needing and not calling

Ok I do NEED to talk to t. But I know sh'e freaking busy this week. I can't stand the "waiting" much longer on when MD is going to approach t about what info i gave her.
YIKES!
I know t said that she has no time (since she had conferences this week - we had no meeting time) and she said if things got bad and I really needed her she'd make time.... but I don't feel this qualifies!
I just gotta breathe and get through.... 5 more days, holy crow. chances are MD hasn't talked to T yet anyway with the 4th of July and T being gone. I wish i could retract the whole thing!!! Take back the info...'take back the mink - what made ya think...that I was one of those girls! ' ok sorry - this is my brain on PANIC! Completely wrought by panic and anxiety. Unbelievable. I keep pacing the house wishing t would call, wishing i could call t.... trying to get myself to stop, replaying MD's words to me.....
STOP brain STOP!

Kiya,

So what would qualify?

I also have a hard time deciding what constitutes an emergency. I think you should wait a bit and if you are still overwhelmed with these feelings and anxiety, then go ahead and call T and see if a phone call will do, rather than an appointment?

Sigh. I am sorry you are having such a hard time. Lots of hugs coming your way.

Does she have a way for you to leave a message? Often that is very relieving for me.

((( Kiya )))

yeah you're right Miss- i waited 8 hours already. i can wait 4 more days. i think ...well nothing really qualifies to me when she says she's busy. I know she wouldn't not schedule just because -she tells me numerous times that she cares and even sometimes calls to check on me.

Echoes - i did email her (but she had said she was having computer problems). I could call and leave a message... i probably won't unless things start to head in the SI category.

no - i can get a grip. i think... maybe... at least until tomorrow!!!!

((((((((((( kiya ))))))))))))))
I am sorry that you are having a rough time.

Kiya,

OMG I was thinking in terms of an hour or two. You think you can wait four days?

Good for you!! But I vote for at least leaving a phone message.

If your T doesn't mind calls, why torture yourself? Did she say, "I'm busy... don't call me." Or did she just tell you that she's busy and now you feel bad for calling? I think you should leave the message... you could even say, "This is not an emergency, but I just really had to let you know...." Give yourself a break!!

Kiya,

Sorry your head is spinning so much!!!!! How about just trying to get through an hour at a time. If you can make it one hour, then maybe one more hour, and so on. Kind of like the "day at a time" thread from a couple weeks ago.

What else can you do to try to distract yourself? I sing to loud music or do crossword puzzles because they force me to concentrate. If I go for a shower or a drive it makes me worse because my thoughts start spinning again.

Good luck!

((((gimmeice)))))
((((((((miss)))))))
(((((((pink))))))))
((((Today))))))

Tonight at least I had the 4th and was with friends so that provided a bit of a distraction.... kinda. yeah, i may end up calling tomorrow. Pink - no she always says call whenever. I just try not to bug her. And I don't want her to think i'm needy or that i actually *need* her or something - Me?! Need?? Nevah.

Gosh I do need reassurances from her - and at the same time feel like she is going to totally reject me over this whole thing that MD is going to bring to her attention. Maybe I can just leave a message stating that I have sent several emails with info, and that my MD will be talking with her (if she hasn't already) and if it is possible for her to let me know when that happens so i can stop freaking out (like I'll really stop).... or just for assurances that she won't walk out on me.

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Kiya said:

Maybe I can just leave a message stating that I have sent several emails with info, and that my MD will be talking with her (if she hasn't already) and if it is possible for her to let me know when that happens so i can stop freaking out (like I'll really stop).... or just for assurances that she won't walk out on me.

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This sounds like a really good plan. My T is BIG on me asking for what I need. I'll bet yours is too!

[earthmama said:
My T is BIG on me asking for what I need.

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I think my T was trying to stress this in my last session to when she said, "Call me, you should have called me I would have talk to you." But even hearing this... it is nice to know that you CAN call if you really want/need to, but I still can't imagine actually calling. Maybe in my situation, just knowing I can is all I really need. (That's my story and I am sticking with it)

Kiya, I can definitely see what you are going through in your posts. If you spend the next waking hours asking yourself the should I call or shouldn't I call questions....I vote call. You contained it and held off calling long enough, maybe this is something that can't be contained.

