Can't shake the thoughts this week

This is your journey Belle - only you know what's best for you. I'm very familiar with the emotions you're feeling. Anytime you want to talk, feel free to PM me.

Thank to you both xxooxx

Byz, I didn't mean to sound so harsh. I was have a very black day and you copped the brunt of it. Sorry xxx

Belle, I hope you are OK. I am thinking of you xxx

Just wanted to add one thing....

"Your emotions are yours, not you."

It's good to control our emotions not let them to take control of us!

xoxoxoxo
Marjan

You are among friends Belle. Please don't stop posting. You have gained much from talking so don't quit now. While I appreciate that you were flamed by the bluntness of Byz message a part of you may agree that your responses to Mark and the situation in fact are quite predictable. You have put yourself in a holding pattern waiting for Mark to give you answers. That makes your responses to him while you wait predictable if you get my drift. It doesn't mean I or Byz (though it isn't my place to speak for anyone but myself)... it doesn't mean that I can't support you through the time of waiting and hoping and processing everything as it happens. Being predictiable isn't necessarily a negative thing. It just describes a state of being in time. I think when we are holding on to love for good or for bad we all become quite predictable. Only you know if it is worth the holding on or know when it might be time to let go. Either way we support you Belle as a person we have come to care deeply about.

The support I and others here offer to you is unconditional and while sometimes I may be quite blunt with my observations.... they are just that..... my outsider observations. I hope you can appreciate that I care about you and your future happiness and yes I have formed an opinion about Mark and I do think you deserve so much more than he can possibly give you at this time in his life but I don't know him from Adam so my opinion is just an opinion for you to consider and weight in light of your own truth. Whatever you do I will be here to comfort you and love you and rejoice with you no matter what.

I think that is what all of us try to do for each other at PC and sometimes it can seem like a harsh slapp and sometimes it can be just the wake up call we needed to hear. It is often a question of timing more than it is the message itself. And time is a hard thing to judge. When is someone ready or willing to hear a contrary or provocative point of view? Tricky to know for sure. Either way you have to filter our comments through your own truth and put it into the context of your own place and time on your life's journey.

Anyways.... between my babbling I just want to wish you well and I hope you will continue to let us be here for you when you need to get it out of your head and rest among friends.

Thank you Sanity

I love you, marjan, tatyana and all the others that have been there for me over the past 6 months.

I do want him to become single and then see where friendship can take us. I don't know if it will work out or not - and I HATE playing this waiting game... but I stick by my end of May deadline..
I haven't contacted him for two days... it's harder to do than ever before.

On a different note I am still seeing Richard.. well 'seeing' isn't really true.. I have had the two dates and we talk or message every day. I let him know that being 'clingy' and just letting me walk alove him wasn't a way to win my affections (bascially told him to grow a back bone) - it hasn't really worked but he's trying LOL
He knows about the Mark situation - I can't keep that a secret especially when Richard wants a relationship with me... So he knows where we stand for the moment.

I have my T appointment tonight... nervous to be honest - not sure what he will say about the whole Mark thing...

Take care girls - love you all heaps xxooxx

I had some contact with Mark this morning... I started it for it's my fault...
He still hasn't made up his mind - frustrating. All I want is a simple yes or no. Tpday would be a good day for it as then I could discuss it at my T appointment...
I'm waiting (my choice)... just to see the outcome (what ever it may be) all the way through to the end....

Just let it go....you will be fine!

Hope your session with your T went well Belle. Good you have a place to take all of this to talk through. Wishing you well always. Its good you can keep yourself busy. Take good care.

Thanks girls xx

My T appointment went well. Suprisingly unemotional really.
I am (and he agrees) handling it all very well. We are getting to the end of the help that he can give me I'm almost ready to face the world on my own again!!!
It has gotten to a stage where all my 'problems' such as being controlling and self sacrificing (spelling??) are at the fore front of my mind - therefore I know what to do and what not to do now.
I will be sad when the sessions come to an end but I DO feel like a totally different person, I'm stronger and know how I want my life to play out now.
I am the only person that can make me happy and I deserve it so much that I WILL treat myself that way. No one else in this world deserves me to give the 'whole' of me away for them (until I have kids - that's a diffferent situation.)

