Marriage separation after deployment

Good luck!

she may not have been raised in that era but she was sure living a life like she was before everything blew up around her & she realized it didn't work.

However she was living before was her choice. Let's not forget the facts here.

Well last night was a bust. She provoked an arguement and I left.

Unless she gets professional help, she will never change.

This young woman knows good and well that the way she is engaging with Dad is not in good faith and is not honorable. She has a serious character flaw. That, I believe, is why she will have nothing to do with professional counseling. She knows good and well that any objective third party sitting down with Dad and her is going to see through her words and actions and will refuse to endorse her behavior.

Professionals can help us make changes that we sincerely want to make to reach goals we have a right to shoot for. She, basically, wants to make a fool out of her husband . . . as big a fool as she can get away with making him. She knows that's what a therapist will see and call her on. Her goals are not honorable. She knows that. She does not care about being a fair person.

From my point of view, I see her behavior as being thoroughly consistent. She knows exactly what she wants, and she has a well-thought-out strategy to get there. It is diabolical, if you ask me. She wants Dad to be complete putty in her hands. She wants him in her life only so far as she can use him. There is something profoundly wrong with her moral compass. Counseling can't fix that. She more likely needs an exorcist.

Sorry things did not go well last night DadFMF. How about sharing what took place, even though you are feeling defeated right now. When feeling defeated even though you probably tried, while it's hard to talk about it, if you do talk about it, it's an opportunity to "learn". You have shared that you don't know the "language" part and that you tend to communicate more physically. Well, that is what a lot of men actually do where they express themselves in physical ways. And often when a man is angry and frustrated either they take it out physically towards the other person, or they exit and feel confused. What I have noticed about you is that you genuinely don't want to "hurt" anyone, so when you get frustrated you walk away. That's not such a bad thing, you want to care and fix, but you genuinely don't know how.

What I am seeing in your relationship of what you have shared, is that your wife doesn't know "how" either.

Maybe she does have a plan as other posters have suggested. Truth is that it's not unusual for an unhappy person in a relationship to wait things out in a way that sustains them until they find a way to completely walk away.

But, does it really matter? If this is true, so what, because in your situation there are children involved and they need parenting no matter what happens.
Always remember not to see your time with your children as being a babysitter. That can create a resentment that they end up absorbing that is not healthy for them.

In the meantime, what you can still learn is how to develop your ability to better understand the language part so that if this doesn't work out for you and you do end up looking for a healthier relationship, you will have some new skills to work with so you don't end up experiencing this same relationship problem again.

This is true, she will simply develop more toxic ways of manipulating that are hurtful. But, Dad is reaching out for guidance both here and with a therapist, so he has a better chance of learning important things so if he does end up with his marriage ending, he will be able to say he tried, and he will also be able to walk away knowing he is making the right choice. Also, when it comes to finding a new partner in his future he will be able to recognize some red flags so that he doesn't end up in another relationship that is unhealthy.

Oh I know so many who lived that way by choice until REALITY smacked them in the face, then they woke up to the reality being that choice was NOT ok & if there is a feeling that the husband liked it that way & really doesnt TRULY support change other than with meaningless words that have no REAL plan for change behind them....then it becomes a war to really gain the independence they have come to realize is critical to their own future.

Yes, having a man taking care of you looks really great UNTIL something happens that makes it not look great any more.

Her way of going about getting her needs met isn't using good skills but there are times (from personal experience) not knowing skills we use what we feel to drive how we respond to a situation rather than using our wise mind & diplomacy.....but
I'm guessing she's not getting the response she is looking for to give her a warm fuzzy feeling that dad is really willing to work on change. I continually waited to hear that my H finally GOT IT...waited way too long......but sometimes if they think there is hope, there is a lack of action to finally end the marriage especially since it's normal in a divorce with a non working wife that the Ex is required by the divorce to pay for her education anyway, so if dad thinks she is sticking around just for him to pay for her education, it's likely he will be paying anyway.

