Fear of applying for a job?

Hi all:
I know I've griped about this before, but I still am without answers so I thought I'd try again.

My boyfriend (who is the depressed one - not me - although I'm starting to wonder about myself these days) has been severely depressed in a nonfunctioning way since April. He had had several other bouts of it in the past, but this is the one that just won't go away. His depressed feelings mostly center around his lack of marketability - he hadn't finished his degree (engineering) although he is really really intelligent, and since he had been planning to finish all these years, his part-time jobs that got him through school were not really resume-material.

In June and July, he did nothing but stay in bed all week and either sleep or cry. It was awful. I dragged him several times to a crisis center and got him medication, and he was seeing a therapist once a week, but according to her, he really wouldn't talk much. He just felt like his life was pointless and he had no hope for ever succeeding in anything, so he didn't know why he should bother to try. It absolutely broke my heart and I worried nonstop.

The medication finally started taking visible effect at the beginning of August, and he seems a lot better now. He isn't overly-sensitive anymore, he gets out of bed at a somewhat reasonable hour, and he started doing some of his hobbies again. But, he still can't/won't look for or apply for a job.

Everyone's first reaction when I tell them this is: "dump him; he's a slacker". And really, if I thought he was a slacker that's exactly what I'd do - I'm not stupid. But the thing is, I know that he's not kicking back, watching tv, chuckling to himself about what an easy life he has... in fact, it's the opposite. He is paralyzed with fear about what he should be doing, and is overwhelmed at how to go about getting onto his feet. So he doesn't end up doing anything.

If anyone can get someone organized and give career advice, it's me. I've tried everything - breaking it down into small, manageable steps, helping him do job searches on the internet, helping him with his resume. Suggested part-time jobs, volunteer work, internships, certification courses -- all until I'm blue in the face because he always has some reason why they aren't going to work for him. I eventually found a career counselor for him because at some point I realized that I was making it worse - kind of humiliating for his girlfriend to be holding his hand when it came to his career. He went once then stood her up and hasn't been back. So I know that I have to stop being involved.

That's easier said than done, though (KV - notice how I am breaking up my paragraphs???!!). I really am a nervous wreck about it. My dad is ready to kill him, because my boyfriend lives with me and my dad cannot understand how my boyfriend has such little pride to mooch endlessly off his girlfriend like that. And I can't exactly defend him -- I don't understand how he can allow himself to be dependent on me either. But the times that I've actually asked him that (BIG mistake), he bursts into tears and I realize that he is completely ashamed of himself, but he doesn't know how to get himself out of this mess. He's stuck; completely stuck.

I don't know what to do. I'm totally frustrated. It pisses me off to work all week (especially since I have to travel a lot), only to find out that he hasn't applied for one single job, and as far as I know, he hasn't even looked. I can't give him advice or make suggestions, or else he either seems so overwhelmed that he wants to back to sleep, or he flies into a rage saying that I always complain and that his best efforts are never good enough for him. But face it - are those efforts good enough for anybody? I think I go above and beyond when it comes to giving him the benefit of the doubt.

So, I realize that I can't really help him with the career thing, or even suggest anything to him. My only hope is to try to control my own stress level. I think it would help me to understand how he feels (believe me, I'm trying!) so that the resentment doesn't build up any more than it already has. I'm just trying not to implode. If any of you are in his situation, could you please try to help me understand why this is so hard for him?

Ian is going to be a-ok!

Wow. Thats all I can say about you LMo, is wow. Are you the best person in the world? I'd say so right aboout this point, it is amazing how much you are doing for him even though you think that he is just mooching ro whatever. I am actually copying your post and sending it to my two best friends so that they can understand what its like for me, I am exactly the same person as your boyfriend. I can't really help you, but I know that the advice other people give you can help me and you have allready help me with your post to explain to my friends... THANK YOU, your unbelievable, and no matter how much you get mad at him, and how much you feel he doesn't appreaciate you for working and supporting him, he does, he really really does and your wonderful.


Death Calls Us All, How Long We Prolong It Is Our Choice

LMo, I am also deeply impressed. You are an admirable woman to be so supportive and I imagine it does increase your stress levels, esp. with other people noticing and "trying" to be helpful.

