I have been in therapy for a year now. We keep going back to forgiveness. How I need to forgive myself for decisions I made in my past that are affecting me today.

I am sick to death of her talking about this! I even told her today that I am tired of it. She said that we would continue to re-visit this because it tends to show up in every part of my life whether I see it or not.

I want her to SHUT UP! Yes, I told her that, too. Not in a harsh way, but I want her to let this go, but she won't. I asked her, "How am I supposed to forgive myself? I don't know how to do that."

The issue at hand is to forgive myself for the hasty decisions I made when I married twice. I did not pause at the red flags, I just plowed right through them. I am paying for those mistakes big time.

If I knew how to forgive myself, I would. But I don't know how. Will someone please help me figure this out? She is going to drive me insane until I get to the root of this. I don't mean this in a bad way against my therapist. She is probably doing what I need the most, but I don't know what to do.

She tells me that I have to dig deep on this and try to figure out why I cannot (or won't allow) forgive myself for what I have done. She asked me, "What would your life look like if you didn't carry around so much guilt? You have carried this weight for so long that you do not even see what it is doing to you. How much better would you feel if you let this go?"

Of course, I would feel better, but I DON'T KNOW HOW TO LET THIS GO!!
Will someone please help me before she drives me crazy!!

[Elli-Beth]

I don't know anything about marriages, but my first little self forgiveness moment came when I realized just how young I was when things started happening that eventually effected my judgement, leading to my major mistakes. Maybe that's how you could look at it? Sure, my last huge crappy mistake was when I was an adult, but I made that choice using skills learned when I was only a very traumatized 10 year old...

I think it's a lot for a therapist to say "you need to forgive yourself" and magically expect it to just HAPPEN.

I know that for me, any gentleness towards myself, any acceptance, any forgiveness, was something that had to slowly slowly develop over time, from deep within ME.

I think that T is an example...he is so gentle with me, and so accepting, and I think seeing him treat me that way helps me understand that maybe it's okay for me to be treated that way, and opens the door to me being able to give that to myself. But, like everything else in therapy (and in life), it is a process, something that has slowly come over time.

I wonder if you can just hear what T is saying...that you deserve forgiveness (or maybe, acceptance?)...know that she truly believes that, and hold it as something that could be possible for you? Instead of expecting yourself to just suddenly get from point A to point Z....maybe notice the B,C,D, as you grow and learn and work towards Z.
to you

[Dr.Muffin]

forgiveness is a tricky issue. i think one of the first things a person can do to begin the process (its definitely NOT a "one and done" situation) is to give him/herself some context. considering and trying to understand all the things that led up to a decision you regret, all the reasons why you felt that this was the right decision at the time, etc. and then offering THAT you some empathy and compassion. rather than making it her fault for being stupid (or whatever the negative messages are when you think about the decisions you regret), making an effort to understand why SHE didnt feel that any other options were plausible.

i struggle with it too....like i said, its a process. you dont either forgive yourself or not. you practice forgiving yourself on a daily basis...and depending on your state of mind or mood, you may have to practice forgiving yourself on an hour to hour or minute to minute basis....

Originally Posted by treehouse

I wonder if you can just hear what T is saying...that you deserve forgiveness (or maybe, acceptance?)...know that she truly believes that, and hold it as something that could be possible for you? Instead of expecting yourself to just suddenly get from point A to point Z....maybe notice the B,C,D, as you grow and learn and work towards Z.
to you

We have been working on this for a long, long time. She talks about how I don't feel that I deserve anything and I feel totally unworthy of anything good happening in my life. She is not forcing forgiveness on me or expecting me to just do it over night. Like I said, we have been working on this a very long time.

We are currently working on my marriage, so of course, this is going to come up. She feels that I cannot heal my marriage unless I learn to forgive myself for mistakes I have made. She says that this keeps me stuck and we need to get me unstuck so that I can heal and move forward.

I told her that make take awhile. Her response was, "No matter how long it takes, it is worth the time and effort you put into it. I am going to be here for you no matter how long it takes."

I know that I cannot heal my marriage all by myself. It takes the two of us (my spouse as well). But she tells me that I can be a much happier person if I learn to accept myself and the mistakes I have made and not keep myself in such bondage because I am not perfect.

