Would This Hurt Your Feelings?

peaches100 · Apr 28, 2011, 08:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by doogie

Since one of my biggest triggers, like you, is feeling forgotton, etc. - yes - I would be hurt.

Doogie,

Thanks for replying. I'm sorry you have the same trigger. It hurts, I know.

peaches100 · Apr 28, 2011, 09:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ladyjrnlist

Well, I think you are reading too much into it and playing into your issues of feeling forgotten.
On the other hand, she should have brought you one. She could have saved one. The holiday text was her just setting a boundary she felt she needed to set, I think.
Try to shrug it off. Don't bring her a cupcake the next time you make some to get even. Tell her how good they were.

Ladyjrnlist,

I do have a habit of reading into things, very badly! My dad did it all the time to me growing up, and i think i must have picked up the same tendency. What makes it difficult is that, at the time, i don't realize i'm reading into something. I start with a piece of true information, but then the explanation I come up with about that piece of information is false. It seems like it makes perfect sense at the time, but later -- usually after talking to my t about it -- I realize that I've come to wrong conclusions!! The bad thing about it is that by then, i've spent alot of time stewing on it and trying to figure things out -- and usually feeling awful because I've interpreted it in a way that makes me feel unworthy or bad.

Yes, i realized after i thought about it for awhile that the holiday text thing was a boundary, and I should have been OK with that. I get into a mindset sometimes of expecting too much, and then later feeling bad when i realize I've done that.

purple_fins · Apr 28, 2011, 10:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by peaches100

Purplefins,

I've been answering posts in order. It has nothing to do with whether someone agreed with me or not.

Oh dear

my bad.

Im sorry -- it appeared that way,
but I must be mistaken- sorry bout that.

I felt similar to you in the first two years of therapy(I was ever looking for that sign of worthlessness towards me)-- now with T. for over three years,(that is a looong time for me!) I look at her consistancies -- she has been VERY consistant(I NEVER had that before as a child, or as an adult for that matter, with relationships)

I wish you could hold onto the good things about your T. such that they would get you through the bad stuff.........
think that's how some of us survived as wee little ones-- held on to the ever so tiny amount of good stuff.

anyway-- I'm sorry bout my mistake.
hope you can accept my apology.

fins

Sannah · Apr 28, 2011, 12:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by peaches100

Purplefins,

I've been answering posts in order. It has nothing to do with whether someone agreed with me or not.

Hmmm, I'm not sure I believe this........

sittingatwatersedge · Apr 28, 2011, 12:11 PM

I certainly believe it. Peaches usually has an individual response to each person who took the trouble to post for her. I think that's admirable

Sannah · Apr 28, 2011, 12:23 PM

I think that I have posted maybe 4 times - no response.

lastyearisblank · Apr 28, 2011, 12:32 PM

I agree with what Eskielover said that her offering to bring you a matzoh ball (food from her own kitchen and her own culture) is something that you would do for a friend. Feeding people means a lot and depending on the culture it's a very maternal thing- for e.g. my Jewish grandmother loves to feed us!!!!!!! Maybe not something that should be happening in therapy just for that reason.

But peaches I agree it's a bothersome thing, because IMO, she tried to awkwardly, awkwardly cover up forgetting, by pretending she never promised in the first place.

peaches100 · Apr 28, 2011, 01:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sannah

Hmmm, I'm not sure I believe this........

Sannah,

Go back to the beginning of the thread and see for yourself. . .I am answering posts in the order I got them. I may not have replied to each poster in previous threads -- which i feel bad about (sometimes the thread gets away from me). But in this in this thread, I have been making an effort to address each poster in the order i got their posts.

I'd appreciate not being called a liar.

peaches100 · Apr 28, 2011, 01:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VenusHalley

YES

I would be a leetle sad, but not overly hurt. I mean therapist is not your BFF... and I admit I often promise something and forget it (sending postcards from places, bringing people books or stuff).