Right or wrong for me I often ask myself some of the following:
What can my T really do to help me in X situation? Is there some decision to be made immediately and I want help with it? Am I just wanting to know she is out there somewhere? Am I worried that she may be misinterpreting something I said or did? If so, why can't I wait til our next session to clear things up? In the overall scope of things, is it really necessary for her to understand this information right at this moment? Is there something she can due (or will likely do) that can truly help me over the phone? Can I provide this to myself instead? For me in my situation after doing this I usually end up not calling. Last week I was told "I should have called".

I don't know what the right answer is for you Kiya. If after waiting all yesterday, you wake up today and are still asking yourself questions like the ones above-- then you are just torturing yourself and I vote Call.

Earthmama, chaotic - thanks - yes, t is big on my asking for help when i need it, you're right. I forgot that. and is also big on having me know i'm not alone in the process.
It is morning and i am still thinking about it. A little early yet to call anyone but around 10 perhaps (it's 7:30).
I think I will just ask her to please let me know when she gets the info - so i can stop assuming the worst.
Ugh - i need to go back to bed - I can't stop yawning.
I dreamt i went into a cake shop two different times, pretending the second time that I was on the phone and was someone else. Then the lady who had helped me came out and called me by name, even when I was standing in the shadows. Weird.

i hate it when you know that t is going to get some information and there is that panicky feeling that it will change everything and they will terminate or emotionally withdraw or whatever. so hard... but it does sound like you are doing really well (even though i understand that it really is very hard).

i dunno about calling... i really do understand the desire... and i'm sure she would reassure you. i know that emotionally it doesn't feel like it... but do you think that rationally she would reassure you too? maybe... you could spend some time imagining / visualizing that and trying to remember how much she cares about you? maybe that would help a bit? hang in there...

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Kiya said:

Gosh I do need reassurances from her - and at the same time feel like she is going to totally reject me over this whole thing that MD is going to bring to her attention. .... or just for assurances that she won't walk out on me.

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Kiya, can you imagine any other response that your T might have to what MD is going to tell her? You wrote before about talking with MD about moving away from your mother. And it sounded like that would be really healthy for you. When I read that, I remember thinking, great! And I was happy for you. You seemed scared and excited. Like maybe a new door was opening for you. I thought all that was a positive thing. Is that what you are worried T will reject you over? (Sorry, I don't want to pry.) It just seemed from what you wrote that you were contemplating what would be a big step forward for you, and MD was supportive. Maybe T would share your excitement? Be supportive? Want to discuss it further? Could you call your T and leave a message and tell her whatever it is you are worried MD will tell her yourself? just briefly, and tell her you are so anxious to talk to her about this. Maybe she will be able to call back. That way you can communicate what you want to communicate and not whatever "spin" MD will put on it. (I quite hate it when my professionals communicate about me--"behind my back" as I always say. They often get something "wrong" and when I learn what they have told each other, I find they have misinterpreted something really critical. It annoys the heck out of me and has caused problems, with my having to expend extra energy "undoing" the misunderstandings that were passed around about me. So I'm a big one in favor of direct communication to the one you want to know something.) Anyway, I hope you can consider other reactions your T might have (has she ever wanted to reject you before based on something MD told her?) and give her a call to relieve your fears.

I sure understand the "what qualifies as an emergency?" dilemma, but maybe leaving a message will relieve some anxiety? And, really, how much of an intrusion is that? NONE

I'm so sorry you're feeling this way.

=(
(((((((kim, Sunrise, Foreverlost)))))))))

as soon as i woke up again, i had decided that i can't call. i'm too ashamed and embarrassed. i don't want md to tell her at all and i don't want to have to talk about it. but i already sent an email explaining my fears (w/o the bulk of the knowledge) so i put myself into a corner.

