What do I do when boyfriend and I can't agree on having kids.

I wouldn’t mind waiting but at the same time we’ve been going back and forth on this for a year and haven’t come to any conclusion so It really does feel like limbo right now. Yes I’m not ready to make this decision but I’m not sure what could possibly happen to make me feel really sure. I don’t think that is something that happens overnight.

Yes I know I do want kids but I am not sure if I am okay with not having them. I’m weighing my reasons for wanting kids and if it is realistic to have them or if it will make me happy if I didn’t have them. But I think if I was with someone who wants kids then yes I would have them (several years down the line that is).

I agree it’s frusterating To have a deadline on something I’m not ready for but he’s 100% sure he doesn’t want them and if I have that internal instinct to have them I’m pretty sure that won’t ever fully go away?

Why do yoh want to be with a guy who puts yiu through this kind of turmoil? It's about having kids today what will yiu differ on in the futurd that he does thevsame thing to you about.

What would happen if you did choose no kids, got married then accidentally got pregnant like I did...Birth control is not a guarantee to NOT getting pregnant. What kind of oressure would he out on you then?

It is much easier getting out of a relationship now than it is after marriage & a kid. At least now you are young with no kids & have a chance to find someone with your same values & desire for family & can be really on the same page if life with you. Just because yoh have a hard time meeting & connecting with people doesn't mean yku have to FORCE yiurself to just settle or be forced to choose what yiu don't really want in life when you aren't ready ti make that decision.

For either of yih to assume tbat the other will change their minds or feelings is just WRONG. As I said, I lsid out what I wanted before the weddkng in hopes he wiukd run the other way. When I finally left 33 years later & asked him why he had agreed with me, he said he was sure I would change my mind about not wanting kids after I got married to him. Actually after I did get married & knew him better....I wanted kids with him even less than I had before I got married. You may decide in yiyr mind thst yiu are ok without having kids but yiyr heart may never change & it could be a long term wedge in yiyr ever realky being hapoy in a marriage to this guy....especially since ut us ibvious he tryes to pressure yih into decisions you are NOT ready to make.

Maybe he is the one wanting out of the relationship like I was & is hoping yiu will make the choice that will end it so he doesn't have to take the responsibiluty for ending it himself? I was seriousky hoping that my definiteky not wabting kids would make my fiancee call iff the weddjng because I really didn't understsnd the depth of the issues I actually had with him & getting the wedding stopped for that wiuld hsve been the easiest for me since it was a k iwn & understood difference. Relationships are complicated at best.

Like I said before, IF he truly loved you, he wouldn't have put you through this turmoil.

When is his deadline for you to make this permanent decision?

I loved my ex, at least I did until he told me he lied about being okay with not having kids. Just because he wants to know where she stands as far as having children, it doesn't mean that he doesn't love her, in my opinion anyways. It makes sense that he would want to know if they are on the same page or not as far as a big life decision. You can love someone, but that isn't enough if there is a fundamental incompatibility that makes it hard to be together long-term.

I read research that women are more likely to initiate break up and divorce. And actually my own experience and most people I know it’s the case. Some (not all of course) men don’t like to end relationships but they create situations when women have no option but leave.

One method is to give ultimatum: you do XYZ (something man knows she wouldn’t do) or we have to break up, so women usually leave.

Second method is to make relationship so stressful that woman gets literally sick mentally and physically so it gets unbearable so she ends up leaving.

It sounds that this guy uses both methods and in fact he already says he wants to break up. I think holding on to him is not wise at this point. It’s only going to get worse

I also have to say that people don’t suffer and feel sick throwing up in a happy relationship. Feeling sick is usually a sign.

I know a lot of you on here seem to think there’s some alterior motive at play and my boyfriend wants to break up with me but is too afraid to do it but I know for sure that this is not the case.

The day before I posted this forum he asked me to marry him. He said he was 100% sure he wanted to spend the rest of his life with me and we had already been making future plans. I didn’t expect the proposal and I could not say yes and that threw him off and brought up some very serious conversations about kids, which was the reason why I’m not sure about us. Once he realized how much I truly want kids and how much he truly does not he started talking about a break up. He knows he doesn’t want kids and has never wanted kids. He knows I do want kids and beleives that desire will never go away. He beleives it is selfish to ask me to give that up just for him and will lead to resentment in the future. He does have a point since I literally told him “I don’t think the feeling of wanting kids will ever go away”.

