Bad session :(

It's always such a physical reaction...I shutdown so fast. I just took the time right now to try and figure out what goes on in my head when I do it. Apparently that.

Just thought I'd remind you of this part. I hope it makes you feel better to remember that. I think you probably have so much time left that it will seem like practically forever. Like someone said, for an 8 year old thinking about loosing his parents is scary, but he still has 10-15 Years before he's stable enough to live without his parents.

Thanks learning

You've said several times that you can't take it. Well, you got through the day, and your pain didn't kill you. That much pain with no further reassurance from your T, and you are still alive and kicking. Maybe this will help you to trust your ability to endure extremely negative feelings and deep pain. Hell, you even went to work.

Suffering isn't fun. That's why it's suffering. I have found that when I am in incredible emotional pain, it only increases the pain to tell myself I can't take it. Some irrational mortality fear kicks in. On the other hand, if I can tell myself that it sucks horribly but I've made it through worse and that however I'm feeling will definitely pass, the panic doesn't rise the same way. The pain doesn't snowball on its own.

Quite a lot of suffering has resulted from therapy, but, honestly, pain is my best teacher, so I'm far less avoidant than I used to be. And I know that a therapist who shields me from pain that can teach, isn't worth his or her salt. So, do what you can to make certain this crisis isn't wasted. Learn everything you can possibly glean about yourself from it, and give serious thought to how you can handle these circumstances the next time they arise.

Although it ended traumatically with mt T, even he slowly over time introduced this material. Otherwise, I would have dissociated and not been able to process anything. This is the problem mayne with lost, when you dont process it gets stuck and cant be integrated. NOW when his T brings up the subject again, because hshe was overwhelmed it has the possibility of getting worse. I think his T dumped everything on her at once, and he isnt there now for her to process it. Jmo

Lost,

I didn't read through all the pages of this post but I did see some posts on not knowing if you should be attached to your t or not.

This is my analogy of how attachment (which I have issues with) worked. It was like a blankie that a toddler cares around. When I first started T and became attached to my T, he was like my blankie. I needed him (and boy I didn't like it) but over time as I became more stable more confident with myself... I realized that I could "lay my blankie aside" to "play"... every so often, I would go back pick up my blankie and cuddle and realize okay its still here and was able to go off again. The times between grew longer and longer before I would rush back as I got stronger.

Now when I was sick or hurt, I needed my blankie (crisis) but when that passed I was able to go back to routine.

That is what I think your T is hoping you will realize. That just like a blankie, you can lay him aside and live your life and when you need him. he will still be there. He doesn't just disappear when you don't see him.

Hopefully, you two can examine where your abandonment issues come from and how YOU can help meet those needs yourself.

You also need to remember, this topic came up because YOU asked him a very specific question about why he is so important to you. He replied with an honest answer to YOUR question. What was your fantasy answer? Because when you ask a question like that, you need to understand that the answer your T is going to give you will be honest, will not be your fantasy, and will serve to help you understand the reality of yourself and your situation. That is what happens in therapy.

You keep saying things like why did he do this to you, or saying you know he didn't intentionally do this, etc. He didn't DO this to you at all; he simply gave an honest answer to YOUR question and when it didn't match up with whatever fantasy response you had going in your head (you've been thinking about this question for several days prior because you wrote about it here on PC), you shut down.

His job is not to indulge your fantasy. His job is to help you face reality and grow towards health and independence. That is what his answer was to you and you didn't like it. Your job now is to "hear" his answer in its entirety and learn from it rather than run from it. He said this is going to take time; this isn't going to happen overnight, but it also isn't going to happen if you refuse to "hear" his message. Start listening Lost. You CAN learn to hear and tolerate the truth from your T. You CAN control your reactions so you can slow yourself down enough to listen.

I actually wanted him to explain about our attachment. I asked him.. Why do I look up to you so much? What caused it to happen in the begining? How did I get where I'm at now with you?

