The End of a Relationship

That's what I don't understand, is how or why she did it the way she did... she must've been so frustrated with the relationship to have done that, but at the same time, I just thought she was more than that...

Totally... It still amazes me and my head is still spinning by how quickly my world has come crumbling down around me. Everything changed overnight, and I went from spending so much time with her and her son, to nothing.

I'm not sure I'll ever know what really happened, why her feelings seemingly changed so quickly (even if it happened over weeks, it seems like she would've realized that and could've said something!). There's no excuse for someone who says they care about you to treat you in a disrespectful manner, in a way that shows just the opposite.

If she had cared about me, she would've talked to me before acting on her feelings. It's just basic respect, responsibility, and maturity. I thought she had those things. Apparently not, and I'm not sure how I could've been so wrong...

John

DocJohn,
I don't think you were wrong as you say at the end. I think you put complete trust in her and fell in love deeply. I know that when I fall in love I become blind to some things about the other person and I think that's very human. We see all their greatness. Love and chemistry somehow can make things seem different and in our minds they are as we see them (usually pretty wonderful). I mean I saw glimses of the things that were not going right at times but then chose to trust over it all. I was guilty of trusting and loving and trying to see the beauty. I don't know if I'm making sense....just speaking on what I feel happened with me.

You have every right to be angry, too. Your trust was betrayed. She was not upfront with you and not totally honest, she shirked her responsibility to the committment, and acted in a selfish, uncaring manner (seeing someone else at the same time) toward you. I really hope that you will put your need to heal ahead of her now. I say that because I know that you trusted her and were let down bad. I think it's a good idea for you to take care of #1 and feel and do what you need to in order to grieve this. I hope you will take your own time in grieving this, too, as I know that's important. Maybe even take a vacation (?) sometime to somewhere nice where you can just let yourself feel whatever you feel. (I used to take mini vacations or one tank trips just to get away when I was in college) Hope you will keep "talking" about it here, too. Take care, CQ

<font color=orange>"I must lose myself in action,
lest I wither in despair." Lord Tennyson</font color=orange>

I know this is hard, but if you can, try to see things from her perspective. I am sure it was not sudden, she just could not express to you what she was going through. The suddeness was her decision to finally act upon her feelings. I am sure she questions her decisions, which is why she tells you she needs to think about everything. However, for your sake, you need to move on. You probably never will know what motivated her to make the decision that she did. I am sure she does care about you, she has just made some bad choices regarding the way she is acting. The right thing to do would be to talk to you first and resolve the relationship. Instead, she got involved with someone else first - probably because this made her decision easier for her - and, unfortunately, more painful for you.
I agree with CQ, you seem to be a nice, compassionate person and I am sure someone else will appreciate these qualities in you soon.

You know, I'm starting to come to similar conclusions as curlq and kitty. I'm also thinking that this is a one-sided view of the situation, and a distraught one at that. But, if she did all these things as you say, and has behaved this way, then she does sound pretty immature, and you deserve better than that.

I like to think that sometimes things happen for a reason. I don't know if this would help or hurt, but what if you thought of this whole breakup situation this way: you were engaged. You could have been married to her (to me, a sacred act), and this breakup could have occurred while married. I think this is one of those blessings in disguise. Sure, you can think "I'm not getting any younger." But, we all are, and with age comes wisdom (or so they say...)

You're right. It's "basic respect, responsibility, and maturity." I also agree with curlq that love can be blind. It can give us those rose-colored glasses. Sure, there are problems, but we're so certain that all that's good about being in love will seem greater than any obstacle, that we may downplay those problems. Those seem to be the things in a relationship that will come back and bite you in the butt.

