In Session Today : Part III

LT,

FWIW, my experience was that I was pretty much never going to feel it totally the right time to end therapy with a therapist who had crummy boundaries (and to whom I was insecurely but deeply attached). Obviously, for me, literally all control was taken away. So that sucked. But, I can absolutely see now that ending therapy was the right course of action YEARS before it actually happened. Not because S is a horrible person -- he's not -- but because the boundaries were shot, and, therefore, the therapy could NOT be effective for anything except creating an increasingly intense insecure attachment. Which meant that my brain would throw up anything and everything to prevent the therapy from ending...ever.

I'm rambling.
My point is that "maybe this is 'I want to leave to stop MC leaving me'" doesn't, from where I stand only, seem like what's going on here. I'm far more inclined to believe that that worry (the worry that that's what is happening) is popping up to slow you down in choosing to leave because you are terrified of leaving (and, trust me, I get it....leaving is painful as f***, and I'm afraid of it too).

I think you're absolutely right that, as you put it, crummy boundaries just reinforce insecure attachment. That was my attachment style to begin with, and it's continued with MC. And I think he knew that--he kept saying he needed to stop reassuring me, because all it tends to do is create a need for more reassurance, but then he'd keep reassuring me anyway. He was feeding an addiction, in a sense. Not helping to end it.

I used to think the looser boundaries were proof that he really cares, that I was "special" (even if he says all his patients are special). But now...I'm starting to realize more how it was just kind of sloppy therapy that may have ultimately done more harm than good. Not just regarding stuff with him, but also making me feel more insecure with my new T. And I feel safer with new T's stronger boundaries...

You're probably right...that no time would feel like the "right time" to leave. I'm definitely scared of leaving--he's like a safety net for me in some ways, though feels less safe lately. Thinking of leaving him makes me feel this ache in my chest, my eyes fill with tears... But seeing this T now gives me hope that I'll be able to walk away at some point--and get through it, with T's support. (I didn't feel that with ex-T.) I have this thought of wanting to gradually space out sessions...but then I also wonder, will that be like pulling the Band-Aid off slowly? Will it be more like a slow death, drawing out the pain? Should we instead just determine a certain date, say, 2 or 3 months from now will be the last session? Or even sooner? I guess that's something to discuss with T tomorrow, because I also want to keep myself safe through all of it...maybe gradual is safer...

Interesting session today. Started talking about how things have been good. Like, I'm in a really good headspace right now. Told her a conversation I had with H last night when I was getting upset, but was able to reframe my thinking. She was happy about that.

Talked about leaving yoga early yesterday. The instructor physically corrected one of my poses, which was very upsetting. I left the class shortly afterward because I started to think about CSA. So I got on the elliptical for a bit instead.

V was proud that I didn't leave the gym. I said no, but that I wish I didn't get triggered. When does the pain go away?

She said she doesn't think it does. It just morphs. She talked about something in her life that she's struggled with in her life. It was more acute at first, and she still has bad days, but the bad days aren't the same as they used to be.

I'm summarizing, because she went on a little too long. When she was finished, I said, "okay, I need a minute to check in with myself."

After I collected my thoughts and evaluated that I was okay, I said to her that we need to be mindful of something. A large portion of what went awry in my last therapeutic relationship was too much self disclosure. That I needed to check in to make sure I wasn't going to be upset by what she said later.

"Are you?"
"I think so."
"Would you prefer that I not self disclose at all?"
"No, I think some is good. I don't know what my line is exactly, but I feel close to the line. The difference between you and RoboT is that with you, I have no details. I don't want details! But with him I knew everything. And that was too much."

She assured me that she was okay, that she's very mindful of what she shares with me, especially since I'm sensitive to self disclosure.

I said this will probably be an ongoing discussion. I'm starting to actually like her, plus I'm doing well so maybe what she's helping me with is working. I'm afraid of getting hurt again by a therapist. I don't want to care about her issues like I did with RoboT.

She said that she appreciated me setting boundaries and not being afraid to express my concerns. That it showed good self care. That she didn't need my care. That she cares about me, and that one way street is what therapy is supposed to be.

Next session on Monday.

T yesterday. I was running late and somehow grabbed my H's spare car key instead of my keys. So I locked myself out of my house and car. Ended up calling a cab and texting T to let him know I'd be late. He said to let him know when I got there (he doesn't have a receptionist). Appointment was 1:30, I arrived at about 1:50, and he was sitting in the waiting room reading a magazine.

I was a mess, because I was mad at myself for the screwup and losing session time because I'd really wanted to talk about some stuff, plus I was intensely anxious from the cab ride (riding in cars--particularly the back seat--is a panic trigger for me). T asked why I didn't have any keys hidden outside the house, and I said fear of someone breaking in. He said they have one in the garage, which opens with a code, plus another hidden one outside that no one could see--you just had to know where it was. Plus their neighbors have one. He said it's because his son gets off the bus and is home by himself for a bit after school, plus his wife has ADHD (which he'd mentioned before) and is prone to forgetting things like keys.

I was still really anxious, and T asked what I generally did to calm down--did I do breathing exercises? I said sometimes, but my instinct is generally just to go someplace and hide so no one can see me. He asked if I wanted to step into the ladies' room for a minute, and I said it would take so much time to go to the one out in the main office building. He said, "No, the one right outside my door," and I said, "Wait, there's one right there?" He said it was technically supposed to be just for the clinicians, but he owns the space, so he can let whoever he wants use it. I thanked him and said I was OK for now. Then after a few minutes of talking and crying, I ended up going in there for a minute just to compose myself.