So don't take it too personally. It was probably huge family gathering for the holiday... she did not do "forget" you intentionally.

It makes it sometimes hard to think that we are not the only one person in someone's life... but it is so. Sometimes it's hard to balance all people in your life too...

Hi VenusHalley,

Yeh, I know she's not my bff or anything. I wonder if I had some close friends, maybe i wouldn't put soooooo much significance on my relationship with t?? I admit I forget things too, i really hate being a space cadet!! So i should make that allowance for other people too. I know my main problem isn't my t, but it's my own feeling of being invisible and not important. If i could root that out, then maybe i wouldn't see rejection everywhere??

peaches100 · Apr 28, 2011, 01:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by farmergirl

This isn't really about your t intentionally hurting you. This is about your old issues coming into play mixed up with a really very innocent current event. You said yourself that she really works hard to make you feel good and take care of you. Sure she will mess up once and a while. Everyone does. Let it go. It wasn't meant to hurt you at all. You have chosen to take it that way.

Farmergirl,

I really hate how the old issues get mixed into current events that way. While I'm in the "throes" of it, it's hard to realize that it's my issues that are causing the problem, and not what t said or did. It's not usually until i talk to my t about it that i see it from a different view. I wonder how I could stop this kind of cycle sooner, before i get so worked up about something? T has enouraged me to try to tap into my logical mind when I get triggered and my emotions start swirling. This is what i am working on between now and my next session.

peaches100 · Apr 28, 2011, 01:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elana05

When we have strong emotions regarding T, even though they are painful, they are opportunities for growth. Sometimes it is the things that seem "little" that make the helpful things to experience in therapy. IMHO nothing is too small. When I first went in to see my therapist I had issues regarding how the shades were drawn in her office. (I like the shades closed but she has plants that get in the way. When she chooses her plants over me, I feel hurt). I am still working on issues with this. These smaller things represent larger things in our lives and by working on these "smaller" things we are really giving ourselves the opportunity to work on the "larger" things. Everything that brings up strong emotion with your T is good to discuss, though again not always easy. That's how I feel about it.

E

Elana05,

I think i know what you're getting at. . .do you mean that the event that gets us upset or hurt might be a small thing -- but it's what that event makes us feel inside that brings up our issues? Like with you wanting the shades drawn and t doesn't do it -- does it remind you of other times in your life when something was really important to you, but the other person just did what they wanted to anyway?

When t says or does something that feels like I'm not important to her, i get physical sensations and emotional pain that hit, and i think, "OW, that hurts! I feel like i don't mean anything to her." It seems that, in the moment, the problem is what t said or did. It doesn't come into my mind that i might be reacting to the past because when t hurts my feelings and I react, I'm not thinking about the past. I just notice the awful emotions and physical sensations I get. This makes it very hard for me to know if my reactions are coming from the past. It's usually not until I notice the same things keep happening over and over and over, and they always cause me to feel unimportant, that I think there must be something more causing my reaction that just what my t says or does.

What i find weird, though, is that when i think about my parents ignoring me, i don't feel the same despair i do when i think t is ignoring me. If my reaction to t isn't truly about t -- but is about my relationship with my parents instead -- then why don't i feel those same awful physical sensations and emotions when i think about what my parents did???

Perna · Apr 28, 2011, 01:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by peaches100

I did email and tell her that i thought she had promised, and that it hurt to know she was only going to give me one if there were leftovers that nobody else wanted.

Passover is a very important Jewish religious/family holiday. I think when she immediately replied and told you she was not working, that she was in the middle of cooking for a family holiday that you may not have picked up on the significance of the holiday to her, that it was a "family" holiday and you are not family?

At that point I would have not emailed her further, would have waited until I saw her again with/without the food but I would not have felt I "deserved" the family's food (no matter what she said or you thought she implied), that I was getting their leftovers, as I am not part of her family? I think it is a heightened idea of "leftovers" you have, based on personal attention you want from your therapist; how do you feel about your own food leftovers after Thanksgiving, say? Do you think of them as "rejects", something "nobody else wanted"? No, we look forward to the turkey sandwiches!

