codependency/confusion need advice

some say codependency and love cannot coexist, but i know from my parents it can.. but must overcome some things. they both have codependency and love, married 30 years approximately.

This girl that myself and her desire to marry, we have the love and codependency. I have some depression, but she more serious, i need to learn to communicate better and be stronger for her.

Advice welcome from many. But regarding corresponding, I prefer Christian.. Thanks for understanding.

IMO - Co-dependency is not as bad as many T would have you believe..... I think in today's society to many have gotten away from what a spouse was meant to be to the other spouse (friend, confidant, lover, supporter, adviser and life long partner).... hence why we have so many marriages ending in divorce.... spouses are turning to others in time of need, for the solution, instead of talking to their very own partner - - - and let us not forget about how the two was created to become one.

I have been married for 20 years (together for 23 yrs) and while we have indeed had our ups and down / hurts and pains.... we made it for in the long run we learned early on how we should turn to each other first, and then friends & family second.... having a life together first and for most and then friends / family to share it all with.

Co-dependency is only bad when one allows the other to consumes every hour and every minute of ones life.... not when you need the other as God made it to be, and every thing He made was Good!

LoVe,
Rhapsody - <><

My advice is for both of you to work on your issues in therapy before you get married. You may love each other, and it can be real, but a codependent relationship isn't healthy. There are several problems that can happen. One or both of you may feel locked into unhealthy patterns that make it hard to grow. One of you may progress past the other one, who may or may not be interested in change (at that time, or ever), and you would be mismatched and one could drag the other down. Or this could happen in cycles - one starts to get better and the other drags them down, then you switch roles and repeat the pattern again. There are many possibilities for abuse even though neither of you would think of being abusive now. Your children will learn unhealthy relationship patterns rather than healthy ones and repeat the cycle with their own families.

I would strongly urge you both to learn about codependency and work on your own healing first, and then get married if that is still the right thing.

One more thing - your religion and values are very important to you, and there is absolutely nothing wrong with that, but please make your decisions with consideration for your own needs and abilities. I have made major life decisions out of feeling pressured by other people and by what I thought was expected of me (religiously/culturally). Those did not turn out to be the best decisions for me. You can read about my experiences there if you look up "Rapunzel's Story" in the personal stories section. Or feel free to PM me if you like.

Rap

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Rapunzel said:
My advice is for both of you to work on your issues in therapy before you get married. You may love each other, and it can be real, but a codependent relationship isn't healthy. There are several problems that can happen. One or both of you may feel locked into unhealthy patterns that make it hard to grow. One of you may progress past the other one, who may or may not be interested in change (at that time, or ever), and you would be mismatched and one could drag the other down. Or this could happen in cycles - one starts to get better and the other drags them down, then you switch roles and repeat the pattern again. There are many possibilities for abuse even though neither of you would think of being abusive now. Your children will learn unhealthy relationship patterns rather than healthy ones and repeat the cycle with their own families.

I would strongly urge you both to learn about codependency and work on your own healing first, and then get married if that is still the right thing.

One more thing - your religion and values are very important to you, and there is absolutely nothing wrong with that, but please make your decisions with consideration for your own needs and abilities. I have made major life decisions out of feeling pressured by other people and by what I thought was expected of me (religiously/culturally). Those did not turn out to be the best decisions for me. You can read about my experiences there if you look up "Rapunzel's Story" in the personal stories section. Or feel free to PM me if you like.

Rap

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I already said codependency can be an issue.. but my parents married 30 years and still love each other. that other lady that replied also had codependency got over it.

And maybe you think religion is not good, but my girlfriend and I know God is good for what He has done in our lives. Please do not try to discourage people from pursuing their relationship with God. You know sometimes God wants something, and sometimes parents want something, and sometimes we wants something, and sometimes we think all are the same. Think does not always mean is.

However.. I know that God brought my girlfriend and I together some reason. We are friends.. We are wating to see what God brought us together for. We are seeking help we need in the meantime. Struggling with codependency is not what is bad.. What is bad is let codependency thoughts make all the decisions. A good relationship should be based on grace, love, and trust. We know that.