We did talk about the Mark situation. My T has given me the strength over the past 6 months to deal with anything that happens to me in the future.
As I have given Mark until the end of May I do have one more appointment with my T just as a follow up to what ever happens.
The one thing that he was adamant about (and I had this in my head) is that if Mark and I decided to try a relationship again, then he will need to attend therapy, firstly to help him with the issues in his head, secondly to ensure that if we were to make a go of getting back together that it is REALLY what he wants, that he does love me etc. Thirdly, we would need to find the reasons behind him leaving me and hooking up with Lisa in the first place.
I know that I was NOT at fault in any of it now - so the issues that could be ahead are soley his - I will help and attend counselling if need be.

I just want to be happy in the future. I am not 'in love' with Mark though I do 'love' him. I do not want to go back to what we had. I want a future when equality is the main point. I want a future with him if he makes that choice.

Long post SORRY!!

Hi Belle, thanks for the love and love back to you!! xxx

I hope you are OK. You sounds a bit more resolved and solid. I wonder whether investing so much energy in the mark situation is working for you...

Maybe - as you decided to wait until the end of May - take a break from pondering. Deciding not to think about the situation can be very rewarding and open space for you and yours.

I wish I could give you a big big hug xxx

I love this....great attitude....you gave me so much energy by this quote....
good that you feel better....take care of yourself....

Thanks everyone.

I just need to write out what's in my head - same old same

It's Sunday night here and they always seem to be the evening I get a little depressed.. maybe because I have finally wound down from the working week and gearing up for the next one.. not sure.

I'm strugglng today with what I feel for Mark...I love him and are sick of waiting... but really can you put a time limit on when/if feelings change? Have I cut of my nose despite my face by givng him til the end of May? I had to set some time frame for my sanity (which feels non existant tonight).... but come midnight on the 31st then what.. I text him and say "well which way is this going to go?".. that doesn't make much sense.

At work he seems happy enough with her (so I am told)... so maybe him still living with her is a sign in it's self.. he has chosen but hasn't got the guts to tell me.
He tells me that he will let me know when he has sorted out his feelings. I trust him enough to do that for me, especially seeing I had previously given him so much of myself that it is a small thing to ask in return. I believe him when he tells me he is still confused - emotionally distant is how he is/was most of the time. But to continue living 'happily' (on the face of it) seems to spell out a different answer.
He knows that I am in a sort of limbo - so I hope that he can be decent enough to tell me when he is ready.
It shouldn't be a hard question... it's not me or her.. it's simply 'does he love her and want to spend his life with her'... Love should NOT be questioned or die after 5 months of a relationship... it's still the honeymoon stage IMO... the first 3 years are bliss. then things start to settle down into a natural rythym.

If he stays with her I have to withdraw my friendship to protect myself from any future "miss you, miss us" comments.... And to be honest I REALLY don't want to have to do that and I don't even know if I can.
It makes me cry just to think of never speaking with him again in my life time..

End of the babble now..

On a weird note... my new guy has just told me he loves me... We have only been seeing each other for a few weeks.. is that REALLY possible? Freaky.
He knows about the Mark situation so I'm not givng him any false ideas of a realtionship or a future.

((((Belle)))))

just hang in there....trust me....things will get better....sometimes, it's really hard to accept the reality....

I used to be all messed up over Aaron.....but now I'm okay....I don't see him and I'm fine....yes...I think about him time to time....and that's because I'm alone.....at least you have a guy right now to tell you "I Love u"....that's cool....

when you can't be with the one that you love, then love the one that you are with....

Mark is with another woman, he left you for her, what else you are expecting from that guy??? you even give him more time of your life.....instead of punishing him.....it's really confusing situation you made for yourself.....

It's better to be sad rather than losing your dignity over a guy!

sit down and pray....calm yourself down....and never trust him again....IMO

(sorry girl for being harsh....but you need to wake up)

with love
Marjan

Hi Marjan,

Harsh is okay today LOL I am feeling pretty strong

I trully hope I am not losing my dignity over him... that would be horrible and confronting at the same time.
I give him more time of my life because the truth is I can't imagine a life without him in it - even as a friend... We shared so much over the years, so many horrible things that we helped each other through... from my drinking to his step father having a stoke... just being there for each other.

My T has told me I am doing the right thing in regards to the Mark situation.. he wasn't just feeding me back what I wanted to hear.. that's not his style of therapy LOL I think that's why we have worked well together to get me to where I am at... he's a blunt and to the point as I am most of the time

One thing that we did talk about is that trust can't be earnt.. it's either there or it's not... and the funny thing is that I do trust Mark - even I am suprised to know that!!

I can't love the one I am with... until I know that the one I love REALLY doesn't love me in any way...

Love Belle xxooxx

good that you feel better.....

