Learned a lot

I have been spending a lot of time thinking about relationships and what is important. I think I have come to the realization of what is most important (I'll get to that later).

At any rate in my first marriage I became distant from my wife. She is a very manipulative person, uses fear, obligation and guilt to get what she wants. She often uses emotional outbursts to get attention. She beat me down mentally and emotionally. But, she was always there for me when things were tough.

I made the horrendous mistake of entering into a rebound marriage. You see, in my first marriage I felt rejected. After our mental and emotional intimacy broke down physical intimacy was non existent. So fiding an attractive, younger woman with a strong libido was like a gift. Trouble is that I let the pleasure of the physical intimacy cloud my judgement. She took me for everything I had, was a scam from the start. Used me and discarded me when she was through.

I later met someone that was so wonderful, kind, loving, sweet, compassionate. We had a great relationship for over two years. Part of it was very rocky as I was battling depression resulting from the fall out of my second marraige. I did act out and did some pretty horrible things. But, even after two years and it being great when it was great.... she opted not to stick by me.

I guess what I have learned is that the most important thing in a long term relationship is committment. Someone that is going to stand by you no matter waht. I had that with my first wife. I probably should of dragged her into a really good therapist to help her get over being an emotional cripple and end the manipulation. Because after that no woman has come even close to really being committed for the long term. Many people at mid life have their own agenda, or its more "convenient" to bail when it gets tough. Pretty pathetic. Although, I guess I got what I deserved in the end. I "Bailed" on my first wife. I should of hung in there and made sure she received help. I paid the price for not doing that, and now I am getting the same in return over and over again. And the irony is that I am relentless about committments in relationships now. I would do anything for the woman I love. I would stand by her side through no matter what is thrown our way. All I want is the same thing in return, just not sure if that is out there for me. It matters not as I have no intention of even trying to seek out a relationship. It is just not worth the pain in the end.

Christ, now my ex girlfriend has even blocked all my e-mail. I wanted to meet her just to be honest with her about what happened and be able to tell her to her face. She set something up but there was a problem in communication and it didn't happen. Now she has even blocked receiving e-mail from me. That is such bull &^*% after investing over two years of my life with her. I will tell you this is crazy, absolutely nuts. I know I screwed up, but I also know that I would fight for a relationship that was good for both of us like no one else. I am just beginning to think that relationships are just not waht they are cracked up to be.

Vette...

It sounds like you're stretching a lot here... and you sound unhappy. Like you, I'm seeinjg a lot of my past relationship mistakes and it makes me feel scared.

You're right about how many people at midlife have their own agenda and it's more convenient for them to bail when it gets tough. I've been there. I think it's a panicky feeling some people get somewhere around 40 or 50. They feel that half their life is over, and they want to experience things that perhaps they didn't do as teenagers or an overwhelming sense of boredom in their lives. At least, that's what my ex has told me.

Me... I was so looking forward to this time of my life. Emptying nest... no more 24X7 child care and the rat race with building a decent career.... more time to put into the marriage. But... I see where the kids and the career building for both of us detered both of us off the path of makijng sure our marriage was sound.

Take stock of yourself, vett. The mistakes we make in any relationship are never so huge as when we are trying to disengage from them or heal them. I know this sounds cliche, the there had to be worth or value in your relationships even though you don't see it or notice it now.

geekgirl

yes, I am extremely unhappy....the more that I have chatted with people on here the more that I realize that I have value and my actions were a syumptom of my illness..... and that is my ex girlfriend really loved me she would help me through this difficult time. But, she chose not to and I can't force her to want to hang in there. you can't force someone to want to put in the work required for a committment. I am at the point in my life where I don't want to be alone, I want a committment. I don't want to "be there" just because someone doesn't want to sleep alone, or doesn't want to go to family functions alone, or wants a "friendship" that just goes on and on with nothing more.

So yes I am miserable because I realize that I may never have the relationship that I deserve. And kind of scarey to look forward to growing old alone. Most single men in middle age and post middle age are miserable SOBs. I don't want that for myself. I have a lot to give.

