--and is especially painful, because it's not just like random therapist rejecting me, but paternal figure. So it makes sense that both of those would trigger those Oedipal sort of feelings...

No problem! I'm curious as to whether MC will change how he is going forward. Because he certainly went into reassurance and caring mode on Monday... I'm also wondering if it would transfer to new T--I've discussed my fears about this with T, and he's said we can work through whatever develops, that he's not going to just drop me over something like that (he did not use the same "I won't abandon you" wording, which I think is actually a good thing, because...I think that has overtones of countertransference and is not a realistic promise.)

I think transference is more like stuff from the past. Like, this person or situation is reminding me (consciously or subconsciously) of a person or situation I have encountered before, so it's bringing up old patterns or dynamics in my behavior/feelings that may or may not actually have anything to do with that person. I think I've had a brief bit of transference with my mother-in-law (who is lovely in general and very kind to me) when she wore sunglasses that made her look almost exactly like my grandmother (who can be quite hurtful in general and specifically to me). I could feel myself get quieter and more cautious about what I said during the meal when my MIL was wearing the sunglasses. It didn't have anything to do with the actual present-day relationship with my MIL, so I didn't need to deal with it with her but instead could use it as data about myself and my relational dynamics.

My T says that people do this all the time in therapy, and her job is to notice the patterns (she calls it "the dance") and to be thoughtful about how her behavior and reactions can re-write old scripts by not repeating past hurts from significant people in the client's life. And I think potentially by helping them practice more healthy or useful patterns.

Interesting session. Talked about ET from a number of different angles. All at quite a surface level - keeping myself safe in the face of an upcoming break, and T was mindful of that too. At one point T said he felt I was being flirtatious, and he called it right. I totally was, though it was pretty much unconscious until he pointed it out. So that's in the mix. Gave him a poem I wrote him, and a Portuguese custard tart (he likes custard tarts and these ones are amazing). Said see you in the new year.
Felt like a good session.

The way that I understand triangulation, is that if there is conflict between person A and B, one or both of them pull in a third person to help them deal with the discomfort caused by the other. There is often an attempt on A or B's part to enlist C to help them deal with the other.

In churches, and example of this would be "Betty" gets upset at the pastor. Instead of talking to the pastor, Betty talks to "Fred", and wants Fred to go talk to the pastor and get the pastor to stop doing whatever she is upset about. Sometimes, this works for all parties. Betty gets what she needs, Fred is helpful, Betty doesn't have to endure facing the pastor herself, pastor gets feedback from a more neutral person that Betty which can make it easier to hear and accommodate.

But, sometimes this just increases tension all around. Fred takes on Betty's feelings, feels stress because he has to address the pastor, the attempt to intervene results in tension between Fred and Pastor, Pastor feels like people are ganging up on him, Betty doesn't have the opportunity to deal with her own feelings in a healthy way, Fred may or may not accurately address Betty's concerns, Pastor and Betty may feel weird around each other. Etc.

From what I have read about your family dynamic, the tension may exist between D and H, and you sometimes get pulled into the middle. If that is the case, the "primary" relationship would be between D and H for the purposes of understanding the triangle.

Went in today feeling depressed and closed off from my T. I've been feeling annoyed at him that he's not figured out how badly I'm struggling, it's felt like he's being very casual and I'm feeling desperate. Last night I was worried I'd go in and be angry at him, but I woke up feeling distant and depressed instead.

At the start of session, I didn't seem to know how to address that, so I just started talking about things I've been feeling and thinking about. It turned out that I had ample time to talk about the two main issues I've had on my mind. I was not as pressed for time as I'd feared. There is still a slim possibility he will have a cancellation later today or tomorrow, but I feel a lot better already, it'll be okay if he doesn't. At the end he told me he'll be available by email over the holidays and could even do a short phone call if I needed that, and I nearly started to cry again out of relief. I'm grateful that my usual feelings about him have been restored and things feel smoothed out.