All I can say is I tried. Did flowers, wrote her a card, tried to spend time with her and I still get provoked. So basically what went down last night is that si put the kids down for bed and we sat in the living room on seperate couches (Always that way). Every time I would look over at her she would say "Stop looking at me". Then she would follow it up with a smart comment. Then we ended up talking about when I was deployed and got some things out that was on my mind. She then sarcastically said "Yeah I ****ed him, it's just sex" and other stupid comments to provoke me. She said he came around, cooked for my family and this and that. She basically said he was there while I was gone and done things I didn't. So having to hear hear all of that was hard and touch. She said she said the stuff about sex was messing around with me but I feel there is truth behind it. Like who would say that to a person they are "Married" too.

Then when I texted her today to revisit the conversation, she said she never said any of that. She doesn't want me to have text proof. So you guys tell me what i should think. I just don't understand why she wants me around. She should have just divorced me and moved on with her life. She is making it more clear that maybe I should follow through with a divorce because I don't think I will ever be loved like a wife should love a husband, which is supposed to be unconditional love. I just don't want to be taken to the bank

At this point her punishment doesn't fit the crime. And she won't even sit near you?

Her behavior doesn't seem to me from what you are saying that she loves you and wants to get her marriage back. At this point when you are trying to find a way to fix your marriage, the actions you have described is that of a woman who still is angry and want's to vent that anger at you. Unless you initiated this conversation that turned into her reacting so negatively.

It's pointless if this is all you experience when you spend time with her. I can see her needing to finally "vent" things out, but, this is a slow torture and unhealthy.

What was she like when the kids were awake?

When the kids where awake we didn't talk hardly we watched tv

Dad, you must be starting to realize that there is something seriously wrong with this young woman. This isn't all about her disappointment in her relationship with you. And I can't believe this all started upon your return from your last deployment. You don't give out much info about where she's coming from in life, and you don't have to. But, within the privacy of your own mind, you need to start doing some mature analysis. You weren't born yesterday. You have to reflect on what you know of your wife's past, her upbringing, her way of relating to family, friends and people in general. You talk like you're clueless. You may not be in the habit of doing much deep thinking. Well, you better start, if you want any future . . . for you . . . and for those kids.

When I said earlier that I think your wife has sociopathic tendencies, I wasn't kidding or exaggerating. There is something really wrong with this gal, and you need to stop living in La La land, believing that, if you just mount a big enough charm offensive, you can go back to something that I don't believe ever existed.

No - this woman is never going to love you as you wish to be loved. I have a hard time believing she can be all that great as a mother either. But she's who you picked out for your children, so they're kind of stuck with her. And maybe she's just fine with them. But that's real unlikely.

I don't think you're very welcoming of my perspective, so maybe I need to bow out of this thread. Asking for feedback is fine, but you need to start doing more of the mental work of figuring out what's going on. And I don't mean: "Did she, or didn't she, screw some other guy?" That's really not half as important as you make it out to be. She probably did. So what? You're just curious. Forget that. Work with what you know. You've known her for over ten years. Ask yourself what kind of a person is she? What's the evidence? You know way more than your telling us. And you don't need to be as dumb and helpless as you're acting.

Stop insisting on this idiotic story about how you married a good woman and, if only you had been a better man, you'ld have some great marriage. You married a mentally disturbed woman for God knows what reason. I'm talking disturbed, as in: capable of some real sick behavior. She coudn't have been that great a prize when you met her. But she was available, and you were lonely. So people hope. Now you know better. So get in touch with reality. You don't sound to me like a bad person. But you seem to choose to just ignore what you'ld rather not think about. If that works for you fine, but it's not working for you.

Maybe, I'm all wrong and you just need to be patient and it'll all work out. Maybe she just needs you to heal her wounded little heart and for you both to get some counseling and all will be well. There's enough posting above offering you that perspective. My perspective, I admit, isn't very supportive of what you hope for. So keep hoping, and see where it gets you.

that would irritate me....it like you are doing superficial crap without addressing the REAL issue....what does she NEED to insure her that you REALLY are supportive of her having her own identity & supporting her successfully getting a career for the needs most women these days realize they need. She should ask you for the proof that she needs that you will be the kind of husband she wants but some women who have not learned to ask for what they need hold onto expectations that if you truly LOVE them you will do it without their asking. Many feel that if they need to ask then its truly NOT coming from the other person & they are only doing it because they asked.

