Stopping the Emails

Notme9,

What you said about grieving the loss. . .I think that's what i'm afraid to admit or do. I don't "want" to think that my mom didn't love me deeply or take care of me when i was hurting. I want to figure out some kind of answer or reason why she didn't, like that somehow I'm just misunderstanding things, or it was my fault. I can't acknowledge that she actually chose not to respond to my pain. I can't "go there." The pain is all pushed down inside me, and i don't want to see it or feel it. It would hurt too much. I keep wanting to pretend it wasn't bad, that it was good, and that somehow i am just seeing it wrongly or am crazy.

It hurts less to believe i am seeing things wrong, and that she wasn't neglectful. . .than to find out i'm right and acknowledge the pain that is inside me. I don't want it to be true. I want to think that the pain in me is wrong, is misplaced, or doesn't belong there. That it's there for "no good reason."

Notme,

I forgot to comment on the other part of your post. Yes, i can see how my choosing to stop emailing could help me feel more in control of what happens to me. . .rather than being the one to wait and hope, and then feel bad when i don't get a reply. It does sort of put the power onto my t and i'm at her mercy.

The idea of not emailing hurts, because i feel it as a withdrawal of something that i actually need. But emailing and not getting a reply hurts too. Either way, it feels like withdrawal, like a needing and going without. A calling out, and no reply.

It reminds me of times as a little girl when my mom would send me to bed and tell me she'd come up and tuck me in soon. And I'd wait. And wait. And call down the stairs, "Mom! Mom! Come tuck me in!" And the waiting felt endless. And one day, by the time she came upstairs to tuck me in, i was sobbing and heartbroken because i felt like if i had to call her and call her to get her to do it, she must not love me or want to. I don't know how old i was. Maybe 4-ish.

I felt the need for my mom so strongly. But i never felt like she wanted to be a mom or like she found pleasure in it. She did all the main things that were required. I had food, shelter, and clothing. But i didn't feel deeply loved. I felt like i was just. . .there.

My aunt told me one time that the reason my mom went back to work when i was 11 months old was because "she was bored at home." I was 11 months old, and my sister had just turned 2. And my mom was bored being with us. That just breaks my heart.

My mom is probably knitting a sweater for orphans right now.

Something is too weird.

I feel like I'm in the twilight zone.

How can this be true? How can my mom go out of her way to help other people but not me?

That's why i feel that there must be something very wrong or bad about me.

It doesn't make sense any other way.

I don't understand at all. . .

Can anybody here give me a believable alternate explanation as to how it can be possible that i have a mom that does charity work, etc., but ignores my emotional needs completely? Because really, i don't have an explanation that makes sense. It doesn't fit. And that is why i always go back to blaming myself. That is why i think there must be some good reason why she didn't/doesn't show empathy/concern for my struggles. What could i have done for my mom to not want to help me? I always thought that maternal bonding was built it. Most mothers i know would put their lives at risk to protect their kids. Is it normal that when i told my mom that my neighbor put his hands down my pants, that she and my dad just said, "Don't go over and visit him anymore" and let the matter drop? Does it make sense that when i was hospitalized for feeling suicidal that neither one of my parents ever mentioned it? Yet my mom plays piano for the nursing home and knits sweaters for orphans and is the president of the women's club at her church. She's "all that" and more. It makes me feel that there is something terribly wrong with me that she would let me suffer alone with things.

Please help me understand how this is possible, and how it "isn't" my fault. Because i keep coming back to the idea that it must be something wrong with ME.

I always try to be kind and respectful of my parents. I don't accuse or yell or call them names. I don't criticize them. And I've only ever talked to them a couple of brief times about things in childhood that hurt me, trying even then not to sound blaming.

I've tried to be a good daughter.

I've never been arrested. Never been in jail. I've never stolen. I try never to lie. I've never asked to borrow money from them. I graduated high school and have worked full-time since I was 18. I've been married 27 years. I think i've been fairly responsible. So why does my dad think i am lazy and that i haven't made anything out of my life? Why am i not good enough to be loved?

