Would love to hear other folks input on how they deal with being triggered and the subsequent fallout afterward.

How many friends are left in the wake?

Has it caused job loss?

Has a relationship ended over the PTSD outbursts?

What do you do to make amends? Do you even try to make amends?

Do you continue on as if nothing happened hoping that ppl will forget your behaviours and actions and words? In this case does that meas that if someone attempts to discuss this with you that you'll become angry and would rather end the friendship than face the reality of having been in a triggered state and reacted in a hurtful fashion to those you care about?

Just some ponderings about how triggered I used to be and what triggers I deal with now.

I feel badly for those who are not able yet to apologize to those they've hurt because they are stuck in a place where apologizing is superficial lacking sincerity. Most folks who have PTSD from childhood abuse/neglect learned to apologize and people please early on and their apologies in my experience are merely another coping mech. that is automatic and not hitting the internal stuff. LIke saying sorry when you're not even aware of what you're saying you're sorry for. PTSD is NOT an excuse for behaviour however it can explain some rather atrocious behaviour by those we love.

zh,
Great post! Makes me think, as I've just recently been diagnosed with PTSD from my childhood.

I have lost a friend over my trigger of how she treated her son. She wasn't physically abusive but emotionally abusive. Since I seem to be triggered by either one (physical or emotional abuse)-- when it comes to children-- I lost my temper and ended our friendship.

Having just realized about triggers and how it affects me- I haven't figured out how to make amends yet. Even in public with a stranger, I sometimes end up making a scene when I feel a physically weaker being (human or animal) is at risk of potential harm-- I usually cause more damage to the whole situation due to my intense triggered feelings--leading to reaction. When I've made a scene (which by the way is unusual for me- quiet and shy) I try to "disappear" from the area as fast as I can- realizing that I was out of line but not ready yet to admit it!!

I do want to work on being able to address a situation which would trigger me- in a less hostile manner. --- Not sure how though?!!

You mentioned "How triggered I used to be"-- have you been able to not be triggered by somethings now? If so-- that must be somewhat of a relief-- I'm glad for you.
I agree, taking responsiblity for our actions is very important.

Wish you well,
Mandy

[wisewoman]

_zh what a timely post. I had an experience a few weeks ago that I know I made phone calls and left voice messages for supers after a horribly upsetting day. I don't remember what I said in the voice mails. I think that I just said I was very upset and dissappointed with how they handled a meeting. But I don't remember the calls and It was a big reaction. They did not have to deal with the fall out, they had to deal with real feelings. Actually, they haven't dealt with it yet.

[(JD)]

The fact that one realizes, even after the fact, that they have been triggered is progress in itself! It took me years to realize this, that I was being triggered and dissociative over things that related to my injury.

A few times of late I have been able to realize that I am being triggered WHILE it's happening, and if it's anger I'm feeling (like over the incompetence of cashiers etc) I have been able to verbalize it to them: I'm not angry at you, I'm having a tough day.

Yes, my entire family left me. All my friends disappeared because they can not STILL understand PTSD. My two sons and spouse left, each separately, saying "I can't live with YOUR disability." My friends left because they didn't understand, and also could not live with my pain and the treatment I was receiving. Oh well. One has returned, and I wonder if at times it because of her own guilt of leaving, and not a real understanding. I take her friendship just as well!

My psychologist continues to explain to me that he explains PTSD to his patients' families all the time: these are ppl who LIVE with those who have PTSD, the families that SEE and maybe FEEL the effects on the patient, and STILL do not understand... what hope do I have of those who haven't a clue to begin with of understanding?
SInce I have very few constant contacts with anyone in particular, I have learned to not bother with explanations for the most part. It happens. Whatever it is, it happens, and I am not to "blame" for it, therefore I don't owe any apologies. If someone whose path crosses mine chooses to share how I might have negatively affected them, I am more than happy to to share my sadness of the hurt with them. I can try and explain the automaticity of it all. I can't expect them to understand such a beast as PTSD. (For really, it is part of their problem if they have given me such power to hurt them. It is part of their need for improvement if they allow one of my negative experiences to influence how happy they are... understand?)

