[Nelliecat]

I haven't felt confident enough to be here for a while but T today has made me feel...... I actually don't even know how I feel. Abandoned? Bereft? I just need some support or something.

I disclosed some stuff today about s*x and the way it makes me feel. I can't go into details. CSA was brought up and she has said she now needs to be very careful about touch. No hand holding or hugging like before and now I feel like she's abandoning me too, she doesn't want to touch me. I'm too horrible. I feel alone and just want to stop all this, I want to shutdown. I can't go back to see her next week. I'm completely lost.

[WePow]

wow. Bless your heart!!! I know when I told my T about the CSA stuff, he also did not give me a hug on that day. We had kinda just started the hug thing a bit. It hurt me at a core level.

One of the hardest things I had to do was to go back and face him and talk about it. I let him know that it felt like he had used me to get to the "dirty bits" of my story and then dumped me with no tenderness at all. How it felt the exact same way when the CSA happened where there was tenderness right up until the perp got out of me what he wanted and then there was a physical and emotional pushing me away.

After I explained this, we talked about things and how it was not that way. He just didn't want me to be set up emotionally expecting another authority figure to perp on me. I let him know how his hugs to me were SAFE and I knew that and they healed me at a deep level. Once he saw my point of view, he went back to offering me a hug at the end of session.

I am not sure how your T will respond, but you owe it to yourself to be frank and honest about how all of this makes you feel. It really is a HUGE part of trauma healing.

[SoupDragon]

((((Nelliecat)))) - well done for being so brave to start to share that stuff - I can imagine it must have felt so tough that your T did not hold your hand or touch you. We have to have faith that our T's are professionals and know what they are doing - can you share with her, even by e-mail, how you felt with her saying that and clarify why she said it?

Hugs - Soup xxxx

[anilam]

I think she have done that to protect you.
Some clients don't want to be touched when talking bout SA. You are NOT untouchable. I think it is in Ts guidelines to do that, so you don't feel taken advantage of. However, if you don't mind to be touched (or even wished to be touched), you need to tell her. Remember it is not stg you have done/said she just doesn't want to hurt you again.
Safe hugs.

[mixedup_emotions]

Ouch, I can imagine how hurt you must feel. It is very important that you tell your T how you're feeling. Swallowing this hurt will only cause the pain of it to last longer than it needs to.

My T has a no touch policy. He doesn't even shake your hand....and sometimes I'm grateful for that...and other times, I long for some closeness. But I understand why he has the policy....to keep BOTH of us safe so there is no possible violation of boundaries, misunderstandings, etc.

[pbutton]

I've been thinking about this too. Last time I told T that on some level I know he's safe because I don't freak out when he pats me on the back as I leave.

Then when I left that day he didn't pat me on the back. I can't decide if this is for my own good or what. Maybe he just forgot. Maybe he knows something that I don't.

I should probably bring this up with him, but I doubt that I will. It's kind of a bummer though. I freak out when we have to put a ball under our backs in Pilates.... the fact that I trusted him at that level was pretty cool.

So, as you can see, I have no helpful advice here. I am sorry you are hurting.

[Nelliecat]

Originally Posted by SoupDragon

((((Nelliecat)))) - well done for being so brave to start to share that stuff - I can imagine it must have felt so tough that your T did not hold your hand or touch you. We have to have faith that our T's are professionals and know what they are doing - can you share with her, even by e-mail, how you felt with her saying that and clarify why she said it?

Hugs - Soup xxxx

I can't tell her, I just can't. I feel like I've been hit by a bus. All I want to do is curl up and disappear.

[pbutton]

You're not alone. Now that I've posted about this, I can't stop thinking about it. If I actually get brave enough to mention it to T I'll let you know.

Nelliecat, my T didn't start touching me until after I started talking about the CSA. I had a huge reaction after I left the first the time I talked about it and was just shivering for HOURS. The next time, I told him what happened and he asked if there was anything he could do to help me feel more grounded and stable before I left. I was super hesitant to ask for touch because (1) things he had said made it seem totally off limits, and (2) I think I'm disgusting and no one will ever want to touch me and (3) how weird is it to have to ASK someone to touch you??

Anyway, my heart was pounding, but I slowly just said, "could you touch me, hold my hand . . ." His immediate response was, "May I hug you?" I was like YES! PLEASE PLEASEPLEASEPLEASE hug me! He said that he doesn't offer hugs, generally ever. If someone asks and it seems therapeutic, he does hug. However, with people who have suffered from CSA, he generally never touches beyond a hand on the back if the person had a really tough session. He's male and tall and muscular, and knows that not all women are going to be comfortable with him touching them.

