[ElectricManatee]

I was just thinking about how he said that he's only ever referred one person to another therapist. I think that in itself shows that he isn't able to determine when he doesn't have the appropriate skillset to help somebody. There is no way he was adequately qualified to treat every person who has come to him in all the years he has been practicing.

[LonesomeTonight]

Sorry for the lack of replies! I had a pretty intense session with him today that addressed some of what was talked about here. I shared a lot of what I was feeling and think there may have been a breakthrough of sorts He seemed to think so, too, though we didn't use those words. From him: "It's the first time you've actually come out and said that you don't want to be reacting this way, that you want help to change." Will reply more later.

[smileygal]

Hhmm, maybe a response from me here is required but going to share my thoughts again anyway since it is a thread and you are open to discussion.

I don't know the rest of the story behind this comment so I may very well be off base but it actually irked me a little. Like yes of course it is positive to hear a client say they want to change something explicitly but you are in therapy because you want to change things.

He seems to place a lot of the onus on you and your response. I mean yes you are the one in therapy sure so he should be examining that and not himself in your therapy but a personal peeve of mine which doesn't happen in my own therapy is the lack of discussion around how the dynamic works and how two people are interacting within that dynamic all the time.

The two things that jumped out from me when you mention him giving you feedback or correcting you are they are off things that he initially created and then changed. Like the emails. I may be misremembering a bit but he put them out there as a thing you could do and then they started to get a bit much. To me by doing that he is sending you the message implicitly that you are being too much (I'm not saying you are) but verbally then saying you aren't. That would be confusing to me.

I don't know I'm waffling now but if just seems some of the feedback he gives would sting me too but I know it's because of my own trauma and rejection and abandonment issues. Wounds like that can be deep and it is understandable that people respond in certain ways when they are wounded like that. I don't know if him repeating and old wound and then just expecting you to react different because you want to or 'know' you should the way.

[LonesomeTonight]

Originally Posted by smileygal

Hhmm, maybe a response from me here is required but going to share my thoughts again anyway since it is a thread and you are open to discussion.

I don't know the rest of the story behind this comment so I may very well be off base but it actually irked me a little. Like yes of course it is positive to hear a client say they want to change something explicitly but you are in therapy because you want to change things.

Thanks for your comments. Honestly, it kind of bothered me, too. Like, of course I'm here to change things! His comment came about because I said I felt like on Friday and Sunday he was being critical of how my mind works. And today I said, "But I don't want to be this way. I don't want to be reacting so strongly when people are critical. Can you help me figure out how to change that?" (This was through tears.)

He seems to place a lot of the onus on you and your response. I mean yes you are the one in therapy sure so he should be examining that and not himself in your therapy but a personal peeve of mine which doesn't happen in my own therapy is the lack of discussion around how the dynamic works and how two people are interacting within that dynamic all the time.

The two things that jumped out from me when you mention him giving you feedback or correcting you are they are off things that he initially created and then changed. Like the emails. I may be misremembering a bit but he put them out there as a thing you could do and then they started to get a bit much. To me by doing that he is sending you the message implicitly that you are being too much (I'm not saying you are) but verbally then saying you aren't. That would be confusing to me.

Yes, and this is something that has also been an issue for me in the past with T's (and other people) in my life--and he knows this, as we talked about it a lot early on regarding my former marriage counselor (ex-MC) and a bit with ex-T.

He was saying today again that he let me know as soon as it was bothering him (well, he waited a session because I was really struggling with an outside issue, so he didn't think it was an appropriate time). So it wasn't a big deal for him. That he even tries to let me know earlier on than he would tell other clients because he knows it's a concern for me that things have been bothering someone for a while and they haven't said something.

I did say today with the check-in texts that it seemed like he just expected me to psychically know when they became too much for him. How it was particularly difficult for me because it was something I had even checked in about. That's been an issue in my outside life, too, if I check in with, say, a friend or my H on whether something is OK, they say it's fine, and then at some random time they suddenly decide it's not fine, and I had no way of knowing that. It's harder for me because I did try to make sure it was OK.

