Seeking Relationship Advice

Let me preface by saying that after looking over the forums some (I'm new), everyone here has my sympathy for the things you're going through - and my respect for the thoughtfulness I see toward others.

This was submitted to the therapists; I'm just hoping for some casual feedback in the meantime, and/or in case they don't choose it for an answer. Here it is:

On Sunday, December 23, my father died after a long battle with congestive heart failure. On Wednesday, December 26, I went to visit my boyfriend of 7 months, seeking comfort. Also, I wanted to share with him a DVD of a short film I've adored since I was a child, which I'd told him was very special to me.

We had sex briefly and then he treated me to his end of lengthy telephone conversations with a couple of friends for most of the rest of the evening. At one point, I simply left. He called and talked me into coming back, though it was rather against my better judgment - I really felt I deserved better treatment than this, and indeed, that anyone would.

He continued as before and I slept on the sofa.

In the morning, he apologized for being inconsiderate. I thanked him for that, though I felt he was rather minimizing his lack of compassion; apologies are difficult for him, and I did really appreciate it that he offered one. However, I remained hurt and angry that he'd chosen to treat me in such cavalier fashion just when, quite literally, I needed him most.

In the few days since then, he's been very supportive by telephone, but hasn't acknowledged in any way that I might still be hurt or angry, nor made any effort to make amends. Finally I brought it up today (Saturday, the 29th). He said he doesn't feel bad about this at all and that my "idiosyncratic response" is an overreaction. It is perfectly true that sometimes I do overreact. I do not think that this is one of those times.

What do you think?

Thanks.

Reading your post made me angry...and it hit very close to home. From what I can tell, you are in a relationship with a man who is either very self centered, or is unable to empathize with someone else, which is hard to take considering that when you're in a relationship, it's your partner that you turn to first for comfort and understanding.

My husband of six years is both of these things, self centered and insensitive to my feelings. He can not remove himself from a situation and see only how it affects me, or how I feel. He relates everything to himself, and is incapable of just being there for me. To be honest, it is a huge part of why our marriage on the ropes, (along with his inability to communicate!) and I have told him that it is likely that I will eventually move out. We have two children, and I am 16 weeks pregnant with our third, and yet I know I deserve better than the one sided relationship I'm in. I pray he learns how to communicate and "step outside himself" before it's too late, but I will not remain with a man who isn't there when I need him the most.

And this is my advice (take it for what it's worth!) to you; ask yourself if you're getting what you need from your relationship, and if the answer is "no", you have two choices. #1: tell him exactly how you feel, and give him the opportunity to change the way he relates to you. 2# leave. I don't know about you, but I would rather be alone than be with someone who adds hurt to my pain.

Good luck, and please know that there are many good people here with great advice, who genuinely care. I thank my stars for finding this forum and the wonderful; people on it!

(((((((((((( MentalFloss )))))))))))))

First of all, please accept my heartfelt sympathies on the loss of your father.

Next....wow....as far as I can see, your boyfriend has failed you on all accounts. First he ignores you in your time of need....giving a clear message that your feelings and needs are secondary to himself and then he completely invalidates how your felt about his ignorance.

He's sending you a clear message what he is all about, and unfortunately for you, it isn't you!

Heck, many times we don't have to agree or like what another person is going through or feeling. But we can certainly validate that persons feelings and situation. It seems your boyfriend couldn't even do that much for you.

I would drop him like a hot potato. You deserve better, from yourself and from others in your life that are supposed to care about you. I believe that staying with a man like this will only bring you much more heartache, frustration and needless pain.

Of course, these are strictly my opinions. It took me a long time in life to find a man who was able to validate my feelings even if he didn't necessarily agree with them. I don't care if he agrees, they are my feelings not his. I just appreciate his efforts to validate. It means the world to me.

