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  #476  
Old May 09, 2018, 11:44 AM
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lucozader lucozader is offline
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Location: UK
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Monday evening's session:

After a bit of chit chat (some discussion of the weather/temperature, and T noticing my new backpack) I said "I don't want to say any of the things I have to say". T said he'd heard apocryphal tales of old school analysts sitting in silence with their clients for an hour. I laughed and said that was like some sort of ridiculous competition, who would give in and speak first? He said yes, like a staring contest.

He said that he'd noticed his own process there and that he was aware he'd taken the focus away from us by saying that. He said he'd come back into the room... I said "no, don't do that!"

I said it would be easier if he was a cold, blank analyst. That then it wouldn't matter what I said to him. He said something like... "Because your words wouldn't make an impact?" and I nodded. He said... "But even when you don't say anything, you still make an impact on me." I said that was a good point.

I got the stones he gave me out of my bag to fiddle with. I remarked that they matched my outfit... T said yes, he'd noticed that I was wearing autumnal colours on a very summery day. I said I like autumnal colours.

I looked down at the stones, rolling them in my palm and listening to them click together. I said that I knew what I was about to say had no real relevance, and that I was avoiding what was really on my mind, but I was going to say it anyway.

I told him that I'd been reading a book about the the human body and the history of medicine, and the other night I had read about an ancient Celtic tradition where stones that looked like different parts of the body were considered to be healing.

(From "Adventures in Human Being" by Gavin Francis:

"Healing stones aren’t exclusive to Tibet: in the town of Killin in Scotland there are a collection of eight stones held sacred to St Fillan, a Celtic divine thought to have been active in the eighth century. The tradition holds that you take the stone that most resembles your own afflicted organ, and rub it on your body. Visitors can go to the old mill in Killin, the first of which is said to have been established by the saint, and take the stones in hand. One looks like a face, one is marked like ribs, and another has an umbilicus like a belly. There’s one that is dark and particularly smooth, and resembles a human kidney.")

I said I had found it strangely relevant to read that since, the week before, I'd told him that the jasper stone he gave me looked like a liver, and that the agate had reminded me of a heart. Which felt especially significant, since it had gone missing and been found on the morning of my appointment with the cardiologist.

I said I didn't believe that I could heal myself with stones, unfortunately, but I liked the idea. I dropped one on the floor and said "that keeps happening", and we talked a bit about how I keep almost losing them. T kept trying to emphasise that I also keep finding them, but I think he missed the point.

He asked what the agate (the stone that looks like a heart) represented to me. I said it was a symbol of strength. He asked what about my heart? I said it's literally broken. Defective.

There was an awkward pause. I was thinking of all the people in my pocket and trying to be brave. I said "...I've been annoyed with you this week..."

T was silent. I said "you're going to respond to that with silence?"... I felt afraid that I'd upset him or made him anxious. He said he was waiting for me to tell him what I'd been annoyed about.

I said there were a few things.

I said that I hadn't liked how he'd seemed to want me to express my anger. That he didn't understand the destructive power of it. I was particularly bothered by the idea that he might get a pillow for me to express it on. I said that I felt sure that if I was a big muscly man he would not treat my anger in the same way.

First of all he said that his pillow suggestion had only been that, a suggestion, an idea, and not intended as an instruction or something he thought I must do. I said I knew that, but it had still been enough to annoy me.

Then... I can't remember exactly what he said. He reflected my idea that he'd be different if I was a big man, and called me a 'slight woman' a couple of times. I guess I'm okay with that. If he'd called me a 'skinny girl' I would not have been able to forgive him.

He said that 'neither of us could ever know' if he'd treat my anger differently if I was a man. Which, upon reflection, is bollocks. On his website he says most of his clients are male. I'm sure some of them have issues with anger, and I'm sure he knows how he approaches that. I still think I am right.

He said something about how if I didn't express my anger, how could he be expected to truly understand the depth of it? I said, weakly... "But I've told you..." (And I have, many times. Told him about how destructive and painful and terrible my anger is.)

He said that he believes that holding in anger, repressing it, tends to cause people a lot of pain and that's why he was encouraging me to express it. I said that's not my bloody problem, I'm not one of those people. My problem is that I do express my anger, too often and too explosively. I can't help it.

I said that T1 had told me to get angry at him. Over and over. And when I did... He did not like it at all.

T quickly said "okay" and I felt like he didn't want to hear any more of that. Or he was thinking that it was an explanation for all my weirdness. Or... I don't know. I'm pretty sure it was all projection, anyway.

I said that I felt like parts of me needed him to be perfect. Even though other parts know that is both impossible and unfair.

He said he was hearing that I felt let down by him. I said yes.

He asked if that was how I felt about my heart... Really, this was a pretty transparent attempt at taking the heat off him and getting me to talk about my heart instead, because he obviously thinks I should talk more about that. But annoyingly it worked - tears immediately came to my eyes.

I said that my first thought had been "yes - it's a stupid piece of crap"... But then I thought "it's my fault".

He asked why I would feel that it's my fault... I said that I had been born with a dodgy heart, but I'd done plenty of things that had likely made it much worse. I'd taken lots of drugs, drank a lot of alcohol, smoked heavily for twelve years... and pregnancy is bad for my condition too. I told him the cardiologist had very seriously asked if I was planning to have children, and told me that it could be dangerous and I should have surgery first. I said it had been funny almost, because I didn't care - in fact it's nice to have an excuse. He asked what that meant, to have an excuse? I said that society judges people who choose not to have children. Now I had a medical reason not to. We talked a bit about my reasons.

I noticed there were nine minutes left, and said that I wanted to use them to express the other thing I'd been avoiding. I said another thing I'd been annoyed about had been 'this' and held up the jasper. He said "the third stone?"

I said yes. I felt really anxious, so I tried to explain that to him. I said I felt afraid to express myself because different parts of me had very conflicting feelings about it, and I felt stuck between them. He suggested that I let them both speak in turn, give them a few minutes each.

I asked if he would hear them both equally. He promised to try his best to.