All I can say is that personally when I am depressed I am terrified that I won't be able to do the job, that I will be fired, that they will discover that I really CAN'T do the job. Logically, I know I can do it, but the emotional fear paralyzes me so that I made excuses. I don't know what your boyfriend used to do, or what he is qualified for........but it could just be the fear of failure. To me, that is unacceptable to fail.

Take care**********

Mary Alice

Foolish - that is, by far, the nicest thing that anyone has ever said to me. Thanks. I know he'd do the same for me, so that's some comfort. I also know that no matter how much I or anyone else could criticize him, it's nowhere close to how much he is criticizing himself right now, and that makes me so sad...

But I still don't know what to do to prevent myself from going bizerk

Ian is going to be a-ok!

Thanks Mary Alice - good perspective. I think he feels the same way about feeling that it's unacceptable to fail. Maybe better to NOT try and think in the back of your mind that if you DID try, you'd probably succeed.. but what if you didn't?

This is why I really objected to Ferfa's (wink wink) old tagline about trying being the first step toward failure. It really struck a chord with me -- because that's how my boyfriend feels, I think. It just doesn't make sense to me, as a non-depressed outsider, though. I don't see ANY of his attempts as failures - I'm proud of him for everything he has tried. In fact, I see NOT trying as a bigger failure than trying something and not having it work out. This is going to sound cocky, but I can't even think of anything that I feel like I failed, even if the result is different than I expected or hoped for! Except getting him to get a job (ha ha). I just don't see things that way. That's why I can't understand why it is so hard for him, why he has this paralyzing fear. I think to myself "WHAT failure has he even experienced so far????" -- he is just so hard on himself.

But what do you do to get around it? Do you have any advice for him? For me? (and I'm sorry you feel the same way MA - I personally think you rock!)

Ian is going to be a-ok!

LMo... about all you can do is what you are doing now. Be his cheerleader, be positive, try to help... but don't criticize.

I know I often feel overwhelmed with this depression. Even small steps to do something can be overwhelming. It's good when I have a cheerleader around. someone to at least be there to coax me or coach me. It could be though that your boyfriend needs more help than you're able to give him. Does he have any other friends or family that you might be able to contact to help you in this?

I hope you're taking care of yourself, too. This is stressful for you it sounds like.

LMo, you are awesome.......ty for the compliment

I only try things that I know I can succeed at.......if I fail, I feel worthless and it is all my fault, because I am "defective", and then I really jump all over myself and tell myself what a loser I am. It goes back to my childhood..........had to be A's or A+'s, if it wasn't, what was wrong with me?

This is why I have the nice, efficient outer Mary Alice who is emotionless and can do all kinds of things......it is HER on that resume, not "me". If I were to try those jobs, I would fail - my fears, my emotions would get the best of me and I would not survive it. This is why it has been so hard for me lately after having had the surgery and not being "productive".......I feel like a waste of space/air. No matter that physically I can't do this stuff - I HAVE to do it all to have any self-esteem.

I can't advocate my methods of splitting my personalities, but that is the only way I survive on a day to day basis. When the real me is out, then I simply get swept away by feelings and end up hurting myself.

I hope you find a solution and help him - but with all the support you are giving him, I am sure you will.

Mary Alice

This is really, really, really tough.

With you travelling, and him living in the area of the highest unemployment in the country, why are you staying here?

Is it possible that he could return to school with financial aid and get his degree?

Also, horrible as is sounds to ask, what is your limit? I assume there is a line that will be drawn somewhere, someday, do you have any idea what it will be?

Thank you for the white spaces. It really helps.

Bumper sticker: Wherever you go, there you are

We're staying here because... because this is the best city in the entire world! We just got here a year ago, and really love it - our neighborhood, the bike riding scene (really important to both of us), the Pacific NW in general. I did tell him that if he wants to look anywhere else for a job, I would sell the house and go with him, or we could rent the house out for a while until he was ready to come back. But I think the additional "scope" just makes it more overwhelming for him.

He tried school last fall, and while I was gone for a few weeks, that was when he crashed hard the first time. When I came home, he hadn't even left our small apartment where we had been living, for at least two weeks. I don't dare suggest school again. His answer to that, though, is "it would take too long before I could start working". Now, you and I know that the obvious answer to that is that the sooner he starts, the sooner he finishes, but we're not him...