Wishinig you well MentalFloss! Oh, and welcome to PC!


sabby

Hi MentalFloss!....Ask yourself this question, Will I be hurt if he does something like this again to me?...If the answer is YES, then dump him. This man has no natural empathy...for God sakes, your father died!!!!....This man is showing you how he will react to sensitive and difficult situations in life.....and life is filled with such situations. YOu need a friend, a companion, a soft place to fall....this man is made of stone from what you are telling us. Sorry, if I'm so down on him, but I'm calling it like I see it. Remember that there are many fish in the sea...don't settle for a deep sea creature!

Mental Floss
I personally found two things disturbing in his response. First, if he really cared about you he would not have been so inattentive to you just 3 days after losing your father. Even if he didn't know exactly how to comfort you, he should have at least given you his full attention.

Second troubling sign:
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MentalFloss said:
Finally I brought it up today (Saturday, the 29th). He said he doesn't feel bad about this at all and that my "idiosyncratic response" is an overreaction. It is perfectly true that sometimes I do overreact. I do not think that this is one of those times.

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A caring and compassionate person after hearing that you were still feeling upset about how you were treated would NOT respond by minimizing or telling you what you were feeling is wrong. A caring person would apologize for hurting you and seek ways to help you feel better. If they really felt they were responding appropriately they might say, "I sorry I hurt your feelings, I didn't realize how bad you were feeling."

Be really careful of people who tell you what you should be feeling, or that you are overreacting, too sensitive, too needy, etc.. This is not a good sign.

Welcome to PC

To make sure we have all the bases covered, I'm going to take a different tact.

I'm guessing you know what to do. You mentioned that you had sex and then he treated you poorly. It sounds like he's just using you. There are a couple of books I would recommend: _He's just not that into you_ and _Women who love too much_

Of course, you could keep knocking your head against the wall for a few more months. Maybe get pregnant and become a single mom? See where this is going?

Thank you all so much for your condolences, advice, and support.

wounded1, I'm so sorry that this resonated so strongly for you personally - I would wish better for you and your children. I so hope your husband will be willing to work with you on this.

sabby, what a sweetie you are, thank you so much.

Rosario, no need to be concerned about being hard on him, and I love your use of metaphor - very vivid. Thank you.

mckell13, you had some wise words that really rang true. I appreciate your insights. You said some things that I was thinking, but not willing to acknowledge just yet. Also, I am guilty of telling him how he should feel. I told him that I thought he should feel bad about this. I need to think about that.

Doh2007, you're right, I do know what to do... it's just that it hurts to do it, especially now; and I needed some reasonably objective validation, hence my presence here.

I am just so thankful for your thoughtful advice, everyone. I didn't know quite what to expect here, but I sure didn't expect this level of caring from complete strangers. I appreciate it enormously.

Thank you.

Hello, I just wanted to offer some help as to you and your boyfriend. First, though, I want to extend my condolences to you about your father's passing. Now, I must tell you that you did not deserve the lack of support during such a painful and vulnerable time.

Think about it this way, if he still does not acknowledge this disregard for your feelings now, then what is it going to be like during future difficult times.

I grew up with a father who all too often was physically, verbally, and mentally abusive. Most times he displayed such disregard during times of grief, with some little tokens of understanding mixed in. Bottom line, I feel you deserve someone who will be there no matter what. Isn't that one of the merits of a good relationship?

I hope that I didn't get carried away and I'm sorry if I may have been too direct. I just feel that one's true character comes out of someone when either they are alone with no one around or when times get rough.

Take care of yourself,

NewDawnFades

NewDawnFades, I love your openness, and I thank you for your input and condolences. I'm so sorry for what you went through. I think it's remarkable and laudable that, given that, you are offering support and compassion, to anyone. Thank you so much.

It really means a lot.

MentalFloss, did you ever tell him you had a video you wanted to watch and explain you wanted cuddling or whatever you wanted for comfort?