I am not sure why everyone on here seems to think that him not wanting kids and not being willing to bring an unwanted child into this world just to keep me is some testament to how much he does or does not love me. Not sure why everyone seems to expect him to change that but is appalled if I were to ever not have kids for him. I myself know that I don’t love him any less just because we want different things and may have to part ways.

I’m not nieve, i know that if you and your partner want different lives it’s hard to have a life together. I’m not physically ill because my relationship is horrible, as some of you seem to think. I’m Sick because I’m in between a rock and a hard place and about to lose the person I love. I’m ill because I don’t want to lose him. He’s having panick attacks for the same reason. Heartbreak is painful.

I don't see it as him looking for an excuse to break up, I don't see where that comes from. But then, I was in a similar situation to yours, although on the other side. I know how complicated it can be.

Thanks for the post. Interesting perspective and it does give me hope it could work out one day. However, isn’t it best to stay with someone without trying to change them? You’re right I’ve always been conditioned to accept what people tell me and not attempt to change their minds but isn’t it best to not hope he will change his mind one day if I just do or say the right things? That sounds like it could lead to resentment if he does not change his mind. He literally said “don’t expect me to change my mind, I am very clear on this”.

This part you said:

Option #3 seems unattainable because you're in the habit of assuming that people know what they want, mean what they say and can't possibly be talked into a different way of looking at things. Your mom and sis have you well-trained. You are trained to think: "I must conform to what is wanted of me by someone else." and - because you respect the rights of others - "I must not jeopardize another person living out their dream."

Is sooo true. I never try to change people’s mind and always respect the dreams of others. I sometimes forget that it is possible to talk someone into doing something or changing their mind but it never feels good because it always seems like if they had to be manipulated into it they never really wanted it to begin with.

You are also right about him being “scared of life” in a way. Before I met him he never even had a girlfriend and assumed he would never get married. Now he’s the one who wants to get married. His parents and everyone around him have an unhappy marriage so he has assumed it won’t ever work. Being with me changed that. Every time we bring up kids he thinks of worse case scenarios- “what if I lose you, what if the child has a major disability or illness, what if they get cancer, how can we afford it, who will take care of them while we work, they will disrupt my peace and quiet, what if I pass my bad genes on them” (he has health issues outside of depression that are actually correlated to the depression. Meaning he started getting depressed when he got cancer and other big health complications). In addition to all the things that could go wrong he is just too exhausted around kids. He doesn’t want the lifestyle and doesn’t want to care for them 24/7.

Yes, I do think he would make a good father if he wanted kids. He makes me feel loved, is very responsible, more caring than even I am, ambitious, and the funny part is that kids actually love him! But at the end of the day does any of that matter if he doesn’t want them?

Uncertainty is an uncomfortable place to live in and if neither of us will change our minds is there a point to drag things out? Your last paragraph really hit home for me. He likes everything to be definite and clear and the uncertainty is hard for both of us. But he does have a point. Will time really make this any more clear to me? I know I want kids, he knows he doesnt. Seems pretty clear?

What do you think will make him change his mind to wanting kids? I could try to ease his fear around it but if he doesn’t like the lifestyle that’s something else. He said once he agreed to have them for me he kept thinking deeply about it and realized how unhappy it would make him and unfair it would be to the child who now has a dad that never wanted them. This is what ultimately made him land on not wanting kids. Especially after he started working with kids through both babysitting and as patients and it made him want them less. I do think once they are there he will love them but it’s a gamble to take.

It does seem pretty clear.

I agree that you should not marry someone in the expectation that they will change.

One thing perhaps to consider, though, is that if you break up then he will be faced with the actual choice: have no children and no you, or find it in his heart to have children and also have you. You could perhaps find out whether or not he will change, without having to marry him to find out.