Good question on the limit. I have no idea. Every time I thought I had set a limit, I fly right past it when he's down. I've surpassed my limit about a hundred times now. I don't really threaten to leave, because 1) I'd probably regret it immediately and want to take my words back, 2) I'd worry incessantly about him, and 3) if he had cancer and couldn't work, I wouldn't leave him -- so why now? I wish I could make myself stop loving him because the OBVIOUS answer is that he isn't very good for me (if I'm just thinking about me, not about us). But I don't want to leave - I just want him to be better and for us to have some semblance of a "normal" relationship. I can't imagine ever finding someone better than he is, depression/joblessness or not.

Sigh.

Ian is going to be a-ok!

Lmo,
Hey sweetie, my heart goes out to you and I think your boyfriend is very VERY lucky to have someone like you in his life.

I think you are doing the right thing by not pressuring him into school or the job market because that seems just to big and I can relate to that feeling of being completely overwhelmed.

However, this is not fair on you and you are having to support him financially as well as emotionally. You are living for two and that has to be so tiring and stressful so first, I send you a hug.

It's obvious he is stuck, way stuck and he can't see a way out and it's very scary. He needs help plain and simple. He isn't going to get better on his own. If he could, he would've by now.

Don't pressure him but tell him how you are feeling. Tell him that you love him and the future you want like you have told us here. Tell him that he can get better but he needs help to do that. Tell him what a smart, good, capable man he is.

Tell him that this can't go on because it's taxing on you and you hate to see him waste his life. The only option is to get help. There is help out there and he can get better. I know you are trying to be good and understanding but sometimes us depressed folk need a loving kick in the butt and some direction.

He has no direction but a qualified person can give him that. Tell him that you love him AGAIN and tell him that the only thing you are asking from him right is to make a commitment to you to get help. You will be there for him, make the appts all he has to do is make a commitment to you to go.

After a few sessions he should be in the swing of things and either want to go back or hate it but at least it was a start. Maybe the person he had before wasn't what he needed. Find someone else. Someone who CAN get him to talk.

Just my thoughts. Now for you, take a moment for yourself now and then and try to relax. You more than deserve that.

Heidu

Though no one can go back and make a brand new start, anyone can start from now and make a brand new ending. ~ Carl Bard ~

A couple of things are coming to me.

(1) You have to take care of yourself. You can't make someone get better if they don't want to and are not willing to make the effort. You are a wonderful person to try and to care about him so much, but I hope you know where your limit is and don't get dragged down from trying so hard and not getting the results you want and just being worn out from all the trying.

(2) Since the medicine is kicking in now, maybe he could start to find some direction. My feeling is that there is probably some reason why he has stayed down so long. If I put myself in his place the thing that I see is I would be frustrated and sick of just trying to find some job to get by with when I know that I have the potential for more. Intelligent people need to be challenged, and if they are not, problems like depression happen.

In fact, I'm seeing myself in this situation. I had been getting more and more depressed each year. When I first got my animals and being a farm hobbyist/homemaker/mom was a new thing that I was learning about, I was okay for a while. Then I reached a point where there wasn't much growing room left in that and I just got more and more depressed. I thought that what I needed was to get recognition for what I was doing and earn money at it, so I got fiber processing equipment and set myself up processing wool and selling it. But that is boring, and my equipment is out in a little shed with only one window and it's isolated out there and lonely and not challenging. I just couldn't motivate myself to go out there and work on processing wool. I was not getting anything done and the depression just kept getting worse.

(I hope that paragraph isn't too long!)

I also had an unfinished degree. I have gone around for 12 years telling everyone how worthless my degree would be anyway because I didn't get into graduate school and can't do anything in my fields with a bachelor's degree. When I decided to try to get into a graduate program, and started to believe that there was a chance, I started to feel better. It's not a smooth road. I'm not in yet - I'm working on finishing up my bachelor's degree and sometimes stumbling around with that - but I think it was the answer I needed.

Sorry about that side trip; now back to your BF.

Maybe just looking for any old job feels pointless to him. He needs a goal that he feels good about, that can make him excited. He will have to find it himself, but you can support him in the search for what he really wants to do. Maybe it is to finish his degree, or maybe it's something else. Only he can tell what it is, and he probably doesn't know right now.