I have asked if we can start meeting twice a week over the summer. Not sure that will help, but maybe it will kick start me to getting to the root of some of my issues?

Originally Posted by Squiggle328

We have been working on this for a long, long time....
I told her that make take awhile. Her response was, "No matter how long it takes, it is worth the time and effort you put into it. I am going to be here for you no matter how long it takes."

Yep, I SO get this. I think I am just really getting to the point of accepting myself, SOMETIMES, and I've been with T for 3 1/2 years. I told T at my last session that I just want to be at the END...the part where I accept myself more often than I don't accept myself, where I can share what I've learned to help other people, all of that....without all of the work in between. He was like "I KNOW". (he's in therapy too)

I like what your T said. It helps to know that they're in it with us for the long haul.

[SpiritRunner]

Self-forgiveness, compassion on yourself, that's an ongoing process.......and sometimes you can, sometimes you do, but then sometimes you don't and you need to find your way back to it......
It's about accepting what you cannot change, that being the past or others' actions or attitudes, accepting that you did the best you could with what you had at the time - as my T often says to me, to just accept that it was good enough and to move on and do the best I can now.....
Self-acceptance, self-forgiveness go together so much.....accepting yourself as not perfect, accepting that you've made mistakes, that's a step toward forgiving yourself for making them. I find myself stuck in the acceptance part because I haven't let go of the shame and the guilt like I need to.....letting go of those burdens is necessary in forgiving yourself.
But I think of this too, if God has forgiven me whatever real mistakes I made, for whatever wrongs I have done, how can I not forgive myself.....

[swimmergirl]

Squiggle...............

I am definitely not an expert on this. I agree it is a process and may take you some time. Try to look back at that time and realize that you did the best with what you knew at the time. Even if that "best" was not so great. Look at the progress you have made. Think of the person you love the most. Whoever that is............would you forgive them? Or work towards that..........if they wronged you? You should treat yourself with at least that much love and compassion. I know it is tough tough tough. It might also be something about control, that is accepting that we don't have control over everything. If someone wrongs us(in some situations, I am NOT talking about trauma) it is easier to blame ourselves..........we should have been able to stop it, change it, whatever than accept that we were a victim. With forgiving ourselves, it is the same thing for some...............we should have been able to control the situation..........made it different. Done better. Thought smarter. What if? What if? It is easier to blame ourselves than accept the loss of control in our lives. Be gentle with yourself..............this is a struggle for many people in therapy.

[sittingatwatersedge]

Squiggle

I had resoved to keep out of this thread, since this is such a huge and painful issue with me - but your last post was so familiar to me that I just thought I would put in a word.

There is no forgiveness for me in myself; for all others I can make allowances and give the benefit of the doubt, but I am IN HERE and I know this person, I can't gloss over anything.

T says that I have to get to know the SAWE of the years that i did those things that I hate myself for, and as I become more familiar with that time and that SAWE, I can develop some compassion for her. apparently this can be the beginning of forgiveness. Empty chair, hypnosis, meditation, art, whatever will get you back in time, apparently.

about the marriage situation boy do I know this one - but I realize that marriage is a coupling of two people, and when one of the two changes, the relationship changes - has to. So as you continue to heal and grow, there will be effects in the marriage too.
Many gentle hugs for you, my compassionate and kind friend

[Sannah]

I'm thinking inner child work?

My appointment is tomorrow (31st) and I still do not have the assignment done. Why do I feel that I do not deserve to be in therapy? I don't know, but I still don't feel that I deserve to be there.

I guess I feel like I am taking up a session that someone who really needs help could be taking. That makes me feel really bad for some reason.

One thing I have noticed I do. I am not bothered at all that she has other clients. But when she talks about clients coming before me, or after me that bothers me. Why? the one who came before me.....I feel like she is worn out and doesn't want to hear me whine about my issues. She is probably wishing I would shut up so that she can have a break before the next client comes in.

For the one who comes after me, I am thinking she wants me to hurry up so that she can get to the next client who really needs help and is worthy to be there. I know this sounds dumb, but I feel this way. I don't feel that I deserve to be taking up her time. I wish I could snap out of this, but I don't know how.