Sky,
I've taken a few days to reply as I'm not sure just how to say it and hope I'm not hijacking the thread-- I don't believe I am, as my inquiry to you is about taking responsiblity.

You wrote: it is part of their problem if they have given me such power to hurt them. It is part of their need for improvement if they allow one of my negative experiences to influence how happy they are... understand?

Are you saying if someone gets hurt by our triggers we're not at fault? How is it if someone is hurt - and they then become the victim - so to speak-- it's the victims fault?? I think if I've hurt someone then I own the responsiblity of that -- for what ever reason I did it.

I'm just trying to understand what you mean. My mom has mental illness issues and has hurt me a lot and it's always my fault- according to her-- that I'm hurt. I just think the person that is hurt deserves an apology if the wrong-doer really cares about that person.

Does this make sense?? I don't know, maybe I'm just confused... kind of new to this whole psychological thing and it's overwhelming sometimes. For years I denied everything and felt nothing- except when triggered-- and then I didn't understand -- why in the world I acted like I did!!

Mandy

i saw something here that i have to comment on. my oldest was addicted to heroin for 7 years. i took her to the ranch and it took 2-1/2 years, but she got clean. she was dying when i took her there. we were together 24/7 and we shared alot...lately she has started saying things that she knows triggers intense pain to me and then she says it's my fault that it bothers me. that really hurts me. i don't know how to deal with it. i have so much on my plate right now and she's adding to it...any suggestions?

[Fuzzybear]

((((((((((((((Pat)))))))))))))))

Pat,
I'm so sorry for what you're going through- it's tough when the people you care so much about hurt you.

My T. had been working with me on communicating to my mom how she makes me feel when she says things that trigger me-- but-- my mom is never wrong so that pretty much flopped.
On to Plan B--- don't know if this is a good idea but he has now suggested that I distance myself from her. It is very hard though, as I'm the only one within 450 miles of her and she is elderly. I am making an effort to not be there at her every beckoned call- it's very hard, but just lately I've felt a wee bit of empowerment from it too. Hope that doesn't sound silly... ....

Don't know if you can distance yourself in anyway from your daughter and let her know why you are doing that. If you can, perhaps that would get her attention?!?!-- just a suggestion.
I do hope you can get her to understand how you feel-- it's so hard to be hurt by the ones we love.

Mandy

sorry about your mom....it hurts if you get the strength to tell someone how you feel and they still won't admit they might be a reason you're hurting.
my daughter is always right..makes no difference what she's said or what i did. when i babysit for her, she's been getting angry because i haven't straightened her house and done her dishes...i can't do both. Stella is a year old and walking and i play with her and watch her...i don't like to be up later than 9 on the nights before i work the next day. i have to get up at 4:45 a.m. so lately she's been late from class and that puts me to bed much later than i'd like. we had a huge blowup over that and i haven't spoken to her since Wednesday p.m. i'm planning on a move soon and although i'll really miss Stella, it will be a huge relief to not having her expecting me to be at her beck and call....thanks, thanks, thanks. pat

[krzyk101]

Hi, Zh

I am going to do my best to answer the questions asked.

The question of how many friends have I left in the Wake? I am not really sure on this one. I am not one who has ever really in my life had very many TRUE friends to say. Mostly those from the past were included in my trauma's and contributed over time to my PTSD in one form or another. Mostly I to date I only have a few friends in 3D and those people in 3D are not close friends, I do not have any close friends at the present, even when I try and talk to those considered to be the 'closest' of my friends I feel afterwards distressed and worried I have said or acted the wrong way with no arguments or raising of voices.

Job Loss? Yes, I was mis diagnosed as being Chronic Paranoid Schizophrenia in the early '90's going on disibility and living in group homes.

Of the friendships ending of Outbursts of PTSD, they were in my best interest looking back can't think of anyone who I was friends with that were really TRUE friends in the so called former friendships. Most of them had towards me just as many if not more outbursts than I did and it was really a good thing for both parties to end the friendship all together as it in my experience did take two in order for all the arguments and such. I would say it was not my or their faults either way it was a combination of the two put together.

