In Session Today: Part IV

I do too, LT.

Thanks, LC and Art. I was nowhere near this brave 6.5 years ago when I started seeing ex-T. Or even probably 5, maybe 6 years ago. But I think it just hit some point where I have to go for broke, take all the chances. If a T can't handle me as I am, with whatever needs I have,...I need to be out of there. I'm still uncertain about current T. I have this feeling about it, that I've had from the very beginning, that he can help me. And he has so far in many ways. But if he can't handle attachment or transference from me, I may have to walk away. It seems like he's really trying to work with it, like I've given several opportunities where I was ready to just leave, but I didn't get the sense from him that I should. He's trying. As he's said a couple times (including Monday), he's trying to feel this out along with me. I know I'm pushing beyond some of the areas where he has expertise, and that's probably really risky. Yet something, some instinct, tells me to stick with him, that he can really help me with all of this. I hope I'm not horribly wrong...

There was a lot that went on yesterday. This is going to be a long post.

Before the session started, I was waiting in the waiting room for about 5 minutes. The sound machine was on the “thunderstorm” setting, which was triggering to me. When T brought me back, he asked how I was doing, and I told him that I was admittedly mildly anxious and triggered. I told him that it was because of the sound machine, and he asked if I changed the setting. “No?” It would never even cross my mind to touch anything in the waiting room. He went on to tell me that there were some children in the waiting room the other day and they were playing with the machine.

I laughed and said that I was fully aware of the precociousness of children. Somehow that conversation segued into Peeps. Peeps are disgusting, and T agreed. I told him my joke about Peeps and he laughed hard and informed me that he was going to steal the joke. I knew I liked him for a reason.

Then we settled down into more serious things. He asked what I wanted to talk about. I said I was torn. I wanted to not be there, to finish processing from two weeks ago, that I wanted to talk about the thing with my dad, and then I also wanted to talk about cute animals and be best friends with him.

He said that it was normal to have those “best friend” feelings with the therapist. And I know that it is. He asked if I had any idea where those feelings come from, and I said that it was avoidance. That I wanted to start dipping my toe into more difficult topics, but that it’s scary. It’s easier to talk about cute animals and be his best friend.

He said that first he was glad I was there, fighting the urge to not come. Then he said that perhaps we could talk about why the noise machine triggered me. I told him about it, which I’ve discussed on PC before…basically a time in my childhood during a thunderstorm where my mother and one of her boyfriends were verbally abusive. I was also in a closet when this happened. T asked me if the feelings of being confined took me back to another time where I felt uncomfortable in a small space. It does. But I wasn’t able to tell him what the connection was. I’m hoping that I’m able to tell him next week. Upon later reflection that will be a really good memory to process in EMDR, though I imagine it will be frightening for me.

I started to cry when T asked me about small spaces. He said I was doing a good job sitting with that feeling, even though I wasn’t comfortable telling him what the memory was. That I didn’t need to. A similar conversation from last week came up, where I am doing a good job tolerating difficult emotions compared to when we first met. I said that I agreed, though I don’t give myself as much agency in that as he does. I see it as more of a function of the antidepressant doing its job. He said that it’d be difficult to figure out where my work ended and where the antidepressant began, but that it was obvious that I was working hard to tap into difficult things, both in and out of the therapy room.

There was a lull in the conversation where T said that he wanted to ask me about something that I’d mentioned at the beginning. What was the thing around my dad? There was a moment a few days ago where my stepmom was upset by something that was going on with my dad. That I was very upset by it, and my H very astutely pointed out that my reaction to the thing with my dad seemed out of proportion to the amount that what was going on affected me. T asked me who I felt like I was trying to attend to or take care of. I said that it made sense that it related back to me.

T asked me to think of a time where I felt similarly to when I had the emotion to my mom. I told him a story about an event that happened my freshman year of high school. I was attending a boarding school and there came a point in which the school said for me to continue to attend and live on campus, I needed to meet weekly with the in-school psychologist. My dad fought it at first before he eventually acquiesced.

T asked me what I think that I needed to hear as a freshman. I struggled to tap into that. T said, “okay, let’s try something.” He grabbed the chair that sits at his desk and turned it so that it was facing me. “Talk to the younger version of you. What would you say to her that she needed to hear?”

Anyone who has followed my story knows that the empty chair technique was basically my exT’s favorite technique to use with me. I always hated it, and apparently I was very triggered by it. I instantly got defensive, angry, and refused to talk to T.