I think some guys are not experienced in comforting others, especially women. A lot of people just like "hanging out" and get comfort from that and I think some guys might not have been upset that he was on the phone and doing other things, they would have just played his video games, watched the TV, etc. and felt better? Have you ever discussed your relationship and had a circumstance where you needed comforting before so he had a clue? I don't understand why you stayed the night and slept on the couch instead of either getting angry with him and leaving or initiating a discussion of what was wrong with his behavior right then. I wouldn't have "held on" to it now, that's only bothering you I think, because he's still clueless because you all haven't discussed it? I think maybe you need to spell it out to him instead of just expecting him to get it.
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At one point, I simply left. He called and talked me into coming back

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I don't see any "gosh darn it, get off the phone, NOW, I need you!" discussion or information to him and he called and talked you into coming back (because he wanted you near him, apparently) but I don't know if you discussed that something was wrong the first time. Just leaving, isn't a good expression of anger because it is also an expression of boredom or just being "not in the mood" -- I don't see any expression of "need" on your part, just going along with the flow. Yes, your father just died but not everyone responds the same way to such situations and he may not have had any experience in other people's ways of responding. I don't see any clear clues you gave him at the time that you "minded" or were not happy with how he was behaving.

hey mentalfloss...sorry to hear about your father's passing...a word of advice from me to you...don't ever forget the face of your father...as to your friend who is a boy...you should not have had to explain anything to him...he should have held you and offered his strength to you right from the start...any person who would use another's pain to gain some gratification isn't worth the time of day...this is a boy my friend...treat him as such...

Kick him to the curb and get on with it...as a matter of fact...slam dunk the boys boys...so to speak...lol...I dont mean to make light of the situation but take a look around you...are you happy?...are you safe?...nuff said...tc my PC compadre...

Thank you MentalFloss, but no apology necessary. Sharing similar experiences with the folks here has allowed me to gain strength. And after responding to your situation, I took my own advice, and made my husband sit down for a long talk. I think I've finally made him realize that he has been following the model of his parents marriage, which is not good, and we are not the same people as his Mom and Dad. So "helping" you has really helped me!

I was so angry at your boyfriend's insensitivity, I forgot to offer my condolences for your father's passing as well. I know the loss of a family member can be painful, and extremely lonely, but please don't settle for someone who is just physically present. You are so lucky to be able to express your feelings, and you deserve someone who will listen and embrace them...and you.

Good luck, and I hope you find peace.

Maybe he doesn't know what to say or do although he knows your hurt. It was rude of him to talk on the phone when you were there spending time with him, but he did apologize and seemed sincere. I wouldn't dump him over a mistake like this.

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Perna said:
MentalFloss, did you ever tell him you had a video you wanted to watch and explain you wanted cuddling or whatever you wanted for comfort?

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Of course. We'd planned the evening for a couple of days, and had discussed quite explicitly how much I was looking forward to the comfort of being close with him and being in his arms. He said he was looking forward to that, too.

We did talk about this at the time, as well. Or rather, I talked, he argued that he needed to answer the phone. "Answering" doesn't adequately describe the length of the conversations, though, so that's pure sophistry. He could've answered and said, "I'm sorry, I need to be here for my girlfriend right now," or words to that effect - but that would require the desire to be there for me, which he'd given me the impression that he had.

I stayed because by the time we'd finished arguing and he'd finished the last phone conversation, it was too late to catch a train. I'd have preferred to go home, having found that I really should have in the first place, and did that first thing in the morning.

Basically, MentalFloss, to your boyfriend, this issue has already been settled in his mind when he offered his apology, and it will never come to his mind again.

Men operate on a different "plain" that we do. Most of what they think, do or say, does not connect to, or attached to a particular emotion as it does with women. So in their mind, it's really over and done with.

Women, on the other hand, attach emotion to everything that is thought, said and done, and is, therefore, more difficult to let go of, especially when we feel we have not had proper closure.

I did not vote, as I think your decision should be based on whether you think his apology was sincere or not and, of course, if this is a constant pattern with him.