Holy crow, that was an intense final session of the year. I began by telling R about my thumb and how it took me a while to notice.
‘I get the sense you are concerned about that.’
‘Very –how did I become so disconnected from my body that I didn’t notice that starting?’
‘Is the disconnection related to what is going on for you right now?’
‘I had been aware of it for a while, but this is physical evidence. I’ve been exploring it in artwork. After I wrote Descent…about five weeks later, this happened.’
I then reached around to my right, and brought out I Am Burning
‘You’ve had that around before, but never talked about it. It is familiar to me. Can you help me understand?’
‘It is the ‘Misplaced trust smells like burning, feels like burning…’ part of the poem.’
‘Can you explain a little more?’
‘The central figure is me, I guess. The blue figures are…I guess the word is sadness, and the shadowy figures are them.’
‘There are lots of blue figures…and these two?’
‘They are helpful people, I need to get more of those.’
I then spread the whole series of art works on the floor, and talked R through them: ‘This is The Story Keeper, this is Speaking The Unspeakable part one, Speaking The Unspeakable part two, and… ‘I Will Not Desert You’’
‘OK’
‘And this one is ‘Impervious’’
‘This one stands out to me…The Story Keeper. Can you explain it?’
‘When we talk with other people, we each become Story Keepers for one another. Sometimes it is hard to choose.’
‘Hard to choose?’
‘Hard to choose who to trust.’
‘And that is you with your story?’
‘Yes, this would have been September 2016, around the time of my experience with the first counselling service. I made the call, which was a big deal on its own, but got cut off twice.’
‘I can see there aren’t any gold people here. I can imagine that left you feeling very alone with it. But you said that you felt better since talking to your pottery tutor about it…which we discussed a few sessions ago, how you want to be authentic. Before we go any further… It’s my agenda a little bit, but I wanted to say that I picked up your e-mail couple of days ago.’
‘That was on my agenda for today too.’
‘I am really sorry. I read it and thought ‘Oh’. [her ‘oh’ carried the tone of ‘Whoops’] of As for my remark about self-reflection, I was not subliminally trying to draw things to a close. We can continue as we are for now, and if there ever came a point where I could no longer or we only have so many sessions we would plan that together.’
‘Thank you.’
‘I feel very privileged that you have shown me your artwork today. I feel as though it is very private, something you do for you.’
‘It is a very delicate balance.’
‘A very delicate balance.’
‘Ever the writer…’
‘You berate yourself for the way you express things, and when you struggle to speak but it really helps me understand.’
‘On four separate occasions…’
‘On four separate occasions…’
‘On four separate occasions…’
‘Take your time, Lost. I’m here.’
‘This should not be so hard. Full body bristling.’
‘Shouldn’t be? I’m sensing that it is.’
‘On four separate occasions, I all but watched her die. One of those occasions remains vividly. “She called me into the bathroom to help with something…”’

‘She called me into the bathroom to help with something…’

‘I’m here. I would invite you to stay with it. My hand is here if you need it.’

I took her hand in my right hand. It was warm, and soft, and comforting.

‘She called me into the bathroom to help with something and collapsed….What gave them the right to subject me to all that?’
‘You went somewhere then and now you are back to analysing why. Can I repeat the phrase back to you?’

I nodded, for I didn’t trust myself to speak.
‘She called me into the bathroom to help with something, and she collapsed. I don’t want to take you out of this space, but we have about five or six minutes left, and I want to give you some time to go ‘Phew!’’

I leaned back in my chair and let go of R’s hand. There was more eye contact and connection this week.
‘How are you feeling? I sense tired. I think you have been really brave and open, there’s been a real change. I feel that you…that we really went somewhere today, that you really tried to go to that dark place, that night-time place, under your control. It’s different, obviously, because for one, it’s daytime, and I’m here.’

‘The nighttime place feels horrifically unsafe.’
‘Unsafe, and it sounds very scary.’
‘Two good words. I need to gain control.’
‘You need to gain control. That seems like a good place to stop.’

Her next words threw me and warmed me in one.

‘Would you like a hug into the New Year?’
R is a good human, and therefore gives good hugs.

LT - I've spent the last 45 minutes reading through all your posts to catch up on what happened. I'm really sorry you are going through such turmoil. If I'm honest, it brings up so much of what happened with me and my ex-therapist (S) that I'm not wholly sure I can respond "unbiased." But, I will try.

