Marriage may need to end: enormous grief and sadness

Thanks, everyone.

@divine1966, thank you. I agree. My friend was waaay off based. i am talking to her again today and will correct her. It's not like I don't love him enough, it's that there's so many issues, each of which can be a dealbreaker. And thank you about the job... it's very disappointing!!!

@RockyRoad007, thank you.... I am pretty sure he would have to be on disability in order to receive alimony, but I will check with a lawyer when I call. He is working full time and is not out of work on disability. It didn't scare me per se, but your post did make me think. It's ok, no worries there. And thank you as well about the job loss.

@MsLady, thank you for the hugs! Though it hasn't been two years of an uphill battle. It's been off and on. I don't mean to sound mean by saying this, but you yourself have been with a toxic partner for six years. I don't think you're married to him, but you share children, right? It's hard to just up and leave, as you personally have experienced or have decided for yourself. And it does take planning. And like I said there were six months after we married where I was happy and content. It's confusing at this point, but I am trying to keep a clear head, know my boundaries and limits and make a decision with a clear head. I am not rushing into a decision. It's a marriage, it's a life we built together. And I do love him.

God may have given me what I "needed' for personal growth, but he didn't give me what I wanted. I should have said "you know what I want" instead of "you know what I need".

And on that note, I am having a really hard time with this decision. Like last night when he was coming home, I was excited to see my husband. And then he was so cute and endearing all night with me that I felt heart pangs. He has no clue what i am going through right now, and I felt sick to my stomach over it.

IF I do leave him, it's really going to be completely heart wrenching, and I know I will break his heart and that he will be devastated. I also know that I do need to think of myself in this equation.

I wish this wasn't so hard. I am definitely torn.

And I haven't told my parents a single thing about any of this. I am keeping this from them. I don't want their influence, OR for them to try and take control over the situation, which is what they will do. They try to tell me what to do. It's just another headache I don't need, but I wish I could just talk to them about it.

Even if your spouse works and is able to work and isn’t on disability if your income larger than his, if he fights for alimony or for lump sum settlement, he could win, sometimes if you have investments (which you sayd you don’t) and they get half of that you might not pay alimony. Of course not everyone asks for alimony but if they do, they might get it.

But overall any time you marry someone who makes significantly less than you or worse don’t work at all, you risk to be on a hook for spousal support.

I know many people, both men and women, who ended up paying alimony for 5 years, 8 years, 10 years and in some cases of spouse being disabled (they could become disabled later in a marriage) you’ll pay until SS age. Any time they can show that everything purchased or leased is by you, it makes you look like a sole provider. Courts believe “disadvantaged” spouse deserve same life style they had during marriage until they can stand on their own two feet (if they ever could)

I am not trying to scare you but getting married isn’t about how wonderful was the wedding or how much fun was honeymoon. You need to know everything there is to know about the person including their health condition and most certainly finances and earning potential, and their expectations of marriage. Are they expecting you to support them, buy stuff for them and are you ok with it? You need to know this stuff before you enter legal agreement of marriage and if you discover more stuff during marriage you have rights to re-evaluate and protect yourself

That's why I say I was stupid. I didn't look into any of that and did not know any of this before we got married. I had no idea. STUPID STUPID STUPID.

He doesn't make pennies for a living. He makes a decent living, but yes, less than I do and I've paid for most things.

I will speak with a lawyer. NOW I am scared.

My sister is a lawyer and has been divorced. I just called her and am waiting for her to call me back.

I looked up alimony laws in my state:

- for marriages lasting less than five years, alimony will last no more than 1/2 the length of the marriage
- for marriages that lasted between five and 10 years, alimony can’t exceed more than 60% of the length of the marriage

"... the requesting spouse must demonstrate a need for financial support and that the other spouse can pay."

"Judges may award rehabilitative support in cases where the lesser-earning spouse can become financially independent but needs financial support while working to obtain job training or education to enter the current job market. Rehabilitative alimony is temporary, and the court will only order it for the amount of time it will take for the supported spouse to become financially independent.

Reimbursement alimony is common in marriages where one spouse financially contributed to the other’s career or educational advancement. For example, if one spouse helped pay for the other’s medical school during the marriage, the court may order the recipient of the degree to pay back the spouse who contributed.

Transitional support is a periodic or lump-sum payment by a higher-earning spouse to help the supported spouse settle into a new lifestyle or location after the divorce. Transitional support is only available in divorces where the marriage lasted less than five years."