I've got to leave PC for a bit. I'm getting too upset and need to get hold of myself. Especially since i don't want to spiral and have to contact my t.

Peaches, your parents are what Joyce Meyers called "irregular people". They just don't even see what they have done, AND they aren't going to change. They couldn't nurture you and support you because of THEIR pathology, NOT YOURS. Nothing you could have done would have made things any different. That's just the way they are. Stop trying to make their behavior about you. It's not. Their behavior is totally about themselves (thus the reason your t calls them narcissistic). Beat this into your head. You can't change them. Nothing you do will change them. They are what they are. AND what they are has NOTHING to do with you.

((((peaches))))

I can feel your pain, and I'm sending you some support.

I don't know if this will help you, but it helped me come to terms with a mother who seemed to be a loving mom on the surface, but was never there for me emotionally.

I denied it. It must be me, not her.
I was furious. How dare she.
I was heartbroken. How can I not be 'good enough'?
I found compassion. She must be struggling herself. Maybe she was neglected as a child.

I finally landed at a place where I think of my mother as being sick. Much like an alcoholic, the addiction rules the mind. My mother does love me, but because of her sickness she is unable to see how her behavior is not loving.

Whenever my mind gets to the 'exploding point' of 'I cannot comprehend how this can be', I remind myself that an addict is sick, and sickness is not logical. Somehow this is comforting to me.

Please be kind and gentle with yourself.

Peaches, your mom is probably dead inside just like my mom is. My mom wasn't a mean Narcissist either. She could never hurt anyone on purpose. She hurt me by omission not commission. This is what happens to Narcissists, they become dead inside because the pain that they experienced while growing up was too much so they just cut off everything in order to survive.

My mom is cheerful too.........

As soon as you told me about her playing the piano at the nursing home I just knew that it was about her and not about the people living there. If she did it for the people living there she would have gotten that woman some help.

She is dead inside...............

I know you are taking a little break right now, but I will respond anyway. First of all.... it IS'NT your fault!!! Your mother isn't a bad person, but still grossly neglected your emotional needs all your life. Try not to minimize that or blame yourself. Your mother has severe limits emotionally and that seems to be due to her own issues and not you or your sister.

When you describe these incidents from your childhood, it struck me how much she reminds me of the mother in that old movie "ordinary people". Do you remember that movie? The oldest son dies on a boat trip and the younger son survives. The mother, played by Mary Tyler Moore is unable to deal with emotions. She does happy and "perfect" but doesn't do anything complicated or messy. Totally ignores the needs of her surviving son. Even resents him for having those needs. (not saying your mom does that) She also is only concerned about "appearances"

Peaches, people sometimes do things for others out of selfishness or "appearances". Maybe your mom knits sweaters for orphans because it makes her look good in the eyes of others, and not really because she cares about the orphans. I mean, that is probably also why she ignored the old lady who needed help and went to play piano (where her generosity is more obvious to all). Even if she was emotionally unable to help the lady in the moment, she could have went to get a nurse to help her...it seems that she was not really concerned and even ignored pleas for help. That is huge Peaches!! And very sad. I hope you shared this with your T...I think it is so important! I understand how hard it is to see fault with your mother and how it is less painful to blame yourself.

Also, when you talked about waiting and waiting for your mom to come and tuck you in, and how you felt that she must not have really wanted to do that....that reminds me of what happened between you and your T when she finally offered you the hug after all those times you told her that you needed and wanted a hug. you thought your T must not really want to hug you, that she was just doing it because you hounded her. Do you see the connection?

I agree with TayQuincy. It is all about her and not about you in any way- as a child.

I've figured out (with much help from T.) that it is the mother's insecurity and has NOTHING to do with how I was as a wee little one-- that so depended and deserved love.

It was never ever your fault.
You deserved unconditional love just as much as any child that ever existed.
Think about it-- would you ever be the way your mother was?? I bet not--- because you don't have such insecurities. She is damaged and it has affected you in ways that are oh so difficult to deal with.