T asked what I was feeling, and I said I was very angry. “Okay, am I right to guess that you’re thinking about something related to your former therapist?”
“Yes.”
“Okay, and we were just talking about your father and how it felt when he didn’t hear you, right?”
“Yes.”
“And you said that the former therapist was somewhat of a father figure, yes?”
“Yeah…”
“Okay, so am I jumping too far or do you feel like that connection is accurate?”
I sighed. The connection made sense, and I told him so.
“Okay then, Daisy. What do you need?”
I pointed to the chair. “I need to not do that.”
“Okay, thank you for telling me that explicitly. I want to make sure that you feel heard in this room, and it’s easier to hear you when you say exactly what you need.”

He then went onto talk about the connections between the story about my dad and how I felt unheard, how my mom made me feel wrong for being emotional while in the closet, and the story last week about how my dad told me not to cry when I was a child. “I’m really getting a very clear picture that the message that you received as a child was that it wasn’t okay for you to express emotions. But it is okay.”

I told him I knew that it would make my life infinitely better if I were able to express my emotions in the moment versus bottling everything up. “Yeah,” he replied, “but if it were that easy to have the cognition, then I’d see you…never again and you’d be just fine.”

I chuckled and looked at my watch. “And on that note, let’s schedule for next week.”

After we scheduled, he was sitting there awkwardly, waiting for me to leave. “Umm, do you want money? Because if you want to give me a freebie that’s fine, I’ll leave.”

He laughed and apologized. He really isn’t good at the administrative bits. But he’s such a good therapist. I’m glad I stuck with him through a difficult beginning.

I would like to know the Peep joke, Daisy

LT: Also commend you on your directness and willing to take things in your own hands. I absolutely am the opposite despite my T always telling me "We can and should talk about EVERYTHING in therapy! And I mean everything!," and then she goes onto list just about every scary topic one could think of to talk about in therapy.

In my head I'm like "You cray-cray, T. It ain't going to happen." She has gotten some stuff out of me because she is a really good questioner.

My t is a really good questioner too.

What is the correct way to eat a Peep?

Throw it directly into the garbage.

I had group therapy today, but didn't really get a chance to speak. The other members were talking about how to deal with their anger, and I don't really get angry often. I just get sad sometimes. I think maybe I need to join a new group. I called and left a voicemail for a therapist who does a mindfulness group.

Correct answer, lol.

Seconded!

went to see t yesterday

I've been struggling again with my thoughts/voices

t called me out in my not eating. we talked about sabotage again... he was asking which part is keeping me from eating... and ultimately from getting better. I felt confused and said some things that I guess didn't make sense. t had a puzzled look on his face. I made the face back to him and he said why are you looking like that? I said because that's you... that's what you're doing!

t paused and sat for a minute. t said how can I help you. I said I just want to turn my brain off. t said I can teach you mindfulness. do you want to try? I nodded

t said get comfy. close your eyes. t guided me to focus on my breath and if I notice my thoughts drifting away to gently focus them back on my breathing with no judgements

I told t I had planned on hanging out with my friend today but she's bailing on me. I cried because sometimes being around people is the only useful distraction for me from my brain.

I told t that I sleep a lot now because it's the only way to deal. I said but thats pathetic... to sleep all the time. t said it's not pathetic.. he said my meds aren't working right. he said that's taking care of yourself

t wanted to come up with a plan for the rest of the day... but I didn't really have any other options of ppl to ask to hang out.

but after I left t my friend messaged me and said she could hang out. I was so happy n relieved. I had been seriously dreading another day trapped in my mind prison

I texted t to let him know I was gonna hang with her cause he seemed bit worried

he sent back Yay!

it did help to hang out with her

Wow, turns out when you are not so severely depressed that thinking and speaking seem impossible, therapy can go by quickly AND feel productive!

TRIGGER WARNING IN CONTENT OF POST of SUI/talk of death:











My T asked if I had called the wellness place, and I had not. I told her I had a better week, so I am fine. She disagrees and says that when I can't get out of bed for an entire weekend, or have to drag myself out to go visit really good friends, and when I think about suicide as often as I have been, that is not "fine" and "normal."

I told her that I think I lost perspective on myself, because all of that does seem normal to me. More comfortable than going to a place where I am going to have to give up all my bad coping mechanisms, forced to talk to other people, and *gasp* maybe feel better. I told her I was scared to feel better. I might have to be pro-active about my life, whereas at least with depression, that idea is laughable. Plus when you are feeling better, it is only farther to fall.