There might be obstacles in his path for doing what he really wants to do and he might think there is no way past them. That was what I thought too. What resources are there that could help deal with the obstacles? Has he tried vocational rehabilitation? Is it possible to finish that engineering degree where you live? I don't know what else, but something has kept him from progressing and he probably feels trapped. There are solutions, but it might take a lot of effort to find them. How does he feel about your relationship? Is he interested in marriage? Does he feel like he is contributing to the relationship? Does he need more space?

Anyway, there are lots of possible answers, and you and he might not like all of them, but try to explore whatever ideas come up and be open minded. Consider more than one solution.

Good luck to both of you!

<font color=blue>Life is filled with tragedy; if you let it overwhelm you, you cannot enjoy life's innocent pleasures. -Robert Heinlein</font color=blue>

You guys are all so great - I'm so touched that so many of you have taken the time to respond to me. Thank you... I'd hug you, but.... nah! (heh heh)

1) I am worn out. I've taken myself to the crisis center twice now (and probably should have gone on at least 3 other occasions) because I feel like the walls are caving in on me. I'm terrified that it's never going to get any better, and that I'll either be stuck in this situation for the rest of my life, or that I'll have to be the bad guy one day and break both of our hearts. We don't have any real friends here yet (as I said, we're new here), my family doesn't understand (they want him to snap out of it and be a man), and his mom lives far away and won't seem to accept that her son has a REALLY BIG problem. I've been worried that he's suicidal and called her, asking her to come out here, but she just says to let her know how he's doing after I've talked to him. Plus, I'm scared for my future. I'm 34 (he's 29). I wanted to be married and have a family by now. He says he wants to marry me and have kids, too, but obviously he doesn't have the same time constraints that I do. And since he doesn't really seem to be trying to get better (he says he is trying... but the logical and measurable steps haven't been taken yet), am I waiting for something that is never going to happen? I certainly wouldn't add the pressure of marriage/family while he's feeling this way, but I'm starting to doubt that he's ever NOT going to feel this way.

2) You know, Rapunzel, I think you're right about him feeling like the non-challenging jobs are pointless. I had previously been thinking that if he had a job, ANY job, that it would boost his self-esteem enough so that he could apply for better ones, but you have a good point that a pointless job might have the opposite effect. I'm going to think about that.

He has so many options to deal with the options, like vocational rehab, as you've mentioned. I've researched them all, got brochures, printed web pages, filled out applications for him... all to make it easier to take advantage of those options. But he never, EVER follows through. I have learned that my efforts to push progress initially alleviate my anxiety level, but then the result is that my anxiety ends up being even higher than it initially was, because now I've added an expectation that he's going to follow through on whatever I set up for him. And it adds more pressure for him, because now he knows that if he doesn't/can't/won't follow through with what I set up, he knows he will disappoint me, but his fear of failing/being rejected is still there, and it's stronger than his fear of disappointing me. So, for my own sake and for his, I have to stop being involved. I know this.

About feeling trapped... I think I feel more trapped than he does right now. I know that I wouldn't feel this much anxiety and pressure if he didn't live with me. Most of my stress is how I know that my parents and friends think that I am a sucker sugar-momma who doesn't realize that he is getting free milk. If he didn't live with me, then it would be much, much easier. I've asked him if he would consider leaving, if he wanted to temporarily move out, and he said it would make it so much worse. And I've thought long and hard about this -- and decided I can't kick him out anyway -- for tough love reasons or selfish reasons, I just can't do it. I'm terrified that he'd end up homeless. That pains me so much to even type the words - he's not someone who should be in this situation! He is so smart, has such a good heart. It really gives me a whole new empathy for homeless people, because I'm sure that all of them had dreams for themselves when they were younger, and life didn't work out the way they wanted it to. How many of them are probably depressed themselves? I imagine most of them...

I have GOT to do some work today. This is exactly what I mean. I can't control his joblessness, but I should at least be able to control my own. But I can't focus on anything other than this, lately. This is why I think I might be going bizerk.

Thank you, all you wonderful people. I have made some really good friends here. I appreciate all of you.

Your friend,
LMo

Ian is going to be a-ok!

... mind you, I'm more just rambling for my own sake so if you want to ignore this post from here forward, now's a good time to go back to doing something more productive! Thanks for listening this far, though!