Like I said to Perpetuallysad-- I found much understanding and healing in the book-- "Will I Ever Be Good Enough, healing the daughters of narcissistic mothers" by Dr. Karyl McBride. (Dr. McBride was also a daughter of a narcissistic mother, so she understands first hand, and in the book she tells of various clients and how things were with their mothers-- I bet you will find your situation in some of these people)
The book is in three parts-- 1) Recognizing the Problem 2) How Narcissistic mothering affects your entire life and 3)Ending the legacy

well if you are around--- I hope you see how it's so not anything you did or didn't do and that you may find peace within your own beautiful self.

fins

(((((Peaches)))) Im just catching up here. Your mom, as a narcisist, cares little about the people at the nursing home and probably cared little (though maybe some) about your inner life and feelings. If it was something that made her uncomfortable or something that required action or empathy on her part, she ignored it. She didnt feel that it was her respoonsibility. She doesnt seem to have the empathy it takes to want to help where help is needed. And that attitude probably included you. It was too messy for her to be concerned with the neighbor or your hospitalizato- even it it was her own child. Her concern is herself and keeping the status quo for herself.

I had a mother who also was a leader and won all kinds of awards. She was the center of attention and loved it. It was more important than her children or anything else. The attention she got from others. She could NOT see anything from another person's point of view and if their point of view/problem hit her in the face,she turned her face.

Nothing has ever been terribly wrong with you. You grew up the child of a narcisist. Where her world and how she behaves is so vague and subtle (and sometimes not so subtle) that it is all deniable. Everyone loves her because on the outside it looks like she is saying and doing the right things. They dont see what you see.

(((((Peaches))))) I grew up this way, too. I hope you come back to PC soon. Read aobut narcissitic mothers on the internet. Google "Narcissistic Mother article by Chris" and I think a good article should come up. It describes the mother you are describing here.

Your mom sounds very wounded and broken. That is NOT your fault.

Peaches, your mom sounds similar to mine. She was such a good caretaker to everyone else, except her own kids.
My friends loved her. Our church adored her. I longed to be loved as much as the sick andhomejound she cared for. I longed to be listened to like my friends were. I wanted just a piece of love that she gave so freely. Instead I got the hitting, screaming, and worse. Stuff no one else got.

I'm sorry you had a mom like that. I'm sorry you weren't loved like you deserved to be. You deserved more v

Hi Bluemoon,

I'm sorry to hear your mom had NPD. I don't think my mom qualifies for the diagnosis. I don't think she intends to be hurtful. She just seems truly like she is totally unaware and doesn't notice when she's being selfish or failing to consider others' feelings. If she knew how i was feeling about her, she would probably feel bad about it. But I don't think it would be a good idea for me to tell her. It would probably hurt her feelings more than it would change anything. In fact, it might make her more distant if i did that. I know that, as much as i feel pain about some of the things they did when raising me, i still love them and wouldn't want to damage the relationship further.

I've done a little bit of grieving, although i go back and forth between doing that and convincing myself that it wasn't that bad and there is nothing to grieve about. . .that maybe i am/was just too sensitive and have made a big deal about nothing.

Hi Treehouse,

Yes, the BIG EMPTY SPACE. . .it scares me to recognize that it's there because I'm afraid nothing can fill it up completely. In some ways, i have hoped t could fill it and make the pain be gone. Or mother figures i've had in the past. But I don't know if anything can.

Lately, i've wondered if maybe i could fill up the empty space with several people instead of one. I know i need to find a way to fill up the empty space with my own self too. I am religious and know God cares too. My t once had me imagine everyone in my life that was supportive/strengthening in a big protective circle around me. I thought of them as encircling me with God hovering above the top. Sometimes it helps. The cavern just seems so big and bottomless. I'd rather not be aware of it at all because when i pay attention to it, it hurts.

(((((((((peaches))))))))))

My mom is very open with me about the fact that the reason she does things for other people (when she does) is to make HERSELF look good. She wants to get recognition for being the best, the most important, the most giving, the most helpful. She also did a lot of volunteer work when i was little, while in the meantime beating me and emotionally abusing me in every way possible.

BLAH. it's painful. but that's one possible explanation.