I've been trying to see if i could even post the knowledge in here - but i worry i'd be rejected. it's probably not as bad as i make it out to be (which in a way is worse, making me a hysteric or something).

ok.... i'll try. it is about the house i live in with mom. it's unkempt, chaotic and therefore unclean. I don't have enough physical strenght these days to change it and mom (who i live with for financial reasons mostly) is unable to do anything because of her mental state (i think). So i am ashamed to live the way we do (i mean i know there is worse) and more ashamed to tell my care team. That's why i didn't tell t - she's a nurse and is very rigid about clean. She'd take one look at this pigsty and run the other way - probably all the way to social services and have us inspected. Which is what concerns me. And fearing that, I've tried to do some cleaning - and nearly blacked out from fatigue.
So that's today's big bad secret - which i am both undermining and creating into mt everest at alternating times.
I do need help getting out of here and away from mom's clinginess and emotional problems... and i am embarrassed to ask for help. for a lot of reasons. We've pretty much lived this way all our lives, so i don't even know how to do it different - but i am trying. and i think, in my own place, with the right skill set and support, i can do better.

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Kiya said:

ok.... i'll try. it is about the house i live in with mom. it's unkempt, chaotic and therefore unclean. I don't have enough physical strenght these days to change it and mom (who i live with for financial reasons mostly) is unable to do anything because of her mental state (i think). So i am ashamed to live the way we do (i mean i know there is worse) and more ashamed to tell my care team. That's why i didn't tell t - she's a nurse and is very rigid about clean. She'd take one look at this pigsty and run the other way - probably all the way to social services and have us inspected. Which is what concerns me. And fearing that, I've tried to do some cleaning - and nearly blacked out from fatigue.
So that's today's big bad secret - which i am both undermining and creating into mt everest at alternating times.
I do need help getting out of here and away from mom's clinginess and emotional problems... and i am embarrassed to ask for help. for a lot of reasons. We've pretty much lived this way all our lives, so i don't even know how to do it different - but i am trying. and i think, in my own place, with the right skill set and support, i can do better.

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Kiya, I'm sort of sitting here, open-mouthed as I read this because of the striking similarities to my own experience-- the big difference being that I moved out of my house when I was 20.

My mom's house (and, frankly, also, my mom) are also unkempt and unclean. After 3 years with my T, I have barely been able to describle this to him in direct words. I am so embarrassed, mostly because I see it, somehow, as a reflection of me-- like, if I tell him that my mom doesn't clean the house or take care of herself, then he will assume that I don't clean my house or take care of myself.

Today is session, he actually said to me, "You are not your mom. You have a far more interesting job, and better shoes." LOL. We weren't even talking about the cleanliness thing, but he knows how I tend to get scared that I am my mother, in many different circumstances.

My mom is also the way that she is because of her mental state. Talking with T about the way she is verses the way that I am helps me to differentiate. It helps me realize all of the ways we are different, and the reasons why I will NOT be going down the path that she did.

I have a lot of trouble dealing with this issue. When I go back to visit my family, I cannot even go into the house because it bothers me so much. I have dreams about the condition of the house. I so understand where you are coming from. Although I do talk with my T about my mom, it is difficult, and I feel ashamed and embarrassed. I have never even told my husband directly about the severity of her lack of self-care-- I mean, he knows about it because he has seen my mother four billion times in the seven years we have been together-- but I haven't been able to come out and say certain things because, again, I feel like it is too much a reflection on me.

(((((((((((((((((((((KIYA)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))

"After 3 years with my T, I have barely been able to describle this to him in direct words. I am so embarrassed, mostly because I see it, somehow, as a reflection of me-- like, if I tell him that my mom doesn't clean the house or take care of herself, then he will assume that I don't clean my house or take care of myself."