Back to KV's "codependency" question... I don't want to hog Geekgirl's post, so I'm moving it over here. This is one of the reasons I decided to drop my last therapist. She might have been right and I have seriously given her ideas some thought, but I concluded that she's not the right therapist for either of us. She had this theory that I must enjoy the "power" or else I wouldn't have been attracted to him in the first place, because I have had (as others would see it) a lot of success in my career and he hadn't had any so far when I met him. I think that's a lousy basis for choosing a partner for a relationship, but she seemed to think it said something about me, that I chose to date "below my level". Personally I was really offended that she would see either of us in those terms. I took it to mean that SHE wouldn't date him, and that she was imposing her taste onto me. So, she was calling it codependent - that I don't want to break up with him because I am somehow getting a kick out of being the one with the financial power.

That's why eventually I decided to find a new therapist. I was tired of going over that possibility, and believe me, when a therapist introduces an idea, I do try to have an open mind and see if they have a good point or not. I wasn't looking for someone without a career - in fact, the opposite. When I was recovered enough from my divorce to start dating again, I made a little list of criteria, just so that I would remember the lessons that I had learned the hard way. One of them was to date someone who had a stable career (that wasn't a lesson from the past... just seemed like a good thing to have on the list). My boyfriend obviously didn't have the stable career, but he seemed like he had a good plan and he impressed me in so many ways that I thought that the stable career was just a matter of time. Boy, was I wrong!!!!

Believe me, I do NOT want any power in this relationship, financial or otherwise. I don't want control, I don't want anything other than for us to be equals. I'm not expecting him to make 6-figures or be the president of a company -- I just want him to pull his own weight.

Given how much time I've spent on this topic within the last 24 hours, I guess I need to step up finding my new therapist. I'm going to do that right this moment. Bye!

Ian is going to be a-ok!

This all started out as HIS issue and it is now clearly getting to be YOUR issue.

What happens if you break under the pressure? You could both be out of work in a great city without jobs. I think you had a pretty good grip on this problem a while back, but it seems to this reader to be slipping. Or maybe it was slipping and it is now more noticable.

I am not seeing a very good outcome to the way things look right now.

Perhaps you need to get both of you to a couples counseling session.

I am going to be a mean old parent here and dish out some tough love to you by saying you need to dish out some tough love to him. You can use your chain of love to start dragging him kicking and screaming out of the muck, or he is going to use it to drag you in with him.

Bumper sticker: Wherever you go, there you are

{{{{{{LMo}}}}}}

I have been reading your posts and I did offer you some suggestions before...however I am going be blunt and please try not to take this the wrong way

The thing that is standing out to me is that you are in control of your relationship even though you say you aren't and you say that you don't want to be. Financially and emotionally you are the one in charge. It is up to you to change that...not him. I am getting the impression that from your previous marriage you weren't in control and now you are? If that makes any sense

What you need to do is look at the relationship and make a decision...I know you said that you wouldn't leave him if he had cancer? I know that....but....the only thing he is doing is taking his meds...that is all. You are 34....you mentioned kids....this isn't going to happen if you stay on this treadmill that he has you on.

I am sooo sorry if this is sounding mean to you...I am truly not trying to be so harsh ok? {{{{{{{{LMo}}}}}}}} I just know how hard it is....I was there too before hun and it takes a lot of strength to be where you are. You are strong and you can make the change.



Heather

"The Pessimist complains about the wind, the Optimist expects it to change and the REALIST adjusts his sails." ~~~author unknown

Well, it's BOTH of our issue. Not possible for it to be only one person's issue when we live together! I guarantee that if any of you are depressed, then your spouse or partner has their own anxiety about it as well, even if they aren't on this board talking about it.

I never had a good grip on it. Rather, I have a grip on HIS problem, but don't have a good grip on OUR problem or MY problem. I am the first to admit that I have problems! Mine just doesn't happen to be depression. Mine, right now, is how I allowed myself to get into this situation! And how I can manage my stress level, given the fact that I can't change his condition!

We started out in couples counseling, but then the therapist wanted to see us separately... me for why I was still in the relationship, and for him, why he doesn't get a job. Of course, he is free to keep seeing her if he wants to (but he doesn't - he doesn't think it was helping him).