Finally, or maybe not, I have this to say about having friends. I spent over 15 years working with virtually the same people, primarily women, in this one department at this company for which I've worked for almost all my adult life (well, up to this point). Almost all are either married or in long-term relationships. In all those years, I can probably count on one hand the number of times I did anything with anyone outside of work. There were a couple group things (baby showers or weddings), and a couple times, I hooked up with other single co-workers (female): once, for a cruise (also was a group thing with her friends that didn't work for our company) and a few other times, I went shopping with them. It was not for my lack of trying. I consistently asked others if they wanted to do something (go shopping, see movies, etc.), and they may seem interested, but their own lives were plenty full without me in it. So, for the longest time, I was miserable, severely depressed and felt like I would be alone forever. And I actually felt that way up until about a little over a year ago. What changed? New department, with new people, and this time mostly male. I still see my other friends, but my "new friends" ask me to go out after work to have a couple drinks (in a group, but usually only 3 or 4 show up). Yesterday, for the first time, I went to this other developer's house where 4 of us "computer nerds" played a 3-D game on a LAN. A couple years ago, I would never have done that. What changed? Most certainly I have changed enough so that people want to spend time with me, or at least that's what I think, but also I have found a group of people that I have a better fit with. It's the total opposite from the group I spent so many years with: male programmers vs. female artists. Who'd have thought?

Okay, I know. It's too late to make a long story short (sorry). But, I guess what I wanted to say is this: it is possible to have "local" friends. Also, like curlyq or kitty said (I forget -- can't see the other posts): take care of yourself first. We have to take care of ourselves first, so we can be there for ourselves as well as others.

Do you still have your cat, Max? Have you been doing any of the things that you say you enjoy, like woodworking, refinishing furniture, going antiquing, bicycling, hiking? (I went hiking last weekend with my digital camera. I didn't take too many pictures, but I did realize that I can't walk uphill on pine needles in sneakers with no tread!) Or have you been watching too much TV?

Okay, I've broken one of my rules: not to write too much. But, after conversing with you during the past five years, (ever since the good old days of Mental Help Net (I liked the "houses") and Psych Central on the Web Chat Broadcasting System), I feel like I can say that, during the past 5 years, you have always come across as a kind and generous person, and you certainly deserve the same.

Okay, enough for now. Using capital letters is tiring

Take care, get yourself to (pronounced FAN-yel for those who don't know), take a <A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.bostonducktours.com/pages/main.html>Boston Duck Tour if you haven't before, take a swan boat ride (at the , or take in any of the other <A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.theinsider.com/Boston/Fun/Fun.htm>Fun Things to Do In Boston.

Take care,

splash
(normally not an uppercase poster )

Maybe she could be diagnosed with Borderline Personality Disorder?

In her mind, she believes she tried. I believe that, in all fairness, she did try once or twice outside of an argument to bring up this issue.

Today, I just found a note she wrote me nearly a year ago about how she was feeling that something was "missing" from the relationship, but she couldn't pin it down. She wanted us to take a break, and just date or something (this was after we were engaged). She didn't know what it was.

At the time, I remember we talked about the letter and all, but I don't remember us really taking any action on it. I think I just convinced her that the only way she could find that missing thing was to stay in the relationship and keep working on it. I now see, in retrospect, a few things:

1. I should've taken the letter far more seriously, but instead I was dealing with my own denial and expectations and didn't. We should've did what she wanted then, or sought out couples counseling. We did neither, and that was my fault.

2. Given this letter, and given another instance inbetween that time and when this thing just happened, she says she did try and bring it up another time. I don't remember it (I don't have the world's greatest memory), but believe her, and her description of it, that again I basically said, "Why talk about this when things are going so well?" In others words, ignorance is bliss. I felt like talking about it, I might find out she didn't want to be in the relationship any longer.

So now, after reading that letter again today, and all, I can't help but see more of the relationship from her perspective and see that she did try. While it may still not justify her doing what she did, I understand more of where she was coming from and how she felt like, maybe, she didn't have much choice.

This is hard for me to write, because it shows that there was more to this than met the eye, and I didn't even realize it until today.