*tears welling up in my eyes* - yeah, that is exactly it.
I'm really thankful you posted. I couldn't even express why it upset me so much to have to divuldge this info to my care team. And that is it. I couldn't feel more like a loser, a piece of dirt in this house; i'm 31 and not on my own. My few attempts of life on my own have been disastrous. I haven't even tried since 2000. I do feel like it is a direct representation of me - even tho, under the circumstances, i am as cleanly as I possibly can be - even tho my own personal space is chaos and dusty. I felt like i needed to tell my md that (i didn't, I couldn't find the words). Last month when I saw her she reached out and touched my knee to let me know she was there as a real person (there is hardly any physical contact with her - not even listening to heart or lungs or anything. it's mostly talk about symptoms). After reading the letter I gave her trying to detail my life, there was no such contact. I felt contaminated. She is working on helping me out of it.... so i know she cares. but i really felt like i was a dog that had rolled in something smelly. I felt like saying, "Yes, but i wash and scrub every inch vigorously daily!!!''
Though MD told me she too comes from the same background and really understands. She even told me when she was a kid she scrubbed the floor in one little area so she could have a clean place to sit by the window
(heart breaks)... So, of the two, I am glad i chose her to tell. I am still afraid t will now look at me like a cockroach. i have to trust she won't.

Thanks pink! ((((((((Pink!!)))))))))))

You know, some people laugh when they find out that the first thing I do on a Sunday morning (knowing that I am not going out for the entire day) is take a shower and put on a full face of makeup, then fix my hair. I do this because it places me at a point that is very far away from what I would call "becoming my mother." Aside from doing things that "prove" that I am not like her, I am working on genuinely understanding that we are two different people and I when I DO see simliarties between us, realizing that I handle them a lot differently than she would. You must really connect with your MD. You are really lucky to have her. I think that if and when you tell your T, she will look at you as YOU-- not like a roach, not like your mother, not like anyone but you. You are Kiya-- not your house, not your mother, not the dirt on the floor. Just you.

Kiya, I really understand this. And I feel that shame too for my own situation. My and my H's house grew very messy and unkept and rundown as our marriage deteriorated. We were both very depressed and neither could be bothered to do anything. It just got worse and worse. The living areas are "clean" but messy. The basement is a disaster. When the girls got their rooms painted 3 years ago, they dumped all the stuff from their rooms in the basement. Then when they moved book into their rooms, they left their mounds of junk downstairs. I can't even start on it. I feel like such a failure because of this. And my H moved out 8 months ago and took minimal things. He still hasn't come back to get his stuff! I have all of his junk which I don't want. And mine. And the girls. Twenty years accumulation. It is awful. I never talked about this problem with my T. It was too embarrassing and shameful. Then the child specialist had to come to my home a few times to interview my girls. I cleaned up as best as I could. Then I met with her and she brought this up and told me I had to clean up because it was affecting my mental health, depressing me, the weight of the disorder and chaos. She is so right. What is worse is at a meeting with me, my T and my H, she told everyone of this problem, so now my T had someone else tell him how dysfunctional I am at home. It was really awful. But I am glad it is out. Both the child specialist and my T are helping me with this problem. Kiya, your T is not going to reject you because of this. She will help you deal with this. My T explored my related dysfunctionalities, suspected ADHD, and sent me to a PNP for further diagnosis. I am now taking meds, and have seen a tremendous improvement in my ability to start tasks and finish them, keep order, not lose things, etc. I have cleaned up the outside of the house and yard and it looks great (got to start somewhere, the place is falling apart). I still have a long way to go inside the house, but I really want to do this now, and with my PNP's help, maybe I can. She is also working with me on behavioral solutions so I can beat this. One of my first big goals for myself is to make all the repairs on the house that need to be done. I have allotted 3 years to do this so as to spread the cost. It will cost about $30K or more. First up, if I have enough cash, is a new roof this Fall. I feel like the state of the house mirrors the state of me. And if I can make progress on the house, I will also make progress on my own mental health and happiness. It makes me feel bad about myself to read how you and Pink have lived/do live in these disatrous houses with your mothers who could not keep order. Maybe my girls feel that way about me? I am really trying my best. (And I know part of this was my H's responsibility too, but he's gone now, to his nice new, clean house free of junk.) If only my girls would help with their own stuff. It is a big part of the problem. This is not all my fault. Maybe I just need to throw all their stuff away. But they would have a fit... It is certainly not the case that I have two nice neat clean girls who do not "fit in" to the disorder in the house. I worry though, now that you and Pink have said this. Maybe it is all my fault. Just adds to my sense of failure over the marriage.

