What do I do when boyfriend and I can't agree on having kids.

I think timing often plays a role but in this situation I truly believe that he will never want children. Me however I don’t know if I will change MY mind down the line. It’s unfortunate that women have a biological clock working against us. I would hate to be pressured into having children before I’m ready just because my clock has run out.

I agree that depression has several different factors not just the chemical imbalance or the genetics. I do believe that those two are part of it but not the whole story. I would agree that there is a factor of how you approach life.

You said:

In prior threads and here, you twist yourself in knots trying to justify everyone but you. To overcome your own depression, you need to do less of that.

What do you mean by that?

I would agree that I have myself to work on and my own pesenissm, unhappiness, and complaining. And so does he. There are many reasons why both of us struggle with happiness that were there long before we ever met.

You are very young. 23? You most certainly have many years ahead of you to have kids and find maybe more suitable partner. I understand you think he us the love of your life. We all thought that at 23. Yet you have no idea what’s down the road and who is a better match. We all thought we know it all at your age. You can’t possibly have enough life experience to know. So don’t limit yourself and don’t make sacrifices that aren’t needed

I’m very aware that I don’t know it all. That’s why I turn to this forum because I am LOST. I won’t have kids for at least another 7 years. I am in a 4 year relationship and we are at a crossroads where we are asking if we’re all in or not and kids is an important part of that. Many people get married in their 20s and have lost lasting and fulfilling marriages. I’m reluctant to let my 4 year relationship go over kids- something I’m not even fully sure will happen for me.

you're not fully sure will happen but if you choose to stay with someone that has decided not to have them you make it a sure thing that it won't. Keeping that option is an important thing to consider right now.

Ultimately it's your decision but the best advice I can give is to be sure of the consequences of your choice and be sure you're ready to accept it fully before even thinking about making that very life changing decision.

What I mean is, decide what's more important and whether this person in particular is worth giving something like that up for. that's the million dollar question. no one here can say what is right and what is acceptable to you which is why I say the best advice is to know for sure if it's what you want, either way.

If you are only 23, I suggest you concentrate on yourself and your career first, you have time to think about having a child and even seeing if this relationship is going to evolve into something you want to continue to have the rest of your life. The both of you are going to be growing and maturing the next few years. And sometimes this can mean a couple grows apart too.

I understand you are reluctant. On one hand 4 years isn’t that long (it seems long to you because of your age) but on the other hand 4 years is long enough to know if you two are right match. If you are still questioning 4 years later than maybe it’s not ideal situation. It’s great that you are searching for answers.

At 23 I’d think about graduate degree and fulfilling life long career. You aren’t happy with your job and that’s concerning that you are more focused on this man and your future with him. Do give it a lot of thought please

I remember how much pressure your mom and sis were putting on you in your own home, based on what you related. To me they sounded way out of line and your guy was justifiably resentful. You indicated this was a pattern with them. Then you rationalized that they "only want what is best" for you. That's what I mean. You really go the extra mile to appreciate their viewpoint. Read what I wrote in that thread. You seemed to be very uncomfortable with backing them off, which means it's hard for you to maintain appropriate boundaries and get those boundaries respected - at least with your family. Now you are very sympathetic to your guy's claim of being chronically, severely depressed and believing he couldn't possibly cope with fatherhood. You are very generous in seeing all of their points of view - a bit overly generous perhaps.

This young man didn't pick you out of the crowd randomly. You're probably not the first person he dated. He could have moved on after dating you, but he didn't. He knows what he wants in a mate, and you've got it! Now what would that be? You sound like a good catch: young, nice, caring, intelligent. I'm sure he appreciates all of that. But you also have a track record of letting others try to set your agenda for you - at least that's how you described the family situation. He noticed that all right. I also thought he sounded like a healthy influence encouraging you to be more emancipated from Mom & Sis. Now I see where he where he might be attracted to a woman who puts his agenda ahead of her own. I think you mentioned somewhere that he can get a bit sullen when he's not happy with what's going on. That sulleness - if it exists - is the hallmark of a person who can be pretty stubborn about getting their own way. Beware of a man who's inclined to sulk. I grew up with a father like that (and I'm a bit like that, myself.) That is a technique of pressuring that works particularly well in a relationship with a woman who likes to please.

You have so much compassion for his depression and all the childhood sorrows that have fed into it. Watch out: Depressives can be like drunks. Each has a disease they didn't ask for. But, if you cater too much to either of them, they never learn to "manage" their disease. Don't be an enabler.