When I stepped back in, he was doing something on his phone, but instantly put it down and turned his attention to me. I kept saying how I hated that I'd missed part of the session (thankfully, he goes a full hour, so I still got nearly 40 minutes), and he asked if there was something particular I'd wanted to address. I said mostly MC stuff and I guessed the e-mail I'd sent him. Sobbing, I mentioned how we planned to tell MC today that we were going to start working toward termination. T said he got the sense I wasn't quite ready to tell him and that there was no need to tell him today. That I didn't have to rush into it. That I could just wait until I was ready. I said I guessed he was right and that maybe it made sense to wait a bit.

I said I wasn't sure the best way to go about ending--should I just rip the band-aid off and end fairly quickly or do it more gradually? But I worried that doing it more gradually would just make it more painful. He said I didn't have to decide that either, that we could talk about it with MC and try doing one thing, then if that doesn't feel right, we can always change it. How his clients have ended in different ways.

He asked what it meant for me to stop seeing MC. I said for one, it was having one less person who cared about me. T said, "I'm not so sure about that." I said I just had this image of, I'm not a client anymore, so it's like he flips off the caring switch. T said with past clients, sure, he doesn't think about them as often as when he was seeing them, but it doesn't mean he no longer cares. I said it helped to hear that.

Then I said, "The thing is, I feel like that's what happened with ex-T." How I'd e-mailed her to ask if it was OK if I sent her a longer update e-mail, and she'd said yes. So I'd sent it 3 weeks ago and she never said anything back. T said maybe she felt it was beyond the scope of what she felt comfortable answering. I said that even if she'd just said, "Thanks for the updates!" or, say, "Good luck with your applications," that would have been nice. But her lack of response made me feel like she was just thinking, "Thank God I don't have to deal with these e-mails from LT anymore. If I respond, that might just encourage her." I said how I felt like MC was probably thinking the same, like, "This has been so nice these past 3 weeks not getting e-mails or texts from LT."

T said, "Wow, it sounds like you really think you're a burden on people." I said, "Yes, really like a burden on anyone, ex-T, MC, you, H. I was worried you'd feel the same way when I sent you the e-mail, like, 'Oh no, now LT is starting to e-mail me.'" T said that I'd contracted him to do it, since I was paying (he charges for e-mails over a certain length), that it was part of his job, so it wouldn't be something that bothered him--he hadn't done it out of charity. He said he tries to be very clear with his expectations and boundaries. And if I ever start to approach something that doesn't feel OK to him, he'll let me know early on, like he wouldn't wait until it built up and became a huge problem. I said so not like it apparently became with ex-T and MC (referring to outside contact). I said I really appreciated his saying that, and I'd definitely want to know earlier than later. He said he tries to be like that with everyone, not just clients, like in his marriage, too. How it can be a big problem in relationships if people let stuff build up. I said it had been a few times in my marriage, and he said it is in most marriages (he does couples counseling too).

I said something else that worried me about leaving MC was that in the past, I'd had both ex-T and MC, then current T and MC. But then I'd just have T, which scares me a bit. T said that made sense, since MC and ex-T had given me lots of support over the years. I said how MC can feel like a bit of a safety net for me. Like, I can call him at 3 a.m. and he'll answer the phone--even though I've only done that once--and I know it's T's boundary not to do that (he doesn't respond to stuff between 10 p.m. and 7 a.m.). Though I said I guess it feels like things have changed, so maybe MC wouldn't be as much of a safety net as I'd thought. T said he understood the fears, that he knew MC had given me a lot of support in the past. I said yeah, during this one crisis I feel like he may have basically saved my life.

Talked about stuff I wanted to resolve with MC before ending. I said how there were things I felt weird bringing up in session with MC and H, which was part of why I might still be interested in the possibility of the three of us (me, T, and MC) meeting. T asked what the topics were, and I said two of them were apologizing for how I'd acted when his wife died (I'd said something over e-mail before, but MC had never acknowledged it) and then the love thing--like the e-mail I'd sent, wondering if he'd read it the way T had, like a romantic love letter, and just discussing that topic in general. And I guessed the inconsistent boundary stuff, too.

T said it made sense to just address one at a time with him. To maybe start with the one that seemed easiest. I asked him which he thought was the simplest to address, like from a T's perspective. He said probably the one about my reaction to his wife's death. I said I felt awkward bringing that up now, since it was around the anniversary. He asked me to remember what he'd told me in the e-mail, that it's up to a therapist to decide whether they can handle working if they have personal stuff going on. I said I assumed it was the same about bringing up a topic, that he could always say he didn't want to talk about it. T agreed.

He said one thing I could do, if I didn't feel comfortable saying it out loud, is to type up what I want to say, then hand a copy to H and MC at the start of session. T said sometimes he does that in couples counseling, if one person wants to say something but are afraid to. I said that sounded like a good idea. Though I wasn't sure I could with the love topic. Because I figured MC would read it, then turn to H and say, "So how do you feel about this?" T started laughing and said, "I seriously doubt that's the first thing he'd say!" I said, "Well, he's done that before, like when we've been talking about transference stuff. I mean, not the first thing, and I understand why he's doing it, but it makes it hard to talk about some topics. Even though H will usually say in session that he's fine with whatever I'm talking about."

I'd been sobbing off and on the whole session and had a pile of used tissues on my coat next to me. I reached over to grab a lightly used one to wipe some tears, and T said, “I buy those boxes of tissues by the 8-pack. Use as many as you want. You don’t have to reuse one for your eyes!” I smiled and thanked him, then reached for a new one.

It was time to schedule. I went with next Tuesday, but I asked if it was OK to change it depending on what happens with MC. T said that was fine, I could let him know after that session if I wanted to change.

Went over to his desk to pay, and I said how even though we'd had limited time, I felt like the session had been really helpful. He said, "Good!" Paid, and he held out his hand. I shook it as he said, "Good luck!" with a very caring look in his eyes. I said, "Thanks!" then headed out.