He cannot use the excuse of your "idiosyncratic response" as an overreaction, for everything you feel.

Sometimes (indeed, many a time) the response you received is a (cowardly?) way of not wanting to discuss the issue any further, mostly because they just don't have the tools to do so, nor the inclination.

I have come to believe that men are just not as "evolved" in the emotional arena of life as women are!


Best wishes to you.

I'm so sorry, I totally forgot about your first pain - that of losing your father! Please forgive me.

I am deeply sorry for your loss.

My father also died of the same illness.

MentalFloss...let me start by saying I am very sorry for the loss of your father. As far as your BF goes, when I am spending time (quality or otherwise) with my wife or kids (even my friends for that matter) I make sure that all my phone calls have been made before hand. If I get a phone call during I ask the person if I can call them back. As far as the video goes...it was not until about a year ago (my wife and I have been married seven years) that I really appreciated watching a movie with her (chick flicks). Now I miss that time that she and I got to spend together. Sympathy, if your BF is anything like me it is hard for him to show sympathy, mainly because we (guys) were never really allowed to express our feelings growing up. I am not making exscuses for him, but it is the way we are wired (albeit I am wire a lot different then most men). As far as whether you should dump him or not, this is something that you should really ask yourself. If it is one thing I have learned it is not to take advice from other people about your day to day affairs (trust me I know first hand). You sound like a wonderful person and he should be lucky to have you...and it is not overreacting, it is your personality. Keep smiling

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MentalFloss said:
Also, I am guilty of telling him how he should feel. I told him that I thought he should feel bad about this. I need to think about that.

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Just another word of caution here. Can't you tell I've been here and still frequently obsess about my own guilt?

It is great that you are able to see your own tendencies and flaws. About a month ago Sunrise recommended that I check out a book by Patricia Evans on Verbal Abuse. As I am reading this book I hear myself saying... "Damn this is exactly what he does all the time!" But in the very next thought is "...Crap I sometimes do this too! I a verbal abuser too!" These are honest statements. Unfortunately, what tends to happen with me is I focus on my own guilt and flaws, get upset with myself, and then start excusing and minimizing his behavior because some how I'm now a bad person and deserve to be treated poorly. This behavior doesn't solve anything and just makes me feel more like crap and allows him to continue being a jerk. Its the old saying two wrongs don't make a right.

My recommendation to you is..When you recognize that your personal anger and resentment have tainted your behavior, acknowledge it and attempt to make take action to repair the damage and prevent it from happening again. However also demand that he show you compassion, respect, empathy,... too. Insist that the new standards of communication are followed by everyone. I think as we practice them ourselves, we will feel more deserving of them ourselves. -- Now if I could only take my own advice :-)

If he is unwilling to give or treat you the way you would like to be treated, move on before the relationship gets more entangled.

More thanks to all... it's over, and I'm okay with that. There were several other red flags before this; and on the whole, I think it'll be easier to get on with the business of mourning without the distraction of a confusing and painful romantic involvement.

I so appreciate all your kindness and excellent advice. Hope everyone has a great New Year.

Thank you very much.

Wanted to add some personal notes, but edit time on my last post has expired...

Mystry, you asked, "are you happy?...are you safe?" Sadly, the answer to both is "no." Thank you for pointing out that these are the important questions.

wounded1, I'm so glad to see that you and your husband had a real talk. I so hope that this works out for you, him, and your family together as a whole.

youOme, I love your compassion toward my boyfriend. This isn't easy for him, either, and I do recognize that. Thank you.

AlteredState01, I'm so sorry you experienced the same sort of loss of a parent... thank you for caring, and for being open enough to tell me that. I appreciate it enormously.

dragonphoto, I wish everyone had your telephone manners... and BTW, it wasn't a chick flick, it was the first (as far as I know) Muppet movie, "The Frog Prince." It rocks, for kids and adults both.

mckell13, thanks again, and, I hope my past mistakes will inform future behavior... I'm doing my best! I so get the thing about thinking, "Crap, this is what's being done to me," and then, "Oh, crap, I do this, too!" No one's ever going to be perfect, so I think the ideal is to find a balance... sadly, in this situation, that just wasn't possible.