I said that the part that feels annoyed about being given the jasper feels that it was about him, not me - or even worse, that it could have been about P (my partner). That she thinks he might be being competitive or needing to prove himself right. But that she isn't really sure what it was about or why he did it, so she feels confused and suspicious.

He asked if I wanted him to respond now, or after both parts had spoken. I said after both.

I said the other part liked being given the stone. That she liked the idea that he'd thought about me. That she liked being given something by him, whatever the reason.

I'm finding it hard to remember his response that well, I think because I was quite emotional and my memory doesn't tend to work that well when I am.

He said something about having taken a childlike pleasure in sharing something with me. He said that I'd hit upon an interest of his (but it was him that gave me the stones originally and told me what they were, it's not like I'd just happened to guess out of nowhere...) He said, in a way that I felt was respectful of my feelings, that he didn't think he had been needing to be right or prove himself. Only that he'd been enthusiastic about showing me something. He said that at the time he had also thought I'd lost the agate stone and that I might want a replacement (this doesn't make sense, because I had told him in an email that I'd found the agate, and he even referenced that email when he gave me the jasper...)

He suggested that I could leave the jasper there if I wanted to. In fact I think he used his favourite therapy-speak "how might it feel to...?"

I said "nope, no way" and explained that the part of me that had liked being given it would not give it up.

He asked if both parts had felt heard by him. I said I wasn't sure. That I probably wouldn't know till later. I said that I thought what he'd said had been helpful, anyway. That I felt a bit better.

I didn't know till I reached the bus stop, when I suddenly felt bad...
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  #477  
Old May 09, 2018, 01:03 PM
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lucozader lucozader is offline
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Finished that in a bit of a rush 'cos I had to close up at work.

We ran over by about five minutes in the end. He did what he always seems to do now, and kept talking to me even when I was about to leave. I appreciate not being rushed out of the door (like T1 always did) but it's starting to remind me of my mum, never wanting to let me go. I know that's my stuff.

He said that we've got two 7.45 Monday sessions left, and that we should talk over the next two weeks about whether I wanted to keep that slot or go back to my Thursday one. I'm not sure why it was necessary to say that then. He also looked outside and said that although it was still light then, it wouldn't be in the winter, so I'd be leaving quite late and in the dark. That was kind of a weird thing to say, because I'd both arrived and left in the dark all winter even with the usual 7pm slot. I guess he was suggesting that 9pm in the dark is somehow more threatening than 8pm in the dark?! I don't know about that. Seems like he was being quite paternal there. YOU'RE NOT MY DAD, T. (Sadly.)
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  #478  
Old May 09, 2018, 03:50 PM
bobcat21 bobcat21 is offline
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I saw my cbt/dbt therapist today and things went really well considering this past week I was having a really really rough week it really really helped.
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  #479  
Old May 09, 2018, 04:37 PM
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Lemoncake Lemoncake is offline
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Member Since: May 2017
Location: Seattle.
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Yesterday's session:

>He told me that my 15 year old sister had tried to call him on sunday. Which I didn't know about. In the angry conversation with my mother I did say that I hated living where I was and that I didn't want to study and that I wanted to kill myself.

We talked about the weekend's events.
>Told him I never really felt safe at home.
>He said it was something very sad that he was feeling and that he didn't understand why I was down playing things.

>Told him about the repetitive pregnancy dreams I've been having then said I had decided for now to call a truce That I wouldn't attack him but that didn't mean that he had won.
>He said he didn't realize we were at war.
>But even then I wanted to say mean things to him to try to make him angry.
>"that I found it easier to fight than to feel"

>talked about the boy who asked me out on a date, but I turned down.
>he asked about my father and if were were speaking.
>I said that he had asked if I loved him and I said no.
"because you send me all your love"
>I said that I felt like I did. That his birthday was before my brothers' but I wasn't going to get him a present. How I spent the amount of money on his christmas present that I would have for my own father.
>He commented when I told him that I loved him it was from the place of a little girl innocent. Sweet.
>I brought up father's day and how I thought of him instead.
>He commented that there was an innocent side to me and another that was more risky and flirtatious.
>I told him that the child me wanted to marry him.
>"and live happily ever after".
>I told him that I wanted to be looked after to play monopoly with him. That I secretly wanted him to read the book I gave him for his birthday to me.
>I said that I wanted to buy him a father's day gift but didn't think that he would accept and that it would ruin things between us. That he would say "boundaries S. We need boundaries."
>he commented that the young me was stripped of sexuality, whilst the other me was full but in a hostile way. Couldn't unify the two ideas that it was possible to love and have a sexual relationship.
>we talked about why I didn't like him facing me directly.
>I asked if he could read to me or if that was too much?
>"me read to you?"
> yeah- it would have to be Fantastic mr fox and we talked about the plot until I mentioned that I hated Milne's character Eeyore.
>more talking about my dream and how it was about creation and how my behaviour suggested that I thought sex was shameful.
>mentioned that I didn't talk about periods either because I felt like he'd think I was dirty and disgusting.
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  #480  
Old May 09, 2018, 08:50 PM
JaneTennison1 JaneTennison1 is offline
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Therapist told me that she wasn't on my mother's side and she wanted to make sure I felt heard. She didn't know that what she said would trigger so many feelings. It was exhausting. T really is stepping up her game lately, since we had a the discussion a month or two ago. I told her that sometimes it didn't feel like she participated enough and I just felt alone in the room, ever since then she seems to be trying to show me she is there and that she hears me. I don't know what to do with that.
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  #481  
Old May 09, 2018, 09:17 PM
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Anastasia~ Anastasia~ is offline
Poohbah
 
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Location: Somewhere
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We talked about my issues at work. I was "triggered" (not sure if this is the right word) in therapy talking about it and then I started losing it because I had described some attributes that I felt another person held, but became worried that T would think I was projecting. Who does this? It's like I have introspection on steroids.

T kept asking me why I felt like others had power over me, and I tried but just couldn't seem to put words to this experience. Which is important to me. then I posted here and deleted, another normal thing I do.