I told him that last session I had sexual thoughts about him in session. Later I was telling him that at times the transference is really painful and that if I didn't know that it wasn't really about him it would be unbearable. Then I noticed he really didn't seem that present and I asked him how he felt about everything I have just been saying to him. He said "I have a lot of responses. I could list a few if you want". I said "well I'm picking up on something from you. I think following that perception would be more productive than you just listing random reactions" he agreed.
He asked when I noticed it. I said it was either around the time I mentioned sexual feelings about you in session or when I was talking about the transference.
He said the transference stuff felt 'heavy' (uh welcome to transference T). He said he was wondering like I was whether it was worth this pain for me (I had mentioned reading a book which had questioned whether the end justifies the means with transference work), and that he was thinking about his own part in causing me pain. I said that I have made my decision that it's the right thing for me to work through this. I said I am capable of making that decision for myself. I said it's just frustrating because it's so drawn out. I said he doesn't need to make a value judgement about the transference.
He responded by saying I don't need to reassure him. He only told me that in response to my question about his reaction. He could manage those feelings himself. I said "and I can't tell you my response to what you just said?" He said "of course you can". I said "well that's my response"
I got tearful and he asked what was happening. I said I felt emotional and don't know why. He said it feels like we went down a level, to a place where we both care about each other. He was worrying about his impact on me and I was worrying about my impact on him.
He said he wondered how the caring feelings were linked to the sexual feelings. I said they are two feelings I am allowed to feel towards him but not express to him. So when I did express my care and he said "don't worry about me" it felt like rejection to me.
I said maybe I'm asking you how it feels for you because I'm searching for intimacy. A more mutual intimacy. He thought for a while and said "maybe the search for intimacy is what it is all about". Time was up so we hugged and I left.

LT, apparently I've missed a lot of what's been going on with you, and I'm sorry. I knew MC wanted to cut down on emails, but I didn't know you were planning to end sessions with him. Are you going to get a different MC, or is your husband okay with totally quitting? That sounds positive for your marriage. I'll look up past threads because I'm interested in how this came about. I'm glad you have a new T to help you go through the termination. He seems like an excellent T! Hugs.

LT, if a new T/MC-figure is already making such a huge difference in your self and your emotional life, then I can't help but wonder what kind of difference a new marriage counselor would make in your relationship. I'm not sure that marriage counseling ever really got off the ground with MC, although I know you have said he was helpful for a few things. It would be pretty cool if you could have a safety net for yourself and a different safety net for your relationship, for however long you might need one or both of them.

I met with t. He said I'm not a pedophile. He said dreams like that are common of csa survivors. We talked about the effects of csa. I got a hug at the end. Glad t doesn't think I am disgusting.

I went into session and just told T what I have been thinking. I told him I felt really vulnerable telling him how preoccupied I am with him and how preoccupied I am with my inner self. He said what does 'preoccupied' mean to you? I told him that I posted all the time about him, worried if he was going to leave, stop validating me. I said I am preoccupied with myself because I constantly try to make sense of my inner environment. None of this alarmed him. I felt like he was very accepting and understanding.

I told him that I finally figured something out. I truly am not in charge of how I feel. When I feel abandonment fears, I am not choosing to do so. When I feel dependent, it isn't a choice. It struck me that I might not have to go through excruciating, traumatizing abandonment pain in order to get better. Previous T was completely ignorant of this concept. I know it as truth, as I have gone through feeling independent, where I didn't text T because I didn't feel the need to do so. It wasn't like I was desperately holding myself back so I wouldn't text T. It was like it was natural.

I told T that it felt like he had changed and that this was driving me crazy. I know I have changed so it makes me wonder if it is all just me. I told T that he was silent after I told him about a few certain things. I told him that I feel like I need his validation in order for me to accept a certain narrative that describes my condition at the time. If he doesn't give it a green light, it is like just sitting inside of my head waiting for approval. It's almost like I can't truly believe it unless he approves/validates it.

I often ask him if I am doing what I should be in therapy. And he said, yes, because I was disclosing to him what I have been writing/thinking/saying the past week, talking about it, and working through it.

When I leave, I do seriously start to second guess my positive view of everything he said to contemplate another negative meaning. This is painful but I have been able to overcome it so far this time.

I feel so much better, it is like feeling major relief after having being in pain.

Text exchange between t (he apparently was in the office today because he has no clue I had cancelled all my appointments with him).

Me: can we speak in the phone briefly this week?
T: yes, for your emails last week (no talk of quitting in those). Was in vacation all week last week.
T: I can see you on Friday if your prefer

Me: yes, I know you were in vacation last week, was not expecting a response to my emails. I actually called your office today and cancelled all my appointments with you. Was hoping we could talk about my decision briefly over the phone.

T: nothing... he has said absolutely nothing to me since then. Not sure what that means.

I'm sorry, healed.

That is such an intense session, and I like the part in which he said you cared about your impact on him and he cared about his impact on you. It seems like he sees you as empathetic, and respects that therapy is a two way street. I dont think my T sees me as having much of an impact on him- if so he doesnt let it show.

Thanks. We do try to talk about the transference as openly as we can (and countertransference, as much as will help me and not be problematic). We're definitely a team

He responded to my email today:

Hi RS

I am pleased to hear that you came away feeling very positive from our session. It seemed to me an important connection we were able to feel our way into; so it had an emotional depth.

See you next week.

Best wishes

T

Session today was good; I feel ok. We talked about my goals in therapy, we talked about his goals for me. We talked about the phone policy change. But, primarily, we talked about my constant preoccupation with trying to avoid causing C any annoyance or frustration.

It seems that, in all of my relationships, actually, I spend a good bit of effort worrying about and trying to avoid annoying or frustrating the other person. I am afraid of and uncomfortable with frustration. I grew up in a home where frustration was synonymous with "blowing up."

It turns out, C has actually already experienced frustration in our relationship (and I did not die). He gave me a couple of examples: 1. any time I tell him that I am actively avoiding contacting him, 2. the conversation on Tuesday that led to him changing the phone policy.

