Visit with T

I went today and had those blood tests done and then went to see my T. I did not want to go there because I knew that no matter how hard I tried to be all together, it would not work with him - can't pretend around him for long.

We spent the whole time discussing this "rule" thing and him trying to make me understand why he thinks it is in my best interests. I had to explain to him why I think of him as my friend and my T, not just my T.

If he was just my doc, I would not have told him anything, I wouldn't have been so comfortable with him, and never would I go to him with problems and drop in at all different times - I have because I believed we were friends. But now, there is a line, or actually a huge wall between us.

I told him my promise not to end my life no longer exists, because the person I made it to is gone. I tried telling him that he had no clue the damage that he has done and will continue to do to me while this rule is in place.

I sat there and felt horrible. He realized how absolutely furious I am with him - but even more importantly, how devastated I am by what I consider to be his rejection of me. I am allowed to talk to him when I do what he wants, when he wants...........and that makes him like everyone else. There is a line, and if I cross it that's it. He cares up to that line, but not past it.

He wanted me to agree on 3 goals to work with him and I couldn't. I said that I wouldn't be telling him alot anymore - I felt like I couldn't. As I sat there, the worst internal pain was drowning me.

I left with us still at an impasse.........he wouldn't give up his rule and I couldn't talk to him with it in place. I cancelled my next appt. with him, started crying, and went to tell him what I had done and why.......I couldn't do it anymore.

He told me that he does care, and I yelled at him, "no, you don't".....all the time tears were streaming down my face and I felt like I was dying inside. He asked me to reconsider and we'd talk about it some more next week - I refused. I also refused to stay in touch with him, because I don't need someone who cares about me up to a point, but not beyond it. That's not friendship.

My T says that he will think of some kind of compromise that would work for both of us.......I shrugged and told him that he has my email address. Otherwise, it was goodbye.

The pain was incredible and I hated him for the hurt he has caused me. Knowing that I will probably not ever see him again has destroyed me emotionally and mentally. When I said goodbye to him, I did say that I needed him, but I couldn't accept his rule.

I walked out almost hysterical. Had to go sit in the restroom and calm down so I could see. Just thinking about it makes me cry.

My life is now void. I know that I will cut myself more severely and more often now. I will be more selective where because of my job - make sure the marks are more hidden. When the darkness truly surrounds me, I will be far away and I will not even try to stop it from completely taking me.

I can't call my T anymore, no more email (which actually used to be a daily thing).......no one in my real life who accepts all my faults and still cares.

My wonderful husband has decided that the ATM machine (myself) is now back in business because I am working and that is what worries him - cigs. Before all I had was my job basically to make me feel worthwhile - then I met my T and started to think that just maybe I was someone - now all I have is my job again with maybe another surgery coming up, and my T has changed me enough to where that isn't enough anymore.

I am trying very hard to shut down and block these feelings. I have not cut since I have been home because I am here, but I go back tomorrow and I will be alone. The pain and sorrow will come rushing in and I will not fight it or even struggle to deal with it.

It's funny, I bought my husband a cell phone today and he simply took it in stride and then complained how he needed gas and cig money. Amazing......his wife is dying and this is all he thinks about.

It's not just the darkness that is within me, there is also a huge gaping hole in my heart that hurts so badly. But Mary Alice will look fine tomorrow and work because all the big shots are coming down to the store and want to talk/meet with me. I wonder how long I can keep this up.........how long the numbness will last.

I know that all of you care and are here for me. But right now I feel like I am in a bubble separate from everyone else. There is no air inside this space and I am slowly dying. It is an awful feeling to have - with no good way out. And honestly, I am so tired of being hurt - this one really did it.

I'll still be here and still answer posts and appear to be fine. If there comes a time when I am gone, just let it go. It will happen sometime. Please believe how much your support means to me and how it has helped.

Thank you.