I don't know I'm waffling now but if just seems some of the feedback he gives would sting me too but I know it's because of my own trauma and rejection and abandonment issues. Wounds like that can be deep and it is understandable that people respond in certain ways when they are wounded like that. I don't know if him repeating and old wound and then just expecting you to react different because you want to or 'know' you should the way.

It helps to know some of it would sting me, too. And I also have some trauma and abandonment issues. I think I got through to him more today in what it can feel like for me. I had made this comment on Friday while he was being critical that I felt like I just wanted to jump out the window. At the time, he didn't really say anything, and I quickly changed it to "I wish I could throw my brain out the window and get a new one."

Today, I mentioned that comment--prefacing it with my fear that it would sound manipulative (he's called something I said that in the past)--and said it was the sort of thing where he could choose to explore it, like, "So what is going on with you here? What is making you feel that way?" He nodded. I said how in that moment, it was that the shame felt so unbearable that I wanted to just disappear. I think maybe he got it a little more then?

[LonesomeTonight]

Originally Posted by Quietmind 2

Mhm, and I'd like to add that I feel there's ethical ways for a therapist to tell a client they need more than what the therapist can offer, even if it hurts the client to hear that.

That includes appropriate referrals if they can't or don't want to train to expand their scope of practice, in order to become what the client needs.

Not that I'm completely agreeing with Dr T, because I feel there's probably better ways for him to be less...shaming...?

My first therapist was harmful in just a handful of sessions in ways I still struggle with today, but the best thing he did for me was to refer me on, second thing being that he told me why although he kept it vague.

He said I needed a higher level of care due to my psychological and emotional issues, and made a referral.

My subsequent therapist was a clinical psychologist who also recognised the limit of her scope of practice.

I do agree that they can tell clients this, and it's probably best to do so early on. With Dr. T, I tried to make it very clear that I'd likely have some sort of transference for and/or attachment to him, and that if he couldn't deal with that, I'd prefer him to let me know early on. At one point, maybe 6 months or a year in, when he seemed bothered by it, it especially upset me because I had warned him. He could have just sent me elsewhere in the beginning.

[LonesomeTonight]

Originally Posted by ruh roh

I have come out of retirement to comment on this because it's something I've experienced, and maybe it will help you to hear.

Hi Ruh Roh, nice to hear from you! How are you doing?

Like others have said, this guy is not the therapist for the kind of work you're looking for from him. Those kind exist, and they would love to use the therapeutic relationship as a laboratory for seeing how you do life, but it's not just having someone hold all your feelings for you and be gushy. It's painful, hard work, fraught with shame attacks and fear. It's not all about what other people have done wrong. The past is a launching pad for how you experience life now. Some kinds of therapy help you get interested in finding ways as an adult to be more functional and happy with yourself. In relational therapy, you can show up and accuse the therapist of talking too harshly (maybe they did) or being dismissive (probably were)--they don't get defensive, though, they get curious and that makes you curious, and pretty soon you metabolize all those unbearable feelings and come up with a different approach for yourself--and you do that over and over and over and over again. The trust has to be there that they aren't going to walk away when you have a shame attack and freak out, that they're going to stick it out until you can put out the fires in your brain. It's looking deeply at how you experience things and being curious about that. Sure, you can look at the "why" but that gets old, especially once you know the why.

It helps to hear this description of relational therapy. I know early on, Dr. T had said that maybe I did just want a warm, fuzzy T. And I suppose I thought that's what a relational or humanistic T was, someone who would just validate and accept me, without really challenging me. And I was afraid that would ultimately be a negative for me, because how would that push me? And why would I ever want to leave that environment? So I thought the challenge from Dr. T was good in a way for me. But helps to know a relational T will challenge as well.

What I see in you is a need to manage other people's feelings, to make sure they don't feel too much or feel in a way that makes you uncomfortable--all coming from a need you may have to also not feel too much in yourself. That's something to be curious about and to wonder if it's working for you the way it did with a child brain. Would your life feel more doable if you let other people have their feelings and you learned to be okay with yours? That's the kind of thing digging deeper can start with, but your therapist doesn't work that way. His way can work for some. It's very practical.