When I think about what I am doing to myself, it makes me cry. Why? I am crying for that inner child who wants to heard. She wants to feel that she matters. I hurt for that child. I want her to feel worthy, but I don't know how to help her. She does not feel worthy of anything. She feels like she is hiding and wants to be invisible, yet she is screaming for someone to find her.

[dizgirl2011]

Hi Squiggle,

This is a lot of pain to carry around and it sounds very difficult for you - huge hugs!

I just want to respond to your last post first.

I want you ask if you trust your therapist and her judgement in helping you? My guess is that you do, at least most of the time and that you value her support.
If your Therapist thought that you didnt need help, do you not think she would make the decison to have told you this and probably discharge you long ago? But instead she sees someone who needs and deserves help and this is why she is telling you she is going to be there for you as long as it takes... which I think is pretty great and shows she believes in you and that she believes you deserve her help to feel better.
Also please remember that your Therapist is trained to do what is best for herself and her clients, so if she felt she needed a break between clients all she has to do is adjust the appointments times but she obviously feels competent to work with the timetable she makes for herself and her clients. You don't need to worry about this, honestly

I think for a lot of us self forgiveness is a struggle because we forget that actually we are only human and mistakes are a natural part of life....we all make them, theres not a single human on the planet that hasn't make mistakes. It's only by making mistakes sometimes that we learn.

As someone else said, we all make decisons that we believe are the best for us and others at the time we make them, we don't set out to get things wrong or make mistakes either, they just happen because we aren't able to look into the future and see if the outcome of our decison is going to be good or bad. If we life would be a lot easier hey?

take it easy hun

[sunrise]

Squiggle, I'm working on forgiveness now too in therapy. I made the same huge, c**ppy mistake twice in my life. I am more able to forgive myself for the first time, when I was young and didn't know any better. But the second time is more of a problem for me. I don't know how I will work this out. I haven't given up, though, and I hope through therapy I can somehow come to terms with this. I am reading a book now that has a chapter on forgiveness. It is about forgiving another person, but I am hoping it may help me learn something about forgiving oneself.

Originally Posted by Squiggle328

She tells me that I have to dig deep on this and try to figure out why I cannot (or won't allow) forgive myself for what I have done. She asked me, "What would your life look like if you didn't carry around so much guilt? You have carried this weight for so long that you do not even see what it is doing to you. How much better would you feel if you let this go?"

To me, this doesn't seem that helpful. Can you ask her again for help with this? Maybe she can tell you some ways other clients have reached forgiveness. Telling someone to "let it go" without giving ideas for how, just seems kind of incomplete. She is the therapist--I think she must have ideas how to do this? I wonder if it would help if she looked at what you did and forgave you for it? Maybe it would help to hear your T say she forgives you. I don't know--just grasping at straws. I would like to hear her suggestions to you.

Originally Posted by Squiggle328

She says that this keeps me stuck and we need to get me unstuck so that I can heal and move forward.

Whenever I hear the word "stuck", I think EMDR. Have you tried it?

[Suratji]

Originally Posted by Squiggle328

I have been in therapy for a year now. We keep going back to forgiveness. How I need to forgive myself for decisions I made in my past that are affecting me today.

If I knew how to forgive myself, I would. But I don't know how. Will someone please help me figure this out?

She tells me that I have to dig deep on this and try to figure out why I cannot (or won't allow) forgive myself for what I have done. She asked me, "What would your life look like if you didn't carry around so much guilt? You have carried this weight for so long that you do not even see what it is doing to you. How much better would you feel if you let this go?"

Of course, I would feel better, but I DON'T KNOW HOW TO LET THIS GO!!
Will someone please help me before she drives me crazy!!

Well, I wish I knew the answer. But, I have another take on it and I keep coming back to the thought that I shouldn't be rid of the guilt or shame. I really don't believe that I should forgive myself. I keep thinking that it's presumptuous for me to forgive myself. My T is working with me on this also but I really think that it is something I will never achieve - self-forgiveness.

And part of me thinks that's o.k. I mean, why should I beat myself up that I can't forgive myself? I screwed up; I should accept that I screwed up - I don't need self-forgiveness - to me that would mean that it was o.k. that I screwed up. I don't want it to be o.k.