Mary Alice

{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{Mary Alice}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}} I am so sorry you are hurting so much. It reminds me of the times that I was hurt by my T. I don't know how to say this without upsetting you more but have you heard of black and white thinking? Sometimes my T would hurt me or piss me off and I would be convinced that he was out to get me, to set me up for more pain because he got off on the power he has. Or even worse that he was in league with my husband, just trying to get me give my hubby sex and what not. Then later my T would do something nice and comforting and he would suddenly be the most wonderful, intelligent man on the face of the earth, my savior and my friend. My T has shown me that he is neither of these extremes. I would split him into two seperate beings, totally forgetting the other half of him depending on how he made me feel during a particular encounter. I can see this behavior in what is happening between you and your T. It is a common occurance. I have heard many people talk about it on this forum. Please forgive me if I have just hurt you more by pointing this out. I became so angry at my T each time he pointed it out to me but if he hadn't pointed it out over and over I would never have learn that I did it. He would read back letters and session transcripts where I said one thing that totally controdicted what I was saying about him at the time. For instance it was not long ago where you said that you T was the only one you have ever trusted. He is the same man as he was then you are just upset right now. Please consider e-mailing him. You don't need to be alone. You have us and you still have him if you want. He has just set bounderies and we can learn by his example.
I apologize if I am out of line,
Sincerely,
Carrie

<font color=green>Not knowing when the dawn will come, I open every door.--Emily Dickenson

Mary Alice,
I wish I could do more to help you but really I can't. You have all my care and support but I know it is not enough.

I will be honest with you. I feel at a loss what to do. There is a part of me that wishes I could bound the ocean and save you and show you that you and your life are worth something.

There is a part of me that sees how much you have given up and that nothing I say can change that. You have made your decision.

Since I have known you on the boards I have seen you cry out for help, talk about what is hurting you, heard about your horrible husband, tell about your lack of self worth. You had back surgery, you got jobs, you get through your day. I know it hasn't been easy but you do it.

You are putting so much energy into working, being in physical pain, putting up with your husband and pushing people away. You put so much time into thinking about the end, the darkness, suicide. You are putting so much of yourself into that negativity.

The positive you give is given to others. Why can't you have that? You treat your *** of a husband better than you treat yourself. Why? I can say without a doubt you deserve more than he does.

I think you are mad at your T because he wants you to do something. Maybe thats how I feel. I think a good friend doesn't coddle you when you are hurting yourself. A good friend is there for you while you are working on things. A friend can't fix you or make things better. Only you can Mary Alice. A friend wants to be there to help you thru your worst pain and support and love you not just put a bandade on after. That will get you no where. You wanted a reason to push your T away and you found it. Now, since he isn't your friend your not bound by a promise to him.

You want to give up Mary Alice and pushing your T away makes it easier for you. You need him and he cares about you and you know it.

You Mary Alice are a smart, caring woman. There is so much good in you but you refuse to see it. You refuse to help yourself. Your stuck in a vicious circle and you are content to wallow in it. It makes me sad. It hurts to know there isn't anything I can do but say I care.

Take a step Mary Alice. Just a tiny step. There is a good life waiting out there for you. You just have to want it and then find a friend (which you have) to help you. Not let you hurt yourself, but help you find ways to make it better.

I have every belief in you. You want to live. You want your son. You want to be happy. You have it in you. You can succeed at everything you try because you put everything you have into it. Put something in to you. Put something into your life. You deserve it. You need it. You can do it.

I don't know if I should shut up or post this. I just can't sit here and say nothing. Look up Mary Alice. There are good things if you look for them.

Hugs and love,
Heidu

The highest reward for a person's toil is not what they get for it, but what they become by it.
John Ruskin

I'm feeling about in your same boat... not b/c of a T, but I'm still feeling similar. (I'm not trying to make your feelings look bad.) It's just lately I've been thiking about eating less and it's worked on and off and last night I actually thought of cutting for my first time. I just can't see the positive anymore... I look and I look, but the only things I come up with are well, to me, nothing, but to others getting up in the morning is the best thing i can think of. But yet I realize people want me, even though I really don't care becuase there really is no point to life. I guess what I am trying to say is that what Zen and heidu shared helped me a little, and I really hope that it helped you too. You are such a great person to all of us here, and I'm sure you reflect that in your life. So I really hope that whatever you choose to do keeps you alive and coming here. I want to be the friend along the way not the one who patrches everything up. Take care, and hope you are feeling better!