If you are curious about the foods, you can look them up yourself first, ask additional questions about them of your therapist later?

Quote:

Matzah balls are particularly popular during Passover.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matzah_ball

Good luck on getting any "leftovers" in the future :-)

peaches100 · Apr 28, 2011, 02:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sannah

WHen we have unresolved, painful issues they get triggered up. This is an opportunity to work on those unresolved painful issues. It really is possible to work beyond getting triggered.

Sannah,

I do see that there must be painful issues underlying the triggers. What I'm not sure about is how to get those issues resolved. I don't seem to have the triggers happen when i think about similar things that happened in my past (such as feeling ignored by my parents). I do remember intellectually that I often felt discounted and worthless as a child with my parents -- and i know that i was upset about it at the time. But talking to t about it in the present doesn't bring up that old pain for me.

When i talk to t about feeling discounted as a child, I don't feel much of anything. It is as if the experiences are buried too deep for me to reach them. Consequently, if i can't get in touch with those old painful worthless feelings, then it doesn't feel like i have anything concrete to resolve or work through. On the other hand, when t makes me feel rejected or unimportant, then the triggers and emotions go crazy and i can very easily feel them. I think that is why I tend to feel that my reaction is to t, and not rooted in old childhood stuff. . .because i don't "feel" any of that pain toward my parents. But i do feel it with t.

Does that make any sense?

peaches100 · Apr 28, 2011, 02:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brighid

I would feel kinda hurt if in fact, as you mentioned, what you 'heard' her say was she was going to bring you one. But she seemed a bit blunt in response, so it would have hurtmy feelings. Hang in there

Brighid,

Thanks for knowing why it hurt my feelings. I think it was the bluntness of the response, combined with the fact that she offered me something and then didn't follow through, that felt deflating. I would never have asked her for a matzoh ball, and was actually surprised when she said she'd bring me one. But once she said that, i looked forward to it and viewed it as a way t and I could have a nice emotional connection. So when it never happened, i felt disappointed and sad.

peaches100 · Apr 28, 2011, 02:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eskielover

In DBT, it's called radical acceptance. There are just some things in life that we have to accept for what they are.

I understand why you are feeling so bad about this. It is sad that she didn't qualify her statement when she made it initially.....but NOW you know that her implication when she says that she will bring you something is that it only means if there is anything left over. Many times people hold internal implications inside because it's just what they have lived with all their lived & think that because it's always been something that they have realized as their reality, it's not the same for others.

Passover is a huge family celebration....it doesn't surprise me that with her trying to get everything ready for it & focusing on the huge celebration that remembering to save you a matzoh ball was not high on her memory at the time.

I do think that next time she offers to bring you something like that, I would make the comment "you mean, only if there are leftovers!!!!" so that there isn't the misunderstanding the next time since it seems to NOT me something that she is used to qualifying her comments with. Clear communication is very important even for a T because it's the implied things that tend to be the things that hurt others.

Eskielover,

Yes, i understand her implications more now. I think the problem was that when she said she'd bring me something, in her mind it was kind of "iffy." It implied more of a "maybe." But i heard it as something concrete and definite. So i was hurt when she didn't follow through.

But now that this has happened, in the future if she ever offers me something again, i won't become so attached to the outcome (I'm definitely getting it!), or attach more meaning to it than is necessary (I must really be important to her). I'll have to just see it for what it is, a matzoh ball, which i may or may not get to taste.

In a way, though, this new way of viewing it feels sad to me. Once i've stripped all the meaning from it (emotional connection in the t relationship), what's left is just one person giving another person a round ball of dough -- an edible product to satisfy one's physical need. Was there something wrong in viewing the matzoh ball exchange as a potentially connecting experience with t??