So he would have to request alimony payments and prove that he needs it for transitional support, or rehabilitative support.

He works full time and makes enough to support himself if he got a roommate.

Honestly people who paid alimony to their spouses were married ten years or more. I never heard of less than that. I was just warning you if you do stay long time and then decide it’s not working. You wouldn’t be paying nothing now

Didn’t he receive monetary settlement from his ex wife? She was making much more than him

If he makes decent living, then you need to stop paying for more than a half. You aren’t sugar mamma. And things shouldn’t go on your credit. He needs to save up and buy what he thinks he needs. Up front. Within his means. Not $300 pants and not $3000 couch. You put extra money in to your savings and perhaps do post nuptial that he can’t touch your retirement plan in case of a divorce.

And if he continues demanding to live above his means, as soon as he can get a credit card he’ll have a debt again because he didn’t learn his lesson. He needs to readjust his life style. There is some stuff on the Internet about living after bankruptsy because many people have second bankruptsy. They never change how they live. He must read up on that

Oh @HaveHope I wish I could offer more! What I can say is look in the mirror and say "it's not my fault, it's not my fault, it's not my fault". You were not prepared for this sh**show you are in now.

Agreed. He's gotten a little better, like I said, but not enough. He needs to learn.

Thank you, @sarahsweets! I will try that. I just feel very stupid.

I just got off the phone with my sister. She was a HUGE help. It is sooooo cathartic to talk with a close family member about this.

She had a lot of helpful things to say, and I have much to think about. I told her that I am undecided right now, but that I could see myself being pushed past the tipping point if he yelled at me even just one more time. I told her I may not have the patience to go through therapy with him at that point. I am about 65% out of the relationship (meaning divorce is on the horizon at some point) and about 35% still in. Roughly those percentages. Weird thing... my husband is the one who taught me how to measure things in percentages. He gives me his pain level in percentages, and the improvement of pain level in percentages.

You’ve made some recent posts that really paint the picture.

I hear you saying you love him. That’s very important.

I feel a lot of his bad behavior is tied to his upbringing. Lived at home until 32! Throwing tantrums in a store when he doesn’t get the pricey thing he wants! Raging, yelling at you which makes you cave in to get him off your back.

My children knew to not dare cause a fuss in public if they wanted something and I said no. I’d have dragged them out of the store and they’d have not gotten it. You’ll have to do something to teach this spoiled baby to grow up. You can do it. Start by not giving in. Maybe a therapist can be a guide for you both and make this easier for you.

I echo everyone else who said speak to someone, a financial advisor is a good idea. You should be putting money away for YOUR retirement, and yes, if you stay married a long time, he would be entitled to some portion of it, too. But find out what’s best for you.

I’m glad you have a helpful lawyer sister!

I do love him. But love certainly does not conquer all. That's for sure.

And thanks, Tisha. My sister was of a big help. And I will research divorce lawyers next week and will call a good one for a free consultation to get the info I need.

He did not live at home until the age of 32 though! lol. He lived apart from his parents since the age of 18, BUT they supported him financially until he was 32. They bought him expensive 40K sports cars, they paid for all his flights, his living expenses, and anything else he needed or wanted.

He was spoiled rotten and never learned a thing about being an adult. They did not do him any favors whatsoever and totally stunted his growth as an adult.

It's pathetic really and makes me most angry at them, because now I have to deal with a total spoiled brat who throws tantrums when I say "no". Unreal.

Like I've said above, it could just take one more incident and I am leaving. I may not have the patience for therapy with him, and there's a mountain of issues looming. My own therapist should be of help though in the meantime.

Of course, me being locked up inside during a pandemic does not help any.

I left stores couple of times when my daughter was little and threw tantrums. lol And one time I left the house alone to go to a party because she wasn’t getting ready the way she was supposed to, she was a teen so it was ok to leave her at home. And I was a lenient parent, well I think I was, she doesn’t hahaha

With retirement plan, I’d insist that he puts same or similar amount in a retirement plan too, in this case if something goes wrong you both walk away with similar amount. And if things go well you both have money saved for old age. If you don’t have 401k or similar retirement plan you must start now. Ideally you need at least couple of hundreds of dollars saved by the time you retire. Or whatever you save is better than nothing. Regardless how much people make they can’t have luxury of not saving for old age. Luckily most employers help with that through matching 401k or similar plans.