As far as making any ammends, those who I did have or see as being friends all did their part in hurting me as well as them possibly being hurt emotionally. I barely remember these or hardly any of them so I can not apologize for things triggered me if I am unable to remember what they were and what things during the time we were together.

I am unable to remember daily the events of the day as it is. Strangers to me may approach me at say a store and tell me "hello" and even call me by my first name. I have no idea in my mind who these people or person is or are. I at times just return the 'Hello" try to avoid then the rest of the day wonder who they were, where I should know them from and How am I supposed to know them and from when and where.

I suppose if I was triggered and a person approached me, as I am already triggered by thousands of things of most I am not aware, and the hundreds of situations and traumas come in to play , the flashbacks and nightmares at present the traumas do not connnect and as I have no honest memory if I did or not hurt people I can not apologize for the PTSD especially the most of which I do not understand and for things may or may not have said that were hurtful to others those of which I have no memory or have no ability to recall the situation to have even existed in itself. I can not be something I am not.

I believe that in combination with my other MI and Disorders that the PTSD which I know nothing really much about as just beginning to work on.

As far as an Excuse, I really do not think for myself to be an excuse of my behaviour, most of which is only involved within myself and not directed in a hurtful way. I feel bad if I realize I have hurt someone's feelings in the moment and usually apologize and try to bring myself back to the present and then work on it from there. Past that I do not use my PTSD symptoms as an excuse, only the cause of my acting the way I do and some of the things I might say or do. Along with the rest of my disorders and illness' it only contributes to my behaviour as I never go out and intenenally say or do things hurtfull to other people intentally.

I have a long way to go in order to manage and only expect of myself to maintaing my disorders and know I will never be who I once was again and in the same never totally recover from my disorders entirely.

In my therapy I am working on Maintaining symptoms to not for them to progress as many have done so over the years. So in the past is the past I hope those I May have hurt can understand and in the present I try to stay and do my best and to maintain

[(JD)]

Understanding the nature of PTSD requires that you NOT take such "responsibility" to heart as many here suggest.

While it is NOT in any way psychosis, would you have the same sentiment from someone who is, say, psychotic? Is it because you understand psychosis as something that the person just does not have any control over from time to time???

PTSD can cause responses that are not controlled. When someone with PTSD verbally strikes out because of a trigger, they don't do it because they thought about it, they don't do it because they want to attack.. etc it is automatic... it happens BEFORE thought. It isn't a choice.

Yes, part of the deep relearning required for improvement with PTSD is trying to retrain the brain to THINK before acting.

If someone is "hurt" in the general sense, by someone with PTSD being triggered, the responsibility imo lies with the disorder. If someone allows another, at any time, to make them feel like a victim, then it is the victim's viewpoint that needs to be changed, the "victim" needs therapy to counter their vulnerability. Anyone who becomes such a "victim" needs help in finding out the facts... in remembering what truth is... (That they are a worthwhile human being, that nothing someone else SAYS actually physically hurts another etc.)

Please take this on the deeper level it is. I know it is easier to say hey, if you hurt someone you are at fault. I'm trying to help others realize, first, there might not be ANY "fault" at all. Second, it's never ONLY one person's views at play in any relationship.

[obsids]

I think Sky is very correct in the whole concept of NOT taking responsibility for your actions when triggered. It is a tricky thing. I find myself apologizing endlessly for things that I did reflexively or sometimes for things that I cannot even recall. The result is that I am really hard on myself, and it makes my self-esteem plunge even lower than it already is.

Those who know me well, know that I 'react' sometimes. They know that I will get through the initial reaction and regain my control. I do have some awareness of my triggering, and I am slowly learning to control the duration of the reactions.

But am I making any sense? Those who know me, know to give me space and time. To everyone else, I continue to apologize on and on. I spend a lot of time by myself. I have restricted the amount of time I spend online and tuned into the news... and that seems to reduce my overall stress level. So I try to do all I can to minimize the likelyhood of triggery.

But as Sky is saying, I have PTSD, therefore I trigger. It is about as controlable as keeping your knee from jerking when the doc hits your reflex spot on your kneecap. Of course I will try my best to mop up the damage.