I agree....one should NEVER go into marriage assuming the other person will change or change their mind. My H did that to me & honestly I had issues with him before the marriage & it grew into total lack of respecting him & even hating him after we got married & the fighting grew worse out of the lack of respect I grew to have even more as time passed.

I would strongly advise not going there even though I was on the other side of the fence in not wanting kids.

Bill has a very good point....let him be the one who decides what he wants most in his life since he is the one suggesting a break up...let him have it & see where that goes. Have confidence in your OWN HEART & desire to have kids & don't be pressured to do what ithers want like has been your normal in life. Normals always FEEL the most comfortable decision to make but not necessarily what is really right for you.

Just because there is no other guy in the wings waiting for you that wants kids doesn't mean there won't be someone even more compatible who likes travel & wants a family.

That is terrible advice - basically marry him and then nag him? My ex did the nagging thing for some time at the end, it didn't have the desired effect. It just made it easier to recognize that he was never going to take my feelings, which I had made clear many times, seriously.

Rose76, you really seem to have a negative opinion of people that don't want kids (comments like emotionally impoverished life), probably projecting since you are unhappy with not having them. There are plenty of people that don't have children, are happy with that decision and live full lives.

If we do break up I know I will always hope that we will find our way back to each other eventually. Even if it’s a few months or several years I would probably always hold that torch. Which is why this situation is so messed up. sure there are other “fish in the sea” who have the same idea of a future as me but at the end of the day he is the one I love so maybe I won’t fully love the next man knowing I have the “one that got away” out there somewhere.

I hope that if he’s so set on this maybe not having me around will make him realize otherwise. Like maybe some space would give us more clarity into the situation. But in a breakup hope is a dangerous thing. If we broke up it wouldn’t be because either of us didn’t love each other. The love is there. There is just a fundamental incompatibility between us that may never go away. I know love fades over time if we break up but he will always have part of my heart.

I know if we did break up I would move back to my home state. It’s a lot harder to get back together considering that.

Olive, we can love someone even though they choose a different life path than ours where a marriage partnership will not work out. The choice your boyfriend is asking you to make is a hard one considering that you would like to have children at some point and you really can't say wanting children and having a family will change.

Also, you have talked about not being happy with the career choice you have made, well, you are still young enough to make a change with that too as you may need additional education to get where you want to be. You are learning from "doing" right now and even though you have individuals who have strong opinions about what choices you "should" make? You need to learn how to make your "own" choices so you don't look back on your life some day wishing you had made your own choices. After all, it is "your" life.

OR....you MAY find out what REAL LOVE feels like with someone who is really totally compatible with you. You are risk adverse because you have always done what everyone else tells you to do or manipulates you to do. Time to find some self-confidence & go for WHAT YOU WANT in life. There is a risk in every choice we make.

When I left my H after 33 years of marriage & NEVER having lived on my own at the age of 54....it was a risk that could have not turned out good, but it did & I am so happy NOW that I made that risky choice that also had an effect on the rest if my life. We never KNOW when we make choices how they will turn out byt if we use our wise mind is making the choice we think will be the best....that is a good foundation to base the choice on.

I'm not saying marry him first and then nag him. I'm mainly saying "Do not give in to his demand, and let him figure out what to do next." He's being sly. He's trying to leave the ball in her court, so he can claim she did what she wanted. He is kind of banking on her being too in love to leave. (Which is how she sounds.) She can foil what I see as his game-playing by saying "I'm not giving up my dream of having a child . . . and I have no desire to leave." Let him be the one to walk out the door. (That's what a stand-up guy, sure of his life goals, would have done long before now.) I would advise any woman "Don't stay with a guy, if it seems like you care about his happiness more than he cares about yours."

To your other point: I do wonder about people who don't have what seem like "normal" interests and aspirations. I, personally, don't know any people who are childless, happy about it and living life fully. I have a link below to an article that says that more than half of people who choose not to have children end up regretting it.

Desire for Children Still Norm in U.S.

Theoretically, childlessness seems like it should be a viable option. And I totally endorse that people should do what they want, as I did. But I am suspicious of men who want wives, but want these wives to remain permanently childless. I am very suspicious of men like that. They do make a negative impression on me. I would be less unfavorably impressed, if the reluctance were on the part of the woman.