She said that I could not have gotten any further down than I have been unless I was dead. I did have to agree with her, that the week before the only way I could have gone further down was be dead.

I still don't know what I want to do, bc even though I stopped taking abilify, she said that it did have an effect on me. Even though it gave me too much energy (severe restlessness ALL THE TIME, do not recommend), I went for a hike this weekend and didn't have to drag myself out, and am considering going out dancing with friends on Friday night. She said what I had been doing psychiatry-wise has not been working, so she wants me to continue to work with my psychiatrist to either lower the dose or try something else.

Then I talked to her about how since I had a better week and am not in "crisis," it would be silly to go to this place. She disagrees, but agreed with me that they could always turn me down if they didn't think I was a good fit.

I showed her some art I made, lovingly titled "Tendrils of Death
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We talked a little bit about how in my black hole of childhood memories (3ish-11ish), that I see myself as been a pretty well-behaved child, and caused no problems, so everything was perfect! (Not perfect, but you know, really good)

She doesn't really believe me and says that when people first have children, its tough on everyone, especially in my case where I was born so premature and extra needs. And the fact my parents were teenagers.

All in all it was a good session. This almost never happens

I still have to decide what on earth I am going to do about this wellness place.

T yesterday. Sat down, and he said he had to apologize to me, that he'd intended to reread my e-mail from Thursday that morning but time got away from him. I said was OK, that I had a copy with me if he wanted to read. He asked if I wanted to read part to him, to have him read whole thing, have him skim it. I opted for "have him skim it" and handed it to him.

I sat there awkwardly for a moment, then noticed the small sand tray on the table next to me. I pulled a gecko out of the sand onto a rock. There was a tiny skunk I picked up. I toyed with it standing on its front legs spraying the gecko, but opted to just move it a little closer. T was done reading, and I said "Please don't put any significance to what I did in sand table." He made some joke about analyzing it. I said what I was going to do with the skunk, and he said "Thanks for not putting it that way and leaving it" (I assume for other clients).

I asked if he had an idea where to start. He didn't know. He asked me. I didn't know. Long pause. I forget the order of some of this, so not sure if this was first. He said one thing was about the separation between his personal and professional life. I was like, "What? I don't think I've been particularly prying into your personal life lately." T said he knew that, but some of this was how it all started, with my googling and figuring out where he was (that tournament months ago). I was like, "Oh. I thought we were OK on that." I think he said we were? And he mentioned the thing again about how Googling is OK if just the first page of results, but not really beyond that. I said, "I haven't been googling you lately either." T: "OK, I didn't think you had been, but I appreciate you saying that." Me: "I think I found out whatever it was I needed to know before, that got resolved, so I haven't felt the need to do it. And it's not like I've ever, say, looked up your wife or anything like that." He said he appreciated that.

Oh right, also in there, he gave example of how he's on LinkedIn, which is professional (which, yeah, I found him on there before I started seeing him, I think). But if a client wanted to connect with him on LinkedIn, he'd decline. Me: "Uh, I don't want to connect with you on LinkedIn." T: "I was more just trying to make a point." Me: "OK...and if my name came up as a suggestion, it's because I looked you up ages ago." T: "You'd probably come up anyway because we e-mail." Me: "True."

I think around then I brought up the thing with the stone. I said how I'd been especially bothered by his comparison to a fan digging through Bruce Willis' trash. He said he wasn't really comparing me to that. Me: "But you said it fell on the same spectrum." T: "Yes, but at a different point on the spectrum." Me: "But I feel like it should be on a different spectrum all together. A completely different thing."

He mentioned again about whether it represented him. T: "If you holding it was like you were holding me, then it would make me uncomfortable." Me: "As I said before, that's not how I saw it." T: "OK, I know." I said it was more like something I'd put in the e-mail, that it's what he represented. T said, "I think you said three things, like acceptance..." Me: "And nonjudgmental and safe." He commented on how it seemed to bring up fears about that, so it's interesting it represents those things to me. I said it was more what I felt it represented when he first gave it to me (cue the tears), how it felt like he was seeing things differently, was willing to work differently with me, then I realized once I told him about getting comfort from holding it, that it was the opposite. That it seemed kind of...incongruent? Maybe that's the wrong word...

