Doesn't know what he feels

I just met a guy over the internet (on a dating website). I liked his add, it was very short suggesting he was looking (after all you have to pay to be on the website) but not desperately. He wrote he was on the website "just in case". In retrospect it doesn't sound like someone who is really ready but when love comes along you never are after all.
I corresponded and he sounded like a very sweet person. He was very interested in my life, but was claming up himself. I thought it was ok on the internet. He always wanted to know whith whom I was talking etc..., he sent me family pictures (himself as a child, with his sisters)...
He is a bit younger (8 years, Iam 35), but it didn't seem to bother him at all. We had a lot of common points.
Then he wanted to meet me. Why not ? We liked each other immediately. He actually stayed at my hotel for 2 nights. I thought waow! a bit fast! he seemed to really like me. Then he went a on a distance, which was a normal since everything went a bit fast. But then I started complaining because I saw no point in staying any longer in this city if I wasn't going to see him. Then he stayed over 2 more nights. He told me his father had died 8 years ago then his mum and sister had a cancer and that he had no real relationship since then. No wonder he clammed up. I decided to be patient but then he became distant again. I was surprised since the time we spent together was great. We are both very romantic. He said he wasn't sure about his feelings for me and that he had never loved anybody. I was devastated of course but what choice did I have ? But then he wanted to talk to me on the phone for hours and he said we had to meet again. I reluctantly agreed. He told me he was scared to suffer I told him that he couldn't live in a cage and tried to reassure him. It seemed to work and I thought it was OK. I went back home (he told me later he wanted to give it a try. But to see if he would love me ? or to see if the fear would go away, that I don't know)
He even decided to come to my region (250 miles away, I am planning to move soon). He wrote everyday saying how exited he was. His e-mails were so sweet, but of course I was still worried, expecting him to cancel everything, but he went to buy the tickets days in advance, all exited about it. He said that he had never been so close to anybody and that now he was coming out of his shell. I was still worried so I asked him for the first time if he loved me. He said yes, he did and tried to reassure me every day when we were talking over MSN, skype, the phone.
On his way to me, he sent me several sms saying he was getting closer. He seemed thrilled to see me but during those 4 days he spent at my appartment, I felt something was wrong. He was so sweet but he asked about what we were planning over the week-end like he was on a sight seeing trip. The first day he said he had to get an appartment very soon so I could stay with him anytime, but over the next days he didn't talk about when we were going to see each other again. Once he was back home the questions bagan again. He was confused, said he wasn't ready but at the same time he doesn't want to brake up. Every question I ask he answers "I don't know. I really don't know" and he seems very upset about it. Wht-y is he so upset. Now he says he doesn't know if he loves me/loves me enough. Then he says he loves me, then that he has feelings, then affection, then love again, then a different kind of love, then love again. He wants to talk to me, but then again not. At noon I get a very sweet e-mail, very affectionate, in the evening he is distant again. He who never talks about anything even with his best friend, talked to him about me. His friend was stunned! Yesterday he talked to him about me for the second time.
He told me "why do you both know what to do and I don't?", "why so many questions if I love you? but why am I so upset, doesn't it mean that I really care?"
He told me 2 days ago over the phone that he was scared to death, that he thought he couldn't give me a perfect relationship that woud never break. I told him that he wasn't Superman and that a relationship was a 2 people thing. But yesterday he just kept repeating "I am not ready and I don't want to hurt you. If we go on and I break up in 2 months you will suffer even more etc..." The reason seems to change with every phone call. I do believe he is scared to death to lose me like he lost his father but maybe at the same time he doesn"t love me enough. I am lost now too.
He left his DVD here, saying that I could give them to him later so he did have the intention to see me again.
I said I couldn't talk to him over the phone anymore since it didn't help. He reluctantly agreed. I offered to see him in person. He didn't want to first, saying he was afraid he would just tell me it wasn'tg possible between us and that he was scared of the answer but then he said he wanted an answer and that he wanted to see me and that we would talk all night if necessary (he works the next day) and that he wanted to find an appartment because it would be better. I said "Yea for your work, you're right", he answered "no not only for the work"(meaning for me to stay over since I don't have an appartment yet).
We won't communicate over the week-end. I think it is better, but I really don't know how to behave. Reassure him ? or scare him with the perspective of losing me ? I am afraid to find out that it is just about not wanting to be the bad guy and that he might want to give it a try to convince himself that he loves me. I really don't know anymore. He sounded so convinced when he said he loved me, but he really doesn't know anymore now. Has anybody a suggestion ? If there is a chance, I don't want to throw it away. This guy is awesome, so sweet, thoughtfull, sensitive, selfless (too selfless sometimes).

