I give up waiting.

Never mind. It was obviously stupid to post this. It's not like anyone (female at least) can even slightly relate to this problem.

Well, I'm not female, but if it meant enough for you to make the topic in the first place, don't feel discouraged about it. I'm sure someone can offer you something.

ya never know, I am not like your average female. I agree, if it were important enough to make a thread to begin with then it was for a reason.

Maybe we can help who know?

Well, ok…

I was just going to say that I give waiting for a serious relationship to do anything physical. I'm not necessarily referring to losing my virginity here, but I suppose it could happen. It's just that I'm so uncomfortable with these things that I can't mess around with just anybody (at least when it comes to guys). And since no one wants to date me, I would be ok with a friend, but unfortunately none of my male friends are single. Also, I would be pretty sure I'd be rejected even as a friend with benefits anyway.

And it just bothers me when everyone says that girls have so easy…that if you want sex, you can get it if you're female. Or say something like isn't it funny how many guys want to sleep with me. No, I'm afraid it's not.

Hell, even in the closest thing I had to a relationship (I would say it was more of a PG friends with benefits) even he refused to do anything with me.

I don't know what's so physically disgusting about me…even before I had scars I was laughed at for what I looked like. I mean, at least my face and hair are relatively pretty and I'm about average size. But I'd have to get someone drunk first before they'd be remotely interested.

I guess I need to make more male friends…which is difficult for me. We get along just fine, but they don't want me hanging out with them (not single guys anyway) because I'm not someone they want to sleep with, so there's no reason to be friends with me. And so it's finally explained why my only male friends are married.

I'm glad you decided to post. I understand well what you're going through. I too am a little uncomfortable with sexual matters, and I find it difficult making friends of the opposite sex, be it a misalignment of interests or discomfort (and to be frank, I find what most people consider to be what a girl "should" be at my age (20) to be...unappealing, in a lot of respects...like they're conforming to one overarching standard, yet I dislike the personality and behavior of the standard...does that make the slightest bit of sense?).

I don't think you're beyond hope though...far from it. It sounds, to me, like you have a low self esteem in relationship matters, and that has embittered you a bit towards your prospects of relationships. If that's indeed the case...right there with you.

I don't think it's fair to yourself to consider yourself to be likely outright instantly rejected, nor do I think that it'd be necessary to get someone drunk before anything were to happen. I think it's important to see the good in yourself and the qualities you bring to the table. Focusing on the despair of past relationship failures is a self defeating thing, and a powerful one at that...believe me, I should know. The past is the past...simply because things have not gone well in past relationships does not destroy your chances in the future. It's just important for you to be able to lift yourself out of the disappointment that past rejections have incurred and find in yourself the confidence to continue to be "on the market" undaunted. Let those who've spurned you go...if they've rejected you, it is their loss. They've potentially given up a great thing because they're too dense to get to know you. You're better off without someone like that.

Don't let them get you down...it seems as though the rejection of the past has hurt your esteem greatly (signaled to me by your saying things like you'd be rejected as even a FWB). They've lost out...not you. You're better off with someone who'll love you for you, not for simple lust. If that requires you to wait, I'd tell you you're better off in the long run...that wait sucks, God knows it sucks, but that's at least what I tell myself.

I don't know if I was of much help, but I did at least want to share in that I do understand what you're going through, and you're not alone. Don't give up hope. You only really truly "lose" when that happens. As long as you're willing to keep trying, things are bound to happen.

Many hugs,
Harley

I am .....I'm so glad u continued to post this thread. I am sorry you feel the way you do. I think that you are very hard on yourself. I can totally understand how you feel. I to have zero self esteem.

God didn't make us all beauty queens ya know. The majority us us ladies are a size 12 or above. Models are a size 0 to 3. So that makes most of us overweight.

When I found my H, I had given up looking. I had decided it was the single life for me. Then my H cam along. And he was done with girls, like I was done with guys. Let me tell u I was not the prettiest girl around. I had a bubble butt and no boobs and acne so bad it would scare Freddy Crouger. But ya know my H was not looking for a model, he was looking for a friend.

I am not real affectionate. In fact I hate physical affection,i'm not talking sex, I mean holding hands, hugs, kissing, that kinda stuff. I was self absorbed with my horses and gave my H little attention. We have been married for 19 years. I'm still no babe, in fact I look like I ate several skinny girls. I'm no skinny chick, but my H still loves me, or so he says.