I think your T was trying to look out for your sensitivities, though she did so in a stupid, yucky way. She should have ASKED you if touch bothered you. If touching after talking about s*x was a problem. Maybe if you let her know that touch has a grounding, reassuring effect for you, she will begin touching you again.

[pbutton]

Originally Posted by My kids are cool

However, with people who have suffered from CSA, he generally never touches beyond a hand on the back if the person had a really tough session.

Intellectually I understand this. It is very logical and makes sense for the welfare of the patient. Emotionally it makes me want to fire off a REALLY pissed off email to T, even though he's not the one who said any of this. I feel like it's a giant RIPOFF that other people get something that I don't, all because I have a CSA history. That is incredibly not fair. Other people can get comforted at a different level than CSA survivors do because we have a jacked up history that's not our fault!?!??! That stinks. Grr.

[Nelliecat]

You're all so lovely and I don't want to mislead you. She was the one that brought up CSA although it has been the unsaid 'thing' on my mind for ages too. I get what I suppose are terrible body memories during s*x, i find it frightening, distressing and it makes me feel like I'm a little girl with someone doing something to her that they shouldn't. I get triggered by csa stuff especially if a little girl is involved. But I don't have any concrete memories just this awful blocked feeling surrounding it.

I just want to stop it all and never go back to T. I want to just not exist. Not sui. Just not be here.

[pbutton]

Originally Posted by Nelliecat

You're all so lovely and I don't want to mislead you.

I just want to stop it all and never go back to T. I want to just not exist. Not sui. Just not be here.

Two things:

1) You're not misleading us at all.
2) I TOTALLY get the desire to not exist. I get way that a LOT.

[SoupDragon]

Why are T's more cautious touching (well out of those who do touch) with those who have experienced CSA. If touch is something that is grounding and reassuring for them, then what's wrong with it?

Soup, I have read that many who have experienced CSA are threatened by touch. Frankly, I still don't enjoy being touched by women I don't know (my s*xual abuse was done by a woman). I cannot really imagine having a woman T, but if I did, my guess is that I would not want her to touch me. Ever.

I think many T's err on the side of caution and ASSUME that a CSA will be threatened by touch.

[SoupDragon]

Originally Posted by My kids are cool

Soup, I have read that many who have experienced CSA are threatened by touch. Frankly, I still don't enjoy being touched by women I don't know (my s*xual abuse was done by a woman). I cannot really imagine having a woman T, but if I did, my guess is that I would not want her to touch me. Ever.

I think many T's err on the side of caution and ASSUME that a CSA will be threatened by touch.

Thanks MKAC - yes I can understand that (although I have no memories of CSA I have never let my T touch me - well once his hand brushed mine by accident when we both reached over to get the door handle and that was bad enough).

But Nelliecat said that her T had been using touch before and was now wanting to alter that boundary - I can see how that can be confusing and hurtful. SD

[pbutton]

Originally Posted by SoupDragon

But Nelliecat said that her T had been using touch before and was now wanting to alter that boundary - I can see how that can be confusing and hurtful. SD

I agree. It's very confusing and hurtful. I mean, look at me, I'm generally all purposely ambivalent towards my T, I would never admit to attachment blah blah..... and yet I am now ragingly angry thinking about how he used to pat my back and now he's (maybe) stopped. I can only imagine how this affects people whose first reaction isn't anger. It has got to hurt like hell, because I'm pretty sure that I AM hurt now.

I think I need to add this to my list of things to talk about on Monday. I am finding it impossible to let this go. I am also super-pissed at Nellie's T too. I am an angrybutton this morning.

Right. It's the changing the policy on touch that it is hurtful. Maybe something that was said during the session made the T think that she needed to stop touching.

I made some comment about people in my family constantly touching me and how bothered I was, and my my T, luckily, stopped me and asked me if him touching me on the back when I was leaving bothered me. I said it didn't, and we went on.

Originally Posted by SoupDragon

Why are T's more cautious touching (well out of those who do touch) with those who have experienced CSA. If touch is something that is grounding and reassuring for them, then what's wrong with it?

For some touch is grounding, but for others it can be very triggering. My T will touch me, but he always tells me ahead of time that he is going to. Touch was abusive for me, so his asking is a way of respecting my boundaries and giving me the opportunity to say no if that is what I need to do.

[struggling2]

Originally Posted by Nelliecat

You're all so lovely and I don't want to mislead you. She was the one that brought up CSA although it has been the unsaid 'thing' on my mind for ages too. I get what I suppose are terrible body memories during s*x, i find it frightening, distressing and it makes me feel like I'm a little girl with someone doing something to her that they shouldn't. I get triggered by csa stuff especially if a little girl is involved. But I don't have any concrete memories just this awful blocked feeling surrounding it.