My suspicion is that a healthy, young man who wants a childless marriage is probably immature, or stingy, or stupid or self-centered, or doesn't want to be too tied to a woman he might get tired of. I am very slow to believe that the reasons people give you for why they want or don't want something (of this magnitude in importance) are actually the real reasons. It may be what they believe and want to believe . . . and want others to believe . . . but I say: Look a little deeper.

I also think there is something disingenuous about a guy who induces a woman to fall in love with him, initially saying he's not sure about kids (and might be willing to adopt), and then, after she is deeply invested in him, says he is 100% not interested in having kids. A guy pursuing a doctoral degree is a guy who does a lot of thinking. This guy strikes me as being a bit on the sneaky side.

I agree with rose. Nothing wrong with not wanting children. But to keep telling woman he might want kids or actually wants kids and when she moves out of state to live with him and then ambushes her is a bit strange.

Just a year ago he said he wanted kids and the issue at the time was his anger and bad temper. Now in a year he doesn’t have anger issues (?) but 100% doesn’t want kids. I don’t know if he is sneaky but it would be much more honorable to address it a year ago before olive moved.

I am also a bit unclear why you, olive, were surprised with proposal? So after 4 years together and cohabitation you never expected him to propose? Where did you think this relationship was going when you left your job and state and moved in with him? So the whole thing is confusing. Seems like you or both of you did not think it through

I haven’t read this whole thread, but what would happen if you just got pregnant?

Olive, given your input and how young you were when this relationship began, I doubt your partner manipulated you or planned to deceive you intentionally. From what you have shared about him, he was not a player and was inexperienced with relationships. Also, in the beginning he stated that it was possible to have a child but he was younger and that was not something he had to consider seriously. At the age you two began this relationship, you were both very young yet and a person can grow a lot over four years from the age you both were when you got together. I think he has matured a lot, has been busy learning and growing in respect to his career choice too. I think he has just gotten to a point where he is thinking more about where he sees his life going and he just can't see himself in the role of father and family man and all the responsibilities that comes with that choice. He has probably spent time thinking about his own history, the cancer he battled, the depression he manages and he is trying to be realistic about how he simply doesn't want the responsibility and commitment involved with having a child, after all, it's a major commitment to be responsible for a human being's life and welfare from infant until the child can be an adult and independent.

The two of you started out very young, you both explored living away from home, even moved a distance from home, and you both did some growing and learning "together". You have described him as being thoughtful, well, you are thoughtful and caring too Olive. The both of you in your time together have been learning about what it's like to have a relationship, a relationship outside of whatever you have in your family that you grew up with. If his family was dysfunctional, he probably did not really have much faith in his ability to have a relatively healthy relationship. Well, you have probably given him more support and nurturing than he has had his entire life. You also gave him "love" too, something he probably had not experienced before either. At this point your partner has realized he can have a relationship, he can have a partner while he is learning about also having a career. At this point he has probably decided this is all he wants, all he can see himself doing where he has a partner and a career. He has learned to manage the depression which is connected to "stress, doubt in self worth and fear of losing control". He is a different kind of controlling with you than your father was and is. Your growing up with your strong minded hard working father taught you to bend and your father also provided you with a sense of safety because he was hard working and did "provide" and he also WANTED to have his own family.

You talk about how you did disconnect somewhat from your family and spent time on your own, but the truth is you really haven't spent time truly "on your own and being independent". You are somewhat like a child learning to swim, and you swam away from your family but you are still wearing "floaties" in that you still shared a place to live with someone else instead of actually doing that all on your own. In today's world, that is an important step, important that you learn you CAN do for self and be independent because a lot of women out there have been forced to learn how to do that and at the same time are a single parent. Actually, a lot of women stay in an unhappy marriage simply because the woman is not really prepared to be an independent provider. Actually, more than ever a woman "must" be able to contribute as our current economy is not friendly at all when it comes to a single provider home, even if in a marriage where the husband is the main provider. This is one of the main reasons (at least here in the states) women are fighting so hard for "equal pay" right now.

