[beacher27]

I have been involved with a sweet, eager to please, loving man for 10 years now, married for 4. Problem is, he acts like a child, talks like he's a know-it-all, has a real problem admitting he's wrong or taking blame. He blames me for his anger, saying if I wasn't on his *** and giving him so much pressure that he wouldn't behave the way he does. I am on his *** for every little thing, but sometimes I'm not and he still acts like an ******. I have spent the entire relationship yelling get out and I want a divorce. Then I go back b/c I see all the good in him and I realize that I'm selfish and difficult and all he wants to do is spend time with me. I feel like I can't voice my opinions or feelings if they are different than his b/c then he accuses me of telling him he's wrong. I'm beginning to think I am depressed and codependent. His best friend thinks he suffers from verbal dyslexia, where he makes up stuff and lies to himself so he's never wrong. My family and friends don't think he's good enough for me and have seen him put me down, criticize me and tell me the "right" way to do things. Thing is I've done the same thing to him in front of his family and friends. My family thinks he abuses me and when I say that I've abused him too they tell me they think I was reacting to him, that I have no self esteem and I would be different with someone else. He has gotten in fights with all of my friends and family b/c he always has to be right and talks out of his *** about things he knows nothing about. He's very defensive. I've read countless articles on emotional abuse and always realize that I am guilty of it too. Months ago, everything blew up and he walked around the house yelling and screaming about how he wanted a divorce (usually my line) and threatened to get me out of the house, walked around singing ****** and loser, just not to my face. When we started talking a week ago b/c he was nice again and I was crying, I tried to call him on his behavior and his reaction was, "what about all the things you did to me?" He seems to think his behavior was ok because I tried to defend myself and fought back and when he threatened me, I protected myself. Now, we both have lawyers and he now seems willing to discuss the issues in our relationship and work on them. He's willing to go to marriage counseling, but I'm nervous b/c twice in the past he told me that if he went to a therapist the therapist would end up needing him. Our divorce is on hold and we're supposed to be deciding what we want to do, but I am having trouble trusting what he says and I feel like he's just on his best behavior. He told me that he had 6 months of not talking to me and he had changed-he doesn't get mad anymore. I want to believe that things will change if we get counseling, but I can't keep living my life this way. I try to leave, then I go back-done it the whole relationship-only difference this time is that I'm now working on me. In the past, I blamed him for everything, my unhappiness. But when I think about it, a lot of the times I was unhappy was b/c he called me an ******, which I did too, or I would try to talk to him about his behavior that hurt me and he would twist it around so that I would feel wrong. I'm sorry this is so long, but now he seems so much more grown up and I'm so confused. I don't know if I should just call the lawyer and go through with the separation, which he thinks he's going to buy me out of our house, or should I try to make my marriage work. Sometimes I think he only cares about the house. Can anybody offer any advice? I would really appreciate it. Thanks.

[gloria]

I have two words for you

MARRIAGE COUNSELING, and hope for the best

gab

[beacher27]

Thank you for reading, but after 10 years of things getting worse do you really think it could work? I would like to believe so, but I'm terrified it won't.

[gloria]

things like what you mentioned don't get worked out on their own. Actually you know they don't because they haven't, right?

I'm not saying that marriage counseling will, but what going to marriage counseling will do for you, is givie you the sence that, you did everything you could to work things out.

My h and I did marriage enrichment, counseling, support group, and we are still going to break up, so, when it is not workable, it isn't. but I feel a whole lot better because I know we tried everything we could to "save it".

gab

[beacher27]

What would you think if I told you that before we got married we went to a therapist while we were living together. She said that we were two different people with 2 different ways of thinking and we had a fear of intimacy-that's why we fight. It got better for awhile and we got married and it got worse. That's why I'm not sure it's even worth it to go back to counseling. Thank you for all of your advice-I really appreciate it.