Hi icetea,
Well it seems he does have some unresolved issues, and unless he works through them I don’t think he is ready for a relationship yet. Also, i don’t think that either reassuring him or scaring him would be the solution as the cause seems to be in him. He needs to be sure of what it is he wants deep down and what he is afraid of etc. Otherwise, no amount of external reassurance would ‘compensate’. From what you wrote, he doesn’t seem sure himself on this point. Again from what you are saying, it appears that if things continue as they stand, you might get (even more) hurt seeing he is constantly vacillating and is so unsure of his emotions. There's just too much baggage atm...

Thanks. My best friend went through a similar scene but so far they worked it out, so I am optimistic. He just wrote me that he is trying very hard to find the answers. I think that is a good point. But maybe I am too optimistic.
I can he resolve his father's death ? That he withdrew seems normal, but he seems to be opening up (see the talk with his friend). Doesn't it suggest he is ready to move on ? I don't know.

You are right, it seems he is trying and it is good of you not to want to let him go, and stay by him. It just seems you, at the moment, are having a rough tide...

How about seeing someone (professional/couples therapy maybe) either him or the both of you? Do you think that might be an option?

How long have you been together? Is this a very new relationship?

Hi, Icetea...
This relationship is causing you a lot of insecurity....How much do you actually know about this man? You would be wise to be wary....Let HIM do some of the work! Let HIM tell you he wants you and loves you, and don't let yourself suffer with his ambivalence. Have you read the book, HE'S JUST NOT THAT INTO YOU? I know this book has many flaws, but one of the things it says is that "a man will move heaven and earth to be with a woman he desires." I truly beilieve that, and waffling around, giving you grief is not a good sign.
Patty

Thanks for your help! Yes, it is definitely up to him to do something. Of course I am wondering if he is really into me or not. It is a new relationship even though we share a lot (he has told me so many intimate details about himself and I about myself). When he said he loved me, he sounded so sincere and he said he did believe it but that he doesn't know for sure anymore.
I just broke up with him yesterday. It is weird. I don't seem to feel anything. My best friend said it is because I don't believe it is over. I think it is true.
I asked him yesterday if he wanted to end it all, he didn't answer but added that the fact that he didn't want to see me over the week-end (we did see each other) probably meant he didn't love me (don't you know it when you don't love somebody ???), so I said I would do him the favor and let him go.
He said ok but he looked devastated, especially when I gave him back the birthday present he gave me a few days before. He was so sweet when we parted, even though it was what he wanted.
This morning I sent a collective mail. I suppose I wanted to hurt him on an unconscious level: saying, you know, now you are just one amongst others.
He answered within 5 min. He seemed really angry. His mail was short and cold, which probably means it gets to him more than I expected.
I sent an e-mail to apologize (it wasn't ok), but stating again that things were probably for the best now. He has sent a kind answer, wishing me well, apologizing blah, blah, blah.
Si I guess I was wrong and he didn't love me after all. Just how can somebody be so convincing ? When I was with a guy I didn't love, I was never that convincing, never, even before I realized I didn't love him. He even told me when he fell in love with me 3 weeks ago. How can that be ? Is it easy to fake or what ?
This time I really thought, it was my lucky day. I finally got it right. Did I scare
him ? How can a love story start so well and end so quickly. The first 3 days were just so perfect. We were making plans for the future. He seemed so happy to think of the future with me. Where has it all gone? Can you really change your mind so quickly ? I am lost. I don't understand anything anymore. This time my instinct was telling me it was going to be fine. Funny.

Move on sweetie. When you truly fall in love, and visa versa, there is a feeling of coming home. You two sound like you are on totally different tracks. I used to think that the guy I would fall in love with would have all those special qualities. (sweet, generous, etc) but I fell in love with someone I couldn't imagine I would fall in love with. He is sweet, generous etc, but infront of that is loud, proud and rambuncious. The point is, you never know who he will be, but when he arrives, you will know. It is soothing not confusing

Yes, but I know it is him. And he used to know it too. He called our encounter "destiny". His words.