Truth is Olive, even if he did want children, what if his career did not work out for him, after all he is not actually practicing "yet" and stable in that career choice. What if the cancer came back and he could not work and support a family, where would you be in your ability to step up to the plate and provide "if" you also had a child/children? Even if you did not have a child "yet" and got married to this man, what if he got ill and could not work, could you be the provider and "care" for him and his needs? A marriage is a big commitment too Olive. This is why it's important that you spend time "now" while you are still young enough to really think about your career choice and being happy with that choice and having what you need to have a better career that you actually enjoy doing verses being stuck doing something you hate because you "have to" in order to provide for some reason. Truth is, you are young and you have just been learning how to live on your own "with a partner" in a relationship. Well, right now you have two challenges, your partner telling you he doesn't want children AND you are not happy with the career you are in right now. Seeing where you are now is very important because you actually have some "time" to think about your career choice and in all honesty, this should happen first before "any" commitment that might take from the time you need right now to invest in having a career you are happier in that can also provide for YOU if you need that to happen. Actually, right now, you have been talking about how your relationship is causing you stress, migraine headaches and emotional uncertainty. Well, honestly, YOUR priority right now needs to be in "yourself" so you are better prepared to make "other" important life choices which includes committing to a marriage to someone that doesn't have the same possible life path that you may want and where you are really "too young" yet to make that choice.

I don't think this guy is manipulating you as others are suggesting, he is just trying to be honest about how he really doesn't see himself as a "family" man and yet I do believe he loves you. Well, you talk about investing four years into this relationship. but you also invested that time into your education and a possible career that you are not happy with right now. Investing four years in something should not be a reason to "commit" to a life choice, not at this point in your life, can you see that? So far you have "learned" that you "can" do a relationship, you "can" engage in your education, you "can" work in a career too, but you have to also think about what you "can" do where you will be happier in both these areas. And you are really not ready to commit for "life" and that's PERFECTLY OK. Truth is a person really does a lot of growing and maturing in their twenties. A lot of people make choices and life commitments during this time in their life they end up regretting too. Truth is, you actually have time to focus more on yourself "first" and hold off on making any major commitments. Yes, other people around you in your life have their own ideas about what you should and should not do, but always remember "it's your life" not theirs and you deserve to spend time "learning" about that too for yourself Olive.

He told me he didn’t want children within the first 2 months of dating. It is not as if this was some hidden thing he dropped on me 4 years. He let me know right from the start that he never wanted kids. I fell in love long after I knew he didn’t want kids.

As a millennial this is something I got used to hearing and I felt it was something so far in the future that I couldn’t possibly address at that stage in my life or relationship. I didn’t picture myself as a mother or even think about children as I was a college student. I was barley out of my teen years!

The more we started dating the more we started talking about this and other future planning.

I was someone who always said “yeah, probably someday” about children and pictured many other things in my future before I pictured being a mother and I always said “IF I have kids...” not “when I have kids”. As we got more into it I realized HOW MUCH he didn’t want kids and how much I did. For example my best friend always said she never wanted kids but has moments where she says “maybe someday”. Seeing how much my boyfriend didn’t want them is what actually made me realize that I did want them.

We spent a year of long distance talking about it (I didn’t move right away). He specifically said “before you move here you have to know that I probably don’t want kids”. We explored it more and came to the conclusion that he would consider adopting but only 1 child. He wasn’t happy with the outcome and I still wasn’t happy with this but I moved anyway thinking what many of you on here think: I’m young, I have time to figure this out, I wouldn’t be having kids for many years in the future. I made a very thoughtful decision to move and don’t regret it for a second because I know I would regret not moving.

He spent this past year convincing himself into having kids to stay with me. It was only within the last 2 or 3 months where he realized he really didn’t want them and has come to the conclusion where he just can’t do it. There was never a point where he was happy or excited about the idea. Even when he said he was willing to do it It was always filled with anxiety and unhappiness. The more he got into babysitting and working with kids the more he realized just how much he DIDNT want kids. Agreeing to have kids made him want them less.