[Sesquix]

From what you write, there is really not much to salvage. There is no respect or even trust. I almost sensed that for you counseling was an alternative to splitting up the house. Give it a whirl with the counselor, but it seems like a mighty long time to be repeating this behavior. Just don't expect too much too soon. I can understand what the therapist meant when she said you were too different to be with each other. There are many ways in which you are not compatible, can you think of ways in which you are compatible? emotionally, physically, fiscally, character-wise....get my point. What is your idea of a dream guy and how far off is he? Do you have any doubt that you could meet someone better for you than your husband? Good luck with counseling. Sesquix

[beacher27]

Thanks for reading, I know it was really long. Here's the latest- he just called and we were talking. I asked him where the therapists number was and I said I thought that we should call and get information and set up a session very soon so we could both get a feel for if it would work or not. He mentioned his finances and how he didn't think he could pay for it if insurance didn't cover it. For some reason ( and he's blaming it on the lawyers fees), he doesn't have any money and can't afford to split the cost. He started yelling about how he couldn't pay his bills and I told him I thought the counseling should be a priority for both of us. He kept yelling that he didn't have the money. I tried to say again that we needed to find out if insurance would cover it. He kept yelling, I told him that him not having any money was his problem and he said," yeah it is, goodbye." and hung up on me. What did I do wrong this time-I just don't get it.

[gloria]

Ozzie is right on target!
Do what your heart tells you. there are people that will tell you to make it work, there are people that will tell you to run the other way. At the end, the one carrying the consequences of your choice will be you!! So make sure that, what ever your choice is, is the one you can live with.

Best wishes.

gab

[(JD)]

well first of all realize that I am not in the best shape to give advice ,being quite depressed...

but you can think about some things I will say...

quit saying 10 years... you might have been trying to love him for 10 years but you have only made it legal for the last 4

did you ever have a marriage? really a marriage that was give and give to each other?

there is more than two modes: married and divorced

you can separate... get your lives together separately see if you can live alone and without each other see if either of you will change see if it's worth working on

do you realize how much you contradicted yourself in your own post?

how sweet and nice he is being an ***** How is this possible?

<font color=blue> meditation is a true way to connect to the Source </font color=blue>

[beacher27]

I seem to contradict myself a lot but sometimes I think he has a mental disorder. He is really sweet but when he doesn't want to talk about something or hear what I have to say, he tells me off or calls me names, like today. After he hung up on me, he came home, acted like nothing happened, didn't apologize for hanging up on me and when I tried to talk to him about his behavior, he told me that I yelled first. I KNOW I didn't yell, but I end up feeling like I'm crazy. It seems that he lies to himself and twists reality so I did something wrong first. Therefore, in his head, his behavior was ok. Then, he accused me of not wanting this marriage to work b/c I lose it every time he tells me I did something that I KNOW I didn't do. I don't know what to do-I left the house and went to the gym to cool off, but now I'm back and he's just playing his video games and ignoring me. I'm getting really sick of being the better person. Thanks for reading my post and please be honest about what you think. I need that, even if it turns out that I'm the idiot here.

[betty_3]

Picture yourself at the end of your life and turn around and look back at this time. What do you see? What do you want it to be at the end of your life? Divorce is permanent.

[beacher27]

I see fighting and frustration but I also see love and safety. I just don't want to fight anymore, I want to be allowed to be me and I definitely do not want to make a mistake.

[Sesquix]

If he already has a divorce lawyer and is pushing you away, his mind seems to be set up. It takes two and he is not willing to go to counseling. I agree with those that think separation is a good idea. Maybe he will realize how it is to be without you and try therapy, or maybe you realize you are just as happy without him and can show your daughter a good example of confidence and independence. I know it is easier said than done. Best to concentrate on the transition for your daughter. I would not know to handle this. What does your therapist say?

[beacher27]

We both have divorce lawyers and I don't have a daughter. We don't have any kids. Actually, he must have done some thinking because he is now willing to go to counseling and we had a long conversation about the fight that we had. He just seems to be upset with himself about his financial situation. My therapist says as long as I have doubts, I should not make any big decisions that I am not sure about and that I should concentrate on me and what makes me happy and try to keep my relationship problems a little more private when it comes to my family and friends. Thanks for responding.

[Rapunzel]

Your therapist sounds pretty wise. You don't have to make a decision yet, and if talking about it to your family and friends brings on judgement from them or they try to influence your decision and feelings, then it probably isn't constructive to talk to them about it. That's what is good about a place like this site - you can talk to us as much as you need to and are comfortable with, and we can be a more neutral sounding board for you, since we have no vested interest in your decision.