Belle sweety,

Some points to think about:

-Maybe look at your life script. I sense there is an 'until...' going on
-Maybe examine whether you are afraid of committing.
-And whether your need to control leads to not letting go and accepting that things are the way they are
-Try to imagine where you want to be in 12 years time. Then think what you need to do achieve this. Then do it.

I hug you as always my sweet xxx

Thanks girls

Today was a bad day... but ended up good - thanks to my best friend Michelle letting me vent when we walked

Mark seems to have it in his head that I want a realationship with him.. that I want him to leave her and then fall into my arms...
My arms are NOT waiting!!
I don't even know if I do still love him and I can't make that decision until WAAAY into the future... he would have to actually be a friend first - can't go back and I don't want too.
I want him to face the truth that's all. I want him to finally be happy within himself... not an unsure, emotional, F**ked up mess in his head.

I have said to him today that after the end of the month I reserve the right to hate him... and to be honest I think that if he hasn't done something to prove to me that my friendship means something to him then I will hate him.

I was over it all (still had bad days but I was getting through them) until he sent that freaking message....I didn't 'dream it' he stired up all these emotions again and for what reason?
The only thing it has done is totally mess with my mind and emotions

Rant rant rant rant rant... I am sick of being misunderstood

Hi Belle, hope you are having a good day over there. I just thought I would share a couple of observations for what they are worth.

Mark is not the only one who thought/thinks that. I thought that was your ultimate goal too.

I think it is fair to say that we all want that for people we care about.... including ourselves. lol. But what is up with the timeline if that is really your only interest? Why is you life on hold if your only interest in Mark is as a friend who cares about his happiness? I can't imagine anyone putting their life on hold or giving me a timeline to get me head on straight. That is hardly something I would expect any friend to ask of me or ever expect that I could deliver on.

Maybe I am misunderstanding you but what truth are you asking him to face? I thought it was all about getting him to admit that he doesn't really love Lisa? That he really still loves you? That he made a mistake breaking up with you? That he wants to get back together? What other truth could you be looking for? Is it simply as a friend you want him to be honest with himself about how messed up he is? Did he ask you to be his friend and help him get his head on straight?

Wow Belle. Would you impose that same criteria on any other friendship? Do you set bars for your other friends to meet to prove their friendship to you? Do you see what I am getting at? Is it really about friendship or is it not as Mark and I pressume from you actions that you want more than friendship in the end? Just asking.

This part I get but again only from the context of you feeling as though there was a chance of getting back together again; Not merely to evolve your relationship into some new friendship. Is that really all you want from Mark Belle?

My ex maintained contact and friendships of sorts with his ex's before me and we definately have evolved our relationship into a close friendship. When we were together he would tell me about his phone chat with his ex-wife. Though I never met her I knew all about her because he would talk about their converstations. I can't image he would ever say to her "I miss you... I miss us" He had moved on and so had she. They talked about their work and their families and those kinds of things that connected them because they had been together for 12 years. He had contact with her brothers and I even met a couple of them and socialized with them. Those kinds of relationships carried forward into his new life with me. His ex never wanted to meet me mostly because I had the son she so desperately wanted to give him but couldn't so it was painful for her. He also had a daughter with another woman before me but after his marriage. We used to spend holidays together so that our kids would bond. Her and I still connect even though our kids are grown and maintaining their own contact with each other now. The only contact my ex has with this woman is around the daughter. Otherwise they never really developed a lasting friendship. Not like he has with his first wife.

When he and I broke up I was concerned for his happiness. I knew he was the kind of guy that was better with a woman in his life. I told him, and I honestly thought this even through my own heart break that our relationship didn't work.... I told him he should go back to his first wife. They had shared a lot of years together and if she had been able to have children perhaps they would still be together. They had a lot in common. The family still loved her. He obviously still cared for her since they were still friends and it just made sense to me. He laughed at the idea. He said the marriage didn't work for a lot of other reasons and besides that... he never goes back. Even if he thought it was a mistake to leave her... which he didn't.... even if he missed the life they had.... which he did... geesh he used to always talk about their active social life when complaining about how anti-social I was... but still he wasn't the type to regret or go back.

The friendship my ex developed with his ex didn't happen right away. I think it was a couple of years before they really reconnected as friends. She was very hurt by the breakup. They had tired to get back together but it didn't work out a second time so it took her a long time to get over it all and open herself up to being friends. Being the kind of guy he is he didn't stop calling and checking up on her so the friendship grew.