And now that that's put to bed, I really just want to grieve my father for a while. He was a great guy.

Once again, thank you all, so much. I am astounded at how much caring and insight has been offered here. Having no idea what to expect, I sure didn't expect so much... I will re-read all of this in future, as I am finding it not only kind, but also instructive. Thanks to all, for all of that.

LOL Mental I love the Muppets, but I don't think the frog prince was the first one...You should see the Muppets take Manhattan!!!!!!

Aaarrrgghhh...

My ex has called and written several times, haranguing me for breaking up with him. He seems to be convinced that he is being punished, though I told him I'm doing this to protect myself, as I feel I'm better off alone than I am in his presence, which just makes me feel more sad and more alone than I did by myself.

The thing is, I don't know what he's so upset about. He's been checking out of this involvement for months. He's cut way down on communication by both phone and e-mail, stopped planning activities for us to do together, ignored my suggestions for activities, expected me to stay over for a few days at a time but ignored that I might need to eat or have a place for my clothes, forgot or ignored our month-planned New Year's Eve date and told a friend he didn't know what he'd be doing that night...

He's interrupted sex to answer the phone! A bit violently, too - that was really uncomfortable for me physically as well as emotionally. That one, in retrospect, is a little baffling - he told me he'd been expecting the call and that it was important. I didn't think of this then, but, that being the case, why didn't he wait 'til after the call to take me to bed? That wasn't the only time he ceased physical intimacy in favor of allowing interruption, but it was a notable low point.

He didn't tell his family we were planning on moving in together, so that I was completely sandbagged when his daughter asked if I'd applied for an apartment yet... she was just being nice, taking an interest, but I didn't know what on earth to say. He asked me to call before bed and upon waking every day, but stopped wanting to talk to me most of the time upon receiving those calls... he refused to give me a break to cool down when we argued, then blamed me for perseverating... started backing off plans to move in together, going from "when we can afford it," to "I don't know, I hope so"... everywhere, classic "He's just not that into this" signs.

So the recent callous behavior, while a dreadful nadir, was also part of a pattern. It isn't as if he wasn't trying to push me away already! I don't know, maybe he's just angry because I made the decision, so he didn't have control over it.

Although he's been in touch several times to berate me for the break-up, he hasn't asked how I'm doing with my father's death or expressed any concern... he is only interested in his feelings. I evidently don't have any, as far as he is concerned.

*whew*

That feels a lot better now.

A postscript: though it's very hard, accepting the huge hole my father leaves, I think I'm handling the death all right, so far. And as long as I'm posting, thanks again to everyone for all your condolences.

Yes, sounds like you're best out of it. He sounds rather controlling and selfish, wanting this his way.

Hang around with us here instead for awhile, we can keep you not so lonely :-)

Oh dear ((((((((((((((( M F )))))))))))))))))

I can "see" now that your ex wants control of you and everything is about him. There is no way that this relationship would ever be peaceful and loving towards you unless he saw the error of his ways and received help for it.

Please take good care of YOU through all of this. Be watchful, keep tabs on him and how he is treating you. Watch for escalation in his bad behavior towards you. Keep record of his calls/emails and any other communication from him. If nothing else, it will give you a clear picture of his intentions.


sabby

Yeah, I guess a lot of that is pretty controlling, too, isn't it... I hadn't really thought of that.

It seems unlikely that the current attempts to engage me (whether in conversation or argument, I'm not sure) will escalate to more, though. His ex-wife, whom I like very much, has maintained a friendship with him for years, though their children have been adults for some time now, so I consider that indicative that he only goes so far.

Thanks to you both for your input - and the loan of the shoulders... it's truly appreciated.