The world is full of folks who are happy to have someone who is not perfect. I have a friend who has slight downs syndrome, she has gotten married. There is someone who here at PC that has found a mate for life. He has no legs and is wheel chair bound. There are people out there who just want a friend, and you are one of them. Surely there are others who just want a friend. The whole world is not taken and you the only one who is single. As you get older u will realize that looks fade and it is what is in your heart that attracts a man and vice versa. Someone will come your way one day, and if not then it is there loss. Find something you do love and give your heart to it. I used to show horses, I gave my heart and soul to it. I don't show anymore but I still have a horse and he still has my heart. After almost 20 years of marriage I am still not touchy feelie. I have oodles of issues. I am closer to my animals then I am to my H. He gets that and most days he understands and has become accustomed to it.

If u need another female who is not a model please don't hesitate to give me a PM.

I'm not uncomfortable around guys in any other way than in a sexual way (or if I feel like they're not a safe person to be around or something) and we always have WAY more common interests than girls. In fact, women don't mind me around but I have almost nothing in common with them and always feel like the odd one out if I'm just around women. So, basically it would make more sense for me to hang out around guys, but it's the guys that don't want me around anymore than necessary or they don't bother telling me.

And I am attractive looking even though I'm still a size 10 (size 13 in juniors as I wear a lot of juniors clothes) but I'm just more of a "guy" in personality and mannerisms and such. Apparently I look and act really gay (I would consider myself bi or polysexual so there's some truth to that) so guys may just think I'm gay and not bother hanging out with me because guys only hang out with girls they want to sleep with, at least while they're still single.

Or it could very well be because I'm not a size zero…I remember in undergrad a girl with a similar personality to me who was naturally very skinny and everyone paid attention to her and I didn't even exist because I was probably a size 14 at that point. I'm not sure my body could even get that small without an eating disorder…but even then, I have big bones and muscles so even though based on my non-existent hips I could probably fit into a much smaller size, my thighs keep me in a size 10. And my arms, shoulders, back, chest etc., make it difficult to wear women's shirts. I prefer men's clothes (especially in the past) because I could never find any shirt that my chest would fit in that wouldn't be huge at my waist. I wear more effeminate clothes now, but I miss wearing guy's jeans.

Anyway, despite having what I assume would be considered a big chest, I hate it and generally wear sports bras and shirts that cover my whole chest. Mainly from the shame that even if I wear a proper bra and a low-cut top, still no one will notice that I have large breasts…so I must be really hideous in some way for that to happen. I guess I must be more attractive the more I hide my body so I guess I'll continue to do that.

It's either that or everyone assumes I can't possibly be single so no one even bothers trying with me…or I'm terrifyingly intimidating somehow. If I approach a guy though, he gets put off….kind of like, how dare a girl approach a guy?! But then they complain if girls don't approach them, so I don't know what guys want.

Or it's because I'm nothing like what a girl should be at my age or any age. I've tried to be more girly, but there's only so far I can go. Even with make-up, I prefer the more "masculine" thick dark eyeliner to say, softer colors.

So, in summary, guys either think I'm a lesbian, are terrified of me, don't think I'm skinny enough to be friends with, I'm too masculine, or think it's impossible for me to be single (which I guess means I'm TOO attractive to hang out with).

And since relationships are apparently off limits to me, I want to actually experiment for once in my life and really figure out my sexuality. But why is it that I'm the only girl that a sober guy wouldn't mess around with? That's what I don't understand. Why is it that online everyone will say I'm SOOOO attractive and I'll even get compliments in real life…but they have to be drunk to want anything to do with me. Why lie to me? Why not just keep telling me that I'm ugly like they used to or here's a thought…not say anything at all?

Well, if you want to experiment, I'm in little position to input one way or the other...it's not something I've ever had experience with, either personally or advising in. If you're bi, well then great! Find you. The only thing I could possibly input is that (and with all due respect...I mean this in no intended offense or ignorance to your sexuality. Please, don't take it that way). if you choose to experiment, make sure you're doing so for the right reasons. Other than that, nothing wrong with that, I say.

I do though still maintain that there is someone out there for everyone. I don't think finding a guy is impossible for you...or even unlikely. There could be any number of things...perhaps it's the guys you're hanging around with? A sort of compatibility mismatch on your part vs a group of guys, vs compatibility with all guys? Perhaps (and again, please know I mean absolutely no offense) your feelings of despair towards your prospects towards relationships is subtly affecting your interactions with guys? It could be any number of things. I maintain though that patience pays off...it's hard advice to give, and I could stand to take it myself. But I refuse to accept the notion that someone is completely unmarketable...anyone. You yourself have acknowledged the positive in you. You think you're pretty, you're (from what I remember from previous posts) a talented musician (which is awesome in itself...congrats ), you've got a sense of humor (Patrick and the mayonnaise exchange brings back fond memories), and you're, as I said in the topic I'm drawing my memories from,you're YOU. Someone is bound to find value in the fact you're not trying to be something that you aren't...it's admirable. Don't lose hope. I still stand by that.