Your boyfriend gas a right to his own agenda - if it is healthy . . . if it makes some kind of sense. You have a right to critique that agenda and see if everything in it is what you want to promote. When we were still both real young, my brother told me, "I don't ever want any kids because they just drain a man of all his money." (He always heard our father whining about how hard it was to support a family.) Then my brother ended relationships with a series of girlfriends who wanted kids. Now my brother lives an absolutely miserable, barren life. He made darn sure no young woman trapped him into something he was looking to avoid. I wish one of them had. He was pursuing a stupid agenda, and he got what he wanted - no big responsibilities. His life sucks. And he's chronically dealing with mental health issues that he sees coming from his "unbalanced brain." I think his brain was basically okay. But his thinking sure wasn't. Your boyfriend is not my brother. But I sense there is something unhealthy in his not wanting what it is normal to want. I link that to him being "severely depressed" on an on-going basis, which I think gets to be a form of self-indulgence. As with drunks: AA tells its members that they may always be alcoholic, but they don't have to keep drinking.

I think your guy is wanting a set-up where he will always be your - and his - main priority . . . with no pesky kid around soaking up any of your, or his, attention. And you, sweet thing that you are, can totally see where maybe that's just the way he really needs to live. I think you're being had.

I am focused on my career every day. I just found that this forum is not the best place to reach out for support about a career. It works better for relationship advice. I look at programs and requirements and jobs often.

I agree with that. I think there is a lot of growing that happens in your 20s. Yet people get married in their 20s all the time. They have kids in their 20s. Not sure how you can make a lifelong commitment to someone who may not end up to be the same person you married.

People change over time, mature, grow, have different priorities in life as they age. So yes it’s possible to realize that the person isn’t really who you thought they were.

Not only people change but also young people often as you said yourself “blinded by love” and just don’t see beyond that. Sure many young people marry in their 2Os but statistically speaking young marriages are less likely to survive.

In your situation age is not relevant though. What’s relevant is that you don’t share fundamental values with this man and aren’t sure he is right match.

Yes I agree that I am generous in seeing others viewpoints. I have always struggled with issues around boundaries with my family. One example is currently They have been pushing me to quit my job when I myself don’t believe that to be the best move. I have told them I do not want to do that right now. I don’t think it’s appropriate for my family to make decisions about MY career.

They do “want what’s best” but they don’t always know what’s best. What’s best for them may not be best for me. And it’s up to me to be inflenced by them or not. That is a decision that I make and I am working on setting those boundaries and doing things for myself the way I want them to. Not letting them dictate what I do with my life.

I am his first girlfriend and his first serious relationship. He is not my first. I know he wants a partner who does have their own career and life but I also think he appreciates getting his own way. His mom had a very successful career, made more money than his dad, and is her own person. He always appearciated this independence. He has done compromising and so have I.

His reason behind not wanting kids is NOT because of depression. He never said that. I believe he would have a difficult time being a parent because of his depression. I mentioned depression because someone talked about what kind of parent he would be and attachment and I know having a parent with depression can be difficult on a child. He is very ashamed of his depression and did not even mention it until 3 years into our relationship. He rarely talks about it.

He does not want kids simply because he does not like the lifestyle of a parent, the financial burden, the responsibility. He does not enjoy the company of children. Yes he likes it when it is just the two of us or us with some friends. I don’t think that him not wanting to be a father is something that’s so wrong and bad. Some people just don’t want to be Parents and that’s okay. It’s a 24/7 job and if you can’t do that then you shouldn’t parent. He knows he can’t. Your brother is miserable- possibly because he’s alone. but I think my boyfriend would be unhappy as a father. He is more than happy to commit to a marriage. Sure he wants me all to himself without any pesky kids but he never wanted kids. Even before he met me.

When did you have time to have a serious relationship or any relationship wit someone else if you’ve been together since you were 19?

Not only is it inappropriate for your family to "make decisions about" your career, it is impossible for them to do so. But they're not going to stop trying - not anytime soon . . . because they believe you are susceptible to being influenced. What they believe is up to them. Some stuff you just let go in one ear and out the other. What you don't do is try to defend your decision to stay at this job . . . because . . . you . . . don't . . . have to. They'll get tired of talking about this, if you don't make it fun for them. You can even say, "Gee, you both make some interesting points. I'll have to think about that." Then you think about what they said for zero seconds. Your life goes on. Their lives go on. It sounds like you're making progress separating from them. Good for you. Little by little, they will catch on that your life belongs to you. You can be your own person.

Kids can sure be a burden, financially and otherwise. And they sure aren't always a joy to be around. Keeping it just the two of you may have lots of advantages. No law says you have to have kids. No one is guaranteed a healthy baby. It's a risky undertaking. The lifestyle of a parent is no walk in a rose garden.

No one knows in advance how competent they will, or won't, be at parenting. You do believe "he would have a difficulit time being a parent." After 4 years, I expect you know him pretty well. You could give in to him on this, and he could give in on some other issues. It might turn out to be a happy life for the two of you. He is warning you - as I see it - that he doesn't want you ever to be sorry down the line about agreeing to a "no kids" marriage. Or, rather, he doesn't want you ever acting like he forced you into something. Neither you, nor any of us, can predict how you will feel in 20 years. But he is basically requiring some strong assurances from you that you're going to be, and stay, all right with this. The title of this thread includes the words: "I can't agree . . ." So you do have quite an internal dilemma to resolve. But he was very fair in telling you right from the get-go that kids had to be out of the picture. Wait a minute. While you were in the process of falling in love, he threw out that maybe you guys could adopt . . . or have just one. He agreed to those options. But then he went "back and forth." Then, after your heart was won, he said 100% absolutely no kids. So he's been real consistent and fair. Aaahh . . . I'm getting confused.