I hadn't really considered that maybe it's ultimately about trying to not feel too much in myself. As a kid, I was taught that negative emotions (anger, sadness) were bad. I've certainly been able to connect with sadness, but I still struggle with anger. So I guess it would make total sense that if I didn't want to feel anger in myself, I wouldn't want others to be angry at me. Maybe if I could become more OK with my own anger (at others, rather than at myself), then I could handle it better coming from others toward me? Or even not as big as anger, but "irritation," which is what Dr. T keeps referencing.

I can clearly feel your pain when your therapist doesn't say or do the exact thing you need in order to feel okay. In all honesty though, that's a hamster wheel approach to life. Let's say he messed up and did virtual on a day that you thought was in person? That would feel awful--all kinds of feelings would flood you. Rejection, abandonment, fears of all kinds...lots of great material to work with if you had the right therapist. But I have a feeling with this therapist it would be weeks of you going over exactly what he did wrong and how it hurt you and was like your parents treatment of you (or fill in the blank). Instead, a relational therapist might lead you to finding ways to survive those feelings and carry on, to not be led by fears and fear of feeling things.

So, that's kind of something that came up today. Where he said in the past I might have just focused on what he did that upset me. But today I was talking about how I didn't want to have that reaction anymore and wanted his help to change. And (this repeats something in another post), he said it was the first time I'd really said that out loud, that I wanted to change my reaction. I think he partly meant that I was recognizing that my reaction was at least a big part of the issue, rather than what Dr. T (or someone else in my life) did.

All that aside, you might do really well with EMDR. I've had great success with it, even though I was pretty sure it was going to be useless. My therapist (a different one than I had when I used to post here) is full on relational and I can't stand it. She says I limit what we can get to and that's right. I have specific things I'm there for, and that's all I want to work on. It's been really successful for me.
With EMDR, you could work on any number of triggering events--things with your daughter, your husband, past therapists, your mother (who is sounds like also tries to manage other people's feelings).

I'm glad EMDR has helped you. You're not the only one here mentioning, as you can see, so maybe it's something to look into again (I didn't want to pursue it while most therapists were virtual). And it is a case where Dr. T has said he'd be OK with my seeing a therapist for EMDR while I saw him (obviously I'd be seeing him less), or to take a break from him to do that (maybe not right now, but sometime by year's end).

And you're absolutely correct with my mom. She still does that, try to manage people's feelings.

Anyway, just wanted to weigh in because I recognize your stuckness and want you to be able to live a great life, not being batted around by what other people say or do. It's very freeing.

Thanks, I appreciate that. And "stuckness" is a good word!

btw, Have you watched Couples Therapy on Showtime? The therapist is a rare type--smart, bold and honest.

I did actually watch the first season and the pandemic episode and found it to be really interesting. Maybe it's time to pay for another month of Showtime and catch up (there were multiple seasons, right?)

[smileygal]

Sorry feel like I'm taking over a bit here now but some more thoughts

Few thoughts on this

I did say today with the check-in texts that it seemed like he just expected me to psychically know when they became too much for him. How it was particularly difficult for me because it was something I had even checked in about. That's been an issue in my outside life, too, if I check in with, say, a friend or my H on whether something is OK, they say it's fine, and then at some random time they suddenly decide it's not fine, and I had no way of knowing that. It's harder for me because I did try to make sure it was OK.

I have this issue too. When you go out of your way not to do something i.e actively try not to annoy someone or overstep a boundary and then 'bam't they say that you have or did it can be incredibly painful. Far more so than someone who wasn't thinking too much about it in the first place I imagine.

For me I think it's more than just an inability to take criticism or be told something you did is or was annoying. When I was a child these were literally what saved me and kept me safe. My ability to read situations, people, keep under the radar, not annoy people. It became who I was I guess someone I at some point ended up being tied to my self worth as a person. There is also a lot of fear attached to it as that is why it was created in the first place. For someone to come along then and give 'feedback' to you about 'you' like that as if they are correcting your spelling mistakes and not understand then why you are reacting how you are reacting is just plain missing the mark here. Some of the things he says do sound very shaming even if he is not directly meaning to do that. Reading your posts it;s like he is often implying there is something 'wrong' with you.

[stopdog]

Why would you hire a therapist if something wasn't wrong with you?

[atisketatasket]

Originally Posted by stopdog

Why would you hire a therapist if something wasn't wrong with you?

The scintillating conversation?