This is going to sound cliche, too, Vett, but before a relationship will come our way/work out, we really do have to find a way to get comfortable in our own skin. Easier to say than to do, (I know). Take care, your friend, Peanut

<font color=blue>HI FROM PEANUT </font color=blue>

Point well taken Peanut. And, I accept the responsibility for entering this relationship before I was, as you say, comfortable in my own skin. But, what to do now? After two years? Simply throw it away? Not my style, especially since I know the love is true.

Vett...

I read your posts and wnated to give you some feedback froma woman's perspective. My husband went through a lot of the same things that you have experienced including depression and acting out inappropriately. You need to give your girl friend some time to heal and sort things out for herself. She may later come to realize what she had with you and how much she has lost.

It is certainly not admirable to have bailed out on you when you needed her the most, but then you have not behaved admirably either. We are all human with human weaknesses and frailties.

With that said we should be allowed to make mistakes and also be allowed to fix them. Her cutting you off before you have had achance to address your issues is a bit premature. I know that my decision to stick by my husband was the best decision I ever made. Becasue now he is so thankful and appreciative that I was there for him that he would do anything for me. If a relationship can survive such an incredible test it can become stronger. Her loss is that she will never know if the relationship could of become stronger. She should of given it a chance.

But, it may not be too late. Back off and give her a bit more time. She if she comes to you of her own accord. She may realize that you are worth it. She may actually care deeply about you and be worrying about you. She should of allowed you the chance to talk to her though. That would of been the mature, responsible and adult thing to do. Seems that after a long term relationship that is a reasonable thing to do. Blocking you out is running away from the problem and not facing it. You can't run away forever. By not talking to you there will always be a loose end, no closure.

As much as you seem to be beating yourself up about the mistakes you have made seems that she has made mistakes as well. I am sure she is in a bad place now and would rahter put the walls up, ignore it and hopes it goes away. That is not a very healthy approach to dealing with any problem in a relationship, no matter how large.

If she is really the one for you, if she really loves you then she would make the effort to reach out to you. I know from experience that when someone is depressed that they need someone to reach out to them. She should of made a bigger effort to do that. She may later come to regret it.

Vett... another (((hug))).

Maybe your girlfriend and you both need space from each other. Blocking email might be the same as telling you to be quiet for now.

What most important now is YOU. Take care of yourself... maybe by being quiet now and not contacting her, you might get her attention soon or later to at least resolve things between you. Sounds weird I know... but the longer I ignore my ex, the more I just do what I have to with little or no contact, the more he'll lash out. Negative reaction for sure... but he has his problems too. If your girlfriend is simply angry or hurt she may need the time to deal with the anger or hurt. It can take a long time to work through anger.

I've done the same thing myself. Blocked email from my ex. He has a bad pattern of communicating with me at all the wrong times... sending me email to my work when I'm in the office, calling me when I am at work, or catching me on weekends when I am with friends or a date (he pumps my kids for info sometimes when they see him I think).

Nuture yourself right now... this might sound like a totally female thing... but taking care of yourself right now... finding something to relax you mind with, finding some fun, or doing something for YOU can help a lot. It sounds like you're still worried a lot about her.

geekgirl...

I am worried to death about her. Admittedly all I want to do is run to her hold her in my arms, just talk and snuggle the way we used to.

And I know my e-mails to her are probably pretty pathetic and clearly I will back off. I don't want to come across as desparate. I guess the thing is I REALLY need a friend right now, more than you know. And, she is my best friend... I shared everything with her. I need someone very badly, just to talk to... help me sort things out. This board ahs been great in that regard, but there is nothing like that personal contact. I am just really afriad where my mind takes me lately and I really need somone right now.

And I doubt very much my ex girlfriend will ever find it in her heart to take me back. She told all her best friends for a reason. So that they would all know and so they would be all over her back if she ever took me back. That was the fatal blow.

Hi Vette.

You've been quite helpful, so I think I should be able to pay back a favor.

Stuff like that is going to hurt and maybe make you do things that you shouldn't do in hindsight. The way you see your ex-girlfriend really does remind me of the way I see the girl that I had to say good-bye to, to save my marriage. She told me that when I told her that I can't be with her anymore that she cried in the office. It was in the early morning so no one saw her. It still hurts. Admittedly, I feel jealous right now, but it's still the process of letting go. But I have no choice in the matter.