I think I think too much. I think I analyze things that mean nothing. But how do I know what is real inside my head and not real? I feel like I am driving myself insane. I'm ready for Summer break.
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  #482  
Old May 09, 2018, 09:23 PM
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WarmFuzzySocks WarmFuzzySocks is offline
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Yesterday was a good session. We went over time by quite a bit. I never realize until later because I check my time sense at the door; otherwise, I can't focus on the natural flow.

I started by talking about last session, how deeply grateful I was for the words that resonated for me, and where they'd led me. I talked about the religious-cultural background of my childhood, the ugliness my marriage got twisted into around the idea of being a Good Wife. How last session's conversation helped those ideas to coalesce and when I could really see them for what they were and where they'd come from, hold them in my hands, I was able to let them go. We talked at length about spirituality and faith, and it was profoundly healing to be met in that space.

We talked about anger. What it's like to feel overwhelming consuming anger and believe that the person with whom I am so angry is still a human being worthy of respect and care, and that I can hold those together because that's who I am. How can I let the anger go without being destructive?

Then I got on a tangent about my resentment, that I thought at this point in my life, I'd have an opportunity to pursue a career that I would love, thrive in, feel energized and rewarded by, how much my heart is with working directly with children and families. And instead I have to be practical.

That's the nutshell version. There was more. It was a long and rich conversation, so many threads weaving together.
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Last edited by WarmFuzzySocks; May 09, 2018 at 09:41 PM.
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  #483  
Old May 10, 2018, 10:24 PM
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atisketatasket atisketatasket is offline
Child of a lesser god
 
Member Since: Jun 2015
Location: Tartarus
Posts: 19,394
First part from the Couch:

So Piaf was sporting cleavage today. More discreet than Info—because how could it not be?—but she had a pendant hanging into the Valley of the Dolls and my eye kept following it down.

Opening scene:

ATAT: So we’re 18 weeks into the year and you’ve taken two separate three week breaks. Can I expect your pattern to be six weeks on, three weeks off?
Piaf: Pretty much, yes.

She refused to confirm or deny that she was caving deep below the earth. “That would be something to do, wouldn’t it?” So I’m gonna persist in that fantasy.

Adding here:

Then I showed her my audiogram from yesterday’s hearing test and explained how to read it to her. At sixty the woman does not get regular hearing tests. Well, I guess you don’t need keen hearing in the bowels of the earth.

Incidentally we seem to have this pattern where she tells me things are bad (hearingwise) and I tell her they’re not as bad as could be (other relatives have it worse) and we stalemate. Last time I told her about the most embarrassing thing that happened to me as a result of my hearing, and she referred to it today as a “tragedy of errors.” I pointed out it had a happy ending. She said that didn’t matter. I said she was making it into a melodrama of errors.

I’d sort of thought hearing would take up the whole time but we were only halfway through. She said I could leave if I wanted to. (I was doing my usual do-not-want-to-be-here body language.)

Then I told her about the problems I’m having settling down to a writing routine this summer. This is where things got irritating, because it felt like we kept going in circles before we got anywhere towards discussing implementing a possible solution. I know what the solution is anyway, set up a routine. The problem isn’t a solution, the problem is carrying it through. Finaliy she said, “well, are you going to let that stop you?” You can tell she used to be a personal trainer.

I said I would like to think not, but obviously I was. Then I added I was irritated enough with her to go home right now and start writing. To which she said, “Go!” and pointed at the door.

And the session ended there. It was in fact time to be over, except then I had to wait while she checked the next appointment time and handed me the receipt/invoice/documentation for the session.

I really didn’t like the ending. It was a joke, but I don’t think we’re in that territory yet. Especially since thanks to her vacation schedule we’ve had about 10 sessions, maybe less.
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  #484  
Old May 11, 2018, 02:40 AM
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LostOnTheTrail LostOnTheTrail is online now
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Definitely not @@...

There are vacations, and then there's taking liberties. Much as it might feel normal for her, it doesn't strike me as being conducive to getting anything worthwhile done.
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'Somewhere up above the great divide
Where the sky is wide, and the clouds are few
A man can see his way clear to the light
Just hold on tight, that's all you gotta do...'

Steve Earle - Fort Worth Blues

'You have all the grace you need for today, and today is all that matters.' - Steve Austin
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  #485  
Old May 11, 2018, 10:36 AM
Echos Myron redux Echos Myron redux is offline
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Member Since: Apr 2018
Location: UK
Posts: 2,171
Me to him:
Quote:
Hi T
I can't tell you everything I'm feeling without this becoming an essay. But the heart of it is that I'm scared that my pain around my feelings towards you is unbearable to you. Because it feels necessary to me. I think it needs to play out. And I need to be open with you about how much it hurts. It feels like I'm making you doubt what we are doing.
I am scared you feel stuck. I don't feel stuck. I feel like we are doing what we're supposed to be doing. But the idea that you feel we are not making progress scares me, I don't want you to think you're not helping me, or that I am unhelpable.
Please reply
Echos
Him to me:
Quote:
Hi Echos,

It is good to read that you feel what is happening in your feelings towards me feels necessary to you.

Reading your email reminded me of the analogy of being roped together climbing a mountain. I am very comfortable with you taking the lead for this section - trust you to find a good path.

My feelings in this respect are not too hard for me to manage.

Take care of yourself,
T
I like that he used an old analogy we have talked about before. That helped. But the last line made me feel a little like I am overestimating the amount he actually gives a s***. Like I am imagining I am too much for him but the truth is he doesn't really care. But I don't want to be too much for him either. So I don't know what I want. Sigh.
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  #486  
Old May 13, 2018, 03:38 PM
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LonesomeTonight LonesomeTonight is offline
Always in This Twilight
 
Member Since: Feb 2015
Location: US
Posts: 22,081
T Friday. Sat down, I said how I still hadn't heard from PhD program, talked about that a minute. He asked if I'd brought notes on what I wanted to talk about--I said I'd actually printed something from "Dear T" that I'd added on to. That I was originally going to hand it to him to read, but it was pretty long, so I'd just read parts of it. He said to share as much of it as I wanted.