You BOTH have SERIOUS communication issues & you both are dysfunctional when it comes to making a relationship work. It sounds like all you are concerned with your love language & she is withholding it from you....but how about her needs? They aren't about flowers or cards....many women need to have a feel of accomplishment & success just as much as men do & she has been telling you that with her behavior.

I got so angry in my marriage I moved into my own wing of the house the last 13 years I was trapped living there. My issues weren't the same as your by that time in my marriage but they sure were in the beginning & because H was the way he was my anger grew in the marriage & not love. His personality & bull headedness irritated me & my fighting back was to hide out in my career after getting my degree.

It honestly sounds like your personalities are no more functional than the ones in my marriage were. You have your idea of what you expect out of her & I do truly wonder how REALLY supportive of her having independence & not chattering her whole life to you & the kids you really are. Without knowing what is really going on there, I am obviously projecting onto this how I would be feeling in the same position & my anger would be growing along with the belief that you truly don't care or want to support my independence especially since NONE of your conversations even seem to bothering to ask her how you can fulfill those needs for independence (talking about career independence only here) so she can have an identity beside wife & mother. Something most women these days desperately need as bad as men do. Not sure you even grasp that concept honestly.



she might have...Or she might be saying it to hurt you because she might be feeling hurt because you just aren't getting what she is expecting from you to make her feel like if she got together with you that it wouldn't just go back to being the way it was. This frustration only makes anger grow....is very unhealthy & only causes more growing apart...& maybe she is giving up hope on you & the marriage for it ever being what she needs from it.



like someone who is hurt & angry at you for not getting what her REAL need for support is & providing it....& is trying to hurt you as much as she is feeling hurt.

maybe she keeps hoping that sooner or later you will get it & show her that you REALLY DO. Dang, I did a whole 2100 mile trip across the country in my truck with my H in hopes he would finally GET IT before I realized it was NEVER going to happen & finally ended the marriage even though still a separation due to financial issues until I get the money to finalize what I started.

you are the only one who can determine that. If your unconditional love means you want your marriage back the way you had it before your wife realized she needed her identity to not just be wife & mother.....they you are right....go for it & it will just prove to her that she was right about you not being willing to provide her with she support she has been wishing you were willing to provide.

In reality it will just prove that NEITHER OF YOU are mature enough to really work through differences & come to a working solution. Got news for you, if you ever do want to get married again, you better sort through this within yourself if you ever want a successful marriage with a modern day woman because there are very few if any who will ever be satisfied with a life like that. Fidelity in marriage is critical....so is each person keeping their own identity while working in a PARTNERSHIP. Most women these days don't find their identity in being just a wife & mother.

she has a right to be compensated for the time she was working as wife & mother which translated usually into money for education & assets depending on the state are either divided equitably which could give her more with child support or the state is 50/50 & add to that the cost for lawyer & court costs for at least the judge to finalize it. Costs are more when there are agreement problems....divorce usually leave both feeling like being taken to the bank....just the price paid in divorce.

Sorry I don't believe there is sociopathic behavior coming from her. I see a frustrated person whose frustration has grown into anger for not getting what she is wanting out of the marriage. I see her anger as coming out in ways of getting even for your hurting her then not really getting her need for independence supported. Anger grows the longer the frustration continues & anger grows into rage....don't see her at that point yet. I know I got to that point before I could finally leave. I was actually seeing red every time I had anything to do with my H...not where your wife is at yet & no point in ever letting itngetntonthat point either.....but I know many women who turn to fight & hurt mode when they feel hurt by their marriage partner. There are usually 2 types of women....those that go silent & say nothing & finally just leave or those of us who fight when we feel wronged....your wife sounds like that is the type of person she may be. Not willing to accept feeling hurt without returning the hurt to the person that they feel is hurting them. There are many of us women who are not willing to take being hurt quietly or even diplomatically. Many end up striking back almost like self defence because it feels exactly what we are having to do.

Wow,just wanted to note a case or two of major projection going on in this thread...

I implore members to take a step back and remember this thread is about Dad, and his bad experience. End of.

If its triggering for you to think of your previous or current bad marriages, maybe it wise to unsubscribe, as you wont be doing yourself, or the OP any favours.

Actually, eskielover has some good points. And while it may be difficult to digest, it's actually worth considering and taking a step back to do so.