Through each others weaknesses we find comfort.

i know you really, *really* don't want to hear this right now, but your therapist has imposed this rule precisely because he *does* care. friends are, to one degree or another, emotionally dependent on each other. a therapist who is emotionally dependent on a client is failing the client.

here are a few ites to check out, assuming you haven't already burned me in effigy:

http://mentalhealth.about.com/cs/psy...ualrelshps.htm

http://www.therapy-abuse.net/informa...boundaries.htm

http://www.exgc.com/continue/courses/ethics_1.html

even though it feels like he's being incredibly cruel and hurtful right now, he really is trying to help you. he should have been more clear from the beginning on how he viewed his relationship with you, but it sounds like he realized he screwed up and is trying to fix things so he can continue to help you.

i would urge you to give him a chance on this. he can't be your friend, but you could negotiate with him and determine what your therapeutic relationship would be like--how much and what sort of contact you both would be comfortable with, what you each expect of each other and why--that sort of thing. you could also ream him and tell him why you feel so misled and betrayed.

Mary Alice....

Frankly I think you are being unfair to your therapist. You are placing an expectation on them to be your "friend". They are not your friend, they are your therapist. That doesn't mean that they don't care about you. Clearly they chose their profession because they care about people and want to make a difference.

With all due respect I think that you are on a slippery slope here. I recognize the behaviors because I exhibit many of them myself. You have make a decision that you don't think that life is living. Then you behave in such a way as to insure your demise. Pushing your therapist away when they are only trying to help you is one of those behaviors. Although, I think that you rationalize things that if anything did happen to you it would be your therapist's fault and not yours.

Again, Mary Alice I can pick out these behaviors because I exhibit many of them myself. Sorry if I am coming across too bluntly, but it is time to be direct with you. I do so because I care about you and want to help you turn things around.

Things will turn around when you wnat them to turn around. If you have a different vision of the future you will take different actions to achieve that vision.

If you can't do it for yourself right now, do it for your son.

Penna, ty for those links. I did read them.

My idea of having my T as my friend is somewhat different......I have no expectations of socializing with him outside of his office, nor of being a pest by calling 24/7.

All I want him to do is talk to me after I SI..........that's it. Not to condone my actions or even sympathize. Simply to work out with me WHY I did it. I am not able to control the impulses before time to take the few minutes to call him.......the feelings drown out all rational thought and I cut.

I understand about having the dual role thing, and I have no wish for that. I just want him, within time guidelines and his home life, to be willing to speak to me after I harm myself. Nothing more.

I appreciate the links though. They were informative. Thanks.

Mary Alice

Carrie, ty for caring. You have not hurt me in anyway.....the feeling of him refusing to talk to me afterwards is the issue. It's like I have done something "bad", so he is punishing me by not communicating with me.

{{{{{{hugs}}}}}}}}}}}}}}

{{{{{{{{{Heidu}}}}}}}}}}}}} you are so sweet, ty for all those compliments. I treat everyone better than I treat myself for I don't believe that I am worth anything UNLESS I am doing things for others. I have no value in my eyes, just because I exist doesn't give me that right.

You made me laugh about my husband, ty. Your directness is wonderful and very accurate.

I know that I have control over things to a certain extent, it's just the willingness is gone without having someone out here that genuinely knows me and is still my friend.

Mary Alice

{{{{{Val}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}

Ty for wanting to be there.

Mary Alice

Vett, I understand all your thoughts and I appreciate the input.

On alot of it though, I think we are agreeing to disagree.

No, I don't think life is worth living - that is my decision, my choice. If I really wanted things to turn around, I could probably make them, but I have no desire too. I am tired of pushing and fighting to make it so...........just as you were not too long ago.