I put on my reading glasses, which I don’t think I’d done before. T: “Nice glasses” (brief discussion about reading glasses). I started with how I felt I'd probably been annoying him by e-mailing him after last session to reschedule from Tuesday to Monday, then when he changed it and responded with "Have a good week!" I e-mailed to confirm we were still on for Friday. He said that was such a minor exchange he'd forgotten it had happened. He's not bothered by stuff like that at all. It takes 30 seconds. That he'd rather I confirm that I still had the appointment than just not show up. I said my fear was that I'd show up and he'd be all "What are you doing here?" He seemed to understand that.

I said how last session, when we initially opted to schedule for Tuesday rather than Monday, he'd made a comment of "That will get you back on the 3 days in between schedule" (as in Friday to Tuesday). And that sort of made me feel like he didn't want to see me earlier. He said no, wasn't about that. I said how if I come twice a week, it's basically going to be 3 days between one and 2 days between the other (or 4 and 3, depending on how you look at it). I said going Friday then Monday is the same time in between as Monday to Thursday. T: "No it isn't." Me: "Yes it is!" T, counting to himself: "Oh I guess you're right! Apparently I need to repeat elementary school math."

I went back to my printout. Said I'd felt pretty depressed past few days. And also feel scared about relationship with Him. How he's seemed very caring lately, and when he makes mistakes, he apologizes and fixes them, which are good things. But that I'm scared he'll ultimately hurt me. How I'd talked to a friend recently about the ex-MC stuff, and she said it was like a trauma, really. How that had rung true for me. So I thought maybe I needed to process that more with him. He mostly just listened through all of that.

Then I said I thought I needed to discuss some transference stuff, too. How I had started to broach topic last week, then when he asked me to explain what I was saying, I said "Never mind, I don't think I can explain it." But it was actually fear of talking about it. I said (in session), "I ran away from it like a jackrabbit. Wait, rabbits don't run, they hop, why did I say that?" I said part of why I was confirming we still had today's session is that I wanted to talk about the topic more, knowing I could then come in again Monday (so not a long break).

I said I was scared to talk about things because ex-MC had always said--that it was even on his website bio--that all feelings are OK, that we can't control our feelings. That it's our behaviors we can control. I said but then it seemed he rejected me for my feelings of love. And so I'm worried about sharing things.

I then said how I think part of what was so hard about the ending with ex-MC is that, I'd thought, on some level, that maybe he loved me, too. Not romantically, just that he really cared about me--but more than caring. T: "I think I get what you're trying to say." But then ex-MC’s reaction at the end made me feel like maybe I'd been wrong about that. How he probably cares, but... I said how ex-T had basically said she loved me once. How I'd said I loved her, and how I know the therapeutic relationship is weird and she probably couldn't reciprocate. She agreed about it being unique, adding, "Not that I don't love you, too." And she'd mentioned about loving another client as well.

I said I felt like I'd gone on a tangent there, and T said, "Yes, it's like we've gone down a road we weren't expecting." I compared it to the weird routes that Google Maps sometimes sends me on.

In trying to shift back to transference with current T topic, I mentioned again about being scared to share certain thoughts/feelings with him. He said that he wouldn't respond to all feelings well, how some things shouldn't be shared. Like if I client were to threaten him or belittle him, that wouldn't be OK. Which...those weren't the sorts of feelings I was talking about at all! But I was starting to get the "maybe don't share what you want to share" vibe (Note: It wasn't "I love you," and I was afraid T thought that's what I was getting at, so I sent him e-mail after session to clarify that wasn't what I was thinking or wanting to talk about. He said it hadn't even crossed his mind...)

Then he said how once you say something, you can't go back and un-say it. He gave example of a man telling his wife that he was attracted to her sister (again, nothing at all like what I wanted to discuss!) So that also gave me a "Maybe you shouldn't talk about your feelings" vibe. (Which I also mentioned in the e-mail--his response: "Nor did I intend to imply that sharing - or talking about our relationship - is a problem." Which...he needs to become more aware about what he's implying!)

I still opted to share something. Said how I'd been feeling really sad on Wednesday and laid down, just kind of trying to shut out the world. And then I took the stone he gave me and held it for a bit, and it made me feel better. I said, "I hope that's not too weird to you." T: "Only a little bit weird. Maybe like 10% weird, 90% not weird. Does that make sense?" Me: ....

We were basically out of time (he clearly hadn’t realized, even though I kept saying “I know we have to stop soon, but...”), but we talked about the transitional object for another few minutes. He said how it seemed like a talisman in a way. How people who are securely attached can feel caring within them. But someone less securely attached might need something external to remind them.

He said if someone had gotten certain positive messages in childhood, then It’s like an onion. If someone said something hurtful, it might just go through outer layers but not get to center. But if someone didn’t get those messages, then they wouldn’t have those protective layers.

It had been an hour so I already had my phone out to schedule. T looked at clock and said he hadn’t realized we’d gone over, adding “I blame you, because you brought up a particularly juicy topic.” (He was clearly joking about the blaming me part.) I said to apologize to his next client on my behalf (incidentally no one was in waiting room when I left, so maybe it was his lunch break?)

Scheduled for Thursday (confirmed Monday too) went over and paid, shook hands, as he said “Have a good weekend!” I said “you too” and left. Ended up have no some email exchanges later.
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  #487  
Old May 13, 2018, 09:25 PM
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precaryous precaryous is offline
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Member Since: May 2014
Location: on the wing of an eagle
Posts: 3,901
Therapy yesterday. We talked about the mh hospital again. But 1) we could never find a psychiatrist to take me or my insurance the last time this subject came up, 2) I have already been on a multitude of antidepressants and they don’t work for me, 3) the inpatient psych would screw up my present regimen and I would never get them back..4) I’m not suicidal...so I doubt a hospital would take me anyway. 5) that would FRUSTRATE me if I did decide to try to go...and I don’t need more FRUSTATION now.
Not going.
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  #488  
Old May 14, 2018, 04:45 PM
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LonesomeTonight LonesomeTonight is offline
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T today. Sat down. I said I was nervous. Said was sorry about all the e-mails, that I guess I'd slipped into a maladaptive pattern in looking for reassurance from him (like I used to with ex-MC). He said it wasn't a problem, that he basically read all the e-mails at once and took maybe 5 minutes total. I said how I was annoyed with myself for sending the drunk one Friday night (about the stone), because I'd typed something up right after session and managed not to send it. He said I did sit with it for 24 hours, so that was good. I said more like 12, but yeah.