I think men are more emotional then women give us credit for, or at least remorseful....well, not all men, some of us are just clear bastards.

So anyway, I have so suggestions to offer along with everyone else. If you want a friend to talk to, just approach someone, right off the street, or phone up someone who was in your graduating class. If it is just sex that you're after then don't be afraid to date or go on a series of one night stands, just to get that out of your system. Or if it's a feeling of community, try establishing, re-establishing, visiting or re-visiting a/your church community. They're filled with people who are genuinely interested in your well being as well as your spiritual being.

Wow...that's long winded. :-) Sorry about that.

John.....

Thanks for your reply to my post. First, it is certainly not sex that I am interested in right now. I really have no desire or interest in one night stands. I need to take a far healthier approach to sexuality.

I did run into an old friend (actually someone I used to date) this past weekend quite by accident. We would up spending time together and I shared everything that is going on with me. She was so incredibly nonjudgemental and supportive. Really took me by surprise. And, admittedly I was a bit angry. I figured is this woman can be this non judgemental and supportive, why couldn't my ex girl friend? But, I know I have to let that go.

I also realize, with the help of this friend.... taht my ex girl friend and I may have been totally incompatible sexually. My ex girl friend seems to think that all men are in it just for the sex. Well, I love physical intimacy, but there needs to be more than that for me. The frustrating part is that my ex girl friend was the best friend I ever had. But, after discussing mey relationship this past weekend it does seem that we were on a different wave length in terms of our sexual wants and desires. She would think nothing of going to bed every night and turning the TV on. It was a comforting thing for her. I wished that some times she would look forward to being intimate with me and have that be her comfort. I used to hate lying there night after night watching the damn TV. I want to be with someone that wants to stay in bed till noon, or make love all night... not very day... but once in a while.

Admittedly I have a very strong libido. And the fact that I was in a relationship where I wasn't having my needs fulfilled drove me to seek that elsewhere. That combined with my depression and stress culminating from my past mistakes.I didn't do it al that often.. but enough to create a problem (once is enough to be a problem).

My old friend that I reconnected with tells me that I shouldn't have to "settle". That is settle for anything less than what would make me completely and totally happy. The weird thing is that physical intimacy should be the easy part. I mean I was more than willing to compromise on this issue. Actually talked a lot about it with her. Just never seemd to get me anywhere though.

I mean in talking with another woman about the situation it was soooo frustrating as she mentioned that the physical intimacy thing should be the easy part. That there should be no big deal about an increased frequency of physical intimacy. Why wouldn't you want to? It relieves stress, makes you feel good and brings two people closer.

So in the final analysis I am more confused than ever as to why my ex girl friend behaved the way she did. I guess I have to open myself up to the possibility that she liked the "comfort" of our relationship but was never really in love with me. That, is amore than a bit tough to take. But, I am trying to work through it. Its just hard caring so much about her yet knowing that she really doesn't care about me.

This should probably be in a private message, but I am feeling crabby and putting it out to the world.

Vett, have you ever heard the concept "carrying a torch"?

It is entirely up to you to put the damn thing down and get on with your life.

You must not be reading what you write because you have made it more than clear on many occasions that your ex is just that, EX. Ex as in "history", as in "it's over baby", as in "get over it".

If you want to self-flagellate, go for it big guy, spank yourself silly. But don't expect it's going to help you improve your life or help you find any new love opportunities. All you're going to get is a rosey red butt and it hurts to sit down. You show it to anyone and they are going to laugh at you.

There is a sign on a co-workers desk:

Insanity
Doing the very same thing
Over and over again,
And expecting to see
A different result.

Wherever you go, there you are

kv.....

Carrying a torch as you say could be looked at two ways. One view, is yours, that it is unhealthy which indeed has merit. The other view is that someone is intensely loyal to the person and just doens't want to throw in the towel and give up a good thing. Relationships are tough and it should be expected that you will encounter challenges and pain. But, you just don't give up on them.

Either way you cut it I will move on with my life. But, I will not stop loving someone that I care deeply about. Just isn't going to happen.