I don't know how to do the tough love, KV! If I could be guaranteed that it would help him, I would do it in a heartbeat! But there is such a big shadow of doubt that it could do more harm than good... and the last thing he needs is more harm. But hey, I'm willing to try, but I can't figure out the logistics. He doesn't want to leave... so how does one kick out the person you love? Especially if you really don't want them to leave? Do I pack his stuff and sit it out on the curb? Do I find a place for him to live? How do I make it happen? I actually did give a "deadline" at the beginning of June, that he needed to have a job within a month or else start looking for somewhere else to live. It's the only time I ever said such a thing and it was a MISTAKE. It sent him to the worst episode of depression that he ever had.

I don't know how to do it - the advice is good, I guess, but tell me HOW!

crying,
LMo

Ian is going to be a-ok!

Heather, you are one of the nicest people on this board so I would never take what you say the wrong way! Thanks for being honest.

Yes, I know that I AM in control from a financial standpoint, but I don't WANT to be in control!! Please explain what you meant by me being in emotional control, though - I don't see how that is happening, but you might have a good point and I don't want to miss it. I don't think I'm in emotional control at all -- in fact, I see HIM as being in control because he's the one with the power to change the situation, no matter how hard *I* try!

No, my previous relationship was relatively normal. My ex had an affair that he wanted to continue with, so we got divorced. There were probably some control issues (I would expect that every couple has some control issues at some point in their relationship), but I think the only really big one was how it ended - I didn't realize you could unilaterally decide to get divorced, and THAT was a big reality check that I didn't have any control in the situation. Because I didn't! But during the relationship, it was relatively equal, I think. Financially, we did about the same; he had the higher prestige job but I made more money some years (I am a consultant, so my income varies year to year).

You said that it's up to me to change who is in charge (financially and emotionally) -- how do I do that? Honestly, if there is a way, I'm open to it -- just don't know how.

I am not very strong right now but I can make changes... just don't know how to make them.

Ian is going to be a-ok!

{{{{{{{{LMo}}}}}}}}}}

Awww hun...you are answering your own questions...you gave him the ultimatum. You need to stick to it. You don't find him a place....he has to do this for himself. For you to keep doing for him is not helping anyone.... especially you.

I am also getting the impression that he is putting a guilt trip on you..... your words of "It's the only time I ever said such a thing and it was a MISTAKE. It sent him to the worst episode of depression that he ever had." That is not your fault!



Heather

"The Pessimist complains about the wind, the Optimist expects it to change and the REALIST adjusts his sails." ~~~author unknown

Thanks H:
That was one of the really useful pieces of advice that my therapist gave me -- that I have to stop using the language that "I caused him to get worse" based on something I said or did. To be fair, my boyfriend doesn't really lay a guilt trip on me very often.

Okay, but like the last time, let's say for the sake of tough love only, I give him a new date, and the actual day comes and he still doesn't have a job and he still hasn't moved out? What do I do then? Especially since I really don't want him to go -- I just want him to feel better and to get a job! This is why I feel like HE is in control and not me!

I just called a therapist that the crisis center recommended... am waiting for a call back. I feel so terrible today (cry cry cry)

Ian is going to be a-ok!

{{{{{{{LMo}}}}}}}}}

Are we chasing each other here LOL I just go to reply and boom there you are

Thank you for the compliment I am glad you weren't offended.

I think it bothers me when I feel like someone is being taken advantage of and that person is you. I am not judging your bf at all but it just seems like he is at a place where he is comfortable.

About the control comments I made.....

Financial - To change this hun...you need to change your way of thinking.....you need someone more of an equal to you for this to balance out. Is it your bf? That is hard to say...would it balance if he was working? probably... but only you can answer that. However, your answer may help with your decision that i think you need to make.

Emotional - He is relying on you emotionally to hold his hand with the job hunting aspect. That to me is control you have over him. I am also getting the impression that people in his life have always made decisions for him? That is emotional control too....not in a bad way but in a way that is not helpful for him. These are things that he can deal with himself through therapy....it is not up to you to fix.

To make changes there, again, you need to change your way of thinking. You are one strong woman and I know that you have it in you to draw on that strength and literally put your foot down.

When my bf and I started living together...I was just like you....he wasn't working and then we had our son ...he wanted to stay home and look after him as I had to return to work. This drove me crazy beserk as you call it . What changed? He started his own business...I helped him when he asked for help...business planning etc and the most important thing? I kept my nose out of it It has helped our relationship immensely We now have a balance that was never there before and it was a struggle. I gave him the ultimatum or the good swift kick in the butt and it worked.