We defined, of course, the obvious: that I am afraid of him pulling away from, rejecting, or leaving me. And he continues to say we need to experience frustration, and I need to experience being angry at him, so that I can see that these things do not destroy the relationship or him -- so that, in my real life, I can stop avoiding frustration, because it ultimately leads to me "blowing up" too.

We also talked about contact/the phone policy. C stated that his goal for me was to need to contact him less. Now, of course a part of me hears this only as "You need to contact me less." I brought this up right away and asked him to explain further what he meant. I also told him I knew he wasn't saying that I needed to contact him less -- well, logical TMC knew. And I said I understood that the goal wasn't about contact at all but rather that I would feel secure and safe enough in our relationship that I would not be constantly worrying about whether it was still there. 3 years ago, I would not have been able to handle this exchange - I would not have been able to be calmed by logical TMC. But, today, I was... so, clearly, there has been progress.

I asked him at the end if he had brought up goals because I wasn't going fast enough. To which he said "fast enough for?" I said "you" he said "towards?" I said "what is this, MadLibs?"

He told me he wants me to go as fast as I can (and logical me chimed in 'he doesn't mean to rush through anything - rushing is not the same as as fast as you can') and that whether it's an inch a month or an inch a year, it will always be fast enough for him.

So, logical TMC seems to have a louder voice than in the past, and I'm feeling ok. Not brilliant, not totally safe or secure or connected like I was a few weeks ago, but ok.

I suppose some of you are curious about the MC session Wed. that led to starting the termination process. Now that I processed it with T yesterday, I feel OK typing it out. So, here's how the conversation started:

I'd discussed possibility of starting termination with H beforehand and also told him what T had said about waiting if I wasn't ready. He was willing to go with whatever I wanted. Shortly before session, I got really emotional, thinking about how I just don't really trust MC anymore. Still, I was partly waiting to decide what to do until I saw how I felt when I saw him. When I did, I just felt…weird. Like disconnected.

For the first 15 minutes of the session, we kinda made small talk and caught him up on past couple weeks. H was doing most of the talking My eyes teared up a couple times in there. Finally, MC was like, “You look stressed. What’s going on?"

I forget what I said, something about trying to figure out what to do. H shared how T had asked if the ship had sailed on things working with MC on marriage counseling and how we’d (H and I) had discussed that.

MC asked what I thought about it. I said I wasn’t sure, how I thought the transference was interfering. MC said he thought had mostly just been the past 4-5 weeks. I wanted to be like, um, where have you been??? But I said it’s really been other times, too

But the stuff from the last 5 weeks…that I felt bad saying this…but I just didn’t really feel like I could trust him anymore.

He said something about black and white thinking, that it’s not trust or not. I said I knew that…but that I felt like trust was a really important thing with a therapist. And I just wasn’t feeling that with him right now.

He said how working through this conflict could be a good thing for me. Like to see he wasn’t going anywhere. I didn’t say this, but it almost felt like he was trying to guilt me into staying. Like, “It would be helpful for you therapeutically to work through this.” He said how people in relationships have conflicts and work through them and it’s OK. I said I knew that, how I’d done that with H, how I’ve also worked through a few conflicts with him (MC) before. But this felt different. And I didn’t want us to spend all this time with him trying to regain my trust.

(more later in separate post on here)

Continuing MC session (part 2 of 2):

At one point, MC made a comment about how “Therapy shouldn’t foster dependency.” And I wanted to be like, “Um…too late!"

I asked him what it actually meant to resolve transference. How T had said to ask him, because MC is psychodynamically trained, while he isn’t. And MC said that really, it’s sort of like anxiety. You can treat it and help with it, but it won’t totally go away. It’s just kind of learning to live with and work with it. So…I think basically he was saying the transference would always be there???

Throughout the session, I kept feeling like I just had to go for it, to do it then. Like before I changed my mind. I also wasn't looking at MC much during session, because I know how good he is at using eye contact and body language and stuff to sort of suck me in. And I didn't want that to happen...

I told MC how I had to feel like I was in a good individual therapy relationship before I would feel OK terminating. I said it wasn’t like ex-T wasn’t supportive, but with T just seems different. MC said he was glad I had that support.

I mentioned the thing I’d told T the day before, how if we terminated, I felt there would be one less person who cared about me. But MC said he wasn’t going to stop caring. (I knew he'd say that, just had to hear it, I guess. It made me waver for a second though...)

I did say to him how I was thinking he probably was thinking how nice it was to not have had me e-mail or text the past few weeks…and that he wished he’d told me that sooner. He said he wasn’t thinking either of those things.

I said I had told T I'd been worried to terminate with MC because I was used to having both MC and someone else (ex-T, then current T), and now it would just be current T. He said I was worried about putting all of my therapy eggs into one basket. I said yes...but the more I thought about it, I don't just have one basket. There's also H and my friends. MC said that yes, H is the strongest basket--what's stronger than wicker? Ah, Longaberger baskets. Then he shared some anecdote about...maybe they were there in his house growing up? And he learned not to make fun of them by calling them Limburger baskets to someone who cared about them. How that was an important lesson.

He must have said like 5 times at the end of this session that when we terminate, I was probably going to think to myself that he was trying to push us away. But that would be my perception. He’s not pushing me away or rejecting me. I was finally like, “Yes, I get it! You’re not pushing me away!"

We were already about 10 minutes over time. I said, "So where do we go from here?" MC said, "Would you want to schedule a session in a month? That would give you time to see how things go between you, how you feel about things." Of course, a month from session, he's going to be at a conference, so we're seeing him Feb. 5. He said at any time, we could call and see him sooner if we wanted to.

He'd also said earlier how even if we terminate, his door would always be open if we wanted to come back, just for one session or more regularly.