He didn't answer those.

I know the attachment is hard and confusing and messy. Me and my T talked a lot today about trusting life...very hard to do I know, but I wonder if this applies to you as well. You got where you are for a reason, you feel how you feel about T because it's what you need on some level, and when the need lifts (which is will, because that's the nature of life) you will be in an easier place.

I know it is painful right now but I wonder if you're over-thinking everything. I used to do this myself and tie myself in knots. Actually I probably still do it. Thinking isn't bad, but there comes a time to let it all go and be what it is. Let the attachment be...god I so need to take my own advice on this...and eventually it will become easier and make more sense. T is there for you as a therapist, he can't be anything else. I know that's hard. But the therapy relationship is a special one and is no less real than anything else, it's just different.

One day you will feel stronger.

I rarely think about our attachment. I usually just enjoy the ride because I'm thankful for what I have with him. In fact I felt so good about our relationship it's what lead me to wondering about our attachment. I'm going to let it be I don't want to know anything anymore.

A very very small part of me wants to ask him to help me keep going with this on Thursday. I think he CAN help me work through my attachment issues but it will take a lot of time. The rest of me knows I shouldn't because I already struggle badly on weekends. I went off my meds and I'm even less prepared to handle it. Idk what I want to do yet. I'm not sure what he will want to do either.

I wonder if part of the challenge for you in the midst of these discussions with your T is to pay attention to the relational aspect of what you are doing with T, and being mindful of that. The relational challenge for you might be to be able to respect the boundaries that your T lays out for you and to be able to accept what he offers you, even if it isn't everything you want it to be. Are these things that are hard for you in everyday relationships-- do people tell you or act as if you are asking too much of them, is there an imbalance in some way between what you give and what you ask for? [rhetorical questions, you don't need to answer] It just seems to me that part of what your T wants you to do is to engage with him in a more mindful and relational manner, and maybe that is something that you need in your relationships outside of therapy too. That in building stability with your T relationship, you are also building stability with relationships outside T. As you learn to tolerate the inevitable changes with T, you can tolerate the inevitable changes in relationships over time in your real life.

Just like every other relationship, T isn't always only about you. T is the other person in the relationship, and learning to respect what he is asking you to do, what he is asking you to consider, is a very fundamental task in all human relationships. People you are close to are going to ask you to change, they are going to ask you to accommodate them, they are going to tell you things you don't want to hear. To have happy and successful relationships, you have to be willing to engage in these discussions, and not just run away from them.

But lost has been processing it extensively, so this doesn't hold water for me. She may not have been able to do it in the moment, but look at the careful thought and detailed description she has given of how she experienced this event. This is all incredibly useful information for her, and she wouldn't have any of it if she hadn't been forced to examine herself by pain.

There's a saying in Alanon that "It's not on a good day that we see ourselves." So I say forge on, lost.

I know that lost will make it through beautifully. I'm backing out of this as it is to triggering for me, but lost, I wish you the best.

So I've been in total crisis since Monday. I even broke down in called him yesterday. Something I've never done in a year of seeing him. I'm spiraling downward and idk why. I woke up to a text from him wanting to know how I was doing today. I told him how defeated I was. He told me that I shouldn't be, and to try and see the reality. But I keep just going down. I'm afraid to see him tomorrow. Idk what he's going to do or say. Idk if its even going to help. I'm just too low right now. I feel hopeless.

I couldn't read the whole thing cuz of eyestrain. but I kinda agree with lost, you weren't asking to be blown out of the water. but - why are you off your meds now? is that planned or impulsive?

still, his long answer feels a little hostile to me. it's like he's setting himself up to have a crappy, multiple-calls weekend. like what's his problem? happy rosh hashanah, buddy!

Impulsive. I just haven't stopped spiraling and its out of control. He's really getting hit hard and he probably isn't even putting any of it together. I don't want to see him tomorrow. I don't want to hear about how unstable I am. I don't want to hear about texting him 10x a day. I don't want to be reminded about how bad in doing. If he brings up the hospital I'm not going to be very happy.