And don't tell me people that struggle with codependency can never have relationship and cannot instill good values. My parents raised myself and my siblings just fine.

Renew,

I hope that my advice didn't give you the wrong idea. Religion is important to me too, and I agree with you that God is good and your relationship with God is very important in directing your life, your healing, and all that is really important. Sometimes, however, people confuse culture with religion. I think that was what happened to me. I listened to what other people (who share the same religion as I do) said about not waiting to get married and have children, when I wasn't ready yet. Sometimes the message from people you trust and respect is easier to grab onto than it is to listen to the spirit, consider what is in your best interest, and make your own decision with God as your guide.

I had been in therapy twice by the time I got married. The first therapist told me that I was only homesick (yeah, right) and that getting married would cure me. The second told me marriage would be a big mistake for me at that time because I would raise a dysfunctional family just like the one that I came from. After 16 years, I am still married, but I wish with all my heart that I had waited, because something is missing and I wonder if I will ever develop the individual strength that I never had. I felt so trapped that it reached the point where suicide looked like the only way out for a while.

My parents have been married for 38 years, but staying married is not really the issue. My mother fosters dependency in everyone she gets her hands on. My father retreats to his own world somewhere in his head, or books, etc. and doesn't know what is going on around him. Of my siblings and I (six of us), three broke free - or think we did (for me, the oldest, it took a major battle and a clean break and almost no contact with my family for many years and other ongoing effects), and three are adult children who may never be allowed to have their own lives - unable to support themselves or develop relationships outside of the family.

Forgive me for talking about myself so much - but I can only speak from my own experience as I am not an authority on anyone else's.

Your choices are your own, and I hope that it turns out well for you whichever way you choose. I am glad that you and your girlfriend have a friendship that is mutually beneficial. Marriage may be right for you. All I am saying is that you will have a healthier marriage if you both conquer your dependency issues first, because codependency is not a healthy relationship. There is a difference between codepencency vs. mutual support, love, and a healthy need for each other.

I have done a lot of reading on codependency, even labeling myself as such in the past, but now I believe this is a catch label for all sorts of relationship problems. Is it codependent to be thinking of the other's needs, to want to share, to feel a bit insecure from time to time? NO! Also, it's not codependent when an unbalanced relationship leads ot insecurity on the part of the one who is more committed. Often the loving partner is labeled "codependent" because of the other's indifference! Too many things are labeled codependent which are just normal relationship dynamics.
That's just my 2 cents!
Patty

That is true, Patty. Codependency by definition is an unhealthy dependency, where one person keeps someone else dependent in order to satisfy some needs of their own (like my mother). The label is often overused.

Renew, maybe we should back up. Would you like to discuss the symptoms in your relationship that have been defined as codependency? If they actually are not problems for you, then maybe you have a healthy, non-codependent relationship afterall.

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Rapunzel said:
That is true, Patty. Codependency by definition is an unhealthy dependency, where one person keeps someone else dependent in order to satisfy some needs of their own (like my mother). The label is often overused.

Renew, maybe we should back up. Would you like to discuss the symptoms in your relationship that have been defined as codependency? If they actually are not problems for you, then maybe you have a healthy, non-codependent relationship afterall.

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Yeah should back up. I feel like people always want to destroy me every time I admit my faults.. claiming i am full of pride and am a fake. that is not the case.

What has been defined as codependency is wanting to make everything perfect for her and failing. Wishing t o fix her situation to protect her in many ways that probably are God's job.. Worrying that if I cannot be there sometimes that she is not ok... Worrying that if I lose her, I also am not ok..

Thanks for sharing that. It takes courage to admit your faults.

Hmm, you sound quite a bit like my husband, whose heart is in the right place but who is also overprotective and in some ways in trying to provide everything, he undermines my ability to learn to take care of myself. He also finds himself drained because he gives up everything he wants in order to give me what he thinks I need, or what he thinks will keep him from losing me. He is a good person, and you are a good person too, but as you recognize, if you try to make everything perfect for her, you will fail because perfection is an unreachable ideal.

