[darkrunner]

...and so she doesn't treat me as a victim.

She knows I was vicimized, but she said she doesn't understand why I have LET that 'contaiminate' the rest of my life, and why I haven't CHOSEN to keep that part 'contained'

So I was a little frustrated. I told her I felt like I was being accused and blamed for not doing better. I told her that I still felt like a helpless victim, so when she says I LET my life be contaminated, and that I could CHOOSE to accept it and move on, inside I am saying, But I can't!!!
It hurts too much!!

So I had this realization last night, and now I wonder, is it GOOD for my therapy that she doesn't see me as a victim? Because that means she will push me harder, and not let me make excuses and waste time?

Or will it be bad for my therapy, because aren't T's supposed to 'meet us where we are' and accept that and start from there....
Your thoughts?

[Sannah]

I agree with you. It's like she has wishful thinking or something and like she doesn't understand the whole process that gets people to this point.

Have you been seeing her for very long? Do you have other options?

[sunrise]

I think it can be empowering if someone doesn't see us as a victim. It can help us change our own views and gain more self confidence and a more positive (realistic?) self image. It can be helpful to have someone see a positive quality in ourselves (that you are a survivor) rather than a negative (that you are a victim).

However, it can also be hurtful if someone doesn't recognize the pain we have been through and still feel. I think sometimes words such as "victim" can get in the way of the work we do in therapy and in our lives. Maybe it is not so important to use that word. Maybe a good focus is to address the pain you are in. How can your T help you work through that pain? Is it from trauma? Have you spoken about the most painful memories with her? Have you done EMDR or any other trauma therapies (if appropriate)?

I had a bit of the opposite problem in therapy. I would not use the word "abuse" to describe what I had been through. I would tell my T things, very difficult things from my past, and he would use the "abuse" word, and it would make me shut down. "Don't call it abuse," I would say. He wanted to know why not, and I said because it if was abuse, then that makes me a victim. I didn't see myself as a victim and I didn't want to and I felt if I accepted that I had been abused then that made me a victim. We went round and round on this, and T had to work hard to get me to see that I didn't have to be a victim just because I was abused so it was OK to admit I had experienced abuse. It's still a hard concept for me, and I can easily revert to my old thinking.

Anyway, I know that is not your situation, darkrunner, but the part that is similar is that T and I were getting really hung up on words. Rather than focusing on the word, can you focus on the feelings and behaviors you want to change, express, etc.? Don't get into arguments with your T about whether you are a victim or not. Address the feelings that accompany that (pain, fear, resentment, etc.) and how they are affecting your life.

[Sannah]

Originally Posted by darkrunner

why I have LET that 'contaiminate' the rest of my life,

why I haven't CHOSEN to keep that part 'contained'

I could CHOOSE to accept it and move on

Are these pretty much her exact words?

[lastyearisblank]

Oh, that's so frustrating. Who wants to be "treated like a victim"... I agree that your therapist may have your interest at heart but I would still talk to her about this. Terminology does matter, maybe moreso in this case. It is important for her and you to be able to agree what you are talking about when you talk about experiences....

[WePow]

Darkrunner, I can understand what you are expressing.
That was a big part of my own healing.
And because my T is also a survivor of abuse, I knew he was not disregarding my pain or minimalizing the events.

One day he pulled out "the triangle"

http://www.lynneforrest.com/html/the...of_victim.html

That helped me to move past seeing myself as a victim and into the role of survivor.

Hope this helps! And good job on your attitude toward healing!

Words can be SO powerful.

While I was telling my story, T never used the words for what happened. He let me call it whatever I needed to call it to get the story out. So, it was "the stuff that happened when I was little" or "the stuff with my mom". We have gradually begin using the actual terminology for the events, and it does shift things in my head a little bit. I guess because the words make it sound more REAL. So. I do think words have a lot of power.

If I were in your place, I think I would need a lot of clarification from T as to what he meant. I would want to understand exactly where he was coming from. Does he mean "oh my gosh, cut it out already, stop being such a victim" or does he mean "I see a woman sitting here who has the potential to be a powerful survivor". Or something else altogether?

[darkrunner]

Thank you , Sannah and Sunrise.

Originally Posted by Sannah

Have you been seeing her for very long? Do you have other options?

I've been seeing her for almost 2 years. As for other options? Yes and no. There are no other therapists around here that specialize in eating disorders.

Originally Posted by Sannah

Are these pretty much her exact words?

Yes, those were her exact words.

Originally Posted by sunrise

Maybe a good focus is to address the pain you are in. How can your T help you work through that pain? Is it from trauma? Have you spoken about the most painful memories with her? Have you done EMDR or any other trauma therapies (if appropriate)?