Like I said earlier...you can only change you.


Heather

"The Pessimist complains about the wind, the Optimist expects it to change and the REALIST adjusts his sails." ~~~author unknown

{{{{{{{{{{LMo}}}}}}}}}}}}}

First things first...change you tagline LMo is going to be A-ok sounds much better

Awww hun I know you love him...that is so obvious. I don't mean that he is laying a guilt trip on you intentionally...unintentionally is more like it.

What you need to do though is to say to him...ok...it is like this.....6 months from now You need to be working....it doesn't matter what job (I know that you feel it is useless with any job but I feel differently on that). Use "I" statements....I am tired of being the one financially responsible.....I need to have the financial burden lifted from my shoulders...that type of thing.

If the date comes it is up to him to have made the changes there...if he doesn't - that is where the toughness has to come in. It doesn't mean that you don't ever see him again and all that.....just that it is the reality check that he needs to see that - ok she is serious this time.

Don't keep tabs on his progress though....just tell him the date (for example - 6 months) and go from there. When you come home from work...tell him about your day....don't ask - Did you find a job? Leave that up to him.

Keep posting hun....I don't want to see you cry {{{{{{{{{{{{LMo}}}}}}}}}}}}


Heather

"The Pessimist complains about the wind, the Optimist expects it to change and the REALIST adjusts his sails." ~~~author unknown

Boom! Here I am again! I can't concentrate on anything else right now, unfortunately.

About whether it would balance if he's working -- I think yes, no matter what kind of job he has. Again, my therapist didn't agree and I tried to reconsider my position about it with hopes that she'd have a good point and that I would learn something about myself. She seemed to think that it wouldn't be enough for him to have a low-paying, low-prestige job. That offended me! I don't think I've ever placed any importance on the TYPE of job my future partner would have... just as long as it's stable and that they are happy. So I think it would be financially balanced if he were working... because I'm not necessarily always going to make the same amount of money as I do right now (probably not, actually... thinking of a career change).

Emotionally... actually, the people in his life didn't make ANY decision for him, and I think that's where the problem started. His dad was never part of his life, and his mom, as nice as she is, had a very controlling father and she swore that she would never be the kind of parent to tell her child what to do. As a result, she stayed out of all of his decisions, and I think the result is that he never learned to set his own direction... hence the floundering. He was, to his credit, on his way with school, but it was taking him a lot longer than it would take other people.

Okay, I'll stop whining. It's clear that I need to take some action here. It just sucks. I already feel overwhelmed with doing everything for both of us and this tough love thing is going to take more emotional strength than I have ever needed. Maybe that's why I haven't done it already.

Thanks all,
Your sad friend,
LMo

Ian is going to be a-ok!

You said "If I could be guaranteed that it would help him, I would do it in a heartbeat!"

You know that can't be guaranteed.

It is a question of possible actions and possible outcomes.

What it looks like right now is the path you are both on is heading toward disaster. He may be commited to the outcome, but why are you going along for the ride?

Ultimately, people mostly create their own destiny. Sometimes you have to let go of one's you love to let them find their own destiny and it may not include you. I have some idea of the stress in this in that I have a teen son wandering a foreign country with no job. You mentioned he might become homeless. This would not be the end of the world. It might be the needed wake up call.

I don't know.... One of the first things you are taught in first aid class is to not make more victims. In other words, when you encounter an emergency situation, take the best care of the victim you can without hurting yourself, too.

Bumper sticker: Wherever you go, there you are

You are so cute! I changed my tagline... see? Also, yours is pretty interesting. I will write that one down... I'm being both the Pessimist and the Optimist.... I used to expect things to change, but now I'm just complaining about why it hasn't... and I think I need to adjust my sails. I like that... thanks!

Okay, is 6 months fair? Is that more than enough time? Too much time? What do you guys think? I feel like I shouldn't set a deadline that is unrealistic, because that will freak him out, and I don't want to set one if I can't follow through - empty threats are a bad idea! So I'd like it to be realistic. Then again, this is frustrating because I think he could have a job in 2 weeks if he really buckled down to it! ARGH!

Here I go again!

Okay, adjusting my sails... going back to my OWN job right now for the rest of the day!

Thanks thanks thanks,

LMo

We are ALL going to be a-ok!

you're right... you're right...



We are ALL going to be a-ok!