I'm probably making it worse for you Squiggle - if you find the way to even acknowledge that self-forgiveness is o.k., I'd love to hear about it.

[Suratji]

Originally Posted by Squiggle328

My appointment is tomorrow (31st) and I still do not have the assignment done. Why do I feel that I do not deserve to be in therapy? I don't know, but I still don't feel that I deserve to be there.
"Deserve:to merit, be qualified for, or have a claim to (reward, assistance, punishment, etc.) because of actions, qualities, or situation: to deserve exile; to deserve charity" How about 'being qualified for because of a situation'? Then, of course, you deserve!!!!

I guess I feel like I am taking up a session that someone who really needs help could be taking. That makes me feel really bad for some reason.
somehow or another, I suspect that people who really really need help will find a therapist. I know many a therapist who could use more clients in order to keep their business solvent.

When I think about what I am doing to myself, it makes me cry. Why? I am crying for that inner child who wants to heard. She wants to feel that she matters. I hurt for that child. I want her to feel worthy, but I don't know how to help her. She does not feel worthy of anything. She feels like she is hiding and wants to be invisible, yet she is screaming for someone to find her.Here it is - your answer. You 'deserve' to be heard, just like all of us. Let's embrace that idea/feeling/thought wholeheartedly.

Maybe you can go in tomorrow and not analyze; not find all the reasons why you think you don't deserve or why this or why that or why anything else.

Maybe go in and just 'feel' and touch that deepest part and let that part emerge slowly and that part is the part that is hiding and will speak when ready.

[jazzy123456]

forgiveness- what a powerful word. a word that can reverse everything in ones life...a word that carries so much weight...so much pain yet, so much freedom.

forgiveness, I haven't yet figured out how to completley forgive myself...
but, I do know it starts and begins with loving yourself unconditionally...
unwavering,

to not base self love on what you do...or what we've done
but, on who WE are, how far we've come, who we are Becoming..
and where we're going...

life doesn't give you destinations...
only routes, voyages, barren roads, isolated cities...

and on our way, society teaches us to love ourselves based on our performance,
accomplishments, the jobs we have, the familes we raise.
However, sometimes loving yourself for the quirky inconsistiencies,
the way you fight through the hardest circumstances,
the way you are unique and their will NEVER be another you...

sometimes self-love is all about simplicity...

having faith that we are better and greater than we give ourselves credit

forgiveness-- a word that cannot be given to others without first exploring what it means to establish self-love in our personal life.

I believe self-love is the bridge to self-forgiveness but, that doesn't mean the roads aren't rocky on the way there.
The tunnel is always dark but, light illuminates with hope on the other side for those who don't give up.

PUSH THROUGH...

its time for us to stop feeling guilty for being human, vunerable, REAL people, with real stories,
alive and surviving...life doesn't give us a playbook on the way. We have to make up the rules,
Therfore, we do get it wrong sometimes and we will continuously. Moving on is what counts,
its what will get you to the other side of the field.!

(((hugs)))

hmmmmmmmmmmmmm...just my thoughts... I'm still thinking... the answer to this question will be a life long journey for me...

[sittingatwatersedge]

Originally Posted by Suratji

why should I beat myself up that I can't forgive myself? I screwed up; I should accept that I screwed up - I don't need self-forgiveness - to me that would mean that it was o.k. that I screwed up. I don't want it to be o.k.

I go around, and around, and around with this.

the most helpful thing I have found, by FAR, is something that our own Treehouse once said (Pardon the paraphrase, Tree)

I can't say that what I did was OK - it was not OK;
but I can say that it's over,
and that today is OK,
and that tomorrow will be more OK.

For me, the being over part is not an achievement of my own, it's purely a result of God's kindness and mercy.
And as far as today and tomorrow, if these are to be OK and more OK, I know very well that I will need help all the way, and His grace will always be there if I reach for it.

I am trying to sit with these thoughts a lot now, hoping that they will be the key I have been looking for. Perhaps helpful to you also Squiggle (and Suratji and Sunny and all of you )

I am trying to think good thoughts to calm down the anxiety that is raging. My appointment is in 2 hours. Why do I put myself through this every week? Why do I put such agony on myself? Is it really worth it?