[CedarS]

I've been thinking more on this post, it's growing on me. At first I read it and determined it somehow did not fit my own immediate experience, as I do not lash out when triggered.

But, I just now realized that I've certainly dealt with folks who do have outbursts, who do maybe later say sorry but don't really mean it, don't yet have the depth of understanding.

And what I'm thinking on is how to protect and care for myself more. See, I usually would excuse folks for their poor behavior. I might not even challenge it, I'd remind myself of their dx and history and excuse everything.

But I'd then be leaving myself in the lurch, I'm abandoning myself in a fashion. I'm not listening to my intuition, to the voice within that tells me to get away, to draw good boundaries.

Also, if I do ever lash out, hopefully I will pay good attention, even if what I learn about myself is mighty uncomfortable. And I plan to not just cover everything up with a blithe reminder to all who got hit by me that I should not be held accountable cause I have PTSD.

Somehow there must be a way to balance out being held accountable, and also to be understood in the context of our PTSD.

Sarah

[(JD)]

Yes, we all wish for more control PRIOR to any "lashing out" at anyone. The problem is, until we are able to "pay good attention"... it just doesn't happen. </font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
And I plan to not just cover everything up with a blithe reminder to all who got hit by me that I should not be held accountable cause I have PTSD.

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post"> If I were able to "plan" this, then certainly I might be very much responsible. Thinking we're covering something with a blanket excuse denotes being inconsiderate and self centered in a negative way, don't you think?

With someone with say, Alzheimer's, who has blasts of rage... does one hold them just as accountable as a true to form "brat" who doesn't give a hang about anyone's feelings? I think there is a big difference there. I wouldn't demand they constantly apologize and take it to heart that they are a bad person for using alzheimer's as an excuse. Do you follow what I mean?

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
Somehow there must be a way to balance out being held accountable, and also to be understood in the context of our PTSD.

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post"> I agree... what I tried to express is something more towards this, in that, for someone with PTSD to not take it all to heart as being "responsible" like it's something controllable, something we have planned, or irresponsibly allow despite other ppl's feelings. We own too much of the reactions. Is there some way to not take full responsibility without being irresponsible? I think so.

[(JD)]

Another thought... this thread has pretty much focused on the "lashing out" aspect of being triggered. We have plenty of other reactions to being triggered, reactions that we have to deal with also... sometimes alone.
i.e.
My trigger of an impending storm can make me very hyper (as in hyper vigilant) and I make impetuous decisions, thinking I am thinking about it completely. Not.

Or, perhaps the same event can cause me to withdraw and feel hopeless about life, because I am controlled by outside forces.

When I am triggered like either of the above, I can either agree to help with projects in the future I really am unable to do, or neglect calling ppl or making it to appointments I need to... etc.

I can't follow myself constantly making excuses to those in my wake of being triggered. Even if it isn't a violent or upsetting outburst... My entire life would be left to apologizing and feeling incapable of meshing into public life.

[CedarS]

I'm pretty wiped out, so not gonna be able to give an indepth adequate response here. Appreciate though the thoughtfulness and attention you are giving these themes.

It's possible that we just see things different, which is cool. Or I might be lost in the semantics of the words and not hearing things correctly.

A thought I have on these themes is that I hope to figure out more ways to live responsibly, without defining that as meaning that I somehow beat myself up.

((((Sky))))

[SleepsWithButterFlies]

Well here is another area I am odd in. I do not have outbursts and the only time I mess things up is with anxiety. Like if I have an attack and have to leave somewhere..I always apologize to anyone I am with and hope they stay while I freak in the john or outdoors. Like once, I went to an AC/DC concert and just freaked..anxiety......so I told the dude I was with to stay and I went and sat in the lobby area then outside. I told him I was sorry later and explained it was anxiety. Thats what I do. I have lost jobs due to anxiety.

[Schatze]

My outbursts can and usually turn violent and therefore I must take responsibility for my actions or I will become a terrorist. Just as I want the man who caused my PTSD to take responsibility for his terrorizing actions, I must take responsibility for mine and not hide behind 'being a victim' or I will continue to cause harm to others. I can't live with causing harm to others, regardless of what has been done to me....I'm just not built that way.