Said that I'd also sent drunk e-mail to ex-MC, and he responded last night. That I was a bit upset about it. T: What do you want to start with? Me: Uh...I don't know. Silence. T: How about if I start by asking you a question? Me: OK. T: Why do you think the stone has such meaning to you?

Me: ...Um, well, uh... T: Let me give you the example of what would be the 90% not weird that I mentioned. Do you think it's that it represents this space, this room? Because it came from this room, which is a safe space? Me: Hm, I guess that's part of it, but maybe not just that? T: I'd consider myself a part of this room right now, or maybe just having a therapist in this chair. Me: Well, more like that. But not just any random therapist. T: Would something from ex-MC's office have the same effect? Oh, maybe he's a bad example. Me: His old office used to make me feel really safe. Less so his new one. T: Oh, so maybe spaces are really important to you then. Me: Kinda? I mean, it's calming in here, but I don't know if it would be same effect if I was sitting in here alone.

T: OK. Let me explain what the 10% creepy part is (I'd used "weird" before, he changed to "creepy," which made me feel worse...). If the stone was about me, that it came from me, that would bother me. Me: ... T: Like if you thought of it as a part of me and that's why it has meaning. Me: ... T: Because it shouldn't be about me (or something like that). Me: I mean, I know that I don't know who [first name last name] is out in the world. So it couldn't really be connected to him. T: No, I don't just mean that person, I mean me as a therapist, too. Me: Oh. But... Didn't you say that was part of the room? T: Yes, a part of the room, but mostly the room. If it's about me, it's different. Like if the significance is that I held the stone and then handed it to you. Me: Oh...because I think that maybe is part of it.

I said I thought maybe it was more of a spectrum sort of with part being the room, part him. He said something about it being a part of him. I said it wasn't like, say, I'd managed to get snippings of his hair and was holding onto them. He said he'd put that on other end of same spectrum with stone representing him. Me: [crying and hiding my face]. T: Why are you reacting like that? Me:... I just...I think it is partly about you to me. T: Oh. Me: When you first gave me the stone...I thought that meant you were comfortable working with attachment and transference with me, like a sign of that kind of. Since you said you hadn't given a client a transitional object before.

T: Well, actually, I felt kind of put on the spot that day. You asked me for it near end of session (I thought it was halfway through, but whatever), you had a big interview the next day, I wanted you to be at your best. Me: Oh. T: So I figured I'd just give you something for the interview. Me: I guess I should have given it back after the interview... I can give it back. T: It's OK. Me:... He also compared it to a fan going onto Bruce Willis' property and taking something from his trash and treasuring it because it belonged to him. Then he said, "Well, except I gave this to you." I said "Exactly it's different."

I think I asked why it would be bad if it was about him? Trying to remember how we got to this part. He said because if it was about him, it wouldn't be healthy for me. Me: ... T: If you were to develop transference for me, that probably wouldn't be good. Me: [In my head: How do you not realize I already have transference? Pretty sure I told you that!] Uh. T: I mean, if you developed transference, would you even want to keep working with me? Me: Actually, I think I would. If you'd be willing to work with me. I couldn't really work on it with ex-MC because of the situation. I mean, I intentionally chose a male T who was a bit older than me, figuring it could come up, then I could work through it. (For the record, he knew all this, I was pretty up front with him when I started seeing him, and he knew all the history with ex-MC, so...)

I mentioned how I knew he wasn't that trained in transference stuff, but would he still be willing to work with me on it? He said yes. He seemed very uncomfortable, like his body language, during this part, fidgety. I said I was just scared we'd get partway through working on it, then he'd realize was too much or he didn't feel comfortable, I'd come in and he'd hand me a bunch of referrals. He said he'd only ever opted to refer one client out, and that was like a physical threat where police had to be called.

I said I was also worried that he would *want* to refer me out but feel like he couldn't because of what had happened with ex-MC. He said he'd be honest with me if things were bothering him, that he wouldn't let it build up and then suddenly terminate me. I said OK. Somewhere in there he asked what working with transference meant for me. I said figuring out/playing out patterns, figuring out stuff I was missing from childhood, making new patterns. He seemed to agree with that, said he thought I'd figured some of that stuff out already. I said some, but more work to be done.

Was almost end. He said he was sorry we didn't get to ex-MC e-mail. I said was OK. He asked if we were OK, if there was more we needed to talk about. I said I wasn't sure, expressed some worries again. He just seemed like particularly intense and caring in that last 10 minutes, like just how he was looking at me really intently and seemed to be trying to understand. Which pushed some of the other stuff out of my head for a bit. Right at end, he asked again, "Are we OK?" I said yes, I thought so. Scheduled, paid while I mentioned Mother's Day card my D had made for me. T: Right, I forgot, Happy Mother's Day! Me: Thanks. Shook hands, "Good luck out there today." Me: "Thanks." T: Don't get rained on (it was cloudy). Me: I'll try, you too.

Tears started coming again in the car and some of what he said earlier hit me. Seeing him again tomorrow because I'm trying to figure out if this is workable or if I should just cut my losses and terminate (which would hurt like hell right on the heels of terminating with ex-MC...and over feelings/transference again, I guess.) Yeah, I should probably have waited till my Thursday session, but I'm hoping either he can clarify some of this (like maybe if he thought about it more), and then it won't be swirling around in my head for days. Or that he can make it more clear whether I want to continue working with him (at least on anything attachment/transference related) and I can start figuring out where to go from here.
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  #489  
Old May 14, 2018, 04:51 PM
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The first half of the session was terrible. I shut down and couldn't express myself at all and just sat there curled up and crying. I could tell T didn't know what to say or do.