I got to wondering if when your wife caught you interacting with this other woman on the net if she got to read some of it. You were giving that other woman something your wife wanted from you, "not flowers, not the "just sex", but something you had not been giving your wife. And then what did you do to "FIX" the problem? A card, a I am sorry, and flowers and then everything should be ok and we can do the physical that you know, the SEX.

I ask you to share what conversation "did" take place so I can at least hear her input and think about what she is focusing on. When the conversation turned to this other guy, what did she say? She talked about how he came over and made dinner for them and she was alluding to his participation and my guess is he probably ALSO engaged her and genuinely showed interest in "her". Interesting how she said, "Did I F him? that's just SEX". Yet, she may not have even engaged in that with this man too. It's the way she talked about it like "the sex is just something physical, not important, this guy did something better FOR me".

I have, over the years heard different women talk about how, "he just brings me flowers and a card like a payment that means it's ok to do the sex now", and he doesn't EVER get it that I want more than just some flowers you can go out and buy.

Some men think that if they did not actually have sex with another woman, it's not that bad. But actually, that may not be the true offense at all. If anything it can be how the man gets caught giving another woman the very thing he fails to provide for his wife, "attention in the way he starves his wife of providing her" and often the flowers and the card handed to her can add to the anger and resentment.

What's behind living in separate rooms, or separate wings, or separate apartments. How a woman can whisper, "if only he would just throw me a bone". Hint, it's not flowers and a card signed "love Dad or Joe or whomever".

When you visit her, she distances and sits on the other couch even. You said, "I don't know the language, I am just a physical", YES, that's a big part of the problem. YET, what did you do with this other woman she caught you texting with? No sex there right?
Oh, that would have been cheating too much right? YET, your wife just gave you a huge clue, "Yes I F'd him but that's just SEX". "Is that all you want to know or care about"?

I am not trying to hurt you Dad, I think you genuinely don't know what is really being said or pointed out to you. A lot of men don't get this, so you are not alone with this challenge.

Yet, I don't want to say that your wife isn't to blame either because she fails too in the communication department.

That's what I was also talking about in describing how my mother was actually jealous of the little West Highland Terrier they had where my father would pick it up, rub it and cuddle it and love it and talk to it in a way he failed to do with my mother. That's not SEX either.

It all boils down to this.....What's the final outcome?

First of all, I want to thank you for your service to our country! And second, if your marriage isn't over, it should be and You should be the one who calls the shots. It's not like you went out to the store and didn't come home for months. If she don't stand by you and support you like you have done for not only her, but your country then I'd say that you deserve better than that! I'm sorry if that sounds blunt, but anyone who's willing to put their life on the line DESERVES respect and loyalty, from both your country and your spouse. This is more my personal bias than it is advice. I know that the situation is more complicated for you though due to your feelings for her and your family and I'm sorry that you're going through all of this!

The outcome is dim when a couple is broken and neither one knows what to do to fix it. This is something that has been brewing for a long time too.

If it's been brewing for a long time, why wasn't Inserved with papers? What's the point in treating me like crap? What's that going to solve? We either try to work past it or we don't. There is no Inbetween. We are both adults

Your wife is treating you like she doesn't love you and doesn't plan on spending her future with you. The question is: why would she do that? Maybe it's because she doesn't love you and doesn't plan on spending her future with you.

She's got her own apartment, and she sees who she wants when she wants. So - right now - how would serving you with divorce papers get her anything she doesn't already have? She can get around to the paperwork whenever. There's no rush, from her point of view. I know a couple who split up and didn't get around to actually divorcing for years. Five years after they stopped living with each other they had new partners and still hadn't gone to court. (They had no children and no common assets of any size.) Each was seeming to wait for the other to start the formal process. It didn't seem to really matter. Each was off doing their own thing. You contribute to the support of your wife and children. If she's satisfied with what she's getting, she sees no need to change anything. Plus, as has been pointed out to you above, leaving things as they are has advantages for her. You hang around and you can come in handy when she needs you. She may even get a kick out of you not feeling you can start dating other women.

You're not really listening to the possible explanations that have been laid out. You just keep asking the same questions. Leaving you hanging not knowing what the future may hold might be a simple case of her being a byeetch. That's pretty much what she sounds like to me.

