Stuck

Ignoring, mocking, calling names, denying the truth, and flipping it around on you are all abuse tactics. You've suffered abuse from this man. Of course it hurts. It's very painful to be mistreated and disrespected over and over again.

Talked with my counselor about how his symptoms are not just mental illness and addiction, but also personality disorder. She said his disorder was caused by abuse, and then he uses the same tactics on me that were used on him.

He now involves our child in his addiction problems, dragging her onto his rollercoaster, promising her give it up then disappointing her the very next day. He even told her his plan to smoke all his stash (a lot) then quit next day. He’s said this to me so many times and it’s a big waste of money how he’ll blow his stash and turn around to buy more the next day or so. I have been driven crazy living on his rollercoaster that he controls at all times. And now he puts her on it.

He is an idiot. And I’m the biggest idiot for letting him get away with it.

His "symptoms." Really. So his character traits are "symptoms."

A bad person has bad character traits. But a sick person has "symptoms." Your husband is not a bad person. He's a sick person. That is the corner you keep backing yourself into.

How could you possibly be so cruel as to even consider abandoning a sick man? You know it's not his fault that he's "sick." You know how abused he was. You know this is the behavior he learned that was used on him. It's not his fault that he has this personality disorder.

Any woman who would break her marital vows and abandon her spouse because she's fed up with him having a sickness deserves to feel guilt and shame. You don't walk out on someone just because they are very sick. That's when you stick by them! (If you're any kind of a decent person.)

That is the corner you keep backing yourself into. You will never have any option to change anything, if you keep seeing this man as someone whose problem is that he is "sick."

It’s not the person’s fault if they have personality disorder or illness or disorder. But calling one’s spouse bad names or involving a child in one’s drama is a choice, not an illness.

As about his stash. Is he keeping drugs in the house? I get it that’s probably legal in your state, it’s legal in mine but I am not sure how wise is it to keep all that in the house? I’d not allow drugs in my house. If I had an addict in my house, he’d have to stash it elsewhere.

His idea to smoke his stash and then quit is silly. Having said that, that is how I quit smoking years ago. Had a goal to smoke the last pack and then last cigarette and quit cold turkey. I tried twice. It worked second time. I still remember my last cigarette. Where I sat. I remember saying to myself “this is my last cigarette. I will enjoy it and then I am done”. Then I counted days. A day without smoking a week a month first year and then I lost track. Was it easy? No. But these were regular cigarettes, not mind altering substances!

I don’t know anyone who quit alcohol or drugs cold turkey without any psychological and/or physical assistance. Who is he kidding here

You’re right, she didn’t say symptoms, rather she said the behavior/incident we were discussing was NOT a symptom of mental illness. She said it’s indicative of a personality disorder. And then she told me how that came to be for him and how he behaves, based on the things she knows about his upbringing. It wasn’t a way to excuse his behavior though. And then she said he has addiction on top of it all, as well. Basically saying there’s no room left for anything healthy with us, I’m sure, or she’s just leveling with me. Its not reasons or excuses to keep sticking it out.

I have been backed in that corner and working on seeing my way out. I understand that I was raised to think this way because of my dad, mom. My dad had so much power over me and I never knew any other way. I was very afraid of him, yet couldn’t admit that, and thought we had a very close relationship full of love, but it was completely unhealthy. Even my relationship with my mom was unhealthy and I had to cut her out of my life. I have only a few relationships and connections that I maintain. I’ve always been quite uncomfortable with friendship, and always put my energy in unhealthy romantic relationships or just immediate family.

I have spent many years overcoming obstacles. More than once I’ve had to start over in my belief systems. I’ve starting over again. I’m just beginning to clearly see I’ve been believing in myths. I already had identified an entire sheet of paper of myths years ago, and here I am doing it again because there were just that many I guess!! I couldn’t even look people in the eye for several years of my life as a child. I was not safe or secure!

I need confidence!

He keeps it in his shed. I don’t let it in his house. I’m not saying it’s a large quantity to keep, but it was a lot to smoke in one night.

I don't believe anyone chooses to have a personality disorder any more than they choose their sexual orientation or their blood type. I'm really not looking to blame your husband for being as he is. By the way, he is not an idiot. (And neither are you.) Your husband is a clever guy. He's getting a lot of needs met, without having to do much to earn what he gets. He's figured out how to keep you exactly where he wants you. He's far from stupid.

I believe he does have "agency." I suspect he would be capable of switching to a different behavior pattern, if he had sufficient incentive. By that I mean, if his bad behavior had serious enough bad consequences for him. I worked as a nurse in the psychiatric division of a men's prison. A prison population is pretty stable, so I got to know these inmates pretty well. They were in prison because they had done bad things . . . as bad as you can imagine. Some had raped and murdered children. They were in the psych units because they had mental illness. Guess how they behaved? Most of the time, most of them behaved just fine. They were all, quite consistently, very nice to me. This is because they were tightly controlled. An inmate who doesn't play nice with his peers ends up getting locked down alone in his cell 23 hours a day. An inmate who behaves nicely toward a prison nurse gets treated nicely in return. He's apt to get more attention from the nurse. You'ld be amazed how well-mannered this population of men behaved . . . toward each other and toward the staff.