Then, because I'd said that part of me had wanted to come to the session with a duvet and hide under it, he asked if I wanted him to go and get a sheet, and maybe I could hide. I said it'd feel silly but maybe we could try.

So he got me a sheet, and I hid under it, and I just peeked out at him a bit, and it was somehow much, much easier to speak to him, to tell him what I thought and how I felt and how hurt I'd been that he hadn't replied to my email.

He said he was sad to hear that I'd felt like he hated me because he hadn't replied, and he promised to always acknowledge my emails from now on.

For a while I hid myself completely, in the warm dark safety under the sheet. I wondered if he felt silly talking to me while I was like that and he said he didn't, although he hadn't had many conversations with human-centred blue mountains. I giggled and I guess that must have been quite funny from his point of view - a giggling blue mountain.

Last edited by lucozader; May 14, 2018 at 07:26 PM.
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  #490  
Old May 14, 2018, 04:54 PM
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LT

Ugh that was so uncomfortable to read. He's for sure not comfortable with it even if he claims to be. I know terminating would be hard but so would working with someone who won't embrace and kindly work with all this. I'd run. I could not work with a t like that. If you choose to stick with him you are super brave and I wish you well. I'm sorry he was like this
Very unsettling. All the best to you
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  #491  
Old May 14, 2018, 06:44 PM
toomanycats toomanycats is offline
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My session was good. Different, but good. Felt so fast, because we were so focused & because Parts were forward, so time can get a little wonky when that is the case. We were dealing with a Part that has been keeping me from sleeping. (Every time I start to fall asleep, it startles me awake with cold anxiety and "we started to sleep!" Edit to add: this level of insomnia has made me have to go inpatient in the past... And I've had to take a lot of medication recently ..have finally slept the last 2 nights though.)

This part stayed present the whole time in our session today...some new info came out
Things the part said:

1. "Maybe if I stop myself from falling asleep, I can stop myself from dying"

2. "This is the best practice I can get; it's at least something I can control"

3. It wants to watch death over and over and over again so that it can gather information, know what to expect/what dying will be like, and "perfect" a dying plan... is obsessed with perfection

4. The Part accepts that death is inevitable but wants to be in control of it. Would be greatly relieved by the legalization and availability of dr.-assisted suicide because then, if it came down to it, it could take control of the situation AND there would be medical professionals who could tell it what to expect


C thinks this part needs to be shown both sympathy for the enormity of the job...the weight it carries as well as appreciation. C says he has a great appreciation for this part because, without it, he doesn't think I'd be here.
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  #492  
Old May 14, 2018, 06:52 PM
toomanycats toomanycats is offline
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LT - while your session sounds so flipping hard & your T sounds like he may not be the best fit for working with transference & attachment, I want to point out how amazingly brave and strong it is for you to continue to be honest and open with him: to say "it is kind of about you, not the space" rather than what I think a lot of people might do and slip into denial just to save the "relationship." - that always leads to MORE pain and nothing good.

Continue to be honest, LT. There's NOTHING WRONG with you or what you want or need. I promise you that. His discomfort is his own issues that he should be working out with supervisors to become a better therapist. Transference is a powerful tool in therapy -- fear of it, avoiding it, is doing a disservice to the therapy and the client.
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  #493  
Old May 14, 2018, 07:10 PM
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  #494  
Old May 14, 2018, 07:17 PM
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velcro003 velcro003 is offline
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welp, therapy was an EPIC FAIL today.

i was undecided if i wanted to tell her how i reacted to her cancelling on me sort of last minute (late last friday, when my session was on monday, and for something she should have known ahead of time). mostly i didn't want to, because i am not angry about it anymore, but i also know it was an extreme reaction to her cancelling.

she started off by saying she needs to end exactly at 30 after from now on, for reasons i understand...but we used to go to 40-45 after, so that blows. i think that set the tone, and i said ti was fine (because it is, because am i going to say NO, I DEMAND YOU GIVE ME EXTRA TIME).

Then she asked how i thought therapy was going (i was sitting in complete silence and was so stretched away from her, my back started hurting halfway in), and i sort of shrugged. after a few more silent minutes on my end, i said i contemplating cancelling today. she asked if i was thinking of just cancelling today or for future? I told her I thought about both options but in the end decided not to.

Of course she asked why...and the rest of the hour (aka: 15 minutes in) was me torturing myself because I could NOT get myself to say that i overreacted to her email cancelling, spiraling downward. There was no way i was ever planning on telling her that i was furious, but if i said "overreacted" it seems more "normal."

Except I couldn't do it.

And then, she said that she knows i email often after sessions, and that it seems i can better able to tell her my feelings which we both know is true. So she suggested that I write on Sunday, and bring it in her to monday, that way she can read it and we can process what I was actually feeling instaed of my email getting lost in the the week.

I abruptly got up (at 28 after, because i won't ever go over now), put my check on the table (which i normally hand her--also in which she always ends sessions and gives me time to get up) and said "Its fine, i can do that (meaning the writing)," and got the H out of there.

UGH. She was like "Uhhh...okay. Have a good week." I knwo she was thrown off by my abruptness, but I was so effing mad at myself that I couldn't handle another second.

Everything feels bad.

I know she is trying to help, and it does make sense that I bring in my writings so we can actually talk about it in session (which will make me so much more nervous). 99% of the time we don't address what I write in emails.

But GOD, I HATE myself for not being able to talk about something as simple as "I reacted badly to you cancelling." I bet that thought was furthest from her mind as she thinks I dread every week and is wondering if she is helping, and hopefully not harming me.

What I've never been able to tell her is that I spend most of the week looking forward to therapy, as it is the one place I actually am myself, for better or worse. Except I do get really nervous most of the time, and I can always verbalize that.

The part that shuts down and runs away wants to quit. Really bad. I don't even know how she can help anyway, as my problems are so nebulous and I don't even know myself 90% of the time, and I 100% of the time don't know what I want, so how can she help that?