And if my husband wasn’t putting anything away and only I did, I’d not be married. Id not want to start marriage later in life with intent of supporting another adult in their old age. It’s not the same as getting together at 20 and build it from a ground up together and one person maybe stayed home raising kids, it’s still mutual money. It’s different when you are older

I just increased by retirement contribution but we discussed that my husband would increase his in the fall after he has shoulder replacement surgery done, he wanted to increase now but I don’t think it’s wise as he’d be off work for 3 months per his surgeon and it’s wise to wait with extra deductions. So we are on the same page about that. Stuff like this needs to be discussed in depth and figured out. As a married couple you need to be on the same page and plan for the future together. If he isn’t good discussing this stuff with you, then therapist or financial advisor needs to be present to help out

And it’s coming from me and I am BAD BAD with money.

Yeah, I hear you.

He has talked about putting money away and having his employer take out for retirement. We should probably see a financial advisor together, if we even stay together.

I mean, at this point, given I am on the brink of divorce (at least 65% of me is), it may be a moot point. I certainly didn't get married late in life to have to financially support someone when I have zero retirement set up.

Leaving definitely takes time and planning. We have to be in a certain mental state where we "know" it's for the best. It's hard for sure, whether we have children or not. I really feel for you. As I've said already, don't act on anything right now with this covid19 affecting everyone. I hope things will get better for you, either way.

As for me, I'd say our relationship took a hit when I was pregnant with our second child who's one now. We've had many stretches of good times and when covid19 hit, it took a turn for the worst. So I get what you mean about the good times making it hard to end a relationship with someone we care about.

Yes agreed. I want to be certain either way. My best friend is worried I will remain in limbo for years. I assured her that it won’t come to that. Though how can I predict how I will feel? She is also the friend who told me that I don’t love him enough to work through these issues. She clarified and said it’s not blind love on my part. So I clarified and said that it’s a matter of whether I am happy or not.. it’s not a measurement of my love. If I’m generally unhappy and that persists, I will have to end it. If I’m generally happy and once in a while there’s a bump I can deal with, then it’s likely I’ll stay.

No major decisions now.

And yes, I get where you’re coming from when it comes to good times. It does make it harder to leave. We all have our own personal limits, boundaries and dealbreakers though, so there’s that too.

I’ve written in this thread

https://psychcentralforums.com/sanct...something-lost.

About having lost myself in the last 12 years because I believed in a higher power. I stopped listening to myself, which had never steered me wrong before.

Last night I got angry that I hadn’t asked my parents to let me stay longer so I could 1) find another part time job to support myself after losing a part time job due to a layoff and 2) find a suitable roommate.

I allowed them to railroad me out of the house, when it turned out they didn’t sell or move for a whole year. I was in a very vulnerable position and I was scared. Then my now husband said “come move with me and we’ll live together”. I had no great roommate options. I met several people and none of them were a good option for me. I posted on Craigslist for two months and got one lead that didn’t work out. I was really stuck and really desperate. I ignored the red flags I had written down in my journal. Or dismissed them because I was so desperate. Had I just paid attention to the red flags better, perhaps I would have fought to stay longer. I felt pushed out. I was put in a bad position. And they didn’t even say anything when I moved in with a guy I had known for only 2 months. They just wanted me out.

Was he the one who wanted to get married and proposed? Did he put some pressure on you?

The other events that happened, seem logical to me. You moved in with him because that was your best option. You said you wanted to get married because you had never been. But knowing the financial situation, I wonder if he pushed for it.

You have your eyes wide open now and are making choices. That’s just to be human.

He did tell me early on that he wanted to marry me. And he cried a lot, tears of joy, because he told me he had found the woman he looked for his entire life. I believed him. He did push for marriage in that he didn’t take things slowly and he wooed me like crazy over the next many months.

I really hope it wasn’t due to his bankruptcy because then that means he’s using me for financial security.

This is depressing.

I'm sorry.

Thanks Bill!

When we are married, we are each other's financial security (even if someone doesn't work) because even the little things we do (the groceries we buy, etc) all add up. When we pick who we marry, IMO, it can be both romantic and practical and so are all the life events that lead up to the marriage. I sometimes think the connections we make were what was meant to be.

I don’t see marriage that way. I see it as two people wanting to marry because they love each other and want that level of a commitment. I see it as two people being able to support themselves otherwise and not one person needing to financially support another.

No, it wasn’t fate. It was a twisted set of circumstances. The perfect storm.

So sorry. Won't say anything else unless I read more of the thread.