Ty for caring.

Mary Alice

Dear Mary Alice,
I just finished reading everyone's posts to you and I thought you could use one more hug. {{{{{{{{{{{{{{{Mary Alice}}}}}}}}}}}}}} We are scared for you dear one. You are in a dark, cold place right now and we can't come hold your hand and make sure you are safe. Over the past few months we have grown to care for you, you have become our friend and we don't want to lose you. I just wanted you to know that.
Love,
Carrie

<font color=green>Not knowing when the dawn will come, I open every door.--Emily Dickenson

Mary Alice,
Glad I made you laugh.

Is there anyone else you know in your real life that has no self worth besides yourself?

This is gonna sound so cliche BUT you have to love yourself first before someone can really love you. If it's one thing the past 2,5 years has tought me is that I have to love and take care of myself. No one else will. There are people that care about me but not enough to really show it or be there.

I know what you are feeling Mary Alice. Being in a strange country without anyone is so hard. My husband abandoned me. I couldn't tell family back home. I couldn't afford to make the phone call to hear a voice and I would've lost it if I did. I had met alot of people but didn't really know anyone here.
I had nothing that felt normal and no one. I went to the edge. The very edge. It was between checking in and checking out. I had nothing Mary Alice and no one.

My point. I got thru it. I didn't end it, I didn't give up and now although life isn't great and sometimes it's really hard I am glad I didn't give in. I found there are so many little things to live for.

I don't look at the big picture. I rarely feel sorry for myself. I made mistakes that got me here and I had no control over what happened to me but I do have control over what I choose to do now.

It is taking some time and I am rebuilding myself and I don't always want to keep fighting. Sometimes still I think about just getting it over with because there seems to be no point but I know there is a point. I have to look for it. I have to find something to hang on to. Even if it's small, even if it seems stupid to others. It's still mine. It still means something to me.

You have your son. He loves you unconditionally and completely. That is alot to hang on to. I wonder what it would be like to have someone like that. I don't have kids.

There will come a day when someone will come along that will be a good friend or a good partner. You haven't been looking and you may have already passed someone by because you were too busy shutting yourself off and everyone out. Look up Mary Alice. There are special people all around you, you just have to be ready to accept help and love. You'll never find what your looking for if you stop looking.

Enough for now huh? I am having a pretty bad day myself.
Hugs as always Mary Alice,
Heidu

The highest reward for a person's toil is not what they get for it, but what they become by it.
John Ruskin

i am wondering if maybe your t isn't clear on what you meant by refering to him as a "friend". maybe this is something you could clarify for him--that would be part of defining your relationship.

{{{{{{{{{Mary Alice}}}}}}}}}}}}

I want you to know that I am thinking of you today and know that you will find it somewhere within yourself to climb out. There are so many hands here wanting to help you....we are closer than you may think. Reach inside and stay strong.

{{{{{{{{{{Heidu}}}}}}}}}}}
I had to pop on here to give you a hug too my friend. You seem like you need one too. Hope your day becomes brighter


Heather

"The Pessimist complains about the wind, the Optimist expects it to change and the REALIST adjusts his sails." ~~~author unknown

Mary Alice...

I am at a loss as to what to say to you. And, I know I was at the same place as you are not too long ago. Actually, I am still there, just do a better job of hiding it as it was not getting me any where.

I just wish and pray that both of us can change our perspectives that's all.

Please keep your chin up. Please take good care of yourself.

Thanks Heather, you were right :O)
Heidu

The highest reward for a person's toil is not what they get for it, but what they become by it.
John Ruskin

{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{Mary Alice}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}

I am sorry that life is so hard for you and you are so angry. I wish that I could make it better, but all that I can do is remind you once more that I feel for you, I care about you, and I want much better for you than what you are getting. The thing that I wish the most is that you wanted better for yourself too, because it just doesn't do any good for all of us to wish good things for you if you don't want it. As long as other people want happiness for you more than you want it, it can never happen. You deserve so much more. You treat people who use and abuse you better than you treat yourself. I wish that you could see that you deserve better, and let yourself have better.