Elana05 · Apr 28, 2011, 08:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by peaches100

Elana05,

I think i know what you're getting at. . .do you mean that the event that gets us upset or hurt might be a small thing -- but it's what that event makes us feel inside that brings up our issues? Like with you wanting the shades drawn and t doesn't do it -- does it remind you of other times in your life when something was really important to you, but the other person just did what they wanted to anyway?

When t says or does something that feels like I'm not important to her, i get physical sensations and emotional pain that hit, and i think, "OW, that hurts! I feel like i don't mean anything to her." It seems that, in the moment, the problem is what t said or did. It doesn't come into my mind that i might be reacting to the past because when t hurts my feelings and I react, I'm not thinking about the past. I just notice the awful emotions and physical sensations I get. This makes it very hard for me to know if my reactions are coming from the past. It's usually not until I notice the same things keep happening over and over and over, and they always cause me to feel unimportant, that I think there must be something more causing my reaction that just what my t says or does.

What i find weird, though, is that when i think about my parents ignoring me, i don't feel the same despair i do when i think t is ignoring me. If my reaction to t isn't truly about t -- but is about my relationship with my parents instead -- then why don't i feel those same awful physical sensations and emotions when i think about what my parents did???

That is an interesting question. Do you think it might be a useful one to bring up with your T? (Or maybe you already have).
I can very much relate to what you describe as a physical sensation. When I am triggered, I feel stunned for maybe 3-5 minutes. Then I know I'm in for it. The pain begins like a feeling of someone sitting on my chest, then becomes a dull ache from my lower chest all the way to my throat. Then the pain grows stronger as the hours go by. I am always amazed at the perfect description that someone came up with so long ago - a broken heart. That's exactly what it feels like to me. I don't know if it's cortisol or other stress hormones rushing into action, or some other scientific explanation, but this is when depression is the worst for me because I'd give anything for that feeling to go away. So I know what you mean when you say "OW!"
You describe some sorrowful situations that you experienced, like when your mom and sister kept you out of their discussion at the bookstore. But could it be that maybe you don't exactly remember the other situations that occurred in your family when you were young?
I know I suffered when I was a kid - heck even before I could speak. My parents had blow-out arguments and were divorced by the time I was 3. My mom always drank a lot and I knew she was sad about leaving my dad and moving away. I bring this up because although I can often remember my reactions to her drinking or her feeling sad etc, I don't totally remember the emotions.
... So, actually here is one thought... When we're kids growing up in a tough situation (such as being ignored), we often go into "coping" mode. You simply do the best you can at the time. The emotions are there but they get repressed in order to survive. It isn't until later that the triggers bring with them the emotions that were repressed when we were growing up.
Just a thought...

Sannah · Apr 29, 2011, 09:15 PM

Yeah, you are correct Peaches. I guess I didn't realize how many replies that you get to your threads! I'm being impatient I guess! I'm sorry about my mistake.

Maybe with your parents you just learned what to expect from them so this is why you have a blunted response to their mistreatment but with your T you are more hopeful so you get hurt? I'll bet there is some repression going on too, like Elena explained.

I would just keep trying to access that pain from the past so that you can work through it. You seem to be focusing so much on the present issue that triggers you that you can't focus on the past wounds?

peaches100 · May 03, 2011, 08:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sittingatwatersedge

Peaches I could have written almost every word of this... i hope it helps a little to hear that someone really gets what you are going through, i do get it.

hang on ....

you are working hard, consciously and subconsciously. it's difficult work.