Do you think he is involved with another woman? Sounds like something like that to me, or he's just a waffling cad. At any rate, Icetea, he is giving you grief, and you'd be better off to let it go...NO contact, and move on with the work of recovering. I've been in your shoes, believe me, and if you feel as you say you do, it takes TIME! Be kind to yourself and don't let this man mess with your mind.
Patty

IcedTea, I'd leave well enough alone. It's too up and down, and this is just the beginning of something. Many men, and women for that matter say it's destiny. Doesn't always mean it's meant. He says a lot of things, but can't seem to back them...he loves you one minute, not the next, then not sure, then he does and so on. Way tooooooooo much work for just coming out of the gate so to say.

I too, cannot help but wonder if there is another woman in the picture, like a wife, or girlfriend, that he is struggling between. Whatever the case, this relationship is unstable to say the least.

Someone can be very convincing when you want to hear it and believe it. Someone that truly loves you isn't a yo yo...they have more of a tendency to be steady...not so back and forth.

I'd walk away for good here, he's got too much baggage or what not, and if you tie all your time up trying to fix him, you could be seriously missing out on the one you are "destined" to be with.

hugs, Lisa

I am wondering about another woman too now. Not a wife. He is 27 and not very mature.
He lives in the house of his mother but is moving to a small appartment next week. He wanted me to come over.
But I can't help wonder if there is no girlfriend. He said he had female friends and said that he tried once to hit on one of them, but that they remained friends and haven't seen each other since.
Of course I still feel unconvinced. Last sunday he got a sms from a female friend. he read it to me, including the smiley. When I was pissed off, he said that there was nothing between them, that he was a honest person and that he would never lie to me blah, blah
When we met he said he had an affair 2 months ago and nothing else since (only one 2 year relationship years ago). He had a condom in his wallet. That's not something you do if you are involved with someone unless you are a total jerk.
He spent most week-ends with me and all evenings after work on MSN or hours on the phone. When could he meet that woman ?
But still something is fishy. But I need to find out to move on. It gets to me.
He called me "Sophie" at one point (that's not MY name) but I must admit I called him by another name once too, because his behavior reminded me of an ex-boyfriend. I must also admit that I showed him sms by other male friends to reassure him (no secrets...) but it may have had the opposite effect. I don't know. I just sent him an e-mail and asked directly. What good is speculation in these matters ? Right ?

Weird: he just answered my e-mail saying : "No, no there is no other woman. How could you ever believe this...? I am not a jerk (at least I hope). I would never do this to anybody. I hope you are better. You deserve to be happy....". On the one hand sounds like he wants to move on, on the other hand it sounds like he can't.
He blocked me on MSN. First I was angry since I never contacted him first, so he knows there is no risk of an unwanted contact (I have his 2 phone numbers, so it is silly anyway). Knowing him I think I understand now. He can't stand seing me online and not writing me. Last week we tried to break up (well, he did) but after seing me online, he couldn't help but write. Over the last week-end, we weren't supposed to communicate. Result : he called me after 1 day.
But things were stuck since he never took the time to think about everything. Fear is clouding his judgment. What can I do.
I mean of course I won't try to get him back. It has to be his decision. But for him to find out what he wants, would it be better to leave him alone or to keep in touch from a distance ? After all, he blocked me on MSN but answered my e-mail (very contradictory).
I am not sure he is very good at thinking alone efficiently, and I am afraid he might retreat again in his "protective bubble" as he calls it.
A psychologist told me, this fear might either help us build a very strong relationship or be very destructive.
I agree. I don't want to give it up now, but what would be the best behavior with this particular type of individual ? He said a short while ago, he needed time. Than that he didn't want me to waste my time (as if he knew that he didn't want me, but then he suddenly really wanted to give it a try).
that's ok but as I said I am afraid he might hide again. Any experience with young, unmarried guys with not much experience and a lot of fears ? Thanks!

I think you're giving him too much credit and leeway here. I agree with another poster that you need to move on. I've been in this situation myself, and it took me a year to recover. I loved but he did NOT!
Just the fact that he had blocked your emails is a big red flag, hun! You should be insensed!
I'm betting you are lovely and can have your pick of fellas.
Patty

He hasn't blocked my e-mails. In fact he is answering them. He blocked me on MSN, because he is trying to get over me (when I returned a birthday gift he was shocked, refused to take it but then said reluctantly it would be better that way").
He learned yesterday that I had some health problems. He wrote an e-mail instantly. Not getting an answer he sent me a sms which I answered. He sent me a e-mail this morning asking for more details and telling me about his coming week-end.