First - to respond to some things:

I always thought S's looser boundaries with me made me special. I mean, I FELT special...but I also felt tortured. By guilt, questions, unequal ground...it was a stressful relationship.

My new T (C) seems a lot like your new T. C will do phone calls or texting at his normal hourly rate - you don't even have to be in crisis to use it. I can email at any time, but he is not obligated to read or respond (he has said that any email responses he supplies are free).

C and I began our relationship by setting these boundaries - literally, day 1. I have also gone through bouts of hating the whole "I have to pay for you to be there for me" thing, but I have also noticed a HUGE reduction in the amount of stress I feel about outside contact. There is no guessing - no waiting game - no "why hasn't he responded" ...ok, maybe not NONE of that (because email), but so so much less. I know that I can reach him, and I don't leave our phone/text conversations feeling that I owe him anything/that he has just done me some huge service that I now need to compensate for.....well, outside of the money I owe. It's freeing!

I also know far less about C than I did about S. Far far less. And while I always felt "special" because S told me so much, it also put a lot of emotional baggage and weight onto me -- I felt the need to take care of him -- the need to consider ALL of his current life situation before asking for any of my needs to be met. I feel so so much more...safe, really...with C. I don't know every little thing going on in his life, so I don't feel like I need to filter my issues to "lessen the load" for him.

Point is -- boundaries make or break a therapeutic relationship. And, in my experience, a T with blurry boundaries cannot transition to clear boundaries with the client he's had blurry boundaries with. It just doesn't work -- there are too many rejection feelings, too much guilt and self blame.

I know someone else said this, but I had to comment, because this has been a really important thing for me to remember. I have a lot of paternal transference for C. And, sometimes, when he says something highly paternal, I get a jolt of pleasure that courses through my whole body -- and I do mean my whole body. A few years ago, this would've terrified me. But, now, I realize that it's just ALL of my pleasure centers firing. It's a very weird experience.

----

So, now what I do feel like I see... but I also feel like you don't want to see...

Whatever you want to label your feelings - transference, erotic, paternal, romantic, platonic - they have elements of all of the above -- tinged with everything. I agree with the person above who said it's BOTH paternal and erotic/romantic. That was a really really hard thing for me to admit myself about S -- See, I was PETRIFIED of having erotic/romantic transference towards S...terrified of it. I sought reassurance all the time that my transference was NOT sexual in any way (a topic for my own therapy at another time). But, once S was no longer my T, I had to just admit it to myself: no, I don't want a relationship with this man; no, my feelings aren't based in the reality of who he is; but, yes, they absolutely come with romantic/erotic feelings too. But that is not easy to admit because there are so so many layers of reasons why I DON'T want that to be the case... and so it's far better to just reason my away out of it...to prove that it's not true.

Today in session....

T was 45mins late AGAIN because his car wouldn't start AGAIN. It kind of worked out though, on my end because my son's t was just hanging out in the front office and she said we could go talk about my son and a recent incident while we were waiting for my t to show up.

T and I talked about me quitting therapy and he said he would really prefer I don't do it "cold turkey" so we eventually landed on going down to once a month. So, I scheduled for 4 weeks out. T did admit to not being a good therapist for the last couple of weeks, and he can understand why I have been upset after my sessions, and wanting to quit abruptly. I general just feeling really disillusioned with therapy.

Sounds really crappy. Hugs.

Thanks for taking the time to catch up and comment! I totally don't expect unbiased commentary It helps to hear from people who have "been there."

Oh, I know exactly what you mean--MC's letting me e-mail/talk to him outside of marriage counseling sessions made me feel special, too... Yet still wanting more...

Interesting that they have similar boundaries...I feel much less stress about my relationship with T as well. I'm sure part of it is that I haven't known him nearly as long, but in some ways, it feels almost "safer" with the boundaries. And I seem much more able to "sit with anxiety" after sessions if I'm worried about how he reacted to something because I haven't gotten into the e-mail/texting habit with him. But if I really do need to contact him, he's there (though not really between 10 p.m. and 7 a.m.--like he won't respond to phone calls or texts during that time--but I can respect that boundary, too).