<font color=orange>"If a light beckons to you, follow it. If it leads you into the quagmire, you'll probably find your way out of it again; but if you don't follow it, you'll be plagued for the rest of your life by the thought that perhaps it was your star." Friedrich Hebbet</font color=orange>

[Sesquix]

As I have discovered, a lot here is written about what we would wish to do, but can only come so close with words and not actions. I hops the counseling works well and progress is made. Sesquix

[mandala]

Hi,

Just read this thread.

I hope things are peaceful right now between the two of you.

Your marriage sounds a lot like mine (11 yrs together, 8 married) Lots of anger and lack of trust and hurt feelings.

I think for my h and I the worst thing is the anger... on both sides. It is easy to tell friends that we are a victim of another's anger... and they will of course advise us we are being abused -- but it is harder to describe and be honest about our own anger and bad habits.

Not to say that necessarily you are equally to blame... but you may be. It's hard to know. I know that my goal has been to fully figure out exactly what "I" am doing that contributes to the situation... once I've got that fully figured out, then I figure I will be in a position to decide whether I want to be with HIM or not. If that makes sense.

Btw, I know my h gets weird over finances too and the fight you most recently describe is EXACTLY the same as fights we have had over marriage counseling... my h really does worry over money. I don't share his concern, but it would be rude (and inaccurate) of me to say it is not "real".

How are things going?

M

[beacher27]

I am so glad to hear someone say they are in a similar situation. Things have calmed down somewhat and we are managing to have mature conversations about the issues in our relationship. But, I am constantly haunted by this feeling that he's not right for me and there's someone out there who's more compatible. I can't shake it. We have our first meeting with the marriage counselor tonight and I am not very positive about it. I feel like it's not really going to help. I'm also very torn between him and my family and friends who are convinced that I've settled and that he is not good enough for me. I have been trying to work on me and I've noticed that I am very insecure and that it caused problems. It's like I have a hard time believing that someone could love me. And I feel like we only talk about what's for dinner, and money, that we're not really friends. He's always asking me what I want to do every night. But, he has insecurities too and those insecurities caused him to behave in ways my family and friends didn't like. But more importantly, I didn't like it. I am so conflicted and have been our whole relationship and now it's worse than ever and I don't know how to get to the bottom of it. Every time I decide to leave, I can't go through with it. Then, when things are good, I feel more conflicted about him.

[mandala]

Beacher,

I really relate to your confusion.

My marriage has always been so conflicted... I can't look back to a romantic "good" time. It sounds like it is similar for you, so it's hard to know what you are hanging in there for... if it's never been great. You know what I mean?

That said... it sounds like your family and friends are really bringing you down. They may feel your spouse is wrong for you, but I think you'd be better off if they concentrated on building you up and supporting you, vs telling you that you have and are making mistakes and "settling".

I don't really think one person settles for another. We hook up with people because of needs and commonalities at a certain point. Whether the relationship lasts is based on whether we are open to changes in both our and their needs and interests and expectations.

There's a book a t rec'd to me called "The Angry Marriage" Maybe you could look at it. There is another called "Should I Leave" which is a sort of philosophical, in depth look at why people make the decision to leave. It's not a checklist sort of thing, more of an exploration of why you might or might not leave a relationship.

I encourage you to be honest and upfront with the counsellor. And try to give the process a little time to work itself out.

good luck M

[julieinblack1969]