I said how I saw it as more of a way to keep a connection or something to bring me comfort if I was struggling. He said he didn't want me to be relying on something like that, how he wanted me to be talking to friends, to H, maybe posting on the forum. Or to be able to comfort myself. I said, "Yeah, I do those things, too, reaching out to friends, H. This is more if I'm awake in the middle of the night, feeling bad, I wouldn't want to wake up H, my friends would be asleep, so holding something like a stone could be comforting. But really just in that circumstance, it's not the first thing I'd normally go to." T seemed to sort of understand. I was trying to think of a way to compare to something to bridge the gap while forming stronger connections, but all I could think of was "stepping stone" and that seemed silly, so...but I kinda wish I'd said that anyway.

I said how I knew I had that other stone/crystal, the one I'd brought it, and he'd technically held that for a minute that day, but I hadn't held that at all. I figured it might make him uncomfortable since he'd held it. He said that was different, and if I had it with me and wanted to set it on the table next to me to sort of charge, that it was fine. I opted not to.

I asked what made that OK and not a stone from his office. He said how many of the items in his office, he has a personal connection to. They have stories behind them. Some were things he'd picked up on his travels, some things his clients have given him. T: "And there's been a lot of emotion shared in that room, so there's a lot of emotional energy here. And I've had some of the most profound conversations of my life in this room." Me: "...OK."

He said he couldn't remember which stone he'd given me. I said it was triangular, with a white stripe going down the middle, brown. He reached to the window ledge behind him, picked it up, and held it up to me. "This one?" Me: "Yes." I stupidly thought for a second that he might offer it back, especially after my explanation of how I use it. But he didn't. He just said, "Yeah, I don't remember where I got that one." (I was relieved it wasn't from a client...) He sat it back down and I felt sad.

I shifted to talking about some of my fears regarding him. Crying, I said I worried he regretted taking me on, that he'd probably chosen his practice specialties to not deal with clients like me, who had attachment issues. That I kept worrying how at some point, he'd just be like, "Nope, can't deal with this anymore." T: "It sounds like your real fears are about rejection and abandonment then." Me: "Yeah, I guess so." T: "I have no intentions of rejecting or abandoning you." Me (through more tears): "Thank you. And I appreciate you not actually promising that because I know it's not a promise someone can truly make." (I was also thinking how ex-MC had made that promise...)

I said another fear was that he mostly deals with shorter-term clients, and it would be coming up on a year for me in September, so I was worried he'd think I should be done by then. He said I was mind-reading there (he said that a couple other times in session, too) and asked why I had that impression? I said I guessed because he'd said 6 years was a long time to see ex-T and some other things he's said. T: "I have a few clients I've been seeing as long as 12 years." Me: "Really? Oh." He said some people have issues that can't be dealt with quickly, that might persist through their lives. Me: "You mean like anxiety and depression and OCD?" (my issues). T: "Yes, like that for example."

I said part of my issue with ex-T close to the end is that she seemed frustrated/disappointed that I wasn't all better. T said he understood how that could be difficult, if she didn't think I'd improved. I said: "But I was doing better! It bothered me that she didn't seem able to see it." T: "Oh, OK. If you see someone regularly for a long time, could be harder to tell." Me: "True...like seeing a kid everyday vs. only once a year, if it's only once a year you might be like 'Wow he's grown so much!' but the parents can't see it. Maybe that was a bad example." T: "I think that's a perfect example."

Then I said maybe that was one of my fears with him, too (crying again), that he wouldn't think I was getting better fast enough. That he'd think, "Gees, she's coming twice a week and still not better?" That he might think I'm not trying hard enough. Me: "But I am trying, I am doing the work." T: "I know you are." Me: "Thanks. And maybe this isn't just about you, maybe it's fears that other people think that too, like H."

I said on the other side of things...I also worried that he didn't think I had *enough* issue to be seeing him as often as I was. That maybe he's thinking, "What is she doing still coming here twice a week? She doesn't have that many problems!" He said I seemed to keep doing that, comparing my issues to those of others, when it's a very individual thing. How (as he's said before) we all react to things differently for many reasons. That he has some clients who have been through hell and seem fairly unfazed, and others, something that some people deal with all the time, like their parents getting divorced, could totally destroy them.