Yes, "safe" is a good word for it. I also feel like T has a good work/life balance. That he's taking plenty of time for self-care, family time, etc. He also sees fewer clients in a week (hence his ability to fit me in for extra sessions). MC often seems like he's trying to be everything to everyone all the time--packed client schedule, looking at texts he gets during session, answering the phone at 3 a.m., etc. I think he's overextending himself (particularly when his wife was sick) and can't really be there completely for anyone--let alone having time for himself. I really wonder if he could be headed toward some sort of burnout...(or maybe was already there at some point).

I agree here, too--and it seems like it was difficult for MC to understand the effect that his changes had on me. Because he kept saying, "I'm not rejecting or abandoning you. And I'm not saying you can't ever text or e-mail me." Finally, he seemed to understand.

That's an interesting way to put it, how all your pleasure centers are firing. That's sort of how I felt after Monday's appointment, where MC had seemed to understand and take responsibility and was reassuring me. It can be like a drug almost (but I guess that's what drugs do to you, too--hit your pleasure centers). The couple times with new T where I've felt something like that, my first thought is, "Oh no, am I feeling this for him, too?" But then I realize that feeling connected to someone--including a completely platonic female friend--can feel that way at times for me, too. So maybe it's just about the connection...and I did ask T what would happen if I ended up getting attached to him, and he said we'd work through it, that he wouldn't just drop me--so that made me feel better. Having my first dream involving him last night freaked me out a bit, too (though...part of the dream was kind of amusing). Like, what does it mean? Do I tell him about it? Will he get weirded out?

----

That's really interesting that you were so afraid of the erotic/romantic. I think I feel more guilt about those sort of feelings--especially because he's my marriage counselor. Really, I think it's the romantic feelings that scare me the most, so when T said that e-mail I sent to MC sounded like a love letter, it was like, "Oh no..." But sometimes I think, maybe it's kind of safe for me to have those feelings for him, because nothing could realistically happen. And I know if something would somehow happen, if he crossed that line...it would probably destroy me.

So are you saying it would have been better if you'd just admitted those feelings to yourself earlier on instead of fighting them? I think also, at least in my experience, that if you fight against feelings, it can make them stronger...which I think may have been the case with transference for MC in general for me.

I'm thinking now, in part due to what happened recently and also from a discussion I had with T in session yesterday (and then with H), we may need to stop seeing MC. Maybe not immediately and cold turkey, but to wind down. We're already not seeing him till Jan. 3, so I figure I'll see how I do during that time. T asked me, "Has it already gone past the point where it's effective marriage counseling for you and H?" Like, are we past the point of no return, in a sense? And I think I know the answer to that... (Might write up yesterday's session later, though I feel I'm totally monopolizing the IST thread!).

The first thing I said was, "I'm really struggling." I need to do that more often, be really honest about how I'm doing. Sometimes I go in and I am so used to needing to be together out in the world that I have a hard time unbuckling the armor in the therapy room. That's the whole point of going to the therapist, to talk about all of the raw stuff, and it let her know what I needed today.

She uses a lot of affirming and joining language when we have a session like that. It helps. I just needed her to listen and comment her thoughts and say "That's hard" and help me sort through my thoughts. I thought I was asking a question to get more context and understanding, but listening to her response I realize I was really asking a grieving question, an unanswerable why couldn't things have been different question.

(And it didn't feel like she was distracted. Not a peep about insurance or being busy or anything else, which was a relief.)

I feel like I've already dominated this thread, but going to do a brief(ish) recap of T on Wednesday anyway...

Sat down, I volunteered, "I'm actually doing OK, I think." T: Tell me about that. Me: About me being OK? T: Yes. Me: Uh...so session with MC went better than I'd expected Monday. I then gave a brief recap of part of that.

I said how I knew he'd e-mailed a bit with MC, but MC had said it had just been about logistical things. I said before he'd said that, I'd worried about what he might have shared with T. Like, I know he'd never say these words, but I worried he'd say to T, "That b**** be crazy!" T said that yeah, he could totally see a short Jewish guy with a Long Island accent (actually New Jersey, but close enough) saying that! But also saying how they hadn't talked about anything like that. I said how MC had said T hadn't given him any sense that he didn't want to keep working with me, and I hadn't gotten that sense either. T confirmed that to be the case. And said how it was clearly a sign of my insecurities--I agreed.