Anyway, I just wanted you to know I understand the shame. I want to reassure you that your T is not going to reject you over this. She is going to help you!

Wow - much learning going on for me. Sunrise, thanks for posting that. Hmmm i am having to integrate all this. I really relate to this "I feel like the state of the house mirrors the state of me. And if I can make progress on the house, I will also make progress on my own mental health and happiness." That's exactly what MD said to me too - you also said - that i am feeling so bad right now health wise from this emotiona/mental heaviness that stems from this chaos.
And you know - what you said about how you are afraid your girls think that about you, and how your husband was apart of it. It is all going round in my head. My mom's husband - same thing - he faulted her, she faulted me. He left to his clean uncluttered new house. I learned from my mom these traits and cannot now change them without help and a lot of the chaos is mine. She faults me entirely, but her room is worse than mine.
So - i think applying fault is not helpful. Unlearning habits is. It did help me some to repeat to myself "this is not my fault" but i do have to take ownership halfway - i have been so depressed that I stopped trying to beat it. And really, i can't beat something I don't understand. Don't fault yourself, k? These things ( i am learning ) do not happen in a "vacuum". They have organic beginnings and come from somewhere.

Pink - "when you tell your T, she will look at you as YOU-- not like a roach, not like your mother, not like anyone but you. You are Kiya-- not your house, not your mother, not the dirt on the floor. Just you. " - thanks. I really needed that. I need to print it and carry it in my pocket.

I did call T. And MD also. (messages to both) I told them both I am ready. I see i need help and i am ready to take those steps and get out of here.

kiya love.. i am so sorry. There are many mountains we must climb but none seem so difficult and painful as the ones which grow from embarrassment. i dont know why this is.. we cannot literally die from embarrassment.. but the pain internally is so terrible. You are so brave my dear. i admire your courage.

hey. my niece went through this as well... my mother... well... we had collections of (what i like to think of as 'junk') fairly much everywhere... two thirds of a double garage was piled to the ceiling with stuff that had been accumulated (mostly from her parents death). but... the place was clean, i guess, and not a fire hazard. whereas with my niece... 'fire hazard', they said...

i understand about how you can feel 'dirty' and to blame - even when it isn't your issue. it sucks to have demands put on us (e.g., the demand to clean up) that we simply can't meet (e.g., it is beyond your role as the kid, and probably beyond your capacity too). leaves us feeling... dirty and deficient. and feels like... a big secret... that if others find out then they will see us as dirty and deficient too, and that they will reject us.

everyone has stuff like that sweetie. everyone. i'm not at all saying this to undermine how hard it is for you. just saying it by way of reassuring you that (i'm pretty damn sure) that everyone has something about them that is hard (oh so hard) like that. even if your t rejected you on the basis of this that would signify that she hadn't dealt with that same issue in herself (e.g., that she couldn't cope with the feelings of her own inadequacy and deficiency and failing). it is hard... but i'm pretty damned sure that she won't at all be disgusted with you or blame you over this. pretty damned sure. but then... i put myself in your position and i understand the absolute terror...

> I did call T. And MD also. (messages to both) I told them both I am ready. I see i need help and i am ready to take those steps and get out of here.

that is awesome. you hang in there. my heart goes out to you.

((((((((( thanks FLUFF and KIM ))))))))))))))

heh...now i'm back to waiting. *grin*. let's seeeeeeee...
still four more days because t apnt is at the end of the day wed.

(((( kiya ))))

You are taking such good care of yourself!! Congratulations on making the phone calls and in getting through this immensely stressful time!!

if okay