I said something about how I feared he thought I was exaggerating my issues or something, or that maybe he'd think I was just malingering. T: "I don't think you're a good enough actress to be faking all this." I kinda laughed and was like, "I don't know if that's a positive statement or not!" He smiled. Me: "Like, wow, you have so many issues, no way you could be making it up!" He laughed at that--one of the few moments of levity in the whole session. There was another moment, too, when he noticed a hawk right outside the window and was like, "Wow, look, it's one of the hawks!" he seemed like a kid with his excitement, and it was endearing.

We were over time by that point, and he didn't seem to be making any movement to end it, so I grabbed my phone. Confirmed Thursday, he said he saved 12:30 Monday for me--did I want it? Took that, went over and threw my giant pile of tissues in trash can. Paid, shook hands (as I was telling him something positive about D and her teacher). T: "Today's Monday, right?" Me: "Yes." T: "OK, see you....later this week." Me: "See you then.

E-mailed him later that night, he sent a long response this morning, may be seeing him tomorrow instead of Thursday.

I think it's okay to comment here-- it's the other T thread (gotta tell you something) that can upset people. If I'm wrong, please ignore and I am sorry for what I'm about to say.

I wanted to just make two comments about your content-- the first is that I think the fact that you can discuss these topics that are highly emotional and deep means that you have made incredible progress. That you might still be struggling with the "same" issues in terms of making the changes you want doesn't discount that. Even being able to write about a session like this so that others can read and understand it, that is also a sign of progress that goes beyond your substantial writing chops. Clearly you are thinking about very complex and tough topics like rejection in your sessions.

The other thing I wanted to say is about the mind reading bit. We all do it, and I think it's possible you may have done the same with your ex-T. Mind reading is such a trap because it's so easy to be wrong about someone else's feelings or perspectives, but if you act on your perceptions it can be a real relationship killer, in and out of therapy. I'm surprised your T didn't make this point himself, as in whatever you think your ex t thought, you must be "correct" about that, but what you think about him is mind reading.

I worked very hard on this with my H and with my son when he was an early adolescent. With my H, I would stop myself when I thought he had a negative reaction to something and check it out with him. With my kid, I think it's a natural product of adolescence for them to mind read because it's part of the thing they have with thinking they are always right, but I really wanted him to check out what he thought I was thinking or feeling. We do much better with this now, but he's also 17. So he's in a different place now.

Again, I'm sorry if you didn't want a response or if mine was unhelpful. Just this session resonated with me although my attachment issues inside therapy are different than my other relationships. I think because you are discussing such deep stuff, you are creating skills in intimacy that will translate to your other relationships and improve them.

Your write up is so vivid I felt like I was there. You really could write a great and much-needed book titled something like : The Client's Perspective. I over-related to it bc it seemed like you went to my therapy too lol.

Okay, so in general is there something about some T's that make them need to be wanted like this, but disown the need? I don't think your T was warranted to bring that back up. At least, it was about him and not you. Moreover, if you HAD correlated holding the stone with holding onto him, what the heck happened to unconditional positive regard. Should he really dump on you that makes him uncomfortable, or should he consider it countertransference and see his own T?

My T sometimes will conclude things are "a sign of how important I am to you right now" etc. I am puzzled by that not bc I think he is wrong, but by how odd it is to say that to someone. I am really important to you rather than you are really important to me. . . Why is it that when T's do it it is mentalizing and a good thing but when the patient does it it is mind reading?

LT, is your T , on some level, entertaining this idea of you holding him by holding a stone a bit too long, and giving in the sunlight of his attention in a way that makes it grow?

I know, for me, I have a few very passionate and intense relationships, a whole marriage and a relationship now, and that is NOT what I feel for or about my T. On the other hand, having told T secrets, I am paranoid he sees me as a DX and kind of a ruined version of a human less than himself( less than his own family members) . There is some deep need for recognition of humanity I have from him, that is not in play in any other relationship past or present - like an unfillableness. I really don't get what is wrong with two professionals being lined on Linked In - T and Client or not. Linked in is so boring and formal- it seem like a nod to normalcy and equality- not some grievous violation of boundaries and rules.

It bugs me that your T seems to have some commitment-anxiety befitting a romantic situation with you, when the issue is more about attachment and something intrapsychic, inside yourself, not between you and him .

Am I off there? Sorry if so. I am pretty fired up about T's in general, and the way we do let them be so pivotal in a given week and hang on their responses and need them. Although I am fired up, my T is still pivotal lol and I really care about therapy.

Not all therapists do the "unconditional positive regard". That is a Rogerian form of therapy, not something all therapist espouse to.