[smileygal]

Originally Posted by stopdog

Why would you hire a therapist if something wasn't wrong with you?

I'm afraid we don't view things that same way. and that's okay. I imagine many others here would agree with you. I don't particularly want to get into it and highjack the thread more off my ramble about why I think that way. We are all imperfect human beings.

[unaluna]

Originally Posted by smileygal

Sorry feel like I'm taking over a bit here now but some more thoughts
Few thoughts on this
I have this issue too. When you go out of your way not to do something i.e actively try not to annoy someone or overstep a boundary and then 'bam't they say that you have or did it can be incredibly painful. Far more so than someone who wasn't thinking too much about it in the first place I imagine.

For me I think it's more than just an inability to take criticism or be told something you did is or was annoying. When I was a child these were literally what saved me and kept me safe. My ability to read situations, people, keep under the radar, not annoy people. It became who I was I guess someone I at some point ended up being tied to my self worth as a person.

Yeah ive been told im being manipulative when i try to avoid these accusations by preloading the situation so to speak. You cant have it where you are perfect and always anticipating and trying to cancel out the other person's response. How is that a fair adult relationship? Its not, its childish. I never do anything wrong.

Like smileygal said, it kept us alive at one point. I learned how to not tick my mother off. I learned to stop asking for whatever it was - memorably a kiss on the cheek when she left for work. Somebody getting really ticked at me still works to motivate me. Its about the only thing that does.

[unaluna]

Originally Posted by stopdog

Why would you hire a therapist if something wasn't wrong with you?

Ha ha. There are two ways of interpreting that. SD, you sly dog, you.

[LonesomeTonight]

Originally Posted by unaluna

Yeah ive been told im being manipulative when i try to avoid these accusations by preloading the situation so to speak. You cant have it where you are perfect and always anticipating and trying to cancel out the other person's response. How is that a fair adult relationship? Its not, its childish. I never do anything wrong.

I'm not sure it's necessarily childish, but it's sort of a losing battle. Dr. T said recently how you can try to follow all of someone's "rules" (a term I've used), but you're still going to bump up against each other at some point because you're human. There's no realistic way to avoid conflict with everyone--unless maybe all your relationships are with conflict-avoidant people, and there there will still end up being conflicts at times--then they're more likely to be big blowups, because the person kept an issue(s) inside until it became a huge deal.

Like smileygal said, it kept us alive at one point. I learned how to not tick my mother off. I learned to stop asking for whatever it was - memorably a kiss on the cheek when she left for work. Somebody getting really ticked at me still works to motivate me. Its about the only thing that does.

I do think they're survival tactics in some way. For me, mainly to avoid rejection and abandonment, I'd say. To get approval. Etc.

[smileygal]

Originally Posted by unaluna

Ha ha. There are two ways of interpreting that. SD, you sly dog, you.

Would love to know the other way? Do share...

Yeah ive been told im being manipulative when i try to avoid these accusations by preloading the situation so to speak. You cant have it where you are perfect and always anticipating and trying to cancel out the other person's response. How is that a fair adult relationship? Its not, its childish. I never do anything wrong.

Ya I was quite defensive when I first heard it was a form of manipulation as manipulative as such a negative connotation to it but it's true. We are trying to get someone to act or feel a certain way' even if we think it's for the right reasons. With awareness and and the development of a greater sense of self it has improved.

I'd think this type of mind reading and preempting usually always comes from child hood fears and maladaptive patterns we have developed which I guess could be called childish.

[unaluna]

Originally Posted by smileygal

Would love to know the other way? Do share...
Ya I was quite defensive when I first heard it was a form of manipulation as manipulative as such a negative connotation to it but it's true. We are trying to get someone to act or feel a certain way' even if we think it's for the right reasons. With awareness and and the development of a greater sense of self it has improved.

I'd think this type of mind reading and preempting usually always comes from child hood fears and maladaptive patterns we have developed which I guess could be called childish.

Yes, thats how i mean childish. Like wanting to pay half price and forcing the other person to pay more.

"Why would you hire a t if something wasnt wrong with you?"
1. Straight - like, why wouldnt you buy a sandwich if you were hungry?
2. Sly - if you hire a t, there is something wrong with your decision making period.