I don't know if I'm being of much help, truly, and for that I apologize. But I can't bear to sit idly by and watch you lose hope. That is ultimately my main point...you only preclude yourself to the possibility of a relationship if you lose hope, and give in to despair and defeat.

Many hugs, and with hope I was of some help,
Harley

I just want to know what negative features of myself that I should be working on. I mean, I used to be ugly and too overweight and now I'm not. I mean, I could stand to lose a little more weight, but I wouldn't consider myself fat. It's just tough when you have next to no hips because unless you have zero stomach, you always look fatter than you are. But, I've changed my hair color/hair care, improved my make-up skills and somehow my face has magically become something that doesn't need a lot of make-up. So I fixed my looks. I also used to be a jerk to all the guys because that was literally the only way to get them to not make fun of me and to actually listen to me. They always acted like I was completely worthless in every way and I had to make sure they knew they would regret messing with me. I'm not mean like that anymore…unless I need to stand up for myself of course.

So I've fixed what I saw was my main problems and yet it hasn't helped at all. I don't know what else needs to be fixed or if I can even fix it. And that's depressing because now I don't even know what's so awful about me when before I did.

I just want to feel like I can ask a guy to mess around without being laughed at or something. I don't even know how to ask something like that anyway…I mean ideally, this would happen in a long-term relationship, but if I wait for that, I could be waiting my entire life.

And it's just hurtful that ANY other girl seems to be able to just ask any guy and they'll say yes. And yet here I am, better than most of these guys are ever going to get and I get a no in the most disrespectful manner possible. In some cases I deserved that, but not in all cases.

I think being myself is what drives people away…especially guys. Probably because some guys feel emasculated by me because I'm just as much if not more the knight in shining armor rather than the princess, if that makes sense. It just feels that overall that guys just forget that I'm female on a subconscious level. So I guess if the guy's straight he couldn't be attracted to me? I can't help my gender and that my gender doesn't quite match my biological sex. I don't know.

Well, it sounds like the guys you've had experiences with are, if you'll pardon my language...mostly ********. People like that will be like that just because they can...they've got unrealistic standards, typically (the 1% of people that are what we're "supposed" to look like are the only people they'll even glance at), and the women they get are, in my experience, not what you want to be. You're not losing anything in those people, and I would tell you not to let them jade you towards your own prospects.

With that in mind, I'm doubtful if there's anything really "wrong" with you. If someone is going to decline you for whatever reason, it is common decency to do so with a modicum of respect. If they're being so callous as you describe, I'd say it's them, not you. You're better off without people like that.

As far as waiting your entire life goes, even I don't recommend you wait to that extreme...yes, I do think it's beneficial to wait for someone you're truly compatible with, but the extreme of that is having such high standards that you end up isolating yourself. To that regard, I turn it over to you with a question...what is it you want out of a guy? What's your "ideal" guy, in a manner of speaking? I might be able to offer a little more with that.

I do hope I am of help, and let me be the first to say happy New Year!

Hugs,
Harley

I'm just looking for someone who I feel safe around, even if we were alone.
Someone who'll actually listens to me.
Someone who's a musician, either professionally or who is in academia. This isn't limiting by the way since the vast majority of musicians I know are married to other musicians. It's extremely difficult to have a relationship with a non-musician because they don't understand how much time is spent practicing, rehearsing, etc. And if you marry another musician, then you'll either end up playing together and/or teaching together so you do get to spend some time together.

Other than that…I guess I would want someone who doesn't start fights/arguments for no reason and constantly fight with me. And other normal things like they don't hit me, make fun of me, etc.

Well, those are all certainly extremely reasonable requests. Does your locale have an active music community that you could mingle with a bit?

Expanding a bit on that, with such a relatively simple list of desires out of a partner and naturally assuming you will be giving your partner the same courtesies in kind, I don't think you'd have much difficulty in maintaining a relationship. But, given your problem is starting step...hmm....

For my benefit, what's your strategy, so to speak, for meeting guys? Meaning in a typical situation, where is it that you would be to meet people?

When I was in school, I'd meet them in classes or ensembles (I plan on going back next Fall, so I'll have that anyway). Otherwise, the guy I've met since then was in an ensemble. My friends were talking about hosting a singles night for me and the handful of single people left in the area. They haven't done it yet, but it wasn't that long ago that we talked about it. The problem with that would be I would be unlikely to meet someone who is a musician. But anyway, those are the places to meet people. I guess it's good I'm going back to school. I get one more chance. Although when I don't meet someone in the next 3 years, I'm not sure what I'll do.