Except the other part that does look forward going to therapy just deflates and goes completely hopeless at the one outlet I have.

OMG. I accidentally clicked on a tab, and mad dash hit the back button and psychcentral saved my text. Thank god for small miracles.

Possible trigger:
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  #495  
Old May 14, 2018, 07:32 PM
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velcro003 velcro003 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DP_2017 View Post
LT

Ugh that was so uncomfortable to read. He's for sure not comfortable with it even if he claims to be. I know terminating would be hard but so would working with someone who won't embrace and kindly work with all this. I'd run. I could not work with a t like that. If you choose to stick with him you are super brave and I wish you well. I'm sorry he was like this
Very unsettling. All the best to you
Yes, uncomfortable to read is a good way to put it. I don't have a good feeling about him being able to work through this stuff with you, LT
Quote:
Originally Posted by toomanycats View Post
LT - while your session sounds so flipping hard & your T sounds like he may not be the best fit for working with transference & attachment, I want to point out how amazingly brave and strong it is for you to continue to be honest and open with him: to say "it is kind of about you, not the space" rather than what I think a lot of people might do and slip into denial just to save the "relationship." - that always leads to MORE pain and nothing good.

Continue to be honest, LT. There's NOTHING WRONG with you or what you want or need. I promise you that. His discomfort is his own issues that he should be working out with supervisors to become a better therapist. Transference is a powerful tool in therapy -- fear of it, avoiding it, is doing a disservice to the therapy and the client.
AND, YASS GIRLLLLL, you are brave as $h!t!!! If you read my session account, you will see I basically said nothing for an hour, and couldn't even get out the fact I overreacted to her cancelling last week.

On a different note, I am trying hard to push past my defense of SHUT DOWN/RUN AWAY, and asked if I could see her later this week.
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  #496  
Old May 15, 2018, 02:03 PM
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SalingerEsme SalingerEsme is offline
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LT, I don't know how I missed all this, and I am reading to catch up. You are brave to dig in with this and stay the course. The T is brutally honest, and also confuses me all the more about what psychotherapy actually IS. I have literally read 100 plus books, and they all talk about The Relationship and The Transference like it is a big important expected part of the process. I am not honest with my T like you are with yours, but I know he would say/ feel the same as your T. If I asked him for an object, he might terminate me, and he often says patients do not understand what the relationship is not(????). I wish someone would tell me what we are supposed to be doing/feeling and what they want. I look forward to your write ups of sessions, and you seem like such an engaged client - it isn't like you miss sessions or don't care, nor do you stalk him or turn up at his kid's school. My T wouldn't allow the outside contact he does, but he chooses to allow it. I am on your journey with you in the sense of really invested in what happens, and wishing you a safe , productive process of communication in which you are honored .

Quote:
Originally Posted by LonesomeTonight View Post
T today. Sat down. I said I was nervous. Said was sorry about all the e-mails, that I guess I'd slipped into a maladaptive pattern in looking for reassurance from him (like I used to with ex-MC). He said it wasn't a problem, that he basically read all the e-mails at once and took maybe 5 minutes total. I said how I was annoyed with myself for sending the drunk one Friday night (about the stone), because I'd typed something up right after session and managed not to send it. He said I did sit with it for 24 hours, so that was good. I said more like 12, but yeah.

Said that I'd also sent drunk e-mail to ex-MC, and he responded last night. That I was a bit upset about it. T: What do you want to start with? Me: Uh...I don't know. Silence. T: How about if I start by asking you a question? Me: OK. T: Why do you think the stone has such meaning to you?

Me: ...Um, well, uh... T: Let me give you the example of what would be the 90% not weird that I mentioned. Do you think it's that it represents this space, this room? Because it came from this room, which is a safe space? Me: Hm, I guess that's part of it, but maybe not just that? T: I'd consider myself a part of this room right now, or maybe just having a therapist in this chair. Me: Well, more like that. But not just any random therapist. T: Would something from ex-MC's office have the same effect? Oh, maybe he's a bad example. Me: His old office used to make me feel really safe. Less so his new one. T: Oh, so maybe spaces are really important to you then. Me: Kinda? I mean, it's calming in here, but I don't know if it would be same effect if I was sitting in here alone.

T: OK. Let me explain what the 10% creepy part is (I'd used "weird" before, he changed to "creepy," which made me feel worse...). If the stone was about me, that it came from me, that would bother me. Me: ... T: Like if you thought of it as a part of me and that's why it has meaning. Me: ... T: Because it shouldn't be about me (or something like that). Me: I mean, I know that I don't know who [first name last name] is out in the world. So it couldn't really be connected to him. T: No, I don't just mean that person, I mean me as a therapist, too. Me: Oh. But... Didn't you say that was part of the room? T: Yes, a part of the room, but mostly the room. If it's about me, it's different. Like if the significance is that I held the stone and then handed it to you. Me: Oh...because I think that maybe is part of it.

I said I thought maybe it was more of a spectrum sort of with part being the room, part him. He said something about it being a part of him. I said it wasn't like, say, I'd managed to get snippings of his hair and was holding onto them. He said he'd put that on other end of same spectrum with stone representing him. Me: [crying and hiding my face]. T: Why are you reacting like that? Me:... I just...I think it is partly about you to me. T: Oh. Me: When you first gave me the stone...I thought that meant you were comfortable working with attachment and transference with me, like a sign of that kind of. Since you said you hadn't given a client a transitional object before.

T: Well, actually, I felt kind of put on the spot that day. You asked me for it near end of session (I thought it was halfway through, but whatever), you had a big interview the next day, I wanted you to be at your best. Me: Oh. T: So I figured I'd just give you something for the interview. Me: I guess I should have given it back after the interview... I can give it back. T: It's OK. Me:... He also compared it to a fan going onto Bruce Willis' property and taking something from his trash and treasuring it because it belonged to him. Then he said, "Well, except I gave this to you." I said "Exactly it's different."