Are you willing to even consider the possibility that in taking her for a wife, you may just have made a huge mistake? That is hard to face when two kids came out of this union. So keep not facing it, if that's what you prefer to do.

Give some thought to what happened in her last marriage . . . to the extent that you may know, if you know. Was the last guy another lousy husband who wounded her poor little heart and wouldn't let her be her own person and stifled her independence? She doesn't strike me as a woman who's easy to push around. She sounds very assertive to me. She's got you dancing on a string. She may figure, "Why not just keep you doing that?" She may be just waiting to see when you'll finally blow up. Maybe it gratifies her ego to have you hanging around wanting her, especially if her other relationship fell apart.

Honestly....as broken as BOTH of you are in understanding & TRULY being capable of working & understanding & communicating with each other to REALLY EXPRESS each ones needs & laying both sides out on the table & doing the things it really takes to make a marriage relationship work as a partnership....I would write it off.

She keeps trying to hint at what she needs(hinting is the wrong way for her to express what she wants), you seem incapable of getting what she is hinting at because hinting is a skill that doesn't work.... & she is unwilling to go back to the previous way the marriage was (which seems to be the only thing you REALLY want thinking that is what unconditional love is all about...NOT).

Two people totally incapable of negotiating or bring problem solving skills to the table fails in marriage as much as it fails in business.....& yes, when a marriage gets to this point, solving its problems has NOTHING TO DO WITH LOVE....& has EVERYTHING to do with communication, understanding each others points of view & resolving & negotiating the problems that exist.

When a marriage gets to this point & both parties are not capable of the communication needed to resolve those problems....might as well right it off.

I would suggest that BOTH learn REAL PROBLEM SOLVING SKILLS before ever getting into another relationship.

Flowers & a card are NOT problem solving skills. Might have worked in the dark ages but we aren't living in the dark ages any more.

it's obvious that you either don't read or don't comprehend the things that have been said here or you could have many ideas that could possibly answer these questions. If this has been the way you listen in your marriage to what your wife does communicate to you (beyond just the hinting & cryptic comments), it's obvious why your wife is reacting to you the way she is, keeping her distance....maybe she WAS hoping that some day you would get it before finally realizing you NEVER WILL & finally writing off the marriage herself.

Some women don't like to let go of the current husband, until they've got a replacement all lined up and ready to move in. (For economic reasons, among others.) She's got no one waiting in the wings yet, but I believe she's man-shopping. With the pressures of school, her time and energy to do that are limited. (Maybe she thought that married guy she was seeing was going to leave his wife for her, and he didn't come through.) She may be waiting to see who she meets on the job, when she finishes nursing school. She may have fantasies of hooking herself a doctor, or even just another nurse. Men in nursing tend to make even more money than women. And they'ld have a lot to talk about. I get the sense that she is somewhat ambitious and doesn't want to "settle."

I think the card and flowers were a reasonable gesture toward conciliation. You have to start somewhere. It was a self-humbling gesture. She rejects every effort made toward reconciliation. I don't see where she is "hinting" at anything, other than that she will not accept any constraints whatsoever on her liberties. That's not a position you can negotiate with. She's pretty much saying, "I am now a free agent. Take it or leave it. Do what you will, but I'm not going to be subject to any of the normal restrictions a married person normally abides by. I gave you ten years. I'm done." All these posts above about how she just doesn't want to go back to the awful conditions that were imposed on her over those ten years assumes a lot. What awful conditions? I don't know that those ten years were her living under the domineering rule of a controling man with a Neanderthal mindset who kept her living like people did in the dark ages. Where's the evidence for any of that? As was said above, people are just projecting their own issues into this relationship, making all manner of assumptions that this woman was a victim of some sort of psychological abuse and just couldn't get her rightful needs met. She may just have decided that she's bored and does not feel attracted to her husband anymore. That may be something that simply is not subject to change.

We do not hear from her. That is where any such evidence would come from.

I was a puzzled about the flowers, actually. Long ago in this thread Dad said that she told him that she did not like or want flowers from him.

Still, I agree that she shows little interest in reconciling. I wonder what people here who more or less trust her think that Dad should be doing differently.