[ruh roh]

Hi LT,

I'm glad you had a shift in your conversations with your therapist--pulling for you that it leads you to a more peaceful place within yourself because the world is always going to world.

I've been doing great. The therapist I had when I used to post here was a disaster. I took a break, but was such a mess from the last one that I re-entered the hellscape and found someone who is not too damaging, however, the burn from past toxic therapy has had long term effects. The good news is that the new one mostly keeps her stuff out of my therapy and is more skilled with trauma work, although she irritates the crap out of me with relational attempts. I limit what we work on and it's been just what I needed. I've thought of stopdog often because she is right about her assessment of lazy low-hanging fruit pickers who hang a shingle and can't explain what it is they do. My main goal has been to break free of therapy, and I've finally gotten to where that's happening.

[LonesomeTonight]

Originally Posted by JaneTennison1

I haven't posted in a while but I wanted to comment on this. You sound like me LT. passionately defensive of someone and I'm sure you will keep going but I'm not sure this is serving you overall.

I know that when I obsess over the T relationship this much it is as a protection thing. I think about every aspect and what they said or did. It's like thinking about the emotions without feeling them. You are not building any distress tolerance but moreover just focusing on what everyone says or does. My therapy has moved from constant thinking about it to feeling, to discussing and processing the big stuff. The fact this T has increased response to text, emails and even increased your appointments at sometimes shows that he is not behaving ethically. You may defend him and say he has helped you but really this same wounded pattern is still happening and showing up. This would be a red flag that he is not the T for helping heal this.

I'm sure he means well and maybe he is trying his best but I dont think this pattern will end until you heal that wound and focusing so much on who said what is not healing the wound.

Thanks for your comments. I do think that I'm feeling the emotions along with thinking about them. I don't want to get into a debate about this here, but I also don't feel he's behaving unethically in replying to emails and giving additional appointments at times. I assume you mean he's creating dependence. But I've also been under a high level of stress recently from various outside things go on, so I don't find it to be unethical for him to give me increased support if I need it.

[LonesomeTonight]

Originally Posted by zoiecat

I agree with many of the comments above. When coming to this thread the past few days, I have sometimes missed switching to the last page and didn't even notice after reading multiple posts because the issues discussed 2 years ago are the same as what we are discussing now. I know you have improved a bit with not needing as many extra sessions and sometimes being able to hold off on sending an email, but other than that it seems that nothing has changed. You are still upset about his responses or non-responses to emails and struggling to get him to respond to your wishes in the way you want him too. As stated above, he is mainly a sports therapist. Correct me if I am wrong, but that is not what you need. It is like going to a heart surgeon with a brain tumor. Yes, the surgeon is a doctor and a skilled one at that, but he can't help you with a brain tumor.

As for EMDR, I also think this can be a great help for you. I have learned through EMDR, that all of my current issues are related to the past. Getting upset about something at work, is basically a rehash of something from childhood. My desire to prefer to be alone and only rely on myself stems from experiences in childhood. By desensitizing my trauma from the past, it helps me deal with the here and now. Depending on the severity of the trauma, or number of traumas, it can also work rather quickly and does not require years of therapy.

I also think it would be helpful to define what your goals in therapy are. Are there specific things you want to work past, work on enjoying life and not feeling the pain of negative feelings from everyday issues, or do you secretly want the relationship from being in therapy forever. Rather than looking for a therapist that will accept emails and extra sessions, maybe it would be a lot more productive to find a therapist that specializes in what you really want to accomplish.

Wanted to clarify about the sports therapist thing. That's one part of his client base, but he's also a Licensed Psychologist with a PhD in Clinical Psychology who has been working with just general psychology clients for like 18 years, only adding in the sports psychology maybe 7 years ago? It's more that it's one of his areas of specialization, though he does have an additional certification in that.

I'm seeing a trend in people suggesting EMDR, so I am going to look into this further. Dr. T said at one point that he'd be open to my, say, seeing a T strictly for EMDR either while I was seeing him (obviously seeing him less often) or to take time away to focus on EMDR, then return to him if I wanted. So I wouldn't have to make an either/or decision.


And I agree that evaluating my therapy goals is important. And figuring out if I'm able to achieve them with this T. I started some of that dialogue with him yesterday.