Thanks for sharing that, Sunrise. It means a lot to me.
Yes, it was a trauma and because of the circumstances around where it happened and who did it, I lost everything in my life except for my H and my kids......I lost my friends, my job, my church, my faith ,etc. Huge parts of my life are just GONE.

I have talked a little bit in therapy about the trauma. She keeps saying we're going to do trauma processing but she wants me to be more stabilized in terms of my eating disorder so I don't 'crash and burn' with the added stress of the trauma work.

Your suggestion is wise - to focus on the feelings - and I will absolutely take that approach.

[Sannah]

Originally Posted by darkrunner

I have talked a little bit in therapy about the trauma. She keeps saying we're going to do trauma processing but she wants me to be more stabilized in terms of my eating disorder so I don't 'crash and burn' with the added stress of the trauma work.

She shouldn't get the cart before the horse then. If she is choosing to wait to work with you on the traumas then she has to wait for you to heal enough (by working through the traumas) to let go of the feelings of victim then.

[darkrunner]

Just to clarify, she didn't actually say she didn't see my as a victim.

She did actually say: "I don't understand why you are letting it contaminate the rest of your life, and why you don't keep it contained."

That's when I told her that I still feel like a helpless victim, that I can't just 'choose' to contain it.

Lastyearisblank - Yeah I don't want to be treated as a victim, but I get frustrated with people telling me to think positive, and mind over matter, and choose to not allow it to affect you in this way, etc etc. It sounds so easy, but it is not for me.

WePow - thank you for the link. I looked at the triangle and the article and it is interesting. I am going to print it out and read it when I have a bit more time to think about how it applies to my life. I can accept the fact that I am stuck in the 'victim role.'
And I'm not so sure my attitude toward healing is good right now, but thanks for saying that. You're encouragement really helps.

Thanks Treehouse, I agree with you. Words are powerful. I'm the one who brought up the word victim. I think the word she used that had the biggest effect on me is 'CHOOSE' - that I can choose to not allow this to affect my life so much. Is that true? Is it really my choice to make? Because it doesn't feel like it is within my control to make that choice. So I guess it makes me feel like I'm not trying hard enough.

[Sannah]

Originally Posted by darkrunner

I get frustrated with people telling me to think positive, and mind over matter, and choose to not allow it to affect you in this way, etc etc. It sounds so easy, but it is not for me.

I think the word she used that had the biggest effect on me is 'CHOOSE' - that I can choose to not allow this to affect my life so much.

If you could simply just choose why would any of us be in therapy? This power to just choose seems pretty similar to "control" and isn't this what eating disorders are all about anyway? About control....... I thought she was an expert..........

[lastyearisblank]

Yeah I don't want to be treated as a victim, but I get frustrated with people telling me to think positive, and mind over matter, and choose to not allow it to affect you in this way, etc etc. It sounds so easy, but it is not for me.

I agree totally. I think I wasn't clear. I meant it is not like being treated as a victim is some great prize. I think your therapist is setting up some false dichotomy between being a victim and being strong. It's really an issue of compassion..

I just want to add it sounds like you are trying your hardest to make this healiing. But it is ok in my opinion to put some of it on her.

[darkrunner]

Originally Posted by Sannah

She shouldn't get the cart before the horse then. If she is choosing to wait to work with you on the traumas then she has to wait for you to heal enough (by working through the traumas) to let go of the feelings of victim then.

I see your point....that makes a lot of sense.

Originally Posted by Sannah

If you could simply just choose why would any of us be in therapy? This power to just choose seems pretty similar to "control" and isn't this what eating disorders are all about anyway? About control....... I thought she was an expert..........

I get what you're saying here. And now that you are helping me process this a little more, it all seems vaguely (and strangely) familiar, because I think I have been through this with her before. She makes these statements about what I could (should) be doing differently, and I take them as very personal and assume she is saying these things in a judgemental way (maybe projecting my own insecurities and judgements), but she would say she is just throwing things out there to see if they 'stick' - to show me that there are other options. Maybe like, she is working with generalities and I am thinking in terms of specifics.
Or is this just me rationalizing and defending?
I'm not sure, but I think I'm going to collect my thoughts and try to send her an email about it this week.

Originally Posted by lastyearisblank

I agree totally. I think I wasn't clear. I meant it is not like being treated as a victim is some great prize. I think your therapist is setting up some false dichotomy between being a victim and being strong. It's really an issue of compassion..

I just want to add it sounds like you are trying your hardest to make this healiing. But it is ok in my opinion to put some of it on her.

Oh, ok. I see what you meant. That's a really interesting way to put it. So if there is a 'false dichotomy' between being a victim and being strong, then that means it is possible to be a victim and be strong at the same time? But even still, not being able to step out of the victim mindset doesn't necessarily signify a weakness, but just a limitation that is probably temporary, and she should have compassion for where I am?
Thanks for saying that I'm trying hard. Sometimes I feel like I am, and sometime I don't. But it helps to hear you say that.