If you're referring to my T, that topic came up recently for some reason, and he specifically said he doesn't believe in unconditional positive regard.

It's fine to comment! I think if people don't want comments here, they tend to start their post with "please no comments on this" or something like that.

Thanks, that's good to hear. I think you're right that I couldn't have shared things like this, say, a few years ago. I didn't include this in the writeup, but I mentioned to T how some people said I'd been brave about what I'd shared recently. I said I kind of felt like at this point, I had to go for broke, and if it's something T can't handle, then I need to move on. He said he guessed there was no point in half-assing it, and I said at this point, I agreed.

That's an interesting point that I could have been doing this with my ex-T. She did say at one point that it was hard for her because I still seemed to have so much depression and anxiety, so I don't think it was just my mindreading, in this case. But I also think it may have been more about her than me, like she felt she wasn't helping me enough (current T agreed with that).

This is definitely an issue I have with H--if he seems irritable or angry, I tend to just assume it has to do with something I did (or didn't do). I've gotten better at checking in with him about it rather than just assuming, but it's definitely still an issue at times. That's great that you've been able to make so much progress with it, and so has your son.

Oh, thats not good. Imo. That kinda explains why you keep bumping up against his "countertransference". I mean, my feeling was, i didnt like my feelings to begin with - i dont need somebody ELSE telling me im effed up and to stop it. I want to confront it with him.

But maybe thats part of his aspie/sports/AA paradigm - you dont want to indulge and thereby enforce the unwanted behavior, which UPR would imply, so he confronts and redirects it ASAP?

Because IF you wanted to confront it with him, then, when he turned around to put the stone back on the sill and you felt bad, you needed AT THAT MOMENT to tell him what you were feeling - that you had hoped FOR A MOMENT he would return it to you.

Its a different kind of therapy than youve been reporting, really being in the moment, but i think UPR is essential then. Because how could respond any way but kindly to you? Not necessarily returning the stone, but dealing with your feelings right then. But YOU have to make those moments happen. You have to realize that nothing else on todays agenda is more important than your feeling at that moment.

Thats how i did t, anyway.

Esme - MENTALIZING! I cant decide if i love it or hate it! Is it just thinking, or did he actually capture a process?

Yes well he says mentalizing is a way we imagine our ways empathetically into the mental states of others. If we imagine LT's T as a good guy who cares about her, is a sports guy, and feels squirmy uncomfortable getting too personal - we took a stab at mentazlizing

I agree with Una, LT. UPR isn't just "Awww, i accept everything you say and all your feelings, lovey smooch smooch!!" (sorry, lol) I have never asked my T if she believes in this, but she does accept all of my feelings as true, for me. She challenges me all the time, but it is always with curiosity.

For example, I am going to put myself in your shoes with the stone thing. I'll pretend that I was brave enough to tell her that holding the stone when I was upset. I think she would be happy that something helped me feel better. She probably would ask about what I was feeling/thinking in the moment that it helped me, and we would explore that.

TO me, that is UPR.

Well, I have wanted to write a book at some point in my life!

As mentioned above, he doesn't buy into the unconditional positive regard thing. I feel like it's countertransference going on. He is going to get consultation on it (doesn't have his own T or a supervisor). He said the following as part of his response to my e-mail: "At this point the whole stone-as-a-connection concept has become muddled to me and I think I will need to talk to a colleague or two as a way of helping me make sense of my thinking and your needs/request." (I did write back and make sure he wasn't going to talk to ex-MC, since I know they've consulted before! He assured me that he wouldn't.)

That's a really good question...and he kept using mindreading, which seemed like it was putting the blame back on me. Rather than his thinking about what he may have said that made me think certain things. (Yes, I do tend to mindread, but I also had certain impressions from things he's said, so I didn't pull some of the stuff out of nowhere!)

I don't know--I've told him repeatedly that I didn't see holding the stone as holding *him*, yet he keeps mentioning it, so I'm not sure what's up with that. Does he not believe me? Is it something else?


I understand these sentiments. I also worry how T sees me. And I was extremely upset one session when ex-T seemed to just be painting me as a product of my OCD, like suggesting any thoughts I had about ex-MC were obsessions from my disorder, which to me made me feel like she was saying they weren't real feelings, but a symptom. And yeah, with LinkedIn--not sure why he picked that as an example, since it's so professionally focused (maybe because he's on there and not Facebook?) I have tons of connections on there, and it's not like I really look at the pages or connections of most people, unless they're in my field (which isn't psychotherapy).