[LonesomeTonight]

Originally Posted by atisketatasket

On root causes, I think they can be generally useful. I know they’re important to you, LT, but what has often struck me is how detailed they are in your case. It’s often something like “X said this and it reminded me of when Y happened when I was 3 and so I reacted Z way.” And then the focus remains that highly specific root cause, not the present moment. Whereas for me a root cause might boil down to “my mother was not as emotionally available as I would have liked her to be” rather than specific instances, and then there’s not much to be done with that except try to keep it from my affecting my present.

Probably to a certain point that level of detail suits you and helps you, maybe is characteristic of your OCD. But I think it adds to the stuckness. And in that sense Dr. T may be better fit for you than a talk therapist, because he’s not interested in root causes and isn’t trained to be. Even a good talk therapist, though, will start pushing at stuckness.

I do think, having read this board for seven years now, that trying to get a therapist to be the therapist we want is usually a path to unnecessary pain.

Thanks for the comments. I do suspect that detail is part of my OCD. I hadn't considered how that might contribute to the stuckness. Dr. T does mention how hung up I tend to be on dates as well, remembering exactly when something happened, which I'm pretty certain is the OCD. How I tend to remember negative dates rather than positive ones, too.

I intend to talk to him more tomorrow about ways to overcome some of the stuckness--mindfulness is one of his areas of training, and I imagine that could be helpful, in focusing on the here and now as opposed to the past. I admit I've been rather resistant at times to using some of those techniques, such as meditation or taking part in activities where I'm entirely focused on what's going on in front of me (I am trying to get back into painting and cooking, which can get me out of my head).

I think I have shifted Dr. T closer to the direction of the therapist I want, but I know he will never quite be there. And then there's the difference between the therapist I *want* and the therapist I *need*. Like, in some ways, do I want someone warm and fuzzy? Yes. But would that necessarily be good for me? I don't know--it would depend on whether they also challenged and pushed me.

[ElectricManatee]

Originally Posted by LonesomeTonight

I think I have shifted Dr. T closer to the direction of the therapist I want, but I know he will never quite be there. And then there's the difference between the therapist I *want* and the therapist I *need*. Like, in some ways, do I want someone warm and fuzzy? Yes. But would that necessarily be good for me? I don't know--it would depend on whether they also challenged and pushed me.

Maybe this is obvious, but those two things are not necessarily mutually exclusive. My T can be the warmest and fuzziest at times and at other times she pushes hard truths and usually she is somewhere in the middle, super supportive but also aware that we have work to do together. It's sort of like a good authoritative parent who is totally there and wants to understand but also has boundaries and expectations.

[LonesomeTonight]

Originally Posted by ElectricManatee

Maybe this is obvious, but those two things are not necessarily mutually exclusive. My T can be the warmest and fuzziest at times and at other times she pushes hard truths and usually she is somewhere in the middle, super supportive but also aware that we have work to do together. It's sort of like a good authoritative parent who is totally there and wants to understand but also has boundaries and expectations.

Hm, good point. And I like the comparison to the authoritative parent (obviously, I did not have one of those). I suppose I've only experienced the two extremes in T's--with ex-MC as the "warm and fuzzy" but not really pushing (either me or me/H), and both ex-T and Dr. T as non-warm and fuzzy, but pushing more. Well, I don't know, ex-T didn't push *that* much.

[velcro003]

Originally Posted by ElectricManatee

Maybe this is obvious, but those two things are not necessarily mutually exclusive. My T can be the warmest and fuzziest at times and at other times she pushes hard truths and usually she is somewhere in the middle, super supportive but also aware that we have work to do together. It's sort of like a good authoritative parent who is totally there and wants to understand but also has boundaries and expectations.

I agree with this as well. The T I had at the crisis center was really kind and I could tell she cared-but she really pushed me the whole time. Challenging my negative beliefs. Seeing how my actual behavior is different than my feelings. Also, I heard a lot “Feelings aren’t facts.”

[unaluna]

Originally Posted by velcro003

I agree with this as well. The T I had at the crisis center was really kind and I could tell she cared-but she really pushed me the whole time. Challenging my negative beliefs. Seeing how my actual behavior is different than my feelings. Also, I heard a lot “Feelings aren’t facts.”