[Sannah]

Originally Posted by darkrunner

She makes these statements about what I could (should) be doing differently,

but she would say she is just throwing things out there to see if they 'stick' - to show me that there are other options.

I would think that she should have better plans then this...........

I don't think that you are projecting or taking things personal at all. This is your therapy. Whatever she says should be about you.

[lastyearisblank]

not being able to step out of the victim mindset doesn't necessarily signify a weakness, but just a limitation that is probably temporary, and she should have compassion for where I am?

Yeah it is a million times easier to be strong when someone is showing you compassion. I really think this should be an ingredient in therapy. And kindness is a strength. The basic problem of those who lack kindness and hurt others is that they are weak

[elliemay]

Originally Posted by darkrunner

Thanks Treehouse, I agree with you. Words are powerful. I'm the one who brought up the word victim. I think the word she used that had the biggest effect on me is 'CHOOSE' - that I can choose to not allow this to affect my life so much. Is that true? Is it really my choice to make? Because it doesn't feel like it is within my control to make that choice. So I guess it makes me feel like I'm not trying hard enough.

Well, the short answer is "yes" it is your choice to make IMO.

However, IMO, the long (and more truthful) answer is
"It is important to grieve the fact that at one time in your life you were a victim and powerless. You get to mourn that fact because it is awful and tragic and unfair. It takes skills to make that choice come out of that mourning. It takes a while to not only develop those skills, but also the confidence and belief in those skills to sustain and assume ownership of that choice and your life. You get to move forward, fall back, languish where you are, then rise up again."

It is also my opinion that every single time you show up to therapy, think about what occurred in therapy, talk about your life and feelings, that you are making a conscious choice to free yourself. You are already walking that path of healing and choice and it's a long one.

I'm sure you are trying plenty hard.

Perhaps a good place to start asserting your new found freedom from contamination (WTF?) is to tell your therapist that you hear her, and to some degree might agree with her, but nonetheless, it is your desire for her to shut the hell up for the moment and give you some space.

Also IMO.

Okay, I would likely never to that, but I'll tell you, I would think it really really hard.

[darkrunner]

Sannah, I get the sense that you don't think much of my T and I can understand why. You've made some really valid comments and they've been really helpful.

This T was really the only option for me after I left Residential treatment for anorexia 2 summers ago. The T I was seeing before that wouldn't take me back, and there weren't any other T's in my area that worked with eating d/o's and took my insurance. I think she's been really helpful with the eating d/o stuff. The trauma stuff, not so much.

Ellie May - Your post is great. Thank you so much.
I love your 'long and truthful' answer....very eloquently stated. Did you quote that from somewhere, or are those your own words? I agree with it and I need to remember it, and I need to be patient and......I hesitate to even type it.....be gentle with myself. That in itself is hard for me to do. But I think I will print out your post and put it somewhere that I can read it every day.

As for this:

Perhaps a good place to start asserting your new found freedom from contamination (WTF?) is to tell your therapist that you hear her, and to some degree might agree with her, but nonetheless, it is your desire for her to shut the hell up for the moment and give you some space

Funny! I could totally see my T being perfectly ok with me saying that to her. But I could never say it either.
Maybe something similar, though, if I can muster the courage.

I really need to give all of this some serious thought and figure out what the heck I want/need to say to her about it.

[elliemay]

Actually, those are my words. I think they came from some place very deep in me and blurbled out at the words of your therapist.

If they help you in anyway, then I am very grateful for the blurble. I'm continually surprised by what's in there.

I think one of the long term effects of trauma and powerlessness is that we lose our sense of entitlement. I think it's one of the most insidious effects as well. It's like we get dispersed or something. It's hard to consolidate again.

I mean, I'm not talking about "I'm entitled to that fuzzy purse with a toy dog in it" -

I'm talking about the basic entitlements owed us because we are human beings. Respect (for where we are in our healing), responsiveness to our needs when we have them, and, well, kindness, love, sorrow, patience, joy and peace. All of these we get to have.

Alright, I'm working myself up into the "shut the hell up" thing again. Contamination....

Originally Posted by darkrunner

She did actually say: "I don't understand why you are letting it contaminate the rest of your life, and why you don't keep it contained."

That really baffles me. I cannot imagine a therapist saying that and actually thinking it would help you? I would feel like he/she were blaming me for not being able to suck it up and move on! If we could suck it up and move on, therapists may just be out of a job!

[Kacey2]

Originally Posted by darkrunner

...and so she doesn't treat me as a victim.