The topic of resolving transference came up. T said he didn't think it was necessarily about processing it with MC--but maybe more about the real source of it, my parents. He said he didn't remember if he'd brought this up with me or just "thought really loudly about it," but there was the idea of bringing my mom (and/or dad) into a session with us. I said he'd mentioned that before, and it was something I'd been thinking about. So we discussed that possibility a bit more. And what could potentially be accomplished (and not accomplished) by that. Plus some other stuff about my mom.

Ended up back on the subject of MC. I commented on how he'd (presumably) mistakenly said "countertransference" instead of "transference" a few times in session. T said he would have had to see full transcript to know if it was by mistake or intentional. He talked a bit about countertransference in general, saying how if I was looking for paternal stuff from MC in a session, MC might realize afterward that he was acting more father-like toward me than usual. Then he'd think about it later and realize it was his reaction to what I was doing/expressing. But T said that’s something therapists aren’t supposed to deal with in the session, but on their own.

T also acknowledged how MC was kind of sending me mixed signals—like saying I can share any feelings with him and it would be OK…but then acting oddly when I shared the love feelings. It made me feel better that he recognized that (instead of just defending MC).

With about 10 minutes to go, he asked if he could bring something up that was related. I said OK. He said he wondered if there was still a value in seeing MC, particularly as far as marriage counseling is concerned. Like…maybe it’s sort of too far gone to really be effective marriage counseling anymore. Six months ago (or even more recently), I would have starting sobbing at that suggestion--but not this time.

I said I wasn’t sure, that I’d thought the same before. And how H at some point (in past year, when I'd asked him) had basically agreed to keep seeing him because of my transference, even though he (H) didn't necessarily think we needed as much marriage counseling anymore. T said it was interesting because it suggested H thought maybe it wasn't effective marriage counseling anymore either.

T then apologized, saying he realized he'd taken us to the end of session time with that. And was I OK ending there? I said I was, but I'm curious as to what he would have done if I said I hadn't been (might ask him that next week...) He asked if I was OK waiting till next week to see him, and I said yes. We scheduled for the Wed. after Christmas (Dec. 27).

We went over to his desk, and I made a comment about wanting to pick the right credit card, because some were closing at the same time. He said, "Closing?" with some alarm, and I said, "Oh, just when the statements close. Trying to not have everything due at once." and then he seemed to get it. (I think maybe he was worried they were canceled or something?)

Finished paying. Usually he keeps sitting at his desk for the good-bye and handshake, but this time he stood up. He held out his hand, and I shook it as he said, "Have a good Christmas!" Something about it felt very warm. I said, "You, too." As I was turning to go, he said, "I hope everyone likes the presents you got!" I said, "Thanks, they've mostly from Amazon!" and he laughed. He said, "Take care," and I said, "You too," then headed out.

LT-i love reading your In Session posts, btw.

I have thought for awhile (you know, armchair therapy here!) that I didn't think much MC was actually happening. I know maybe you focus more on the transference stuff here in this forum, and leave out stuff with your daughter (which seems to be the main source of problems?) that maybe I could be wrong. And not that MC needs to be done completely, but maybe take a break and see how you guys do in the interim?

Thanks, Velcro--good to know you enjoy reading them! I worry that people are like, "Oh no, another LT In Session post! zzzz" It does help me process things to type them out.

The thing is, there have been periods where some good marriage counseling stuff has happened--including a few weeks ago. But I think the fact that I'm like, "Hey, good marriage counseling stuff happened this week!" suggests that it's more the exception than the rule. Or even if it's, say, 50% of the time, still...

At the end of our last MC session, MC seemed uncertain as to whether we'd want to come back, though he said he hoped to keep working with us. I admit that before that session, because of what had happened in the phone call and the session after (because it didn't resolve things enough), I hadn't been sure. But we went ahead and scheduled for Jan. 3.