Sounds similar to my situation. You can't always follow your heart.... Not to be pessimistic or anything.. but I did that for years.... I kept thinking things would change.... things will get better.. and they just got worse. I was in a very abusive marriage. My situation was dangerous at times. We went to counseling and I feel that I put in 110% effort..and he put in about 10%. He also had a drug and alcohol problem which made matters so much more worse. We are now divorced. I have two sons.. ages 16 and 9. It has been very hard, but we have made it. My ex currently lives with a woman 14 years younger than him who has no children...and caters to his every whim. I could not always pamper him (I didn't want to reward him for foul behavior)... I was busy working, raising my boys, and being responsible while he was in and out of hotels with different druggies, and in and out of jail. I don't know if he is still sober, I sure hope so for her sake. I know that she will end up getting treated the same way I was and that is very sad. It took me a long time to finally realize that the whole dysfunctional relationship was bringing me down. My whole family actually with all of the constant drama that was going on. Every other day it was something. I have blossomed since my divorce.. excelling in my career, education, and I even purchased a BMW for myself which I had always said I would do by the time I turned 40. I am proud to say that I am 35 and I achieved that goal early! woo hoo! Don't ever feel that you cannot make it without this other person. I met my husband when I was 15, we were married when I was 19 and stayed married up until 2 years ago. I grew up with him, and he was the only man I was ever with. You can make it, and don't ever feel trapped, or like you have to stay. Do all you can to save your marriage, but don't sacrifice your sanity and happiness to do it. Good luck to you!

Julieinblack

[gracetoo71]

i shouldn't be giving advise to anyone on marriage, because my marriage seems to be falling apart, but just thought i would add my two cents

i was in a relationship that sounds very similar to yours. we were both angry and would turn that anger at each other. even though one doesn't raise their voice, the attitude or tone can be worse than yelling.

body language also can set someone off. with problems in the past, name calling, yelling, threatening, etc. sometimes when you have had a bad day, or are not in a very good mood, all it takes is someone's attitude or tone to get smacked with that wave from the past. a past of fighting, yelling, name calling, etc..

a wall is automatically put up, anger creeps in, and the attitude, tone, or yelling starts. it took me a few months to see this in the relationship i was in. we lived together for two years and seemed to do nothing but fight. i am thankful, everyday, that we didn't get married.

we, too, had different views on things. it was almost like night and day. once i seen the pattern, and realized that it would never work because there were too many hurt feelings, and the past was nothing but rocky, i knew i had to go.

i am not advising you to leave, i am just trying to explain my situation in hopes you may get something out of it. it seems as if anger has become a pattern in your relationship. you both need to find out where the anger comes from

it could be nothing to do with each other, just something that happened in the past, etc.. even though you don't raise your voice first, maybe your tone or attitude sets him off, and vise versa. maybe therapy seperatly first, to get to the bottom of the anger would be best. then marriage counsiling.

sometimes differences can be settled, but it takes time. sometimes they can't and it may take time to realize that too.

the biggest thing i have learned, from the past and what i am going through now, is that you must take care of you first. if your stress level is so high it effects your health, mental or physical, that must be taken care of first. if you must seperate to do this, then do it. you don't have to rush right into a divorce, no more than you would rush into a marriage.

i hope some of this helped. i wish you all the best. take care and hope to see more posts

[bethannaTN]

Hi, Beacher, I read your letter - twice. You said in your letter that you feel codependent. A very wise woman told me a long time ago that if you want the tug - o - war to stop, all you have to do is drop the rope. Easier said that done - at first. Then it is one of the most self empowering things I could do for myself. I dropped the rope. My husband also acts very much like a child. The games are incredible, as well as the lies and the denial.
I found that he often picks to start something, often does something so out of the way bizarre and nuts and irresponsible - to start something. Is neglectful and selfish - to start something. I used to just let it roll. And there we would go.

Then it dawned on me the words this woman gave to me so long ago - way before I ever married my husband. And I started dropping the rope. He would pick, I would just do what I had been doing, and if he would pick too much, I simply left the room, or the house. He would cause a crisis, I let him pick up his own pieces. After all, just because he is acting like a child, it doesn't mean I have to be his Mommy.
I don't. It was a process of discovery for me. As I learned to take care of my own stuff and worry about making my own skin more comfortable, I felt much more at ease with leaving him with HIS stuff. Know what is happening? He's growing up. If I continued to treat him like a child, he felt all to obliged to BE that child (complete with the baby talk and temper tantrums!!) But changing my thinking to treating him like the forty some odd year old MAN he is, with respect, with trust that if he falls on his face he's more than capable of picking himself back up. . .even if it isn't my way of doing it. . .he started changing . . .very slowly. . .but he started growing into himself.

I second the marriage counseling. It can't hurt, and it may very well help, even if you don't chose to stay in the marriage.


Beth