I guess I'll get a blowup doll…I'm joking…sort of….

School is a huge plus. Hopefully your school is a lot less...lol well, lame, in setting up social events than my own.

Don't look at it as "one more chance." Think of it as an additional opportunity. The singles night would be fantastic...have you brought it up recently? Not that long ago you said, I know, but maybe a passing remark on your end might remind them you're still interested?

Speaking of friends, do they know your struggle with relationships? Have you spoken to any of them about it? They might be able to help you out...from simply listening to maybe even taking an active role in helping you find someone. Your specifications aren't too hard to meet, I shouldn't think...I think they can potentially be a great source of help.

Well, I usually don't go to social events…mainly because the practice rooms are empty and at this point I wouldn't be able to eat at any of them because of my diet and then I would just be standing around doing nothing. And, empty practice rooms are too tempting…

How is it any more than one more chance though? This will be the last time I'll be at a university as a student rather than a professor (hopefully). I mean, as it is, most of the students would be off limits anyway. Especially if I get to teach my own class(es). Besides, undergrads don't want anything to do with grad students. And almost all the grad students are married. So, really it'll be 3 more years of crushes that I can't do anything about.

I haven't mentioned the singles night again because it's been the holidays and I'm not 100% sure I'll be totally behind the idea. My friends in that group (even though they are really new and haven't known me for too long) do know I have problems, especially with touch and people being in my personal space. And that I have an easier time in smaller to mid-sized groups than large groups. It's just difficult to find an activity to do that wouldn't make me feel more anxious than I already would. I mean, I feel anxious just thinking about it…

I also sort of have a feeling that there may have been an occasional guy who did like me but wouldn't say anything and I'm not sure why. Is it normal for a guy to be constantly telling his mom about me and being sad that I was graduating? And to constantly be teasing me when he was around me. It wasn't in a mean way but it annoyed me to the point that one time I would have smacked him in the face if I didn't have a phobia of touching other people. My mom was the one who overheard his mom talking about me and I asked my mom if that meant that he liked me and she didn't reply. I guess she thought I was joking? He's probably graduating this year anyway...

Well, why not give some of the social things a chance? Have a friend or two come along with you...if things aren't going well or if you aren't having a good time (or both), you at least have them to fall back on. Couldn't hurt, right? Barring the practice rooms, anyway.

I say it as another opportunity because that's how I see it. You can't be certain that you next three years at college are it, you know? There's life after college, and that doesn't occur in a vacuum. Who knows who you could meet?

As far as the guy who didn't say anything, we can be shy too. He may've feared rejection...his behavior sounds a little flirty, and confiding in the mom is, speaking for myself and applying it here, pretty much a sure fired crush. Of course, if his behavior annoys you I would tell you to address that, but...what are your thoughts on him?

But I'd tell you when you have the sense for that occasional guy...look into it! We can be just as shy and just as fearful of rejection as anyone else. You might be relieving a huge load off their shoulders by making the first move if you suspect they like you, as they know by you asking that you've an interest and they can drop the fear.

I've gone to social things in my year off from school, but I'm always the only single person there. In life after college, everyone is taken, except for the one guy I went on a date with and then he stopped talking with me. And to go to social things at school with friends, I'd have to make friends first. I think there may still be people there back when I was getting my Masters, but I may be limited in my interactions with just other graduate students and possibly faculty (maybe just doctoral students and faculty) because undergrads aren't really going to want to be around me…they sort of didn't want to be around me when I was getting my Masters.

So basically, who can I meet? Married people, people with partners, and single people who are single because they don't want to be in a relationship (or they would be) or single people not interested in my gender. I mean, it's weird not to be married out of undergrad let alone being single and getting a doctorate.

And the guy that tended to annoy me…I never really saw a relationship there but maybe friends with benefits. But I'll probably make myself look like a moron if I mention something to him because guys get mad if the girl makes the first move, plus if he doesn't like me or doesn't want to admit it then I look bad.

I've only had one positive response to me saying something first…and we sort of ended up friends kind of with benefits. And that's when I was 15. I give plenty of indication that I like them, I would just expect that if they like me for them to at least continue talking to me instead of just ignoring me all of a sudden. And no guy I actually ask can ever tell me the truth. "Oh sure I'll go out with you." means "Just kidding!" and "I'm not interested in dating anyone right now." means "I'm interested in dating anyone but you and I will have a girlfriend within the week that I'll show off to you and make sure you feel like the fool you really are for saying you liked me in the first place." Happens every single time.