I hated that! The first half of my therapy, a t always said, "thats not a feeling, thats a thought! What are you FEELING???!" When i finally start to identify a feeling, theyre like, "but thats JUST a FEELING!" isnt that what i was saying before?! Do thoughts trump feelings or vicey versey?

Eta - Velcro - we shoulda told them, "feelings are ALTERNATIVE facts!"

[LonesomeTonight]

Monday's session:

I was so anxious for the first part of it--he said he hadn't seen me "this keyed up" in a long time. I'm pretty sure it was because I had things I wanted to say, but was afraid to say them.

After a bit of small talk about the concert I'd attended the night before, I started with how it felt like he had been saying to me in the previous couple sessions that I was overreacting, that I knew he didn’t use those words, but. Dr. T: “Well, you *were* overreacting. Wouldn’t you agree?” Me: “uh….”

I said I felt like he was being critical of how my brain works both Friday and Sunday. Me: “But that’s why I’m here! That’s why I’m in therapy! I don’t want to be like this.” (I was sobbing.) And that I wanted to know if he had ways to help me with that. He looked thoughtful for a minute and said he thinks it was the first time I’ve actually said that I didn’t want to be that way. That usually it’s my talking about what he did that upset or bothered me, but it seemed different now, with me examining my part in it and why I reacted the way I did. So that felt like a breakthrough of sorts, maybe for both of us?

I then said that wanted to tell him something, but I was afraid he’d say it was manipulative. That I’m often afraid of things like that, he’ll say something is manipulative or controlling, because he's said that in the past. I said I wondered if maybe the reason things had gone well between us for a while is that I was following his rules/boundaries and not pushing. He looked a bit puzzled and asked if I meant walking on eggshells, I said kinda. He asked if I'd meant over the past 3-6 months, and I said I'd have to think about it.

I said how I wanted to talk about my comment Friday of “I just want to jump out the window,” when he said nothing (and then I changed to “I want to throw my brain out the window”). I said yesterday that I was afraid he’d think it manipulative. Crying, I said: “But it’s really how I was feeling in that moment, feeling that level of shame that I just wanted to disappear.” He said he didn’t see that as manipulative at all, that I was expressing how I felt. And “Of course I don’t want you to jump out the window.” Me: “Thanks.”

I mentioned how I’d felt the relationship had seemed more secure recently (which I’d said to him before). And that I’d felt more connected to him, “not in a weird or inappropriate way, just that we were understanding each other and in a good place” (or something like that). So maybe then the stuff about the texts felt more jarring.

He said that with the stuff with D’s educational assessments (in April, where she was found to likely have an intellectual disability in addition to known autism), he was trying to be very supportive of me and wondered if I'd felt “particularly emotionally cared for” by him through that. So his then saying he was irritated felt especially harsh. I said it did feel that way, that he was being really supportive. Me: “And sort of…warmer? I’m not sure the right word. You already used caring. Maybe…” (I wanted to say “loving” but wasn't sure how that would land). Dr. T: “Compassionate?” Me: “Yes, you seemed more compassionate. So, yes, it felt more harsh when you went from being very compassionate to being critical.”

We also addressed a couple other things, but those were the main points. I was trying to be very open about what I was experiencing, even though I was scared in some cases, while also being open to what he had to say. It felt like an important session, like I wonder if it could be a turning point of sorts?

[LonesomeTonight]

Originally Posted by ruh roh

Hi LT,

I'm glad you had a shift in your conversations with your therapist--pulling for you that it leads you to a more peaceful place within yourself because the world is always going to world.

I've been doing great. The therapist I had when I used to post here was a disaster. I took a break, but was such a mess from the last one that I re-entered the hellscape and found someone who is not too damaging, however, the burn from past toxic therapy has had long term effects. The good news is that the new one mostly keeps her stuff out of my therapy and is more skilled with trauma work, although she irritates the crap out of me with relational attempts. I limit what we work on and it's been just what I needed. I've thought of stopdog often because she is right about her assessment of lazy low-hanging fruit pickers who hang a shingle and can't explain what it is they do. My main goal has been to break free of therapy, and I've finally gotten to where that's happening.

Glad to hear you're doing so well, RR!