I agree with being cautious but why is everybody saying I should forget him and that he doesn't love me ? How do you know for sure? I don't. He doesn't. I am not going to forget it now (next week maybe if things don't move). I was asking for suggestions about the best behavior to find out if he loves me or not. Keeping in touch or stopping any contact. He is the kind of guy to retreat in his shell.

i would be telling you to move on because it was too quick. i would be telling you to move on because i think he's a liar.

you can't save the world and you sure can't save a man who "retreats" and then all at once starts showing interest and will probably "disappear" again.

the foundation of love generally starts with friendship. you've got this guy, from the internet, that you don't even know whether or not you should trust.

you've had what the older posters would call a "fling". do you know anything at all about his background? have you met his family? his friends? have you seen where he lives? where he REALLY lives? and how old are you and how old is he? where does his money come from? is he really into you or is it the sex?

hope you're not upset with my answer. but you asked why people were giving you the advice tht you're unhappy with.

personally, i don't have any advice about how to "handle" finding out if he loves you or not. that isn't like pulling a tooth to see if it has decay..........his actions would show that he loves you and so far his actions are extremely weird and a bit sneaky.........

some people are with a man for 30 years and they still don't know if they are loved. is that what you want?

What do you mean "too quick" ? the breakup ? yeah, but we went fast. I have the feeling I lived 3 months in those 3 weeks.
No he is not a liar. thanks for the advice though. I know it is well meant.
About MSN I was wrong. I just found out that he had computer problems. Wasn't his style to do such a thing anyway.

- he is moving to a small appartment, he was taking care of his mum and younger brother before
- I know where he works (he showed me)
- I know what his work is, he showed me (very serious and responsible)
- He showed me pictures of his sisters
- he told me his life story, also very intimate details you don't tell so easily
-he talked to his best friend about me when he doesn't talk about important stuff with other people usually
-he is almost 30 and I am 35 but we look the same age even though that is not very important to me.
- people met on the internet are not necessarly weirder than others (hey, I am sure you are not weird either, even though I would like to know you a little bit better before giving you my PIN number :-) )
-no we didn't have a fling, we were making projects for the future
-he came too my place and met part of my family, they love him and they think he is a sweet guy. they don't understand his fears.

The problem is : right now he is lost (those things happen) and he doesn't know where he stands.
I have decided to keep in touch but I don't want this to settle into a friendship and I am wondering whether he is taking the separation "well" now because we are still in touch, so that he doesn't feel the separation or if he doesn't care that much. Of course, you can't answer this. You're no psychics.
I am wondering if its better to put him at ease and see if he can overcome his fears and see what feelings he has for me : friendship or love
or if it is better to confront him again now.

Everybody said we were a great couple, even if we weren't together long, so it is hard to just walk away. People were smiling at us in restaurants, on the street. I never had that before. waow

Icetea...Fayerody is telling you the truth. We are not beating up on you.
I know about moving too fast and reaping the heartache afterwards.
My advice to you, if you are wise, is to not contact this man on your own. Let HIM do the work and be cool about your responses to him. If he really wants to build a relationship with y ou, he must come forward without ambivalence. If you continue to contact him, accommodate him and make excuses for him, I fear you are in for much heartache.
Patty

Icetea, I see many a red flag going up. Why? Because I was married to man that told me never to expect him to tell me "I love you". He is STILL pulling his "come hither, GO AWAY, GO AWAY" games thirty years later.

I was totally devoted to this man and deeply in love with him... till just about a year ago. He did the same things that this friend of yours does until it finally destroyed all my love, my devotion and even my LIKE for him!! The man is totally incapable of loving anyone, including himself! Dealing with him has made me completely cynical about love. I don't wish that on anybody including YOU.

Red flags popping up all over the place, Icetea. Please do be careful!

Ok thank you both!
Yes I think you are right. I had a discussion with him yesterday. I told him I wasn't interested in staying friends with him. He got very defensive, agressive. Well yeah, if he wants something from me, he has to contact me now and he better has something to offer. I am not sure I would take him back even if he went to therapy. Anger and fear made him say really mean things yesterday. I am not sure I can forgive them.