Everyone who has already replied to you has said the things that I want to say. I tried to get here last night to find out how it went for you yesterday, but coudn't because my internet connection was down. Now I think I'm glad because everyone else has said it better than I could have.

It sounds like the major issue right now is that you want your T to be your friend, and he is telling you that he can't be your friend because he is your T. It's hard to accept, but he is right about that. I know how easy it is to confuse those roles, because I want my T to be my friend too. Mine was my husband's co-worker and friend before I ever went to him for therapy, and we used to have him over for dinner sometimes and stuff like that. When I started going to him for therapy I had to weigh that and decide whether I wanted him as a friend or as a therapist, because I know that it can't be both ways. When he is my T he can't do the things that a friend would do, and that is a sacrifice, but I needed him more as a T. Now, if I didn't live in a rural area where options for therapy are limited, I probably would not have had a choice, because this was a dual relationship from the start. He might not have been willing to take me on as a client. He's the only one who was able to reach me and to make a difference though.

I don't think that your T made a mistake in being like a friend to you. You needed that - he wouldn't have been able to help you otherwise, right? The reason that none of my previous therapists could get inside my shell enough to help or to even understand me was because I found them cold and impersonal - they were never anything like friends, and a friend was what I needed. But the boundaries have to be there. It seems to you that he is backing off, and in a way he is, but it is for your ultimate good. You need to have real friends, and a T can't be that. It's not an equal relationship. He knows too much about you, which gives him too much power and you could never be an equal in that relationship. I often think it is not fair - my T knows everything about me, and I know next to nothing about him and probably never will.

When he wanted you to try group therapy, I think that was part of the same object - to help you to find people who can be real friends. We on this forum can be real friends because we all share our struggles - one person doesn't have all the power, and we support each other. It goes both ways. In therapy the support only goes one way. That's what you need from therapy, but it is not a good basis for a friendship.

Your T does honestly care about you and want what is best for you. He is still the same person he was, but it would not be fair to you to let you go on without understanding that there is a boundary. Therapy is one of those jobs in which the ultimate goal is for the therapist to work himself out of a job, and no longer to be needed. We all always need to have people we can go to for support, but we need to develop real friendships that are two-way, and mutually supportive. Think about your relationship with your husband. You support him, but he doesn't support you. Many of your other friendships are also like that - people lean on you and don't give anything back. Compare that to your friendships on this site, where you give and also receive support. Which kind of friendships do you feel better about? You can have that in real life too. Balanced relationships are more satisfying all the way around.

I'm sorry that you hurt so much. Any time you want to talk, you know where you can find me. I wish that you felt better - on the inside, not just the functional part of you. You are really special, I'm glad to have you as a friend, and losing you would hurt me more than I can say. I worry about you. Thank-you for being my friend.

xoxoxox
Wendy

<font color=red>"Striving for excellence motivates you; striving for perfection is demoralizing." -Harriet Braiker</font color=red>

Hi everyone, I have some really good news for a change......how ironic for me.

All last night and early today I thought about my T - how important he is to me and how much I truly need him and his friendship - I called him to see if somehow we could compromise and strangely enough, he was typing me an email at the same time.

My T has agreed to letting go of his "rule" for now. He realizes how very much it has upset me and he wants me to know that he IS different from everyone in my life - he cares about ME, whether it is before or after I hurt myself. The only thing he asked from me was that I would try, very hard, to call him before I did anything........but if I couldn't, he would talk to me afterwards.

He expressed some anxiety about his decision because he is worried about me, but he also knew that it has hurt me more to have the rule.

We are friends, in my opinion.......he finally understands what I mean by that and agrees. How absolutely wonderful to know that I do have someone who cares about me and will be there for me regardless of what stupid things I do.

I told him that he would not regret his decision and that it won't encourage me to do it more - just the opposite really. He's THERE for me..........and the relief I felt was so profound.