She finally did meet our son when they were visiting in her area on a hunting trip. She even had them over for dinner and went with them to dinner with my ex's brother. She never did want to meet me and I guess that is why I always thought she must still love him and want him back if somehow that could happen. The second woman had no interest in getting back with my ex and I think that is why we became friends while the first wife had no interest in a friendship with me. She still wanted him.

The first and second never became friends either. I image that is more because he was still with the first when he hooked up and got the second pregnant. That was the killer of the marriage. They tried a second time when he assured her it was a mistake and he still wanted the marriage but it lasted only a few months.

There was another woman between the second and me but it didn't last very long either. He even moved away to get away from her. I remember when we started dating she would always call and invite herself to visit him. It took her a long time to finally let go.

By now you might guess that my ex had a bit of a womanizer streak to him. lol. Like I said... he doesn't do well without a woman by his side. But that is his issue. Not mine. Coming out of our relationship I worried for him and tried to manage his life by suggesting he go back to his first wife but soon had to let go and let him make his own choices. We are friends now and I can joke with him about his dates or lack there of...... he is getting pretty old now.... lol. I couldn't have done that when I was holding on to hope that he was coming back to me but now that I am resigned to the fact that we will never go back... as his friend I can.

Is it really friendship you want Belle or is it something more? Are you really seeing this end of month deadline for what it is or are you fooling yourself about it. Just wonder who is misunderstanding what about your current situation.

Letting go is so very hard to do. It took me 5 plus years to give up the hope. Heartbreak is not something you can get over quickly. Owning the truth is a daily process in the beginning.

When I first met up with you here I was still holding onto hope. Somehow in the process of standing with you these past few months I have finally let it go completely. The last thread has finally been cut. I am 100% just a friend to my ex now. I couldn't have said that a few months ago. I faked it with him to keep a friendship going but now I am not faking. I am okay to just be his friend. His sister's still introduce me as their sister-in-law but it doesn't cause me to hope it to be true anymore. It is just how they relate to me after 18 years.

Long story but hope there is something in there that you can relate to and consider in context with your own situation. My heart aches for your suffering Belle. I so wish I could fast forward time for you or at least fast forward the process.

Maybe Mark will come to know his own mind before the end of the month. So long as you don't require him to meet your expectations you can't be hurt further by his choices. I fear that is not the case thought. I fear your own sense of happiness is dependant on his choices. That is a tough place to put yourself.

Either way.... here for you through it all Belle. May all your dreams come true. Blessings.

((((((belle))))))

it sounds like things are definitely rough for you these days and that is so understandable. i thought the deadline was really more for you than mark when you made it. to give yourself a time limit and then move on if his situation didn't change. i think it's good he knows because it gives things a real shot of happening, but of course that is rather excruciating for you to wait. belle, if he doesn't leave lisa then it's time to move on. your feelings won't change and you'll still love him, but that is when your sanity has to kick in and you do the healthy thing for yourself and detach from him. what you need to be really careful about is not to jump right into another relationship with someone else. that would just be avoiding the grieving and not be fair to the guy anyway. i've heard to really get over someone it takes roughly a month for every six months of the relationship. of course that is just a guideline but it might help you to see that this is going to take time. trying to manage your feelings with busyness or avoid them never works. they have to be felt at some point. i know this is all so hard but in the long run i think you'll be glad you gave mark another shot so you won't always wonder "what if". it's just going through it that is so terribly hard.

Hi sanity


I just do see what I can do anymore. I am so depressed and back to crying at night (along with crying now)... I wish he had never sent the message if it was just a fleeting feeling that he had... but it wasn't he told me that he had felt that way for months.. and that he doubted his love for her for months too...
Why send the message unless you expect some sort of outcome? Deep down inside he MUST have known that I would come to his rescue if he was feeling down/sad/confused... I always had in the past.

No doubt he expected and got the reaction he wanted. Attention on him. You at his beck and call. Further proof of his lack of character and very good reason to cut him out of your life. Your life may not be on hold per say but it is being held up emotionally will he volleys with the the ball on his side of the court.

I am so sorry you are depressed again. I too wish he had not sent the message. Whatever his problem I wish it didn't have to effect you.

Even so you are a strong and resilient woman and one way or another you will get through this and find your way towards happiness again. Of that I continue to believe. I believe in you Belle.

Thanks Sanity

No matter what happens all I can say is that I gave it my best shot... The outcome will sort it's self out and I just need to trust in world that it will be the best outcome for me no matter what.

My hope is with you to find your peace. Take good care my friend.