We headed out, usual handshake and "Good to see you," which seemed odd considering we'd just said we wanted to terminate with him, but OK. He walked behind us to waiting room, then said "Take care." I turned back to look at him and said "You too." Got into the car, crying, and immediately texted T to see if he had any openings for the next day--which he did, so scheduled for that.

Cried a bit on the way home, then a few times after getting home, then...was mostly fine. Thought I'd have trouble sleeping that night, but no, I slept over 8 hours (unusual for me). Felt mostly fine next morning, too...will try to write up T session later (mostly just processing termination stuff with MC...)

Ohhh (((LT))) you are so brave and so strong. Lean heavily on your new T, ok? That is what he is there for.

Things went downhill with my scary secret I shared with him, his reaction shocked me and made me very sick feeling. I feel so perverted and dirty and filled with shame. I wish I had never opened my mouth.

Otherwise things went ok. We discussed some goals for my year and steps to get there. We discussed how my grief issues are going at the moment, everything was just fine but I was blindsided and it's all I can think about. I am too scared to even confess anything more. Totally backfired. Rejection is awful, especially from someone who means so much. I have literally showered 2x already because of how gross I feel over what I told him.

DP, the os not your fault or anything to be ashamed about. He should be more than able to handle any feelings constructively.

Thanks, TMC. Doing my best with that. Just scary, as I'm sure you know...

Right, another thing that came up, was MC was asking if we felt marriage counseling was helping. I said how at times, it felt like the turmoil of the transference, the negatives of that, were overshadowing any benefits the sessions had for our marriage. I don't think he said anything in response to that...

Thursday 1/4 session. For those that have not read my notes before or not in a while. I write directly to my T and give these notes to her; therefore the you in here is her.

Oh and another general question - would it be easier for people if I was to break these into parts?

Before I left for session, I was trying to figure out what I wanted to wear, I didn’t want to wear sweat pants. I picked out clothing and tried to find a pair of shoes I wanted. I couldn’t find them so I settled on a similar pair. The clothing and shoes seemed important. I felt like I was a little boy being dressed by his mommy (not you). Which a part of me was confused about because sweat pants would have been just as appropriate for a little boy. Still... maybe I felt like I was being dressed as a little man; a blue-collar working man. I came up through the blue-collar world. There are times I miss that world.

I was later than I wanted to be leaving for session so I ended up driving in. On my drive, I thought about telling you I love you and telling you that I know that you know that I love you. I also thought about saying the based on my definition of love, you love me. I thought about the statement that I believe you love me. And how those 2 statements are different. I also thought about the topics for today: the stage, the vacation, the what happens if something bad happens to you, the concept of counter transference. I was pretty nervous about all of it.

I made good timing driving and arrived with 25 mins to spare. I had my tablet with me so after I took off my coat, I pulled it out and entertained myself with it. At about 12 til the hour someone came in, down the stairs and around the corner. At first, I thought it might be you. Then someone else came in and pushed a button then came and sat down. He said hi as he came into the waiting room. This was the first time I’ve been in the waiting room with someone else. I’ve had people in the waiting room when I’ve left session but not while I was waiting. I have also heard people coming and going while in session. It was strange to have someone there. I worried for a moment that you might have overbooked the hour. Then someone came out and he got up and said a welcoming statement to whomever. That person said something back, I could not hear them, did sound female. It wasn’t you. I waited. Eventually, you came out to get me. I was doing something, not sure what and was startled a little by your hi. You were in glasses and a green/white ¾ sleeve button up shirt, with jeans. I have been used to seeing you in a sweater or something warmer.

I said hi and got up, gathered my stuff (I had put my tablet back in my bag when the other client left the waiting room in anticipation of you). You turned off the button and led us back. I put my coat on the side of the couch and my bag on the floor on the south side of me. I sat on the floor. You sat in your chair. You didn’t ask where I wanted you, why? Is it because last time I was undecided, is it because sitting on the floor is getting too hard for you, is it because of the feelings I get when you sit on the floor? I guess I should have asked. I said that I liked sitting on the floor now that I can again. I realized while typing this up that on the floor, I can compress even more into myself than when I am sitting on the couch, or so it seems. I don’t have image in my head of the smallest I physically got while sitting on the couch/chair.

I had fantasized so many things for this session – going right to that tantrum I talked about to telling you that I love you when I first sat down. I started out saying that it was a long couple of days. I told you that last session notes were not completed and there wasn’t even an outline for the parts that I didn’t get to. As always, you tell me that this is ok. I said that it wasn’t hard like crisis, just long because of the stuff with a friend and my feelings towards you. I told you that it was hard for me to concentrate yesterday. You asked me what I did with the feelings – did I try to push them aside, did I observe them…. I said that they just were felt, that I lived them. Then I said that there was one thought that I tried to push aside, then I laughed and said well 2. You encouraged me to go on, to tell you about the laughter. I laughed and said that well the one I laughed at was emailing you. I said that I wasn’t in crisis, that I didn’t need to email you. The feelings for you would just get so intense. I said that it is hard to have that intensity and it is good to feel it back/have it back.

The other one was wanting to ask another friend a question I was not sure about asking. I told you I didn’t want to ask and I wanted to ask. You asked me about the not wanting to ask. I said that I didn’t want to put the friend in weird/tough spot. I said that I also didn’t want to hear any answer that wasn’t what was desired. I didn’t think there was a win in asking the question. However, it would not go away. Today, when talking with the friend about couple’s counseling, I said that I didn’t have a lot of emotional space for it to be intense or too much support needed from me. The friend offered support around my emotional state. I acknowledged that one thing that had been hard was to not ask her a question. I asked my friend if she could pretend to be a therapist for a bit - hear the question without taking it on, without answering it, without feeling like she had to do something with it? She said yes. So I asked her my question. She did a great job of being a T and asked me questions about my question to explore my feelings around the questions.