My T put my scheduled appt back in place for next week.......and because he made me so happy, my day went beyond description today. All I could think about was that I was correct - he does care about me, warts and all.....lol.

I met the Regional Corporate guy today and it went terrifically. Mary Alice was able to concentrate and focus because the world was back on track for awhile. The guy was impressed and said I would do an awesome job in the new store.

Thank you for all your support and trying to make me feel better. Heidu, I am sorry that your day was bad......I feel guilty because I made it worse for you. Please accept my apologies.

These mood swings of mine are sometimes so tiring....lol. I can be on the brink of self destruction and then have my head above water for awhile.

Tonight, I am doing my own internal "happy dance" because I still have the person that means so much to me in my life and there is someone that I can turn to.

Am I out of my hole? No, but the darkness is not quite so bleak today. .

Mary Alice

{{{{{{{{{{{{{Mary Alice}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}} I am so happy for you. You made another step toward wellness. I know you say it still is dark but you stepped up to the edge of the chasm and came back safe and sound. When ever I did that I grew just the tiniest bit more confident that I could make my life better and even (shhh don't tell anyone I said this) happy. And yes Mood swings are a *****. And you know what, they get scarier as you get better because then you really see the vast difference between the highs and the lows. Then you get super motivated to continue getting better.
Carrie

<font color=green>Not knowing when the dawn will come, I open every door.--Emily Dickenson

I'm so glad that you are feeling better about things, (((((((((((((Mary Alice)))))))))))))!! That makes me feel happy, too!

<font color=blue>HI FROM PEANUT</font color=blue>

I've missed you lately, Peanut? you ok?

{{{{{{Carrie}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}} the mood swings terrify me - one minute, one day I want to completely jump off a cliff, then because my T is my friend as well as my doc and accepts me, I step back from the edge.

What happens when one day I don't step back in time? Now I can worry about that........but then, it won't matter.

If he ever walked out completely, like I thought, the feelings that produces is beyond terrified.

xoxoxox

Mary Alice

I am always terrified when I step back from the cliff and realize how close I came jumping off. I think that terror is a good sign, it means that we don't want to jump, that we want to live and that we value the life we have even if sometimes we don't realize that we do. Yeah, it is a good sign.
Carrie

<font color=green>Not knowing when the dawn will come, I open every door.--Emily Dickenson

Mary Alice,
The mood swings must be hell. I have them to but nothing on the degree that some of the people here do and I feel bad for you.
I got thru my day and you didn't make it worse so don't feel bad. BUT I want you to do me a favor. Print the following and place it in your purse or somewhere that you will have easy access to it. When you feel like you have the past few days read it. I might even remind you
Lots of hugs sweetie. I am glad you had a good day and you feel genuinely cared about. You are you know.
Remember, you had a good day, it can and will happen again if you let it. YOU reached out and a good thing happened.
Heidu

"All last night and early today I thought about my T - how important he is to me and how much I truly need him and his friendship - I called him to see if somehow we could compromise and strangely enough, he was typing me an email at the same time.

My T has agreed to letting go of his "rule" for now. He realizes how very much it has upset me and he wants me to know that he IS different from everyone in my life - he cares about ME, whether it is before or after I hurt myself. The only thing he asked from me was that I would try, very hard, to call him before I did anything........but if I couldn't, he would talk to me afterwards.

He expressed some anxiety about his decision because he is worried about me, but he also knew that it has hurt me more to have the rule.

We are friends, in my opinion.......he finally understands what I mean by that and agrees. How absolutely wonderful to know that I do have someone who cares about me and will be there for me regardless of what stupid things I do.

I told him that he would not regret his decision and that it won't encourage me to do it more - just the opposite really. He's THERE for me..........and the relief I felt was so profound.

My T put my scheduled appt back in place for next week.......and because he made me so happy, my day went beyond description today. All I could think about was that I was correct - he does care about me, warts and all.....lol."


The highest reward for a person's toil is not what they get for it, but what they become by it.
John Ruskin