John

I wish I could give you hug! {{{DocJohn}}} You sound so sweet, so real, so human. I am going through a divorce and times are very hard now in every respect. Now if you were my psych we could talk over everything together. But you know what? You are in a way. We all are around here. We come here for the support, encouragement, and friendship that we need. I wish that I could write more but I have to go now. You seem to be a really nice guy going through a difficult time. Join our club, share a few hugs. Hope your days get better!

It's getting there... and thank you and everybody else who's given me hugs, they really are appreciated!!

Just wondering how it's going at this point DocJohn?

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<font color=red>"The first precept was never to accept a thing as true until I knew it as such without a single doubt." Rene Descartes, 'Le Discours de la Methode,' 1637</font color=red>

Yes, please update us! We care about you!!!! How are you? Do things feel any better?

Well, I was doing fine until Thursday night when I had a relapse...

She came over to watch Friends with me, and gave me the impression that I was "still in the running" and she missed me terribly, and if things kept going the way they were, there's a lot of hope...

Of course, then she went and saw "him" again on Saturday and decided that a sea change took place in her after that and we're completely over now.

Completely.

Okay, I know, I know, I should've just ignored her when she said those things on Thursday night. We were being so playful with each other, and it just felt so natural and right. I did give myself a little hope, I did allow myself that, and boom, we're over again.

Freakin' emotional rollercoaster I allowed myself on.

I should've have done that. I admit, I still have those feelings for her, so how could I have said no? And yet, for my own sanity and well-being, I know I have to start doing that with her. Not that it's an issue any longer...

So that's how it's going. I went to NJ on Friday-Saturday to visit some very dear old close friends, and that went well, but I also didn't hear back from her on Saturday so I suspected something was up. When she called me this morning, I sorta knew something was up, but she denied it. Until I finally said, "Look, something's up!" when I called her back an hour ago. Finally she admitted it.

Damn, I'm so stupid...

John

Hi,
This is my own opinion so please do not be offended by what I say, but sounds like she is playing "mind games" with you. I think you both must make the decision right now not to be together while she is seeing this other guy, it is not fair to you to be the "part time" lover or the "fill in". Do you think this is maybe becomming an ego trip for her? After being steady with someone it is almost impossible to resort to just "seeing" one another, plus I personally couldn't emotional stand it, it would become painful. It is different if you both were only dating from the begining, but it sounds like from what you've expressed that it was more. It may be hard for you at first but try not to be so available to her right now. Just my opinion, and yeah you probably aren't looking for any right now while you are feeling down, sorry I just hate to see anyone "hurting" while the other person seems so insensitive, I've been there, it is good you weren't married and had her do this to. Don't be taking all the blame either (that's what my past therapist told me with my situation) and he was right.
I hope things start looking up for you soon, you are a nice guy and you know there are some nice gals out there!
Take care Dr. John,
"darkeyes"

I don't know all of the details of your situation, but it is starting to sound like a very familiar story. More times that I can count, I've had two good friends go through one of these "one-sided" breakups, so I've heard both sides of the story over and over again. My guess is, even though she doesn't want to be romantically involved with you, she still has a lot of affection for you, and your shared history gives her a "comfort zone" with you. So, it is in her best interests ti try to keep you around as a friend. Now I may be way off-base with this, butyour description of her behavior is so close to how I've behaved in the past, I have to wonder if her motivations might be the same. She told you that she was having problems with the relationship for a long time, but she stayed with you until she had someone else to go to. That makes me think that she is not very secure about being alone. So, even if it is subconscious, she may feel safer encouraging your affections, so she has you around as a "safety net" while this other relationship is new. So, I guess what I'm saying, in waaaaay too many words, is that I agree with darkeyes...she may not know she's doing it, but there's a good shot she's playing "mind games" to keep you on the hook.