If your husband got put in prison, his behavior would probably improve to an astonishing degree. Once he learned the consequences for bad behavior, he'ld probably modify that behavior in a good direction because he's not stupid. The threat of being isolated works wonders as a powerful incentive.

People of very bad character need to be in an environnent where they are tightly controlled. Once they are subject to that much control, they often demonstrate behavior that is just fine. Our prisons hold some notorious inmates, convicted of monstrous crimes, who are currently behaving as nicely as you could wish. They just needed the right set of incentives. Maybe you've heard of Scott Peterson. He murdered his pregnant wife. The authorities at San Quentin say he "has no rules violations." He follows the prison regulations. If your husband were locked up, he wouldn't treat anyone there the way he treats you. He'ld choose different behavior because he would face consequences that would effectively motivate him. Your husband will act just as crappy as he can get away with. That is not mainly driven by being "sick." That is driven by his lack of character. You will never have sufficient leverage over your husband to modify his behavior.

I'm not telling you to leave him or throw him out. I'm encouraging you to face the reality of who and what he is . . . and the reality of what influence you can or can't have on him. You and your therapist can analyze this guy until the cows come home. It's not going to lead to you figuring out how to get him to change. But you're not ready to let go of that hope. Maybe you never will be. This is not you being an idiot. This is you trying to find an option that doesn't exist. You've bought in to the idea that your husband is sick and that, with enough medical help, he can become well. You've been sold a bill of goods. That false idea floats around in our society, and you got infected with it.

You are getting confidence bit by bit. You do! Don’t let anyone to take your confidence from you

It’s totally understandable that we often choose the life path that is familiar and was instilled in us in the childhood. It’s healthy and important to understand that. And I commend you for understanding that. Many people don’t. You aren’t one of them.

And then there are people who do recognize where their life choices come from, but choose to spend their life wallowing in misery, never succeeding professionally, never having healthy relationships or friendships and never grow as a person because they choose to see themselves as still young children and victims of bad upbringing. We are powerless as children. We aren’t powerless as adults.

At some point we grow up. We could choose to think of themselves as crying infants or as powerful independent grown ups who could build healthy lives and ensure that our children grow up to be healthy and successful. Otherwise we create and perpetuate misery in the next generation

You can choose to devote your life to your husband or you can choose to create healthy environment for your daughter and yourself. You can’t have both. It’s not happening. Again you don’t have to leave him but at some point you will have to come to terms that you cannot change him and he definitely shouldn’t be allowed to drag your daughter in to his drama. He also shouldn’t be given any money to spend on anything frivolous.

Yes, abuse is cyclical. Abusers typically learn their behaviors by mirroring their parents' behavior towards them.

Your daughter may grow to become a codependent, as you have become yourself because she likely wants to fix her father and doesn't know how.

You're not an idiot. But, you are making a choice to remain with someone who abuses you. Know that this is a choice you are consciously choosing.

Starlingflock, it’s not unusual for someone to marry someone that is similar to a toxic parent. It’s not an intentional choice, however often key red flags are missed because a person can feel safe due to what’s familiar. Also twenty years ago we simply were not exposed to all the information about personality disorders and toxic behavior red flags like we experience now.

I married a binge alcoholic just like my father, I didn’t know what that was and what happens when dealing with an individual that has addiction problems. They typically present a certain cycle of behaviors AND can continue these behaviors even if they stop using. This is known as dry drunk behavior. If a person grows up with this it may be something they get used to not recognizing how it’s affecting them adversely. Instead these mood swings they live around in a parent are expected.

In therapy I had learned that my life revolved around the mood swings of an addicted personality. And it is living with a disordered individual. People with this problem can be charming and caring and nice and their mood changes. I was told that even though my husband finally got sober and attended AA, he would need therapy to address his mood swings and how that affected his family.

It’s not unusual to get to the point that you are sharing where your husband’s issues have become too difficult. He is also going to continue to manipulate you to put up with him as this has worked for him for years.

This is not a quick fix when you can’t be independent due to finances. However, you are still young enough where you can work towards being more independent. Plenty of women take this path.

My concern is how this is affecting your children. I think you should have a private talk with your children about this. Let them share their concerns.

Hi starling flock.
I found that I could only gain true confidence when I made the choice that I knew to be right in my heart, often a choice I had known to be the right one but had been avoiding the truth of it through all kinds of mental acrobatics.
Confidence is knowing yourself, your needs and the most tricky of all, your wants.
No amount of advice from others can give you true confidence, the choice is all yours and that’s what gives you the strength.
We need to be in our own corners, have our own backs, love ourselves and protect ourselves.
Do what is in your heart starlingflock, it sounds like it’s time for a change.

I wasn't talking about what "she said." I really don't care what "she said." This is about what "you" say. You keep describing your husband as "sick."

You are not being "backed into a corner." You are backing into a corner. There's a difference.

You spoke earlier of shame being thrown at you. Nothing is being thrown at you (except your husband's insults.)