I always apologize profusely after an outburst and genuinely mean it. But I also make myself understand that it is inappropriate behavior against others and it has to stop. I'm HURTING PEOPLE in so many ways and it can't go on....must stop. I will never stop trying to find a way to stop. It's my fault and I take responsibility.

Missi

Wow Missi!!!

I couldn't agree with you more!! I too take responsibility for my actions and hold others responsible as well. If we don't take responsibility there is no room to learn and grow- IMO. And besides, if we inturn act out abusively, when does it EVER end?? I decided to stop the momentum of abuse with me!

You said it all so well---- thank you!!

Mandy

[(JD)]

my point (as made I thought) is how we should not internalize these feelings! These horrible feelings that make you say it is your FAULT... nevermind no one understands I mean this for your good... I mean well.

[Schatze]

I know you mean well Sky. My post was only from my personal perspective as it relates to my personal situation....everyone with PTSD has such differing circumstances.

When it comes to my healing I don't think I'll ever fully heal unless I admit my behavior is wrong, take responsibility for it, and try to fix it. Who knows...I'll probably still be trying to beat the crap out of my husband (he's such a good and understanding man) a year from now, but I can't stop trying to quit these violent outbursts.

Much love to you Sky and 2b1better. And thank you 2b1better for your 'outburst' of beautiful support...which I hope you take responsibility for.
Missi

[Schatze]

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
I decided to stop the momentum of abuse with me!

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">

You summed it up in a nut shell!!

Missi

[(JD)]

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
I feel badly for those who are not able yet to apologize to those they've hurt because they are stuck in a place where apologizing is superficial lacking sincerity. Most folks who have PTSD from childhood abuse/neglect learned to apologize and people please early on and their apologies in my experience are merely another coping mech. that is automatic and not hitting the internal stuff. LIke saying sorry when you're not even aware of what you're saying you're sorry for. PTSD is NOT an excuse for behaviour however it can explain some rather atrocious behaviour by those we love.
__zh

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
When it comes to my healing I don't think I'll ever fully heal unless I admit my behavior is wrong, take responsibility for it, and try to fix it.

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">

I'm still wondering how this behavior ( of having ptsd sypmtomology0 is considered "wrong."

Why does it need an "excuse?"

And, isn't this exactly what members here who do not have PTSD, and thus cannot fully understand it (unless they have become official experts imo) are expecting from others who display the symptoms of PTSD? The membership at large expects 1) big apologies and 2) some agreement to stop doing this.

[Schatze]

Hmmmmm. I'm not sure Sky. For me, taking responsibility is part of my personal healing process. I may be being naive, but I don't want to be affected by PTSD the rest of my life. I certainly don't want those I love to be affected by it. I hope some day it will be a distant memory and I'll never give up hope until I'm satisfied with my life and PTSD.

Please understand that I've only recently been diagnosed with PTSD so this is all very new to me. I was almost 40 when I was terrorized (probably too strong of a word but it's how I feel right now) so I believe I have a great advantage towards healing than someone else might who was dx with PTSD as a child. I can't imagine how a child could possibly cope with this, it just breaks my heart. I do know that if I continue to have outbursts my own children could become terrorized and I can't let that happen...I am responsible for them. If my outbursts affect them negatively then I have to take responsbility for that as they are my responsibility.

Does any of this make sense? I have really enjoyed this thread...itza makin' me think. Excellent topic and discussion by all. It's interesting to see everyone's views on this delicate subject.

((((((((((((((((((((((((hugz to everyone posting here)))))))))))))))))))))))

[(JD)]

Well, I was um over 20? hehehe when my industrial accident occurred... and my PTSD due to the inaction and improper actions of the authorities... but it doesn't seem to help me heal.

I guess your being "recent" is making it easier to heal, and that your brain hasn't had plenty of time to "miss-file" additional information (thus it's "limited" to your family?)

I am so hyper-vigilant that there are more things that are triggers than are not.

I respect your newness to this. My main concern is that ppl with PTSD not take on more responsibility than is due... it's not like you are doing this as a planned, malicious response, you kn