She knows I was vicimized, but she said she doesn't understand why I have LET that 'contaiminate' the rest of my life, and why I haven't CHOSEN to keep that part 'contained'

So I was a little frustrated. I told her I felt like I was being accused and blamed for not doing better. I told her that I still felt like a helpless victim, so when she says I LET my life be contaminated, and that I could CHOOSE to accept it and move on, inside I am saying, But I can't!!!
It hurts too much!!

So I had this realization last night, and now I wonder, is it GOOD for my therapy that she doesn't see me as a victim? Because that means she will push me harder, and not let me make excuses and waste time?

Or will it be bad for my therapy, because aren't T's supposed to 'meet us where we are' and accept that and start from there....
Your thoughts?

Dark,
Is it possible that it is both/and? If she were to see you as a complete victim would she have hope that change is possible? If she were not able to share in your hurt and pain would she be able to empathize that you were victimized?

I think of it as hastas. I mean hastas do not die for anything. You can forget to water them all season and they will still live. However, if you water and tend to them not only do they bloom but the lovely surprise is that many of them have flowers that appear.

T probably thinks that you have a very hearty and resiliant nature. You have overcome a lot and you work very hard to have a life worth living. i.e taking good care of your children, keeping everything going when the hubby is gone, going to work. And your t needs to remember that hastas need to be cared for in order to thrive. They need to be covered from frost, they do better with partial sun and partial shade, they need to be watered. So maybe we can gather our watering cans and gardening gloves and send them to your t so she can remember that you are special and need care.

[elliemay]

Originally Posted by Squiggle328

That really baffles me. I cannot imagine a therapist saying that and actually thinking it would help you? I would feel like he/she were blaming me for not being able to suck it up and move on! If we could suck it up and move on, therapists may just be out of a job!

My therapist is a great therapist, with a lot of experience treating trauma and abuse cases. He's helped me in my recovery more than I can describe. I have no idea how I forrest gumped my way to him.

I called him midweek one time in a total crisis. He actually DID tell me that I would just have to suck it up, do what I needed to do and it would be okay.

I was soooo angry. BUT, much to my chagrin, he was right. Sometimes learning to "fake it until you make it" is a valuable skill to develop as a short term patch up.

As a long term fix, well, you can't suck it up and fake it forever.

[Sannah]

Yes, ellie, I agree with you, while we are caring and being gentle with someone we do need to say this sometimes for the little things but it shouldn't be our overall strategy. I really like your posts here!

[darkrunner]

I have therapy tomorrow. I've been thinking about this ever since my last appointment and I think I've finally figured out what I want to say to her.

So I am thinking about sending her this email today. I took some of these thoughts word-for-word from this thread.

I'm unsure if it makes sense or if I should send it. I guess part of my hesitation is that I don't really know what to expect her response to be, and I don't know what I *want* it to be.

I am not sure if she is the right T to help me through the trauma work. But I feel stuck because I don't think another T would take me right now because of my eating d/o.

If anyone has any feedback or thoughts, good or bad, I would really appreciate it.

==============================================
Dear T,

I have been thinking about something you said last time we met:
"I don't understand why you are letting this contaminate the rest of your life, and why you haven't chosen to keep that part contained."

I keep wondering how this is different than saying, 'Get over it.'
If I could simply just choose why would I be in therapy?
This power to just choose seems pretty similar to "control" and isn't this what eating disorders are all about anyway?
Isn't there a process of dealing with what happened that will help me get to the point of healing where I can make that choice?

I realize I am pretty stuck right now, and maybe I have been for a while. I understand some of the things I need to do to move forward and that I haven't been willing to try to do these things....my fears are holding me back. I feel like I 'can't' do them, but the reality is that I 'won't' do them.

I can't help but wonder if you're getting frustrated with me, or if you feel like therapy won't be helpful for me until I can get myself to be more 'willing.' But I can't figure out how to be more willing, so things seem kind of hopeless.

So these have been some of my thoughts and I wanted to put them out there ahead of my next appointment because I would like to talk about them and I wasn't sure if I would be able to express them well enough in person.
~darkrunner

[lastyearisblank]

I adore this idea! I really like your email too! This part was the only one that stuck out as not totally necessary

But I can't figure out how to be more willing, so things seem kind of hopeless.

It seemed kind of like you were being invalidating to yourself there, I don't know if that's really true?

((((((((((((((Darkrunner)))))))))))))))

I think sending the e-mail is a great idea...and I think the e-mail you wrote is honest, and expresses very well the confusing place you're at right now.

Sometimes when I know I need to get something out and I'm not sure I'll be able to say it in session for whatever reason, I'll e-mail it to T and ask him to please help me talk about it when I see him. It does help.

As for finding another T....I hope you don't need to, because I know it's such a hard process...but don't write everyone off because of your ED until you talk to them...you never know. Sometimes I think about that other therapist who came to your session once for a consultation, and wonder about him.

(((((((((((darkrunner)))))))))))) I'm glad you're telling T how you really feel.