It truly is shameful to abandon a spouse because one is tired of his "sickness." As long as you see him as a "sick" person, you will feel ashamed of failing to support him. And you will deserve to feel shame. It is wrong to blame someone for being sick.

Yes, your husband is sick. But that's not the whole story, as you keep making it be. He is a bad person. He engages in evil behavior. Mental illness doesn't make a person bad. He's bad because he lacks moral values. He believes he has a right to do whatever he can get away with. That belief didn't come from being mentally ill. It probably came from growing up under the influence of someone who lacked moral integrity.

Your husband's lack of moral values comes from his beliefs about right and wrong. It is not a sickness. It is an evil way of thinking. At his age, that way of thinking is hard-wired in his head. You will not change it by pleading with him to adopt a "healthy" approach to life. Doing what is right is something He Does Not Care About.

Hi starlingflock. I hope you are well tonight

You are NOT an idiot. You are a wife who is struggling with a difficult choice. I can wish and hope for many things for you. Tonight I choose to hope you stop thinking you are an idiot.

No one can change the past. We can't go back and make different choices in hopes it changes our present. Beating yourself up by calling yourself an idiot is not going to bring you to happiness in the future. It only keeps you focused on the past. Wishing you had done things differently is normal, but the past is how you got now. It does not have to dictate your future.

All the best.

I decided abruptly today was the day. I told him I want to divorce. He was angry and wanted to tell the kids immediately, I think believing they would be upset and try to talk me out of it. Of course that’s not what happened. My son even told him he probably won’t talk to him anymore (he lives out of the house).

I’ve been crying off and on all day. It’s right for me and my child, but obviously sad and will be difficult ahead. Husband bought weed, and junk food and has been binge watching tv since.

I checked in with him awhile ago, and he said he loves me with all his heart, and wants to make it work. But asking how…he just says his normal stuff…and I said it clarifies that he is interested in other things and not the relationship and having a healthy dynamic. He says oh what you’re talking about my addiction. I said yeah that’s one thing marriages break up over addiction. He said I’m breaking vows.

He said he’s not doing a thing and I can talk to a lawyer and do the work.

My kid…without my permission or direction..asked him if he will leave and let us have the house and put the house on the market. He said sure.

It’s been an exhausting day.

I have to follow through.

Wow, I can’t imagine working with that population!
I told him today I want to separate. I still am fighting feeling the hope that he’ll see that it was wrong to talk to me those ways, or make financial decisions without me, or dismiss and discount me, etc.
I don’t know what would make his behavior better, he prides himself a nice guy.

I don’t want to be in an abusive relationship. I want my efforts to matter.

I told my husband that I’ve been living my life around him while he rejects me. He didn’t even argue that, I don’t think. I think I am financially independent now, I can afford our house myself, or I can afford an apartment, not necessarily take on another mortgage though in this market. I can’t afford another place for him and my own. He has to keep a job.

My kids shared their concerns with me in the first place, which is what lit a fire under me.

You say you could cover the mortgage on your home. Don’t forget that your husband owns half of whatever equity you have in that home.

Yes I’ve been avoiding the truth, or rather minimizing the impact. I couldn’t separate the man I love from all the unloving things he does.
I know I want to feel respected, that I have control of my life. I don’t want to be embroiled in dysfunction (anymore).
I have to draw the line, not keep begging for something. I need to act with self respect.
Reptileinthehead-..i believe you…it is time for a change.

He wants to feel safe, his way, that’s it.

Thank you. I made a difficult choice. I have to let go of all the past and have to create the best future I can.

Right. the only real option is to sell ASAP.

I’m pretty anxious. This is going to be very difficult. It will be much easier if he decides it’s better for him.

As you say above, you have difficult days ahead. I wouldn't go making a lot more announcements to him about what you are doing. It will just provoke bad behavior from him.

Make sure your paychecks go into an account that's in your name only. See an attorney about protecting yourself financially. Your husband may try applying for credit that you could end up financially responsible for. He may try to get a line of credit based on home equity. He could end up spending the home equity before you even figure out what you'll do with the house. See a lawyer, and don't even mention to your husband that you have spoken to a lawyer. Your husband is clever and manipulative. You need an attorney to explain to you what rights your husband has. Your husband will be strategizing how to use his rights to manipulate things in his favor. He will certainly look to drain out what marital assets he can plunder. Get rid of any joint credit cards.

A part of your heart is going to hope that the divorce announcement shows him you're serious and will shake him up into wanting to change and act better. You'll go back and forth on that. That's okay. Just go get legal advice on how to protect yourself from what financial stunts he might pull.

Avoid getting into verbal back and forths with your husband. Go about things quietly. If he sees you seriously pursuing separation/divorce he is going to get really angry. He has the potential to become dangerous. That could get directed at himself, or at you. He is a manipulator. Avoid drama. You may want to pour out your heart to him. Don't.

We just now had a big hug and I cried. I can’t stop crying all day. I feel like I just took a step backwards but I need to be strong and push forward. I will make sure my paycheck goes in a new account.
He manipulates me.
I keep worrying to myself about him self harming but he said to our son that he is going to be safe and will take care of himself.