Sittingatwatersedge,

Thanks for recognizing the hard work. It IS hard! I really try to figure things out. I try to understand what's going on with myself. But sometimes I feel contradictory and confusing things. Or, more often than not, i find out i've misinterpreted something my t said or did. I get frustrated with myself because I do try very hard in therapy, and yet i don't seem to make alot of progress in breaking through my dysfunctional patterns. At least i am learning to recognize them. But i know i need to change also.

peaches100 · May 03, 2011, 08:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by granite1

i get this a lot from my T sometimes i dont even know what is right .like i will think she said something and she will say she didnt say anything of the sort.but i dont taqlk much so it is easy to remember what was said unless i am just making things up in my head .she also says i also forget things that she says when i am convinced she never said thwm.crazy making a lot of times in fact most of the time i just let it go and say it is what it is and whatever it is past

Granite,

Those kinds of experiences are so frustrating, aren't they? Because when we hear something different from what our t's say, then either they were lying, they forgot what they said, we forgot what they said, or there is something wrong with our ability to hear and understand. Sometimes there is no way of knowning for sure what happened. I know that i need to believe my t would not lie to me. If i found out she lied to me, i would have a very hard time trusting her in therapy. So usually i decide that either i heard it wrong, or she forgot what she initially said.

peaches100 · May 03, 2011, 08:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by treehouse

Something that's been really hard for me to learn with T is that it's not black and white....I've had a lot of closeness followed by ruptures, too, and I know how painful and confusing it is.

What I'm slowly slowly learning is that T's "misses" don't undo the good things he's done. I'm learning that he can care deeply for me AND make really stupid mistakes that hurt my feelings. One doesn't cancel out the other.

I love my kids SO much, and I would do anything for them. AND I make mistakes. The mistakes I make don't change the caring I feel for them. They don't change how much I love them. I'm just human, and we're together all the time, and I'm going to have a lot of chances to make mistakes.

T told me recently when we had a bunch of painful misses in a row that BECAUSE our relationship is so intimate, because we work SO closely together, there are simply more opportunities for "misses". If I saw him once a month for an hour, we'd probably have less misunderstandings than if I see him every week for 2 1/2 hours, and have lots of contact in between. That doesn't mean there's anything wrong with the level of contact we have...it just means that we have more chances for success AND for mistakes.

What if you think about it this way? I love my T. And I make mistakes in my T relationship. The mistakes I make don't change how I feel about him. I'm just human. T is just human.

I don't know if that helps, because I know it's hard to really OWN that when you're feeling so unsure...it's hard for me too when I'm feeling unsure...but I do think it's the truth.

Treehouse,

What you say makes alot of sense. I DO tend to feel black and white about the therapy relationship, which makes things often feel off kilter. When the ruptures happen, i need to be able to look at the whole picture more. If i can remember all the things she's done that shows she cares, then maybe the hurt I feel from her mistakes will lessen. Also, i know i have made mistakes in the therapy relationship too. T has always been very kind about it, never making me feel bad. I should do the same for her when she makes mistakes. Somehow, it is hard to think logically like this when i am in the middle of an emotional reaction though. It is like the hurt feelings take up my whole consciousness, and the rational part of my mind is just absent. It's like i have an emotional part of my mind, and a rational part. And they don't seem to work together at the same time. I'm not sure why!

I'm so sorry about your kitty!

I've lost pets before and it just really hurts. My sister had to put her 20-year-old kitty to sleep 2 weeks ago also. It's a difficult thing to do. . .

peaches100 · May 10, 2011, 12:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sannah

Peaches, when a person has issues they will be triggered up. Work on the issues that are being triggered up.............

Sannah,

I have been trying to work on the issue of my relationship with my parents as a child and how that affected me. But if you have read my other thread, you will see that trying to discuss and process this issue is too painful for me. I can't tolerate how bad it feels, and it affects me badly afterwards too. I don't get the relief that (supposedly) i am supposed to be feeling by talking about the issue and t validating my feelings. All talking about it does is stir up unmanageable emotions that send me in to a tailspin and wear me out.