I think I asked why it would be bad if it was about him? Trying to remember how we got to this part. He said because if it was about him, it wouldn't be healthy for me. Me: ... T: If you were to develop transference for me, that probably wouldn't be good. Me: [In my head: How do you not realize I already have transference? Pretty sure I told you that!] Uh. T: I mean, if you developed transference, would you even want to keep working with me? Me: Actually, I think I would. If you'd be willing to work with me. I couldn't really work on it with ex-MC because of the situation. I mean, I intentionally chose a male T who was a bit older than me, figuring it could come up, then I could work through it. (For the record, he knew all this, I was pretty up front with him when I started seeing him, and he knew all the history with ex-MC, so...)

I mentioned how I knew he wasn't that trained in transference stuff, but would he still be willing to work with me on it? He said yes. He seemed very uncomfortable, like his body language, during this part, fidgety. I said I was just scared we'd get partway through working on it, then he'd realize was too much or he didn't feel comfortable, I'd come in and he'd hand me a bunch of referrals. He said he'd only ever opted to refer one client out, and that was like a physical threat where police had to be called.

I said I was also worried that he would *want* to refer me out but feel like he couldn't because of what had happened with ex-MC. He said he'd be honest with me if things were bothering him, that he wouldn't let it build up and then suddenly terminate me. I said OK. Somewhere in there he asked what working with transference meant for me. I said figuring out/playing out patterns, figuring out stuff I was missing from childhood, making new patterns. He seemed to agree with that, said he thought I'd figured some of that stuff out already. I said some, but more work to be done.

Was almost end. He said he was sorry we didn't get to ex-MC e-mail. I said was OK. He asked if we were OK, if there was more we needed to talk about. I said I wasn't sure, expressed some worries again. He just seemed like particularly intense and caring in that last 10 minutes, like just how he was looking at me really intently and seemed to be trying to understand. Which pushed some of the other stuff out of my head for a bit. Right at end, he asked again, "Are we OK?" I said yes, I thought so. Scheduled, paid while I mentioned Mother's Day card my D had made for me. T: Right, I forgot, Happy Mother's Day! Me: Thanks. Shook hands, "Good luck out there today." Me: "Thanks." T: Don't get rained on (it was cloudy). Me: I'll try, you too.

Tears started coming again in the car and some of what he said earlier hit me. Seeing him again tomorrow because I'm trying to figure out if this is workable or if I should just cut my losses and terminate (which would hurt like hell right on the heels of terminating with ex-MC...and over feelings/transference again, I guess.) Yeah, I should probably have waited till my Thursday session, but I'm hoping either he can clarify some of this (like maybe if he thought about it more), and then it won't be swirling around in my head for days. Or that he can make it more clear whether I want to continue working with him (at least on anything attachment/transference related) and I can start figuring out where to go from here.
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  #497  
Old May 15, 2018, 04:16 PM
bobcat21 bobcat21 is offline
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I met my new therapist today which oddly enough I thought he was pdoc for some reason but instead I found out he was a nurse practitioner which but it was okay by me. I thought the season was really really good he was really chatty ( compared to my current T) and asked a little bit about me and I said I love road trips and he said aren’t they the best?? I also told him what medications I was currently taking and how some didn’t work in the best including my current one and he recommended a SSRi I took as a teenager which I thought was a good idea. I really think I’ll keep him and now comes the hard part telling my current T we must part ways. I just do not know what to do. Ghosting definitely not a option and me calling her I’m so afraid since I’ll be 100 percent honest she can be a little aggravated on the phone at times. I was thinking of writing a letter would that be creepy?? Please please help me with any ideas. I definitely need them!
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  #498  
Old May 15, 2018, 07:35 PM
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What a nightmare. The person I trusted most in life, just became another A-hole in my life. I don't think I'll ever look at or speak o him again. I wish nothing but **** for him in life.

Worst session ever and I don't see hope for it being fixed.
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  #499  
Old May 15, 2018, 07:59 PM
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He started out asking about the state testing last week. He seemed genuinely excited when I told him my students did better than expected. He seemed even more excited I didn't engage in SH after our last session.

Talked about Sunday a bit. Said I still grieved the lack of relationship with my bio mom. He asked how I felt in my body talking about all of it. I said I was struggling to sit still. "Okay, so don't then." I paced around his shoebox office for a few minutes while we talked more about mom. Also talked about agency before I sat down. "Thats right," he said. "You aren't trapped."

He asked about the antidepressant. I said I hadn't noticed anything aside from being sleepy on Saturday. He seemed to look up the med, because he said he'd never heard of it last week and this week said, "well it's an SSRI so it'll take a few weeks to notice any difference."

He said that I was doing well. That he's seen growth. I compared therapy to losing weight. Perhaps I'm the last person to see it. I said i felt miserable that an antidepressant is necessary. Then said, "no, I'm doing what I need in this period of my life to take care of myself."

He said he loved that statement. How it's just further evidence of growth. He said he felt like we're ready to move onto EMDR. First there are some things he wants to do. Today we did a "dry run." It was okay. That took up basically the rest of the session.

There was one moment where he mentioned CSA, in a "we should be mindful of this" way. He said I reacted to its mention. It's because I actively try not to think about it. It's real, but far away. For him to make that statement so matter of fact startled me. "Did you find my statement to be dismissive? I hope not." I said it wasn't.

Took me a couple extra minutes to settle down to leave. He mentioned he's going on vacation in July as I paid. I said last year was hard when ExT went on vacation since it's my not busy month. He made a note and said we can try to schedule right before he leaves and right when he gets back.

I like him.
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  #500  
Old May 15, 2018, 08:17 PM
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Member Since: Feb 2015
Location: US
Posts: 22,081
Quote:
Originally Posted by DP_2017 View Post
What a nightmare. The person I trusted most in life, just became another A-hole in my life. I don't think I'll ever look at or speak o him again. I wish nothing but **** for him in life.

Worst session ever and I don't see hope for it being fixed.

I'm so sorry
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attentionThis is an old thread. You probably should not post your reply to it, as the original poster is unlikely to see it.




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