Hi Rainbow,

No, I've never told my mom that she hurts my feelings. I honestly don't know how it would turn out, but my gut feeling is that it wouldn't help, and that maybe it would make things worse.

I wish grieving for what i didn't have wasn't so threatening/scary/painful. I've tried to think that what happened wasn't bad or didn't happen the way i remember. Or that I was/am just too sensitive and it was no big deal. If i could convince myself of that, then i could say that the empty hole and the pain are not there/not real/not justified. I hate thinking that my parents might have been neglectful and not loved me the way i needed them to.

Maybe one mistake i'm making is in comparing my mom to myself. When i think of some of the things my parents did, i know i would never, EVER have responded the way they did. So it is just very hard for me to understand why they did certain things.

Like when i got SA by my neighbor, I would have confronted that man hands down, no doubt whatsoever. I would have called my daughter's friends' parents too, to let them know of the danger. I would have wanted to make sure my daughter wasn't emotionally/mentally harmed by what happened. I would never have just said "Well, don't go over there anymore" and then dropped the whole thing.

I just don't understand that. It's hard for me to believe that any parents who did that really loved their child. So when i think about it, it scares me that perhaps they didn't really love me.

But maybe I'm wrong.

Well it could be that they didn't love you THE WAY you needed to be loved. They loved you in their own way perhaps... but that maybe didn't quite cover it right for you.
Some people love in the way they know of love-- not in the way the child needs love. This can be confusing to the grown child that tries to understand the relationship of adult child/parent.

It can be confusing to compare ones probable actions to those of a parent from the past. You didn't have their childhood and they didn't have yours. Different minds from different backgrounds.
I often wondered why my mother did nothing and told me to keep quiet about the neighbor boy that held me for hours with a gun to my back. I thought I'd be shot and never see my puppy again.... or play in the dirt again.... had nightmares afterwards(of which I was yelled at to go back to bed when I sought comfort at my parents bedside)... and yet mother said to just forget about it.... ..... I felt unvalued...... scared... confused..... I wonder if that's what you felt? like you didn't matter as much as you hoped you would?

I think any parent that puts their feelings and experiences above what a child is needing is a bit on the narcissistic side (IMO).... maybe your mom isn't full blown but it seems she does have traits.... and like Dr. McBride says-- even those traits in a mother can leave some damage in a little girl.

fins

Hi Flora Poste,

It sounds like your mom, even though she was controlling, was very dependent on you emotionally. It was good that you had the courage to take a stand when you needed to, even if it meant moving far away. By doing that, it seems like your relationship with her improved. Do you think that she respected you for doing what you needed to do, rather than allowing her to control you? Or maybe she missed you so much after you moved, she realized she'd better appreciate you more and stop trying to control your life!

Although my mom never acted outwardly needy toward me, I've recently begun wondering if she privately resented my attempts to separate from her and pursue friendships in childhood. My father said something a couple of years back about how "strongly" I separated from my mom, I forget the words he used. Also, there was a time a few years ago, when i told my mom i recalled crying and being very upset as a child when she went on her business trips. She responded, "Well, you never seemed very interested in being around me or talking to me when i was home, I thought it wouldn't matter." I was floored to hear her say that. I don't recall not wanting to be around her as a young elementary school child. What i remember is wanting her to stay home, and getting very upset and sad when she was leaving town and when my parents frequently left us with babysitters! I even worried about them when they went out at night, not wanting to go to sleep until i knew they were back home safe.

It was only when i became a teenager that i began making an intentional choice to spend time with my friends rather than stay at home. But even then, it wasn't a rejection of my parents (at least i didn't mean it to be). I just preferred being around my friends. My parents let me decide what i wanted to do, so i assumed it was OK to go with my friends instead of hanging around with them. But based on those two comments above, I've started wondering if my mom resented me for it. Maybe she felt that my friends were more important to me than she was? If so, it could explain why she didn't stand up for me when my dad picked on and ridiculed me. Of course, I'm just grasping at straws here. There's no way to know for sure. It makes me sad to think that my choice to be with my friends may have caused a big rift in our relationship. I certainly didn't pick up on it at the time. Had i known she actually felt bad about not spending more time with me, I probably would have gone with my friends less and spent more time with her. But i recall feeling that it didn't matter to them either way.