I have rediscovered an old friend that is helping me put this in perspective for me. So I am "moving on" with my life. But, I am not a quitter and I refuse to believe that this relationship would not have been great for both of us if she would only give it a chance.

Vett...
Your words really struck me about "being intensely loyal" to someone who has rejected you. When my ex-husband said he wanted a divorce and even after he moved out, I had a really hard time NOT being loyal to him, even though I knew he wasn't appreciating it. I felt married - had a hard time accepting that I was single. I felt very guilty dating other people for the first few months, which I realized was completely ridiculous, but my smart head and my dumb heart don't always connect well.

But your last line tells me that you really aren't going to feel better anytime soon... "I refuse to believe that this relationship would not have been great"... hey, if you refuse to believe it then nothing any of us can say or do is going to be of any help to you.

I know you fluctuate between beating yourself up and resenting your ex for giving up on you. But please... I don't think you're being fair to her. It is not easy being in a relationship with someone who is depressed, no matter how much you love that person. Re-read my posts about how scared I am for my own future. You always said that she said she didn't break up with you because of your depression, but rather she couldn't deal with the emotional rollercoaster. Breaking up with you was the right choice for her, because maybe she isn't going to find a relationship with someone who loves her as much as you did, but maybe she just wants stability, not deep passionate love. Maybe, if she had given you a chance, the relationship would have been great for you... but maybe not for her.

Vett, I think you're great and I don't want you to stop posting or to get too upset about my response. I know how much pain you're in -- I felt that pain during my divorce almost 5 years ago. I also thought I would never stop loving my ex-husband. By now, I no longer love him, but the pain is still there. So it will get better, I promise!

Your friend,
LMo

We are ALL going to be a-ok!

LMo...

Your post struck a nerve with me, and really helped me to put this into perspective. And, you are right the relationship with my ex may have been great for me, but not for her.

I can certainly apprecaite the fact that being in a relationship with someone that is depressed is very stressful. The frustrating thing is that for many people depression can be temporary with the right help. So, just as many people are "cured" so to can the person that is depressed. I just think she gave up on me too soon that's all.

I will get over it and I am trying to move on. I have no intention of getting into any relationship again for a long, long time. I need to take this tie to get well and rediscover who I am and what it is that I want in this life. In the meantime it is just so painful to not have her in my life. I just can help that.

A nerve?????????? LTLREDVETT, I'm sorry!!!! Didn't mean to strike a nerve! Hopefully you meant "a chord"???

But Vettie, from what you've told me, I don't think your depression was entirely short-term. I don't want to throw words back in your face so I apologize if it comes out this way, but it sounded to me as though some of the issues you have been struggling with have been there for a long, long time, preceding the 2 years you guys were together. And is anyone ever completely cured? I hope so, but I'm starting to have my doubts...

I don't think she gave up on you... I think you should force yourself to change your terminology, because I'm sure you are twisting your own knife every time you say that. She didn't give up on you. She just gave herself the emotional break that she needed. Very different.



LMo

We are ALL going to be a-ok!

LMo

point well taken..... If not being with me makes her happy and healthy then I have to accept that because I do want what is best for her. I guess I love her enough to let her go.

Vett,

I think you are approaching the bottom line here. Can you make it? Do you want to make it? Are you willing to make it?

Letting what has passed be the past is realistic and healthy. It is what she wants, and what you have got to let yourself see is that it may not be what you WANT, but it is what you NEED.

There is a saying about not beating dead horses... I am going to take it to heart and drop this topic with you. I just can't help but get the feeling you really like this dead horse and will try to ride it until it rots.

I just cannot stay interested with what seems to be your very stubborn (not loyalty) refusal to deal with reality. What further frustrates me is that I think you really do know all this and choose the path you are on.

Sorry for being crabby and blunt. My patient understanding mode is offline today.

Wherever you go, there you are

kv......

Thanks for your support. There is no need to be so cynical and obnoxious. I came to this board so I could vent my feelings, and for the most part people seemed very supportive and nonjudgemental. Sorry I didn't react the way you wanted me to and in your time frame. I am having a tough enough time dealing with this, all I wanted was for someone to "listen" (by reading my words). I knew that I would get over it in time. It is a process. My life has changed dramatically as a result of this. I'll do you a favor and not bring it up again.