Yes, I have to wonder if this stems from my whole "I love you" thing to ex-MC back in December? And he equates "transference/attachment" with romantic love? Even though I've told him that really, the most difficult parts of my transference for ex-MC involved the paternal stuff. How that was most of it really. I did say maybe a month ago in talking about this "I don't have romantic love for you," and he thanked me for confirming that. So maybe that's his fear? Or...it could be since he's only 7 years older than me (and seems to have some issues with getting older, from things he's said), he feels weird being seen as a paternal figure? I don't know.

But I agree with what you said that it's more about stuff inside myself. If it wasn't, why would I have similar reactions to both ex-MC and T, who are very different people? And have had that in the past with a teacher? It's clearly part of a pattern, more what those people represent to me vs. them as individuals. Which I've been trying to emphasize to him, including recently.

I don't think your'e totally off base, no. It is very difficult to deal with how important they can be in our lives...I have to wonder if I'm one of T's first clients (in 15 years!) to be particularly open about that aspect of therapy.

Yes, that's the reaction I wanted from him. I told him that, back when we first discussed it, that I had hoped he'd just respond with, "I'm glad it gave you comfort." Not the whole creepy thing... I mean, he did try to figure out if it was the therapy space (which also included him) vs. him (as a therapist, not a person), and I had trouble differentiating which it was. I think if I'd just said, "Yep, 100% the therapy space!" none of this would have turned into anything. But of course I had to be honest...I still recall his reaction, when he was describing what would bother him, and I started crying, and he was like, "Why are you reacting that way?" Like he didn't get why it could bother me, his saying that (now he seems to understand more).

As for the UPR, I know this isn't the same thing, but months ago, the topic of unconditional love came up. And he said he didn't believe in that. I was like, "But you're a parent, how could you not?" And he said there were things his kid could do (like awful, evil things) that would make him disown him. That kind of threw me a bit (being a parent myself). More recently, he said the thing about not buying into UPR. Which did bother me a bit. I know he prides himself on being honest, but sometimes he just takes the honesty thing too far...

Yeah, I'm trying to confront him about it. He has this whole thing about being honest and up front with people--both clients and people in his real life. It's just, honesty is great and all, but there is such a thing as being *too* honest. So he's agreed to be more "gentle" with it for me, at least for the time being.

Wait, what do you mean by the aspie and AA parts of that? He has a son on the spectrum, but pretty sure he isn't. And AA--Alcoholics Anonymous or something else?

But for the second part, see: the honesty thing.

The thing with that was...would he have only been giving it back because I asked? Would he have felt like he had to? I wanted him to offer it, to feel comfortable enough with it, from what I said, to say, "OK, you know what? Here's the stone back."

I did sort of confront him about it in my e-mail, saying, "Sorry, just one last thing. I think maybe your holding up the stone to me today to verify which one it was--that may have been kind of triggering. This stupidly hopeful part of me thought for a split second maybe you'd offer it back to me, especially because you said you didn't recall how you'd acquired it (so you had no particular emotional connection to it). So it sort of felt like you were dangling this potentially comforting thing in front of me, then taking it back again. I'm sure that wasn't your intention, but it felt that way a bit."

His response to that part was: "Regarding your other email about the stone, I'm sorry for the confusion and if my picking it up was hurtful to you. Not my intention, but I can see how you may have expected me to give it back to you at that moment as I reflect on the conversation with hindsight - which is, of course, 20/20. At this point the whole stone-as-a-connection concept has become muddled to me and I think I will need to talk to a colleague or two as a way of helping me make sense of my thinking and your needs/request."

So it seems he realized what he did and how I could have expected a certain reaction then.

I'm trying to get better at confronting the feelings in the moment...but if he had said "No," when I asked for it back...that would have been extremely painful. I was too afraid of that. Or I'd worry he'd give it back for the wrong reasons and still be really uncomfortable with it, so then it wouldn't really give me comfort.

Today was good. He had a book about social skills he let me look through and see what things I wanted to work on. We took a phobia break, talked about my driving issues since I'm driving out of state tomorrow.

My silly dog spilled his cup of water on the rug, lol. T wasn't mad at all, just casually picked it up and made jokes about Patch being drunk. Glad things are well with us again, I can go there without feeling sick to my stomach.