I had a talk with H after my T session Wed., and we discussed what to do about MC. I think we're going to try spacing apart sessions more (2 weeks...3 weeks...a month) and see how that goes. Helps that we don't see him for over 2 weeks since the last session. That way, as H put it, he's still there if we need him, like if we have some major conflict. Even if it gets to a point where we're basically seeing him once every 2 months. I asked H if he'd be willing to see a different marriage counselor, and he said he wouldn't want to right away--that he'd want like a 6-month break before seeing a new one (when I'd asked him before, he hadn't seemed open to ever seeing a different one, so...progress I guess?)

I think we just need to try seeing him less often and see how it feels for me... I suppose there's the concern it could somehow intensify my attachment, or make me want to contact him between sessions more, but we'll deal with that if it gets there.

I really think having T on board with me will help immensely. I just feel like, for whatever reason, ex-T couldn't seem to help me with that...so that contribute to my getting "stuck." Hoping current T can help me get "unstuck..."

LT I think this was very valuable with T, MC seems to have run it's course of helpfulness for you and H. Maybe distance out a few sessions and see how it feels?

T was sad today... Well, its me who made him sad. But I was so glad to see him. I told him about woebot and some other stuff.

He has prescribed me Seroquel today, but I don't want to take it. I think it was our last appointment... But who knows.

Wow! I feel angry at what she did to you. She got way out of her depth without considering the consequences to you. I got referred to a T once who supposedly had worked with my diagnose. I could tell she didn't know too much. But at the time, I was really in need of any help I could get. In a short time I knew she was out of her depth. While trying to find another & figuring out how to let her down easily..yea, I know!...she sent me a letter resigning. Not even offering a referral. Found out she had worked briefly with just 2 others. I was teaching her & I was paying her!!! Should have been the other way around! I must admit I gave my next & current T a horrible, hard time for longer than he deserved. Poor guy!! But he has extensive experience with my dx & hung in there. Hopefully you willl find another too. I don't take professional's word for their competence anymore...lawyer, tax accountant, doctor...nobody. Thankfully the internet has sites that rank now. Take care of yourself....



QUOTE=BayBrony;5707648]I don't know where else to share about this, because even my spouse doesn't understand how messed up I can get in some relationships. It doesn't happen in real life now though it did when i was younger. Now it only occurs in a therapy relationship, basically intense maternal transference.

My T is awesome. She is also, unfortunately, currently out of town. I have someone else I worked with, a body/energy therapist.

From the beginning we did a lot of talking ( ill call her BT) and discussing feelings. She also works on the "whole universe is made of love" pov, so also a lot of talk about love. So love, intense nurturing touch, talking about feelings.....

Yeah developed intense maternal transference.in short, she just fired me bc of that...

So turns out, I find out now that all that talking and stuff isn't what she normally does. She normally only does body work. But she wanted to "branch out to different forms of healing"...i guess i was a guinea pig?????

I struggle with boundaries bc of the transference. My T manages this really really well. But BY, she gave a lot of mixed messages. Shed tell me not to email her, but then send a long reply, or tell me how much she liked connecting with me. Shed self disclose but then pull out the "were not friends" boundary. Shed say I have to leave exactly on time but then chat sbout her cat after time was up. I guess she was annoyed by all if this but I didn't know bc if you really want me to leave why are you chatting with me????

We've had a few intense emotional incidents bc of my transference....last week we had a sort of crisis . I got hurt pretty bad and was in the ER. I texted her for support( she'd previously said I could texr her) and she basically told me not to bother her.

That went poorly.

I was very very hurt, and our next session just made it worse bc she refused to acknowledge that it had intensely hurt me. I know she didn't mean it to. And if she doesn't want me to text her I won't. But it still hurt me deeply.

After the session there was a heated email exchange, which apparently drained her of all energy...which I thought she would respond if she wanted to and not she didn't. Also that I was "blaming" her.

Then after a year and a half of working together she sends me an email firing me. I called her, thinking there was a misunderstanding but no I am "exhausting " "volatile " "unpredictable " and "she doesn't do emotional healing" like wtf were we doing all this time then??? If its not whar you do, why did you ever ever start doing it????