So It’s not like he waited till I fell in love to drop the ball. I literally knew from one of our first few dates. You may be forgetting my age in all of this and that over the course of our relationship I have really learned a lot about myself as a person and what I want out of life (and still have a lot of growth to go).

Also you said you don’t understand why a heathy man wouldn’t want kids. He has a lot of health complications and has battled cancer in the past. In the course of our relationship he’s had two tumors and has other health challenges I won’t disclose. This is one reason behind not wanting kids.

Originally Posted by Rose76 I do wonder about people who don't have what seem like "normal" interests and aspirations. I, personally, don't know any people who are childless, happy about it and living life fully. I have a link below to an article that says that more than half of people who choose not to have children end up regretting it.????????.

I know many males & females in healthy happy unions who have chosen to remain childless, and live a very full life not 'in spite' of that fact, but 'because' of it. I am sure there are numerous articles on people who greatly regret becoming parents too.

True. I’ve read many blogs about people who hate being parents, who are miserable, “dread getting out of bed in the morning”, and regret having children.

We never truly know what will make us happy in life and I think that’s what makes decisions so hard for me.

Okay, so he didn't want kids, doesn't want kids and probably won't ever want kids. And he was straight with you all along. Okay, that's where he stands.

You moved in with him, knowing that this might become an issue. Moving in with someone is a huge step. I believe that living with someone on a trial basis is dangerous emotionally. It's like taking a dog home from the animal shelter and thinking, "I'll keep the dog for a while and return it, if I get disappointed in how things turn out." That may, in fact, be necessary, but it's a heartbreaking thing to go through. Now you know. There is no good way forward.

Everything in life has a price. I believe you are in for some serious emotional pain, whether you stay or whether you leave. The moral of this story is: Don't live with a man just to see what it's like, thinking, "Well, I can always leave, if it doesn't work out." Yes, you can . . . but there's a price. Now you know.

I'm not moralizing, and I have nothing against pre-marital sex. But I am very against pre-marital living together. I think it's a foolish thing to get into. Your dilemma illustrates why. Here's another reason why: Suppose he gets in a highway accident tomorrow and wakes up in the hospital emergency room paralyzed from the neck down. Would you feel free to leave him? You could. Even, if you were married you could. But the whole idea of marriage is that two people make a solemn commitment to care for each other, not knowing what the future will bring. To blend your life with another person's life to the extent that you have created a home together makes it very emotionally tough to just "walk." That's how it should be. That's what creates the glue that holds couples and families together and promotes social stability. You and your guy have allowed the glue to form, without having made the commitment to each other. Result: a sticky situation. Everything has a price.

There was a time when social convention and long-established custom prevented young people from getting into this kind of difficulty. That's why those social conventions were invented. Now we have all this marvelous freedom to do what we feel like doing. Freedom isn't free.

There are some wonderful men out there - who want children - who you could fall head-over-heels in love with. But there is no guarantee that you will meet one of them. After 4 years of closeness, it's likely you will carry a torch for this guy, if you leave him. The hope that he would miss you and want you back and agree to fatherhood holds out a possible way forward, but I wouldn't count on it. If you pack up and move across state lines back in with your parents, it's very likely that he will also look at that as a kind of divorce. The bond may be weakened beyond recreating it again.

I believe you that this guy does love you. It's very hard to walk away from a situation where you feel loved, especially when you've never lived alone and don't really relish the prospect of living back with your folks. I also think that you are never going to feel okay with not having a child. If you stay with him and remain childless, you will not find that the rewards of "traveling" compensate all that much. You already don't sound too enthused about how pursuing a "career" has worked out. For most people, their career is a job that they do because they need the money. It's not fun and exciting. It's something you put up with because doing so beats being broke.

I think young people of your generation have been talked into believing a lot of baloney about how great life is supposed to be. How we're here to live out our dreams and have lives that are supposed to be "awesome." Then reality sets in, and it can be pretty tedious. Whichever way you decide, "exploring the possibilities" and "discovering who you are" will be giving way to some substantial pain. Welcome to adulthood.

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Two things are for sure:

#1) Being a parent involves a lot of hardship.

#2) If you never have kids, you'll spare yourself that kind of hardship.