Good for you for breaking it off! But remember, this isn't about YOU. It's about HIS issues. You don't need to feel hurt by what he said if you know it's not true. Just laugh it off and chalk it up to experience. Now you know what to look for in a man and you know to run the other way if the same red flags come up!

Now I'm thinking about the behavior you've described with him from the beginning when he started waffling, and I suspect this man knows he has issues, like anger....perhaps why he has been reluctant to commit to a REAL relationship. As September so wisely said, this is NOT your problem; it's his, and you would be wise to walk, NO, RUN away from this man.
Do not enable him in his unbalanced behavior by making excuses for his fear or anger issues. It's way too early in a relationship for you to be having this kind of grief!
Patty

Yes Patty,

I agree. It is just that somehow he was holding out for me.
I am not his cure, but it is sad to think that maybe if he would seek treatment, things could be fine.
He wants to keep in touch but as "friends" even though he admits it is weird and that you can't replace a feeling by another. So what's the point? He keeps coming back to it.
He seems fed up by my e-mails but he keeps writing.
He says he would understand if I didn't want to keep in touch and he doesn't want to hurt me more (as if pretending to be friends wouldn't hurt!!!). See my point here ?
So maybe I should give him what he wants? Not staying in touch ?
Here is what I understand : I have the feeling he really wants to keep in touch without any pressure to deliver a feeling, at least in the near future. He is scared by the very idea of talking to me directly because he knows that if we do, he will change his mind as in the past and then not be able to "deliver"

He says "if I did love you enough I wouldn't doubt". But when I ask: "So you don't love me enough", he keeps saying the sentence all over again. He doesn't answer. Wouldn't it be easier to say: "Look I don't love you, sorry I don't want to hurt you". Yeah it would, but then I would walk away. wouldn't I ?

Isn't that a kind of manipulation ? It seems to me! Go but stay! Well stay, but don't expect anything.

Now has anybody some experience with type of behavior ? I noticed that when he thought he could get away with his frienship thing, he opened up and showed more feelings. Is it gratitude ? A way to keep me hooked just enough or is it genuine ? No way of knowing from the outside.

I am asking because a friend of mine had a very tortured and lunatic behavior. His girlfriend is a psychologist (good choice!!!) She didn't let it be until she didn't see any other option anymore, but first she tried the friendship thing to see if the lack of pressure could help him overcome his fears. Well in this case, it didn't help. He was plain miserable, but it didn't help. When she let it be, he changed. See why I am hesitating? If a psychologist thinks it might help to wait and see...
But how can I protect myself ? I wonder how she could patiently wait until he was ready. It wasn't a sure thing!!
Should I play along his frienship thing (hey, does this include telling him of the guys I fancy?) to see what happens like she did ? or be uncompromising right away ? I really have no idea.

By the way, a guy told me "I was the worst thing that ever happened to him" because I was really tough on him. Maybe I am looking too much in people's brains and that scares them off. Maybe this guy gets scared by my insisting on discussing the relationship here and now ? When you had bad experiences, you tend to be very direct.
This raises a lot of questions in him but also in me. That's maybe a good point.

I will think about this. thanks for your help. It makes me think clearer about what I want, what I am willing to accept and what not. Not easy!!

There is this little voice inside you saying *whooooaaa, something ain't right here!!" Go with that intuiative voice girl. He is showing you exactly who he is right up front. No matter what his real issue is, he was honest in telling you he cannot commit on a number of different levels. BELIEVE HIM!! Listen to that and your gut....you deserve someone who can commit at some point without game playing.

Yes, he can't commit now. That's a fact. I am just wondering if I should wait a little bit.
Well, dealing with him helps me understanding issues I have.
For example. I noticed that we have a kind of dependance : he is attracted by the fact that he thinks I need to be saved and I am attracted by the Hero syndrom. We found each other! Of course that's not the only thiing. The problem may lie here and I will repeat this behavior with someone else unless I get at the bottom of it here and now and I do believe he can help me do this.
It is painful but maybe necessary ?
The bottom line is our relationship was destructive because we both built on bad ground. He is not the sick one and I am the sound one. That's a fact and I know it.
He is helping me to understand myself and vice-versa.
The more I am reading and thinking about this, the more it makes sense!!!! It is like a jigsaw coming together. I am a bit relieved that I start to understand. I am on the right track here!! Please keep giving me advice. I just read a fairy tale I have written and everything's in there.