NO! Although my dear KV admits to feeling crabby today, he is NOT saying you shouldn't post here! Vett - STOP taking it that way! Nobody has ever said you shouldn't post here! He just said he is probably going to stay out of this particular issue. That's all, and that's his choice. Doesn't mean that YOU should change!

Vent all you like... and you still have my support, so PM me if you don't feel comfortable posting right now. I'm listening, ok?

We are ALL going to be a-ok!

Vett,
Hope you'll stay and post if that helps you.
I am glad you can see things that Lmo is saying about looking at the situation with your ex a little differently. I think she is giving you some wonderful insight and information.

One thing in a post stood out to me. "If not being with me makes her happy and healthy then I have to accept that because I do want what is best for her".

She very well may be suffering a great deal. It isn't often someone walks away from a relationship not hurting. The first emotion expressed when we are hurt is anger. There are alot of other feelings that can be masked or hidden under that. Many people find it easier to stay with the anger and not get down to the real feelings of dissapointment, hurt, fear etc.

She has her issues and you have yours. Maybe it was bad timing, maybe it was never meant to be. Maybe she wasn't strong enough to deal with your issues the way you think she should have. If your relationship was hard on her then she probably realized that it was better for her to go. IIt doesn't mean she wanted to leave you or that she didn't care. Not everyone can be what we want and maybe she doesn't have it in her to fight for something. There are so many reasons that could have caused her to leave.

I understand what you have been saying. On one hand I agree with some things that Kv is saying but at the same time I know that you cared deeply for this woman and whether you caused the damage or it was a lack of commitment on her part or whatever, it will take time to heal and move on. It's hard not to wonder "what if" and "what if I had". You may never get the answers you want. You can only change you, you can only find what you need to do to make you happy.
It will take time. Loss hurts.

I recommend listening to Lmo, she's a smart girl!!!
Heidu


The highest reward for a person's toil is not what they get for it, but what they become by it.
John Ruskin

Heidu, I do listen to LMo... and thank you so much for your response. I know I am still grieving and will be for quite some time. Sorry, but I can't just "flip a switch" and stop feeling for this woman... just isn't going to happen. All I wanted was a safe place to be able to express my feelings.

You have it... you can always PM me, Vett. I hope you feel safe with me. Express away! But if you don't want advice, then maybe start your post off that way... say "I'm not asking for or looking for advice... I'm just venting". Actually, I think Creative Corner was supposed to be for that purpose, but as you have already noticed, busybodies like me are policing that room as well Sorry - thanks for keeping us in line!

I know you're grieving - just let us know how we can help you through this tough time, ok?

Your friend,
LMo

(thanks Heidu - that was really nice!)

We are ALL going to be a-ok!

I didn't ask you to flip a switch, I said it will take time. I understand that Vett. You have a safe place, it's here with us.
If someone doesn't agree with you then that is for them to decide and to step back or step out. It doesn't mean that you need to stop expressing yourself in whatever way you feel the need to. Of course sometimes we will try to make you see things differently but that can be very positive.
I always read your posts and I know you are struggling and that is normal. Your feelings are normal. You are trying to work thru them despite your depression and grief. That takes alot and it takes time. Give yourself the time. Dont shut yourself off or shut your feelings away. That will only set you running in a big circle.

I am having alot of difficulties of my own but it helps me alot to read others posts and try with whatever I have may it be understanding, comfort, a hug or the straight truth (what I believe it to be anyway). It helps me alot because it takes my mind off my own problems for awhile, gives me insite into something I may be feeling sometimes and it makes me feel like I can do something positive and caring despite my damaged self.
Heidu


The highest reward for a person's toil is not what they get for it, but what they become by it.
John Ruskin

LMo... please don't tkae any offense, my comments were not directed at you. I have loved your posts and found them to be so very helpful. But, I would just rather not continue to post on here if what I read is just going to get me pissed off and feel worse.

okay

We are ALL going to be a-ok!