I made the comment about part of this (therapy) is learning how to sit with the feelings and emotions. You agreed with this statement. You said that it is about finding where the balance is and in the baby steps, like I wrote about, to get there. I said that I remembered writing that phrase but not about what. You talked about it in baseball terms, starting out in Tee-ball and moving up eventually to major leagues and able to hit the curve ball. I get what you were saying, I don’t think it worked for me though as an analogy. I do need to go back and look at the part in the journal – the baby steps part.

I brought up the concept of the OKness formula (this is a concept of trying to come up with a mathematical representation of a person’s ok status at a given moment, something fun for me to think about). I started out by saying how everyone uses the word for ok meaning, I’m ok, I’m dragging my feet, the worlds going to end someday to alright, I’m ok, this that and another thing of excitement. I explained how even you learnt the nuances in my ok’s. You didn’t say anything here though I felt like you were agreeing with me or encouraging me to continue. You changed the way you were sitting in the chair, to a more laid back/sitting back position. There was more to the change in how you were sitting, wasn’t about being relaxed. It seemed almost like… hmmm no words for it. Just different. Like we were engaging on a different level, a different way. Maybe it was because in this discussion I didn’t feel you as my therapist but as an equal that I was sharing a mathematical idea about. You did change positions, so maybe you also had a shift in how this part of the session was for you.

I pulled out my journal and started reading about the concept of okness being a periodic function, with the J factor (jump factor – the movement of ones okness based on an external event), N factor (neurochemical factor of how one moves from one state of okness to another), and P factor (perception factor – how one moves through the world in terms of optimism/pessimism) matrices. We talked about this for a bit and I read to you my description of it. You listened closely to what I was talking about and really wanted to understand what I shared. You asked questions about it and we debated the concept of the 10 point range. You insisted on the concept of amplitude. I said it is like the pain scale, we have to have some way of measuring. You insisted that people come in and say that their pain is a 14. I said tough. The scale is 0-10. We discussed them some more and I asked you if you’d seen the joke revised pain scale out there where like 1 is do I have pain… and 5 is my pain Is super legit… 7 is my pain is not ****ing around. You said no and we laughed (https://i.pinimg.com/originals/94/36...39383cca9c.jpg

I said that we could make the scale 0-100 and there would always be someone that said it was more or less. You conceded this point. I did agree with you that some people might bounce about in a narrower range but that would be that person’s boundary and would need to be addressed when normalizing for comparison because again, one person’s 2 might be another person’s 5. However, within an individual, their scale would have meaning to them.

You also questioned what not ok would be like in this equation. I said that it is still a measure of okness. I said that the scale is more like -5 to 5 with 0 being just floating at a nice even contentment. We talked more about it being fun for me to talk about Math like this. I said something that if I figured out a real formula that you’d have to publish it. You said I could do it. I said I had no Dr to my name, no PhD or medical doctor. You said, so it was me that would have figured it out. I said something about really enjoying thinking like this. Something else was said about mathematically describing an abstract concept of okness. I said yet everyone understands the concept of okness. Towards the end of the conversation, I think when I told you about why I stopped working the thought, the need to look for a more generic equation and if Pi always was a part of periodic functions, you brought up the memory of the unit circle. We laughed at this.

Something we didn’t talk about is how in essences deep psychotherapy is all about changing the various matrices of an individual’s okness function to provide a better or more desired quality of life.

I was looking at the journal and saw the part about the robot. I started talking about it, and then asked if you remember me writing about the robot in the journal. You said It was not in this last journal set. I reminded you about me being able to by 2 for the price of one. I think I got distracted by something else before coming back to this. I think I went on to talk about my writings of late around increasing my sessions to 3. You reiterate that we can talk about this. I said that yesterday morning I was ready to ask you for it and that by night I thought it might be a harmful. You asked how so, I said that I felt like if I did that then I would find that it wasn’t enough also. You said how some therapies are 4 or even 5 days a week. Yeah. I know this. I said that when I thought about coming and seeing you 4-5 times a week how I thought after a few weeks I wouldn’t have anything to say. You said something about us talking about it, that it is something to be curious about, that we could talk about it as much as I wanted and such. You seemed ok either way – in terms of me increasing or not increasing. One thought that kind of flashed during session and then again after session around the concept that attending that often would really allow the parts to have a heyday of acting out. I could really let them go. During this part, I commented about how when I shared my thoughts about this with a friend, she said that it was just a thought, that I’ve been talking about it for a while now so it must be more than a thought. No decisions were made and I did not directly ask for more sessions. (I am finishing up typing up the session notes on Friday morning and now I’m back to wanting to ask for that 3rd session. )

Again, I’m not sure of the order here; I just know we talked about this next topic.
I think we then returned to the older boy story and I read to you the journal entry about the stage (a fantasy of the older boy opening up to T and sharing his world until he got scared and shut her out again). As I finished it, you made some comment about strong imagery and asked me what I made of it. I don’t remember how I responded or what you had to say around it. There were times where I was moving my legs in nervous energy. I am not sure if this was one of those times. I don’t remember talking about this.

Something was said in here about me experiencing different things through this therapy, the experiential element of it all. This made me think about calling you mommy. I looked through my journal for a segment and yes it was there. I read to you the part about thinking I needed to actually throw that tantrum about you going on vacation/conferences. We talked about the need to let it be felt, let it be heard, and letting it be said. You seemed to understand why this might need to happen. To some degree it’s not to try to guilt you into doing something else – because I so don’t want that. It is to allow that part to have a voice, it is to put myself back there feeling those feelings, and it is for you to sit with me and witness my pain and hurt as I work through the emotions of an infant/toddler and receive the reassurance – learn how to reassure myself when I have these types of emotions.