I don't undertstand what to do anymore. . .

peaches100 · May 10, 2011, 12:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dizgirl2011

Hey peaches,

*huge hugs* - I understand how it feels to be in a similar position of wanting so much to feel close, accepted and important to my T and then something happening to make me feel so rejected and disappointed and also then somtimes feeling angry about it, then reacting on it and regretting it. I used to do it a lot but I have managed to get it under control a bit more. For me it was part of my Borderline Personality Disorder, I don't know if you also suffer from this or not , and ive had to become aware of reacting in ways that hurt me and trying to accept the reality of the professional relationship which seems almost impossible for me at times. Also it doesn't stop these things happening either.

It does sounds a bit insensitive for your T to say that she feels she can't do anything right for you because really it's not about that, its just that you are sensitive to anything that might be seen as abandonment or perceived rejection.

The issue here isn't really about the matzoh ball and I think we all understand that, it's the fact she let you in personally to her world and offered you a piece of it in the form of this food item. That felt good. Then she ruined this feeling by first answering you in a rather cut manner by text and forgetting to bring you what she said she would - both would easily impact your feeling of importance to her and then to make it worse she made it out that she was only going to give you left overs if there was any which there wasn't. All of this really does send out the wrong message to the client and I really do think it's understandableyou feel hurt.

Possibly to her she didn't think it would be a big deal if you got a matzoh ball or not because it was just for the curiousity of tasting it but as a T I would have thought she would be tuned in to what this type of interaction would mean for a client. I don't think she really understands this.

I think you should leave the emails for now and see if she replies..she may not as she may want to talk about it in person. At the next session prepare what you want to say, maybe explain what you did in your last post and see if she can understand your feelings. It doesn't need to feel like an argument, it's just two people trying to come to a better understanding of one another.

huge huggglesss!!

Hi dizgirl2011,

Re: the borderline personality disorder, i was hospitalized once and the psy diagnosed me as BPD, which was odd, as i never even talked to him personally.

But when i asked my t, she said she didn't use that diagnosis. She has me down as having Complex PTSD, which has features of BPD. Supposedly, if you resolve the PTSD, the BPD symptoms are supposed to go away. But i haven't seen that with myself. I believe i have 4 criteria of BPD, and it takes 5 to have the diagnosis. I don't have some of the common symptoms, such as cutting. But i definitely have the attachment issues, the dysregulated emotions, and the fractured personality component.

I'm over the matzoh ball incident now. But yeah, offering me one felt like she was letting me into a piece of her real life. then when she didn't bring me one, that feeling of connection was taken away. But whatever. I can overlook it. She's done alot of good things for me over time.

Regarding her comment that she feels like nothing she does is ever right, because i react negatively to it, i take the blame for it because i do over-react often and read rejection in where she didn't mean it.

I'm just afraid that we're going in circles and maybe the therapy isn't effective anymore. If i decide to quit therapy, i don't know how i'll ever manage without her. We've worked together over 10 years. But it feels like i'm too hard to help, too much of a pain in the butt, and too reactive to benefit from anything she brings to the table. And I'm getting tired of working so hard and not getting very far.

Sannah · May 10, 2011, 02:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by peaches100

I have been trying to work on the issue of my relationship with my parents as a child and how that affected me. But if you have read my other thread, you will see that trying to discuss and process this issue is too painful for me.

I can't tolerate how bad it feels, and it affects me badly afterwards too.

I don't get the relief that (supposedly) i am supposed to be feeling by talking about the issue and t validating my feelings. All talking about it does is stir up unmanageable emotions that send me in to a tailspin and wear me out.

I don't undertstand what to do anymore. . .

I think that your expectations of how it works aren't accurate. You are not supposed to feel better right away. You have to let those feelings out and it is going to hurt. You need to feel that hurt, THEN it will subside and you can move forward.

You already formed these feelings long ago and you have been carrying them around all of these years where they have been wrecking havoc for you. Let them out. Our bodies were not meant to hold emotions for very long.

I read your other thread and I visualized you as standing at the edge of the pool with your toe dipped in. You have to take the plunge if you ever want to move on with your life in this area.

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