You can support her in the work that she needs to do to fix her own situation (with God's help). If she can learn to be okay and stand on her own, then you will not need to worry when you can't be there (and sometimes you can't, and that is okay). If you can be okay by yourself then you can be stronger for her too.

How do you think that you could work on those things?

a lot of prayer, working on my own issues between myself and God, learning things.. I think I should help her where I can.. But not stress out if it is something she needs other sources.. If i am stressed she will be.. a lot of this depends on how I work on my own situation..

Sounds good. You can always be an example in how you work out your issues. Are either of you in therapy? That can help a lot too. And there are plenty of books about recovery from codependency.

One important key is to let her work things out for herself, because if you do it for her she won't develop her own strength. Just like a chick has to work its own way out of the egg, and a butterfly has to fight to get out of the cocoon. If you watch those processes, it is tempting to help them out, but if you do, the chick or butterfly will never have the strength it needs, and will either die or be severely crippled for life.

I think it all has to do with balance. Too much of anything is usually a bummer. Too much love included. Labels are tricky because we hear them according to where we are in our healing, somebody else may interpret them completely differently while using the same exact words.

Co dependancey is one of those tricky words that describes an emotional state of being. My understanding of what it means to me has morphed as I see more life as the years go by.

I think the bottom line has to do with giving each other enough room to do our individual growning, while suppoting each other with all our hearts. Some things are just soooooo hard to hands off and watch....... I think it's that jumping in to help, when a person should work it out on their own, that gets one into the codependant realm......

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Rapunzel said:
Sounds good. You can always be an example in how you work out your issues. Are either of you in therapy? That can help a lot too. And there are plenty of books about recovery from codependency.

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Well, i will have some counselling soon, some classes at church, and we both have books and people to talk with about our issues..

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One important key is to let her work things out for herself, because if you do it for her she won't develop her own strength. Just like a chick has to work its own way out of the egg, and a butterfly has to fight to get out of the cocoon. If you watch those processes, it is tempting to help them out, but if you do, the chick or butterfly will never have the strength it needs, and will either die or be severely crippled for life.

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Ironically I have used a cocoon as an analogy about her and I myself.. Yes I will encourage her and do some things for her, but I will let her use her own resources to help herself so she can be stronger too. She also told me not to worry to much because she has resources herself.

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hillbunnyb said:
I think it all has to do with balance. Too much of anything is usually a bummer. Too much love included. Labels are tricky because we hear them according to where we are in our healing, somebody else may interpret them completely differently while using the same exact words.

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True.. she has had a lot say they love her so it is difficult.. So I am trying to get my own issues and responsibilities working out, so i can still standby her, but she still has space to work things out she feels she needs to herself, and I can with my own.

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Co dependancey is one of those tricky words that describes an emotional state of being. My understanding of what it means to me has morphed as I see more life as the years go by.

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I suppose so..

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I think the bottom line has to do with giving each other enough room to do our individual growning, while suppoting each other with all our hearts. Some things are just soooooo hard to hands off and watch....... I think it's that jumping in to help, when a person should work it out on their own, that gets one into the codependant realm......

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you got it!

Yeah seeker 1950!!! I agree with you 100%. I have been told I am codependant to the point I felt guilty any time I ask for help. I hate the word codependant. Why would God put us on earth together if we weren't allowed to depend on others. He also gave Adam Eve not Jane, Lori, etc. Did he ever want him to think she was just another person living on the same planet as he was. He gave her to him as his mate. There was no one else but them and life was perfect. The sad thing happened when Eve got curious and doubted Gods word and they ate the apple. This is where codependancy has created doubt in our minds and we constantly change with cultures opinion of what is right and wrong. Trying to be so analytical about what is codependancy and what isn't is driving me crazy. I think being open in a relationship about what your boundaries are so that you both know how much freedom you expect from one another. If it isn't enough or too free you don't match each other, don't marry. Our culture has changed the way the bible is interpreted, it is my impression of something I won't get into. Along time ago women were to cover their face in the temple and by no means speak their mind. Today we have women who are ministers, etc. Times change and so does the interpretation of the bible. We have to allow our spirit to tell us what interpretation we wish to follow. It eases our mind from the pain of questioning our beliefs. I felt I was too codependant on my husband so we began to give each other more space. He found a new space with another woman. Now we both found this to be too much space. I am not with him but chances are if we hadn't given each other so much freedom we may have stayed together. Telling someone you need them isn't wrong, if they think you are so independant you don't need them they may go looking for someone who they can depend on.