I missed the window of time where everyone gets married…so I guess I just wait until someone get divorced or something?

At this point I have to settle for a friend with benefits from a younger undergrad guy, but I'm sure they'll think I'm too old for them because I'll be 26 when school starts. What 18-20 year old wants to be with a 26 year old? And what kind of monster do I look like?

I simply give up.

I am so sorry you're feeling thia way. My scars are so bad that I used to warn men about them. The looks on their faces are burned into my memory. Rejection is so painful.

The best things happen when you're not looking for them. Maybe focus on yourself and then the right thing will fall in your lap.

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I've never really been looking for someone (at least not for several years), I just unfortunately I meet people and end up with a crush on them. I feel like I've focused on myself so much in my life that I don't know how to focus on someone else. But I'm not someone who can ever have a relationship since I need bonding and emotional intimacy too much and bond too quickly.

It's good to know that it's really true that I'll be rejected because of scars. If I ever sex in my life with a guy I'll make sure they've been drinking and it's dark.

Maybe life is trying to tell me that I need to marry my job and that I won't have the kind of connection, intimacy, and physical closeness with an actual person? It's not like I ever have before.

Is it possible to just get a fwb and get the physical curiosity taken care of? So I can move on with my life? Or will it be too difficult for someone who bonds too easily to not become too emotionally close to someone like that?

Now, I didn't say ALL men will reject you for your scars. Some will. This is a tough pill to swallow, I know.

When I met my boyfriend, he took me home the first night I met him and I warned him about the cuts on my legs. He embraced me anyway. He loves me knowing that my scars are a part of me. You will find this. It is a rough trek, I had to kiss so many frogs to find my prince. I know there's someone for you too.


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I wouldn't be able to handle rejection. I'm still thinking alcohol and no light would be the best idea. Guys have no interest in me sexually without alcohol anyway.

I can't handle rejection. It wouldn't be worth all self-harm and possible suicide attempts going through that.

Would someone who isn't committing to you (fwb) be less or more concerned about scars? Or does it matter?

FWB's I've had in the past used to say things like I shouldn't do that, but they were mainly ignored. Even when they were fresh cuts he didn't turn me down. You have to find someone who is worthy of that kind of connection or the FWB thing can be very detrimental.

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I may not have much of a choice. I'm afraid I wouldn't even be able to talk a guy into that without paying him in some way. Or the only guys who would do anything relatively sober and without payment, they'll probably still make fun of the way I look and probably won't respect my boundaries—as in I still want to stay technically a virgin.

I just worry that I'll get too attached…I mean, I can develop feelings for someone if they're just nice to me (since a guy being nice to me has been rare for most of my life) and paying even a little attention to me.

But if I keep waiting until I'm in a relationship, I'll be waiting my whole life and I feel more and more humiliated being a complete virgin, having never gone past kissing. And sadly, I have more degrees than times I've kissed someone. Not people I've kissed, times I've kissed. All my friends are married or are in long term relationships. And the ten year anniversary of the last time I was kissed is coming up way too soon. I can't handle that. This is the single biggest contributor to my depression and the only one where there's no hope. Even if I have a good date with someone and they want to spend more time with me, they don't! Even with me pushing for it. If he didn't like me, why lie and make me feel like there was finally a shred of hope in my life. Now he won't even look at me. I know he probably thinks I'm a freak (in a bad way), but it's difficult not to bond closely when you finally feel comfortable around a guy. This almost never happens. And the times it does, they're mainly married guys. I was trying so hard not to self-harm because of him, but it was bothering me so much that I did some damage to my arms, left arm in particular. And scars that aren't going to fade in a reasonable time.

And here I thought I was pretty and not too terribly fat. I've even had compliments. What I want to know is why no one likes me enough to even try to get to know me?

I realize that I'm obsessed with the idea of sex/intimacy and I have been since I was a teen. Its been weighing on me more and more for years. And I feel like kicking myself for not going along with the opportunities to have sex that I had as an undergrad. I just thought that I'd be in a relationship someday and I didn't want to have sex with some random person that I wasn't attracted to or really interested in. So it seemed like the right choice at the time, but now I'm not so sure.

And couple the obsession with anxiety having to do with touch and discomfort with sex becoming "real" I'm not sure I can explain that. I obsess about it and think about it all the time (so it's a fantasy and not real) but anything that shows that it's a real thing (like say seeing a condom with I'm not expecting it) can send me into a catatonic state and I can just freeze and lose time. So does that mean I'm only obsessed with the fantasy and I'm not actually interested in actually having sex? And how do you satisfy a fantasy? I find porn repetitive and boring.