I was nervous talking about and reading this next part. I brought up that on Monday I… I didn’t know how to say it, I stammered it out that I found this article about how you (and I waved my hand in front of you) could go about addressing if something bad happened to you. You asked me if I meant you/your practice and I said yes. I went on to say how on the forum, someone went to see a new therapist and how they had information about their plans (or at least that they had one) in the new client paperwork. I reminded you how that was an area of concern for me with your last vacation. You remembered. I shared with you that I wrote on the forum that you and I had talked about it and my ideal outcome. I said how after talking to you about it, I still didn’t know what you did if anything because you haven’t shared it with me/we haven’t returned to the topic. I continued to explain how I told them on the forum how yes, I felt I was asking for more than was appropriate given my role in your life and that I was ok with that. I shared with them how we/I’d just recently reconnected with you through the transference and to lose one’s mommy/ideal mommy is hard. I used the word ideal here because I wanted to be clear on the forum that some people did not have good thoughts of their mommy so the concept of losing their mommy might not seem hard. I wanted them to imagine it from the point of view that if your mommy had been good enough, been loved and their mommy loved them, how hard it would be. I’m not sure I see you as ideal mommy or not; definitely good enough mommy, loved mommy and I feel loved by you – not sure if that is just the transference or if I feel it genuinely for the I part as well as all the parts. You acknowledged that yes, losing a mommy/ideal mommy is hard. I told you that I can get by without closure but I do much better with closure. You asked a clarifying question – if I meant closure around the topic or in the event if something bad happened. I said if something bad happened. I again reiterated that I can get by without it, I just do better with it. You said ok. My perception of you changed here. I don’t know what was going on with you. It seemed like something was going on with you through this portion. You had changed the way you were sitting again, it seemed like you were a bit pulled into yourself and a bit withdrawn. It seemed like you were listening, taking me seriously, that you were there with me. It seemed like you took in the information as a person and maybe not from a therapist’s position; it seemed more personal. Then again, just might have been my perception. When I told you again that I do better with closure than without it, that I can get by without it, you said Ok. I went on to clarify that it was closure with space and with you. I think you said Ok again here. It seemed like you were talking softly. The Ok felt different than how I usually take ok’s in stressful discussions. I didn’t take it as being dismissed. I have mixed feelings about the possibility that I might have brought up hard feelings for you. And this came out in a forum post once I got home.

About your question on closure to the topic of you having something in place if something bad was to happen to you – I’m not sure if I need that, the older boy says he wants it because it would be a promise that we were not forgotten, that we’d be taken care of. He doesn’t really need it for himself, as much as he is standing in front of the other parts demanding it for them. If he has the promise, he trusts you, he can tell them that they are safe – won’t be forgotten, won’t be harmed – will have something/someone to help them through the process so they don’t have to do it alone. I shared in my journal my post from the forum as to my ideal/my fantasy. A more realistic would be a therapist that you felt would be a good match to help me through it, contact me before I found out in other ways, and offering to meet with me to work through it; and yeah, closure to the space; perhaps me gathering something of what I left with you. I don’t think I would want all of the items back, I can imagine me taking just a single puzzle piece. I might even leave something more behind (the clip comes to mind), I could see me doing that.

This is so not the right order because I don’t remember there being another topic we talked about but we didn’t go directly from the “if something bad happened to you” topic to the older boy not loving you as mommy topic. Or maybe we did but I don’t think so. Anyway, another thing talked about was the older boy in general. I told you that he doesn’t love you as mommy, that he loves you like a favorite teacher. I reminded you of what I wrote some time ago regarding siting in the breakroom, on the floor next to the refrigerator, not touching the refrigerator, eating my dinner; and how I felt like a 10 yr old boy out fishing with his dad, content to be around his dad without them having to talk. I said that when that happened I wondered or stated that I didn’t think you could be daddy to him. I still don’t think so. I told about how I’ve noticed throughout my life that sometimes when I am in men’s spaces I can sometimes feel like the little brother out with a many year older brother. It doesn’t happen all the time or with all guys just some. I said that it’s noticeable enough that my wife has even commented on it. I said something about that not being too hard as I’m a pretty easy read emotionally. I was remembering a time when I felt this – I said that I think this is the older boy and he is watching the guys to try to figure out how to act. You commented about how guys have a different way of communicating and moving through the world. I said that the older boy is where my confidence lives. He is who I tap into when I need confidence. I said that he can even lead sometimes. You asked about the walk, I said the swagger, I’m all that. I said that this was different. You tried to figure out what made it different. I said that it was more goal/task driven. We talked about solving puzzles and you brought up my old job and the layers needed to manage that work. Yeah. More was said here, I don’t remember – just more along this same line.

My watch had gone off and I knew it was time to go. I didn’t want to go. I really didn’t want to go. I had looked at you some this session but not a huge amount.

me: I love you
you: I know
me: I know you know.

You joked about saying it back but then thinking that would be too many I knows. We laughed. I got up from the floor. You asked about pain, I said none. I think I told you here that the surgeon said I didn’t need to wear the compression garment just an ace on my leg for the seromas and how she’d asked me not to aspirate them anymore. I told you that they had already enlarged almost back to original size and that I had sent a picture in before coming to session. You said you wondered what they’d say. Blah – still don’t aspirate at home and still keep compression on.

I stood and grabbed my bag then saw my coat. I sat my bag down and put on my coat. I said see my medium coat. You were like alright! about it. I said that I had noticed that the black coat hung off me a fair amount. You checked our time for Monday – 3:30pm. I headed towards the door. I did not want to go. I needed to go. I told you that one of the problems now is that I don’t have a butt anymore and the area in the back around my incisions is numb so I don’t feel my pants falling down. You said I’d be all gangster. I pulled at my pants and said I already was. You said something about seeing me on Monday, I think. I said to be safe – this was a plead for you to be safe. I think you said yes or you will. You told me to be safe. I said yes. Be safe. I left.

At no time did I ask you to move to the floor, so you spent the entire session in your chair with me on the floor. This didn't seem to be a big deal for me during session. I did not think about it at all after the initial, oh she's not going to sit on the floor thought at the beginning of the session. I don't feel like I looked at you throughout the session but I think that is more because I read so much from my journal.