I just want to stop it all and never go back to T. I want to just not exist. Not sui. Just not be here.

ohh Nelliecat, i deal with this EXACT same thing. all of it. My T usually gives me a hug at the end of every session. Always initated by her. And if she doesnt I feel so let down. Im sure I could ask and she would be fine with it, but I dont want to have to ask. I never ask for hugs. I hate even asking my hubby for hugs. I feel needy and weak. *sigh* just wanted to let you know you're not alone

[rainbow8]

Nelliecat, I'm very sorry that your T took away the touching. I agree with those who say to talk to your T about it even if you feel now that you don't want to go back.

When my T took away responding to my emails the way I wanted her to, I was devastated because of how good it was before, when she said she would always answer them in detail. It's awful when a T does something you feel good about and then takes it away!

The touching is relevant to me right now, though it's not about CSA. I think you know my T will hold my hand. It feels safe and normal. Last week I was talking about s*xual fantasies with her hand touching me. I was sure she was going to say she wouldn't hold my hand anymore. But she said she still would so we tried it and I reassured her and myself that it still felt safe and "normal".

So, maybe you can "test" it out with your T? Tell her you are devastated by the loss of touch and how it helps you, not hurts you. Our Ts just want whatever they say or do to be helpful, not hurtful. Sometimes they play it by the textbook, but we are unique, not a case in the textbook! I would be honest with my T and tell her if the touch felt wrong to me. Can't Ts trust us a little more about touch?

Nellicat, I'm so sorry that T changed her boundaries after you disclosed something so difficult. I really disagree with her- I think for people who have suffered CSA, it's even more important to empower them to set their own healthy boundaries for themselves. So if you were saying to T you didn't feel comfortable, that would be one thing. But for T to decide it's not comfortable based on something that someone else did to you? That sounds really painful and almost like punishing you for someone else's wrongdoing.

Like MUE, my T has a no touch policy. But it's a blanket policy, right from the start. I can imagine it would feel heartbreaking if she withdrew her touch based on something that had happened to me historically.

Can you let T know how you feel about this? Maybe by email if you can't speak to her? Or you could give her this thread?

[lostmyway21]

Originally Posted by pbutton

I've been thinking about this too. Last time I told T that on some level I know he's safe because I don't freak out when he pats me on the back as I leave.

Then when I left that day he didn't pat me on the back. I can't decide if this is for my own good or what. Maybe he just forgot. Maybe he knows something that I don't.

I should probably bring this up with him, but I doubt that I will. It's kind of a bummer though. I freak out when we have to put a ball under our backs in Pilates.... the fact that I trusted him at that level was pretty cool.

So, as you can see, I have no helpful advice here. I am sorry you are hurting.

This is totally on my mind now. When I asked T if he would hug and he said no, he did pat me on the shoulder on the way out. I am normally freaked out by touch, and even though my heart skipped a beat because I was totally not expecting it...it felt safe and comforting. Now I'm angry at him for not doing it since then, and being against touch. How else am I going to feel okay with touch ever again, if I don't learn it can be safe.

[pbutton]

Originally Posted by lostmyway21

How else am I going to feel okay with touch ever again, if I don't learn it can be safe.

Yes! This! I am totally going to borrow this...

...as soon as I decide that I don't have some weird erotic transference reason for wanting him to touch me.

FML.

Originally Posted by Nelliecat

CSA was brought up and she has said she now needs to be very careful about touch. No hand holding or hugging like before and now I feel like she's abandoning me too, she doesn't want to touch me.

Oh WOW. This would completely unravel me, for sure.

I know it FEELS like "I'm to horrible and dirty so T won't touch me", but I am positive that the reality is that T is thinking "I have to be careful with Nelliecat because I don't want to trigger or scare or hurt her". Which is, ironically, exactly what she's done.

I know how hard it will be to bring this up with her, but I hope you can find a way to do it. Could you write it down?

You are NOT horrible, I promise. You are in a confusing situation with T that needs to be worked through.

Lots and lots of to you

[lostmyway21]

Okay this has totally provoked me now. I have a few questions...

1# How do you ask your T for touch?
2# If your T doesn't hug is it safe to assume that they don't touch at all?

I understand logically about boundries and why T wouldn't hug me last month, and I thought I was FINE with it. But now I am NOT...I am angry, hurt, and resentful. Seriously how hard would it have been to hug me? The feeling of shame and embarrassment that I felt after he said no, was off the scales. I am scared to have anyone in my personal space, I am scared to be touched, and yet I asked T to show me it was safe... and he rejected me. Now, I don't ever want to try again. T... I am mad at you and your boundries suck.

3# Oh and do I bring this up to T now? If so how? I don't know how to approach this at all.