[SpiritRunner]

thinking of you today, squiggle! yes, unequivocally yes, it is worth it! you need to be on this journey toward finding space for self-forgiveness in your life, toward self-acceptance and grace. Let God's grace come over you and let yourself believe you are forgiven.....and since you are already forgiven in that sense, let yourself have the same spirit toward yourself as God has toward you!

[Sannah]

Originally Posted by Squiggle328

My
I am crying for that inner child who wants to heard.
She wants to feel that she matters.
I hurt for that child.
I want her to feel worthy,
but I don't know how to help her.
She does not feel worthy of anything.
She feels like she is hiding and wants to be invisible,
yet she is screaming for someone to find her.

Who ignored this girl?

Originally Posted by Sannah

Who ignored this girl?

That's a good question. I guess I did? I knew she was unhappy. I knew she wanted out. But I did nothing to rescue her. It is totally my fault.

[Sannah]

Who else? It didn't start with you. You learned this from someone else.

Originally Posted by Sannah

Who else? It didn't start with you. You learned this from someone else.

Well, my mom never got her needs met either. She never complained. She kept in the shadows. I never saw her get upset or angry even though I knew she took a lot of pills. Didn't know what they were back then, but they were antidepressants and meds for anxiety.

Maybe this is why she always seemed so calm? I feel that her needs were ignored. She was basically ignored in a family of 5 children who needed her and a husband who needed her just as much. we did not intentionally ignore her, that just happened with a family of our size. Mom took care of everything. That is just how it was.

Could I have learned this from her? Be quiet and keep to yourself? Do not ask for help? Don't let others see you cry? Be strong in the face of company? She didn't intentionally try to teach me that, but I guess that is what I learned from her. Never show your emotions. She never did. She always put herself last. I tend to do that. I guess I am following in her footsteps?

My therapist says that I always put myself last. I put the needs of everyone else before mine. Well, I kinda have to. Taking care of a quadriplegic spouse has to come first!

This is a hard question to answer. Who ignored me? Thinking back, in my first marriage I was ignored big time. He was quite arrogant and he came first. He did not spend much time with me and the kids at all. When I married the second time, I ran into the same problem. After this happens twice, you get used to being ignored.

That does not make it any easier, but this is just how it is. I do feel invisible most of the time. Except for when somebody needs something. But who doesn't feel like this? I cannot sit around and be a cry baby! Life goes on no matter how I 'feel'.

[Sannah]

Interesting how to answer this question you started talking about your mom. Did you deflect this question away from yourself? When you brought the question back to yourself you skip your whole childhood and start with being married.

Your mom had mental health issues and 5 children. Any chance your needs were ignored in your family?

My physical needs were met adequately by my mom. I had clean clothes and food. I was still neglected, however. Never once did I get the message from my mom that I was important in any way.

Originally Posted by Sannah

Interesting how to answer this question you started talking about your mom. Did you deflect this question away from yourself? When you brought the question back to yourself you skip your whole childhood and start with being married.

Your mom had mental health issues and 5 children. Any chance your needs were ignored in your family?

My physical needs were met adequately by my mom. I had clean clothes and food. I was still neglected, however. Never once did I get the message from my mom that I was important in any way.

Your question was implying that I may have learned this from someone else. I was trying to think of anyone in my life that I may have learned that 'ignoring your own needs' was okay. The only person I could think of was my mother. She put others first all the time. Including her kids.

My mother was always there for me. I never felt neglected by her at all. She was involved with all aspects of my life (school, church, sports, girl scouts, etc...) Much more than I can say I have been with my own kids. I feel somewhat guilty that I am not for my own kids, what my mother was for me. Even today, I know that no matter what I might be going through, my mom will be there to support me.

I don't have any negative thing to bring up about my childhood. I have very fond memories of my childhood. (Other than the molestation by my best friend's father when I was 10 years old.)

My biological father died when I was 2 years old. I never knew him. He was in the marine core and was gone most of those 2 years. I don't remember him at all, so that can't have anything to do with any problems I may have now. My mother remarried when I was 6 years old. He is the only father I have ever known. I don't like to call him my step-dad. He WAS my dad. He was very good to me.

I do have the tendency to deflect away from myself, but not sure that I did this in this situation.