I went upstairs, catching the door on the way out. I zipped my coat and headed to the car. I wanted to cry right away. I was already missing you. I already wanted you. I didn’t linger in the car, go home. Someone pulled in as I was about to pull out putting a car in ever close in parking spots and 2 cars in front of the stairs. I’ve started getting more confident about this and I maneuvered my way out of the space and onto the road. Traffic wasn’t too bad. I was sad. I was so sad. I just wanted to come home, eat some food and curl into bed. And that is what I did. I ate a turkey paddy and some chips, did oral care, gathered up one of my laptops, and curled into bed a little after 7pm. I worked on the session notes, emails and the forum until a little after 10pm. I was falling asleep.

Thanks, Elio. I don't think you need to break your IST posts into parts. I like that you have manageable chunks of paragraphs. I usually don't read posts if there are large blocks of text. It's too hard to follow, even if I highlight a few lines at a time.

I wanted to say that I understand better now what you've been referring to with your sense of counter transference. Although I wouldn't call it that in my case, when I brought this up to my therapist after the death of a prescriber, she also changed how she was. The difference was that she told me that she'd was reeling from three big losses and it would be some time before she could get to making plans about her own sudden death or incapacitation. So in my case, I knew what was behind the change.

Maybe it's the topic that made your therapist get lost in herself a bit (if that's what it was), and not any kind of counter transference--so, more topic-related than you-related?

Yeah, which is why on the other thread I've kind of moved away from the concept of counter transference. If I was to say what was going on for her, I would guess that something happened to her between the first time we talked about this topic (9 months ago) and this conversation. I got the feeling that she was there and not really with me but at the same time with me in a different way. That emotionally she was feeling what had happened and that was impacting a little bit on how she was relating to me on the topic now. Not sure if that makes sense.

Not a session but phone calls.

Back story: I see T1 and T3 currently. T3 is a specialist in DID and personality disorders both of which I have been diagnosed with. T1 basically got in over his head with me but hasn't bailed, just encouraged me to also see a specialist.

I have made some amazing progress with T3. But about 6 months ago she decided to go to talk therapy rather than the more brain/body based stuff that we'd done for 2 years (again-amazing results). So for the last 6 months, I have been getting slowly but surely worse. H went in with me and was flabbergasted at her style. I've asked her to change some things, she has, but she has not been willing to go back to brain spotting. She has admitted that she was setting goals for me that were not even what I wanted. All that to say that I feel like I have tried to work things out with her, and I think she has with me. But, I was feeling agitated, unable to sleep, heart pounding all the time, just making backwards progress. Last session was again frustrating, I left dissociated. The next morning I called the receptionist and cancelled my next two sessions. I had four scheduled. I thought that taking a break to see how I felt would be a good idea.

I had said in session that perhaps I should quit with her because we are just not onthe same page. She said that would be ok, but that she thought that I should have a conversation with her about it and not just react. I thought about that, but decided that I didn't want to have another frustrating, dissociative session. So, I cancelled those two sessions to just see how I would react.

T1 agreed that taking a break/quitting was in order. I was calm, sleeping better. Pretty much convinced that quitting was my best plan. The problem is that T1 really has no clue on the dissociative stuff.

Meanwhile, my college roommate's husband died. We are in our 50's. I am not close with the former roommate-I used to see her each year when we would visit my in-laws in California, a couple of hours from where she lives. But they moved and we don't go to CA anymore, so not really in touch these days. But the death of her husband was kind of a shock. 55 years old, sudden death. I had two reactions-sadness for her and anger that he gets to die and I don't. That anger thing is how I react when people my age die-I know that it is not a sign of robust mental health. But I do wish that I were dead. The other reaction, sadness and shock, I shared with H. He wanted to hug and hold me, to comfort me, and I just can't do that. I don't know why. So two issues that I want to fix with T3, right there. I talked to T1 about it, he said journal, I shared the journal, I left that session to drive a few hours to my daughters. And while driving, I dissociated enough that I didn't know where the brake pedal was when a semi changed into my lane right in front of me. Not good to dissociate like that. Clearly I need something other than T1. But still calm and still able to sleep. I started looking for Ts who do the kind of stuff T3 does-several hours away. Right. But I was still not making a definite decision about if I was taking a break or quitting all together.

Friday, T3 called me. Left a message, that she was checking up on me. ??? Asked me to let her know how I was doing. I called back, she answered, said she was in session (!!!) and would call me back. She has never even had her phone on while I was in session to the best of my knowledge. There has never been a call or a text. So, wtf. I actually have never had her cell number until this. So she called back, left a message, and I called again.

She said she was concerned that I left in a bad way, that she was wondering how I was doing since I hadn't been in, wanted to check in. And. said that she has decided that setting goals isn't working. That we need to return to brain spotting (which is what I have been asking for), that instead of goals I need to be curious about what is changing and report it back to her. She'd actually done a consultation with some peers that use brainspotting for DID and this is the result.

I was pretty much flabbergasted. I said thanks and we hung up.

Part of me feels like I pitched a fit and now I am getting my way. Part of me feels like "Hah! See, distancing works." Part of me is mystified. I mean, I have left dissociated before. I have cancelled sessions before (for work or family kind of things-not because I was fed up) and she has never called.

So, yeah. Weird. I suppose she saw the teenage part that comes in handy when I need to distance myself as I was leaving. Or something. I'm still not sure what to make of it. But I do want to do the brain spotting. It really helps. She is really good at it. I don't want to take a full day to travel to someone else who can do brainspotting. At this point, I don't have an appt for this week-this is the second of the two weeks that I cancelled. But I am still on her schedule for the 16th. I guess I go back.

This is definitely not the way that I thought my question about if I should continue with her would be answered. But, it works.