I think you are too.

Yes, people in their early 20's think they are now an adult and mature and ready to handle a lot of things. What "changes" a person is life experiences and learning how to be independent. We all learn by doing and experiencing and there are most definitely things one chooses to do only to find out they are not fulfilled and happy with their choice. You are right at the age where you are learning to make your own choices too, learning that while others have their opinions wants and needs, you are beginning to really think about what "you" want. Notice I used the term "learning", that's important because some people never actually learn how to make their own healthy choices for themselves and actually engage that choice. Sometimes, without even realizing it a person ends up choosing around their partner's wants and needs and then without realizing it they end up living their life around their partners wants and needs and never got to have their own sense of growth and accomplishment in their life.

Honestly, now is the best time to think about what "you" want and what you have shared is you are not happy with your career choice. This is important because people can get trapped in the wrong career for a lot of years and remain unfulfilled and unhappy. It's much better to have a career you "love" engaging in because it's less likely to become a ball and chain for you and much more likely to settle you into a sense of fulfillment instead. Well, right now you are young, you have not committed to a marriage, you can wait to have a child too so this is when you should be thinking about what career you really want. Also, what is your education and what do you have that can connect you towards going in a more rewarding direction?

You don't have to get married either right now. You can spend time on yourself first and you may end up realizing that the partner you have right now is not really someone you want to devote your life to.

No one knows what kind of parents we would be. Half the time people just make it up as they go. Kids don’t come with instruction manual. Ask any first time parent. So not wanting to be a parent is understandable but not knowing how to be a parent is really just common.

Yes they can’t “make” me do anything. The choice is ultimately mine in the end. They will do it more and more if I let them.

Yeah I know we can have a good life just the two of us. Like I said he agreed to live near my family so I will have them in my life. I will have close friends around. We will be financially stable and not having kids means I can have more of an ability to focus on my career. He has always encouraged that. We could have a nice comfortable home- something that I haven’t always had living in tiny apartments and growing up in poverty. We could travel the word together- one of my top joys in life. I value traveling more than having children (but it doesn’t mean I can’t have both).

But I fear that I will always feel the void. I have a very small family as most of my family is abroad and I always felt that void of not being surrounded by family. So I thought children could be a good way to build my own family up.

When we met I was 20 and he said he didn’t want kids within the first few months of dating. Back then I didn’t know if I wanted them or not. I had just experienced a huge trauma and he was the first man I even felt comfortable with. As our relationship has progressed and I’m faced with the idea of not having kids I realize that I do want them. We spent the last year really taking about it which was after I’d already been in love for a while and that’s when he wanted to compromise for my sake but he thinks ultimately it would be the wrong choice ultimately landing on his final decision to not have them.

So his decision is final. Well, I guess that settles that.

Well I suddenly got a very debilitating migraine this morning and have been throwing up all afternoon. I am reacting physically to this situation. Boyfriends been taking care of me and he’s ill too. Everything in my heart is telling me to stay but my head is whispering it won’t work out.

Sorry you are so sick. Take it easy and give your mind a rest.

You are in love and have been for 4 years. Leaving him now would feel like a divorce. Besides, where would you go? You are very dependent upon him.

It doesn't sound like he is going to change his mind. Maybe the two of you could start planning a trip to some place interesting.

So sorry to read that you are having a migraine.

I still wonder if he's tossing out the breakup card with you? Hence, being so unnerved by this. Is he making this a now or never decision? Why now?

I like this idea. If it's about traveling, let his actions speak louder than words.

What if children don't fill that void?

That very well could happen. There’s a lot of stuff in my background that have left me feeling empty and fixing that emptiness starts from within. I think I expected building my own family to help fix that but in life there’s no guarantees in life except death.

The hard part is that I can’t honestly answer the question of what I would feel like 10, 20, 30 years from now living a childless existence. Ultimately that’s probably what makes this decision the hardest. Knowing that I have the possibility of a good life with a man I love in front of me and giving it up to MAYbE have kids one day. I’m not a fortune teller and I’m very uncomfortable with the gamble. I could have kids and still be unhappy, empty, and feel a void. I could have kids but be in an unhappy marriage. I could break up with my bf now and never find the right man to have kids with. I could leave my bf only to never stop loving him. I could never be ready for kids. I could have a kid with a significant disability or health complication. I could have a horrible or distant relationship with my child. I could never get to a place where I can even afford children. I could lose a child. I could lose a husband. I think I’m just so afraid of making the wrong decision. At the end of the day all I want is to be happy.