I also think darkeyes' idea to put some distance between you and her is a great one. It may hurt to not see her, but you set yourself up for a lot more hurt if you let her keep you on a string. I sort of think a healthy amount of anger is good for a breakup. My girlfriends and I have a favorite way of dealing with breakup...a good old-fashioned male-bashing session fueled with plenty wine. It may not be realistic, but sheer animosity seems to be less painful than unrequited hope for reconciliation.

Well, i wish I could have given you more encouragement...good luck, and I'll be thinking of you.

*hugs*
mj

Hi mj and darkeyes, thanks for the advice and notes... the things you both describe make sense to me, and on some level, I can't help but wonder if they are what's going on with her. Especially the need for a friend and safety zone while she explores this other relationship and takes it very slowly... I think she still wants all the benefits of having me in her life. The sad truth is that I can't just be that for her right now, if that's all she's doing (subconsciously or not). It's not very fair to myself or my feelings and needs.

The problem is looking out for my feelings and needs! I don't do a very good job at it, because I have competing feelings... On one side I want to do this to help myself to move on. On the other side, I want to stick around and be in her eyes as much as possible because she's a good friend and I still care for her and about her.

Ugh... I think I will do good again if I can just find some clarity in my own mind....

OMG, I really feel what you had to go through. A glimmer of hope, and then its over--again. I think the others are right about her still having some emotional attachment to you, you being a safety-zone. It probably is better for you to end the relationship here. You are a man with a good heart that has been broken. Let things heal. Go out somewhere normal to you, sit down, chat with somebody, make more friends, if even for the day. Talk to the men and women. We are all people eager to find the goodness in others. We'll send out some prayers for you. Hope you have a good day~

This may sound like kind of a mixed message after my last post, but you shouldn't kick yourself if you can't find it in yourself to cut her out of your life. Even though it may save you from some pain down the road, it's very hard to remove yourself from someone that you care about. It's only human to hold out hope that someone you care about will come back to you.

So, don't knock yourself out for being human...you just keep working toward being stronger and stronger without her...and we'll be here whenever you need moral support.

Take care,
mj

I agree that beating the heck out of yourself over this won't do you much good. At least I don't think it will. I'm confused too after reading about your ladyfriends antics. Does she know what she wants, I wonder, and maybe you wonder, too.

I was in the same position years ago, I know I've mentioned it. I could not pull myself away from the man I loved and was "sharing" him (very reluctantly) with another woman! Yes, I felt stupid as can be. Felt used, second best, humiliated horribly. Do you know how it finally ended? Well, he died of a heart attack. To this day I wonder if I would have been able to ignore him or tell him to take a hike if he hadn't died. We had plans of getting back together or so it seemed, too. I just relate to what you are going through and you can see you are not the only one who has felt so stupid.

But of course, you are not stupid! Oh the heart and chemistry of it all are so hard to resist, I still say.

I hope you will find peace in whatever happens.

CQ

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<font color=blue>"All changes, even the most longed for, have their melancholy; for what we leave behind us is a part of ourselves; we must die to one life before we can enter another." Anatole France</font color=blue>

Well, yesterday was especially hard, because she wrote me a letter which confirmed her feelings for this other guy. She had to write, in detail, that she "felt a love that I have never felt before in my entire life." Oh, okay, thanks for that. Whatever. Three or four dates and that's how she feels, what can I do?

So it's way, way, way over. I went to sleep surprisingly well, almost like at peace with the whole thing. Woke up this morning and didn't really feel the anxiety as I had been feeling these past couple of days. I guess just the finality of the end has hit me, and it doesn't feel so bad after all. Weekends are, of course, the hardest (and we're in the middle of a week here), so we'll see. I need to make some sort of plans for Friday night and Saturday, since those are the two toughest for me.

Thanks all for listening... it's nice to have the support.

Alright, Dude! Sounds like a step in the positive direction! Good idea to make weekend plans. Have anything in mind yet?

what people A L W A Y S tell me . . . is . . .