I've tried to figure out what about her childhood may have made her the way she is today. She was not raised in an abusive home. She was the youngest of her siblings and had 4 sisters, who were all quite a bit older than she was. One of her older sisters was actually her school teacher for a time. Being the youngest, she would not have had any experience with raising any younger brothers or sisters, and i don't remember her ever mentioning that she'd ever even babysat for anyone. My guess is that she may have gotten alot of attention growing up, and that she came to expect that as an adult too. But by the age of 20, she had two babies that needed paying attention to and caring for. I don't think she had the skills for it, and may actually have not wanted to do it (we were both accidents).

My mom told me once that she didn't eat well when she was pregnant with me. I asked her if she had alot of morning sickness, and she said No. So that makes me wonder if she was, in fact, depressed that she was pregnant again. My sister was 4 months old when she got pregnant with me, and she said she didn't think she could get pregnant while she was nursing. So i may have come along as an unhappy accident.

Peaches, this rings true for me in many ways. My experience was similar. But I've never really doubted that my parents love me. They just handled the situation very badly. They just didn't know any different at the time, but they weren't out to hurt me. I can forgive them for that. They didn't intend to cause me pain even though how they handled things has caused me pain. It wasn't about a lack of love; it was just a poor parenting decision. As a parent now, I hope I never make such a drastic mistake, but if I do, I know it won't be because I didn't love my children. Maybe you can separate their poor decision from it being an indication of their love for you. They aren't necessarily the same thing.

Acceptance about what really went on and who your mom really is would be helpful I think.

Exactly, my mom was a "nice" Narcissist.

Exactly again. This happens to these types of people because they don't have the "hardware" developed to detect and respond to these types of things. This is why it is called a personality disorder.

Except these types are unable to "hear" or "see" this kind of stuff because they don't have the hardware developed.

Maybe this is what is keeping you stuck? You would rather keep what you have, as painful as it is, rather than take a chance and rock any boat? How could it get worse? I don't think that your mother would abandon you? I think that all the work that you need to do is in your own head. I can just about guarantee that your mother will never change. No matter what you change in your head and in your responses to her she will continue on as the cheerful, clueless lady. Whatever you do will not affect her. She most very likely has boundaries of steel. The outside world cannot affect her ever. I have learned these things from watching my mother for over 40 years.

And maybe this is why you feel paralyzed right where you are? You don't want to move right or left?

Hi Purplefins,

What you said about emailing with your former psychologist. . .and the email being something that kept you from developing enough trust. . .that struck me as really significant. I wonder if email is having a similar effect on me.

I've been with my t for several years (too embarrassed to say how many), and it has been frustrating to us both that it has been so hard for me to drop my guard and trust her enough to do trauma work. I'm still so quick to misunderstand and misinterpret what she says as though she is trying to hurt me.

I've also had a pattern where when i do open up and get vulnerable with her in a good connected way, then i become afraid of connection/rejection and pull back.

I also have always used email to say the things i am too scared to say face to face in my session.

Last week, she wanted me to look at her and admit to her that she'd hurt my feelings by something she did. (I had told her in email.) And, you know. . . I just couldn't do it. I couldn't look at her and get the words out. Just doing that felt too scary/vulnerable.

So I am wondering if email is actually holding me back from developing more trust in my t because it keeps me from having to do some of the more scary/deep stuff. Not to mention how awful it feels when she can't reply. And also how often i misunderstand her responses. Thanks for sharing your experience with me.

This past week, i struggled hard not to email at all, and finally only sent a short one saying, "Trying not to email. But it's hard. Feel like crying." She replied, "I'm so sorry it feels that way."

On Wednesday we talked about email on our session. I told her it hurts not to email because it feels like "going without" a need, like a painful withholding. She told me that even so, it seems that it is even more painful for me to email her and have to wait hours for a response. So again this week, until my session, my goal is not to send any. It's hard. It has been such a pattern and need for me throughout my therapy.