quit reading into my situation. codependency is not fake. i am not talking of simply needing and loving each other so quit bashing me or whatever you are doing. just because two people need counseling doesn't mean they aren't right for each other. my parents have been married 30 years and they have codependency issues they often must overcome. getting in somebody's thread with the simple intent of telling them they are wrong for seeking help is downright wrong and if you have no real intention to come help but rather argue with me to make yourself feel better back off do your own thread. you have no right to cause problems with me.

It is not wrong for two people who love each other to stay together, in fact God prefers people not seek outside sources but try to fix things unless of adultery. .So don't come and try and destroy my relationship just because yours did not work.

Sorry I wasn't trying to bash your relationship. I was just bashing codependancy. I don't like that the word has become all that it has. My relationship didn't work out because I feed into all the beliefs that codependancy exists. I just wish I had told my husband that I felt insecure when he was so independant. I wish I had asked him to spend more time with me. Truth is I see all relationships as interdependant. I work where everyone has strange personalities. Maybe not strange in their own eyes but we all have qwirks. What is funny is we know each others like the back of our hand. Some we hate but when we really have to pull together on something it is amazing. Down right amazing! Because we know each others strengths and weaknesses we are like superpeople acting in unison together. I accept the fact one lady has bad legs so I do all the leg work, she accepts I can be bored at times so she finds me things to do, we know who can handle certain customers personalities, it all works together. But we depend on knowing each other and being able to depend on this being okay to be who we are. I wish I had been okay with this in my marraige. However, we were too worried about having to maintain our independance. Sorrry if this upset you.

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Determined said:
Sorry I wasn't trying to bash your relationship. I was just bashing codependancy. I don't like that the word has become all that it has. My relationship didn't work out because I feed into all the beliefs that codependancy exists. I just wish I had told my husband that I felt insecure when he was so independant. I wish I had asked him to spend more time with me. Truth is I see all relationships as interdependant. I work where everyone has strange personalities. Maybe not strange in their own eyes but we all have qwirks. What is funny is we know each others like the back of our hand. Some we hate but when we really have to pull together on something it is amazing. Down right amazing! Because we know each others strengths and weaknesses we are like superpeople acting in unison together. I accept the fact one lady has bad legs so I do all the leg work, she accepts I can be bored at times so she finds me things to do, we know who can handle certain customers personalities, it all works together. But we depend on knowing each other and being able to depend on this being okay to be who we are. I wish I had been okay with this in my marraige. However, we were too worried about having to maintain our independance. Sorrry if this upset you.

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that is too bad about what happened to you and your husband.. though i believe both interdependance and codependancy exist. it is essential to be able to depend upon each other to degree, such as trust and responsibility.. but when the people are thinking that they are the only way for the other person to be ok, it can be a problem.. .. and some other things.. That is why my girlfriend and myself want to work on this early on, to be careful so we can have a healthy Godly relationship and learn some things ourselves before we marry.

I don't know if I am understanding what you are talking about. I just love the way things are now with knowing who the people I associate with are and just accept each others personalities. It goes a long way towards cultivating confidence in making things work out. We have a teenager who has ADD that works where we do and we don't expect more from him than he can handle. Our boss is great with him. She has arranged things so he is helpful but we don't depend on him fully because we know his shortcomings. Surprisingly enough it is beneficial to him as well as ourselves even if it isn't a perfect situation. He may be dependant all his life but at least he is trying.

i am talking about when caring becomes worrying etc. when trying turns into trying too hard. when two people afraid of losing each other so much that they sometimes forget God can help each of them.. Certainly the dependency can be dealt with, but we need some good mature christian counsel that can help us see the way God wants us to pursue this instead of trying to drive us apart and judging us.