"do what makes you happy."

You are right, you need to take care of your own needs first.

<font color=purple> But a stranger in a strange land, he is no one:
men know him not and to know not is to care not for.
Bram Stoker, Dracula, 1897 </font color=purple>

i'm going to see a play called shear madness or something like that this weekend . . . maybe you should go see a comedy play?

<font color=purple> But a stranger in a strange land, he is no one:
men know him not and to know not is to care not for.
Bram Stoker, Dracula, 1897 </font color=purple>

Well, as we go into the 4th week since the breakup, I have my good days and my bad days. Friday and Saturday were good days, Sunday was half and half. I waver back and forth between putting her out of my mind for a long time, and memories and dreams that continue to interfere with and invade my mind. It's maddening how unpredictable it all can be, how you don't know what will set off the feelings of sadness and anger.

There's still a lot of anger there, for the way it happened, how it happened so quickly... And over a longer-term view, how, if she felt like she didn't really love me a year ago, why in the hell did she stay with me for all that time.

Word to the wise: If you don't love someone or feel the same way about them as they do about you, don't fake it. Don't keep trying to feel something. You can't make yourself feel. Follow your instinct, your gut reaction, no matter how much the other person begs and pleads.

I did, I asked that she stick around, and she did, so when I'm doling out the blame for all of this, I have to take a hefty portion. But trust me, it would've been far easier to have taken all of this a year ago than it does now. No matter how much you believe you are helping the other person by hanging on to something you don't believe in, just don't do it. That's one of the things that is hurting the most right now, just this feeling like we were living a pretty lie for nearly a year. And I was clueless about how her feelings never changed...

I just assume when people write you beautiful poetry one month saying how they can't wait to have your children and marry, you don't expect to be dumped 3 months later. She did and said so many things which led me to believe her feelings had changed.

Ultimately, the problem was that we didn't communicate around this issue as much as we should have. A lot of our other problems I can now trace back to this core issue -- if one person feels very differently about the other, and those feelings aren't really reciprical, then you get into a lot of issues of contention (where the one person is doing all the work, trying to make all the compromises, etc.). If we had talked about this issue on a regular basis, checked in around it, it definitely would've helped. Both of us, I believe. But we didn't. We swept it under the rug, and I, being a somewhat clueless man, certainly wasn't going to ask about it, "Hey honey, do you really love me, or do you still feel like something is missing?" Who wants to have that conversation?

Nobody, that's who. So if I try and be fair, I can see why we didn't talk about it. But it is so hard to be fair right now. That's the problem.

I'm getting there, but I'm not real sure why I'm performing an autopsy of the relationship... Maybe it's a part of the healing I need to do.

Hi Doc: I was interested in your comment about performing an autopsy on your relationship.

I did that in my first marriage and do it every day in this one.

I think it's because we need to know where things went wrong, where the true blame lies, and who is really responsible for what. It's confusing because after a break up our minds aren't working properly anyway. Maybe we just want to find a way to refrain from making the same mistakes, choose the wrong people. Who knows??

Keep your chin up, keep analyzing everything if you need to, and stay busy.

WIL

You are doing the healing very well. It's true that people shouldn't wait so long and hide their feelings. I hate to say it, but my relationship officially "died"(for lack of words?!) in January 2000. Things had already been rather shaky for us by then, but after that day my emotions had been completely severed. I lived for almost two years living a lie that we were a partially-happy couple, but with a history of some problems. Our child's psychologist could see that I was struggling with our issues and I finally confessed to him what happened that one day and that I had in sense "built a wall" in our relationship. Eventually one thing led to another and we are now getting divorced. I still feel some attachment to him. After all, after spending so much time and personal moments with someone its hard not to care. I love him as a friend and hate him as a husband. What you say is true. It sounds like you are moving on. I'm glad to hear that you had such a great time for a while this weekend! My weekend could have been a little better, but I'll put that in a separate post.