It might be helpful to look at how much of your behavior is an effort to punish him for saying something that you didn't want to hear & how much is really uncontrollable. Because the answer for uncontrollable is the hospital. Seriously.

What is it that he should be "putting together"? It would be much better for you if you didn't impulsively go off your meds. Is this what you want your T to figure out or is it something else that you want him to put together? If you haven't already, please let him know you have gone off your meds again. If he suggests the hospital please at least hear him out.

I really don't even care what happens right now. I don't care what he thinks or what he says. He doesn't have to put anything together because I don't even like him anymore.

I've been reading this thread, but I haven't responded because I sense a kinship with the emotions you're feeling and how you're reacting. I've felt some of that intensity and spiraling.

I just hope that when you are in a more stable place that you are able to come back to this thread, read it, and hopefully learn from it for the future. I cannot at all claim to understand how bipolar feels, but I know for me that I have finally come to a point where I know I can do things differently even if I'm not presently choosing to. It's taken a long time, and hopefully leads to being able to consistently make different choices.

Lost, I know you are here, but I would like to address the following issue.

I am in a good place at the moment. I am asking the people who are posting and telling lost that she asked the question, so she deserves the response, or that she needs to be ready to listen to what T has to tell her because T is trying to help her become independent, to please hear me out.

I'm not disagreeing or agreeing with anyone here. I think the advice that I spoke above that was given is sound advice, just not for someone who's major fear is abandonment and someone who is not being given a choice and has to stare her greatest fear right in the face. I am sincerely, out of concern for lost and because of what I went through, I am truly requesting that people at least consider what I have to say. And yes, my prior termination experience is involved here, but I am now in a good place and I think that what I say here matters.

Lost does not appear to be in a place to hear what some people are saying. This truly appears to be a crisis, to have a possible abandonment scenario laid out before you and for you to 'feel' that it is inevitable, and that you will have NO control over it, is horrifyingly horrifying. It is a reliving of whatever happened when trust was broken, it is a reliving of somehow having your soul abandoned. This might be why she is escalating right here on PC. Not taking her meds. is a sign that she is not in a good place. If you have to stop taking your meds. to prove how traumatizing this is, I think it is sad, I really do. Lost, I know you are in pain. I wish I could help you.

I am asking that all consider what I am saying. I think all advice was good advice, I just think that some of it was not given at the right time.

Sometimes people post for support and if they don't get what they want to hear it's a problem, I get that. BUT Lost does not appear to be in a place where she can even consider what feels like abandonment because that feeling feels like your whole self is about to face destruction. If I am reading her posts correctly, it is NOT a matter of self-control, it is NOT a matter of her not being a good therapy client and not appreciating that her T is trying to help her be independent. This is a product of being retraumatized, and the fear from that is real and intense.

I will be asking some of you independent - supporters for pointers at a later date, I might be in a place to hear your advice at some point. Anne, I have read some of your posts, and I usually don't understand them because I wasn't at the point that I could hear them. I wasn't choosing not to hear them because it wasn't what I wanted to hear, I had/have defensive structures up that keep me from contemplating your points. I know in the future, what you say will make more sense to me. I think Lost has not yet reached the point where I am, and I am still not fully ready to hear the independent support tips Soon, though. I hope I made sense, I hope I made a difference.

I feel like everything is falling apart. Like every reason I had to not give up is just gone. I feel like T won't understand, and I just shouldn't go in the morning.

Idk..none of this makes sense anymore.

Very well written, Antimatter....and I agree that Lost may not be in a position to receive the feedback that is given.

It leaves me wondering what would be considered helpful to Lost....other than "I'm sorry you're hurting", anything else would seem either disingenuous or a form of enabling/supporting damaging behavior.

But you're still going to go, right?

You will not feel better if you give up.