Renew, Ephesians 5:33 says" Nevertheless,let each one fo you in particular so love his own wife as himself, and let the wife see that she respects her husband"

I know nothing about codependency..but I do know that God listens and He wants you to enjoy your life.. both of you..and He knows His plan for you.

I say you are on the right track; you are putting Him first How could you go too far wrong? There is no hurry... take your time, keep praying.. i will pray also...

Blessings..ps.. having faults does not mean failure.. those putting you down are clueless...

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FaithisAlive said:
Renew, Ephesians 5:33 says" Nevertheless,let each one fo you in particular so love his own wife as himself, and let the wife see that she respects her husband"

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i do love her..but she is not my wife yet. She is my girlfriend whom i would like to marry. I do want to prepare God's way, instead of my own way. If her and I do not let God guide us, we will fail. We need guidance and prayers to find which way God wants us to do this.

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I know nothing about codependency..but I do know that God listens and He wants you to enjoy your life.. both of you..and He knows His plan for you.

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Yes.. I want to find God's plan.. I strongly feel He approves as long as we obey Him and do it His way.. But we need to find that so we can heal and prepare for the future God's way.

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I say you are on the right track; you are putting Him first How could you go too far wrong? There is no hurry... take your time, keep praying.. i will pray also...

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thanks. i appreciate it. I am sure she would if she were to read this.

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Blessings..ps.. having faults does not mean failure.. those putting you down are clueless...

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I know, but we need God's strength and peace as well as the wisdom and counsel.

Romans8:31 "..... if God is for us, who can be against us?"

Thats what you hold onto when it gets rough going.Keep that faith you have and you wil be fine.

I agree with listening to the spirit. I understand that when two people depend on each other it can hurt sometimes. The first thing the lady with the bad legs said the day the ADD boy messed up was fire him. I looked at her and luckily the boss explained his illness and she shut up. We all understand her physical limitations and deal with it, she is now learning physical as well as emotional are equal. I know it hurts, but there are ways to allow each other to depend on each other and be there to help them. I do know codependancy is often the case in alcohalics and no way should someone encourage bad behavior but it would be okay to be there for them if you can. My aunts husband was an alcoholic, she was there through it all. He has been dry for years, things that happened affected their family but they made it as a couple and can how help make their family strong again. I don't know just things to think about.

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Determined said:
I agree with listening to the spirit. I understand that when two people depend on each other it can hurt sometimes. The first thing the lady with the bad legs said the day the ADD boy messed up was fire him. I looked at her and luckily the boss explained his illness and she shut up. We all understand her physical limitations and deal with it, she is now learning physical as well as emotional are equal. I know it hurts, but there are ways to allow each other to depend on each other and be there to help them. I do know codependancy is often the case in alcohalics and no way should someone encourage bad behavior but it would be okay to be there for them if you can. My aunts husband was an alcoholic, she was there through it all. He has been dry for years, things that happened affected their family but they made it as a couple and can how help make their family strong again. I don't know just things to think about.

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For us, we do not want to encourage bad behaviour. Rather we want to encourage a Godly way, and we want to try and not worry.

like that faith person said.. we need to keep the faith.. but guess what, we do also need counselling. possibly premaritaly counselling of sorts.

this thing coming too fast for me, I m on a recovery of many issues from myself past and other things.I m so confused...i tried to push him(renew)away, but failed...... and i also love him, but i really do not know how to work on this, i m with a confused minds for so long time.
we need to know a lot things to figure out if we both match or not, if we just seeking some comfort from each other, or if we really mean to be together as a couple?
how to know that?

and if we mean to be together, we also need to know how to manage a future marriage life, i m so scared....