I feel so broken. This is my worst nightmare. All my child hood abuse was centered around how everyone eould be better off without me bc I was so abnormal and defective and sucking the life out of everyone.

BT has totally washed her hands of me . She says she is "doing it with love" which i think is bs .
When it was happening I was too ashamed to tell my T although my T referred me to BT and sometimes they talk about me so I don't know what T does or doesn't know . I am so broken now i don't care about being ashamed so I left my T a voice mail.

I'm so ashamed. With my T I have learned to control the feelings but with BT the transference feelings were much harder to control. I don't know why and I don't understand why i am so broken....

That didn't go well.[/QUOTE]

LT,

Sorry that it took me awhile to chime in. Work, sickness, you name it.

I too think that your current MC has run its helpful course. I think even he knows that. It sounds like your current T is a better support. I think it's excellent that you and H talked about spacing out sessions. From what I read I think you guys are making enough progress to not need an MC. During this time though maybe you and your T could discuss extra time for support? Maybe you and your H could use usually MC time to go out together, talk even. Hang in there, feel free to message me.

T,

Thank you for offering me time this week. Holidays are hard enough without missing sessions.

Thanks, Pain. It's like MC maybe knows that, but doesn't seem to want to let go of us for some reason. Maybe he knows he screwed up, particularly regarding some stuff with me (unclear, shifting boundaries, etc.) and he's hoping he can make up for it and get us back on track? I feel like he'd need some actual plan to do that, though, and he's never really been particularly goal-oriented with the marriage counseling--as I've discussed with T before, it's like he's doing psychodynamic therapy, but with a couple. T's had lots of training in couples counseling and uses actual theories/models and stuff in it--as did ex-T, from what she talked about, like having each member of couple fill out goals in the beginning, etc.--but MC seems just kind of free form. So it's not even like we could say, "Hm, have we achieved our goals?"

Sorry, just rambling there--and wondering if things would have been different if we'd gone to someone who did more structured marriage counseling, if we could have stopped much sooner and with more actual progress.... I think there is this part of me that fears not just being away from MC, but also not having the safety net of marriage counseling. Like knowing if H and I have a major conflict over the week, there will be a mediator there for us on Monday. It's the fear that if we stop, then things will go to hell...but I don't know, maybe right now it's actually making things worse? By creating new conflicts?

I feel like spacing out sessions is the safest way to go, just seeing how we do. And then knowing we have an upcoming appointment, even if it's not for another 2 weeks. He's said before when we've talked about termination, that we could space out sessions, even monthly or more, then if we feel a need, either temporarily or longer-term, to see him more often (like going through a rough patch, just needing more support for whatever reason), we could do that. He's also said that if we terminated, as long as he's still practicing, we could always come back. So knowing all that I think makes me feel safer in spacing out sessions/working toward termination... that it's not a final thing (part of why I hate the word "termination"!)

One thought I had was, for the weeks we don't see him, to put the money we'd normally be spending on the session (net of $70 after insurance reimbursement) in a separate account, then after a certain point, use it to take a vacation or buy something nice for ourselves. Like, say, for our 10-year anniversary later this year. I mean, it's not going to be enough to take a trip to Europe, but could definitely help.

LT - if you stop and things go to hell, you can find another counselor. Leaving MC doesn't mean that you can never ask for help with your marriage again. MC isn't the only person who can help. In fact, someone else may be able to help so much more.

I think spacing out sessions and weaning yourself off him is a good idea. I would also encourage you to openly discuss that you are planning to wean down until termination. I think it's important to spend some sessions tying loose ends and "winding down" so that when termination comes, you can feel the chapter is closed, not incomplete.

(((LT))) if you needed this relationship with MC, then you needed it i think you got a lot out of it. You and mc both put your hearts into it, and i dont see anything wrong with that. You were very open with your feelings and secrets and wishes - not everyone is that brave. He was also going thru an incredibly difficult time. I think life in t is just funny that way - it gets amplified in weird ways. But a LOT of work got done.

I would miss MC, but it seems like you are outgrowing him. There's an irony there, bc ultimately that is his job. However, I adore reading the stories and ongoing updates, so selfishly I want him to stay lol.