[Logden]

Rage is winning. There seems to be no end to this.
Our only son killed himself many years ago and it took me years to be able to talk about it, get over my anger at him for this impulsive act. He had every reason to live, if for no other reason than for his 8 yr. old son.

This son is now a grown married man and just had a son of his own so I am now a great grandmother. What should be a joyous event in our lives has unearthed the old anger.

Our son should be alive, enjoying this new baby instead of leaving such a legacy behind. My husband and I are rehashing old hurts....old acqusations of "we should have" or "you could have"......we find ourselves defending our parenting when no one is pointing any fingers at us.

Someone suggested that I should journal...that I could vent there and harm no one but I find the things I've written so hateful and scarey and then I think, stop playing victim and get over it....stop whinning!!

Easier said than done. Will this ever end??? Will this never end!!

my heart goes out to you.......will it ever end?.........i doubt it but it will change and may get a little easier.........i have not had this kind of loss so perhaps i am not one to answer you but i'm a parent and i know that we do all we can for our kids and we all make mistakes but his suicide is not your fault or your husbands.......perhaps we will never know the why of it but we must rejoice in what we had......try to find the joy in what he left you.his son and now the baby......God bless

[Logden]

Thank you for your kind words Butterflylady.

Having gone though this the first time around, asking all the whys, going thru all the "stages" , surviving the "guilt" that is such a killer,
I am just overwhelmed by the intensity of the feelings.

He was a wonderful son...a joy to both his dad and me.
Trying to rejoice now is such a struggle...even putting on that "face" for the world is getting harder.

Thank you again for listening. Suicide is such a conversation stopper.

Logdon, I can't imagine what it must have been/be like for you and all your family! Have you ever spoken to anyone outside of the family about this? Sometimes we need to create some personal space to talk about these things.

I agree suicide is a hard topic to be able to talk freely about!

[Logden]

I am here Mouse for new ears. I think I've exhausted my friends, other forums....what can they possibly say to me that they haven't already said. There wasn't a support group in our town those many yrs ago, there is now but the moderator is "judgemental" imho. when I said to her that I had finally come to the conclusion that our son's suicide was an impulsive act.....her response was "I never heard of anyone putting a gun in their mouth and blowing off their head impulsively." Needless to say, I never returned.

At least here I can talk about "it" and him....you all haven't heard it before.

Thank you for giving me this space.

please know that you can come here anytime and as often as you need to and talk about your son and your feelings.......we will always listen.......

Logden, Yes sometimes suicide is a impulsive act. I think I meant though have you sought counselling? Talk to someone that specialists in grief of any kind?

[Logden]

Thank you for that...it comforts me to know that I can talk about again...some more...still. ~sigh

[Logden]

Mouse I haven't gone for grief counseling...I may have to do that because I am scaring myself with the intensity of my feelings....am back to screaming in the car as I did when our son first died.

The problem with going is the admission of my inability to cope with what life hands me. My husband is "somebody" and ....how can I say this without sounding pompus?
We are supposed to have all the answers, do the counseling for others and above all else...set an example of surviving.

I suppose I could go out of state.

Are you saying you can't fix me? *wink

"somebodys" hurt, too. going to therapy could just move one person, who knows you, in the right direction for help for themselves. you can get online therapy here, i'm pretty sure.

we're all in this together, you know......

suicide is often an impulsive act. that woman had issues that she hasn't resolved or she would not have spoken to you that way. i know that.......she should not be moderating a group of any kind.

you will sorta have to pull yourself out of this morass and take control of your getting some help and then moving forward. it sounds as if your husband could use it too. xoxox pat

[Logden]

Your response made me cry and then it made me laugh!
It felt good....thank you. I do need to take charge of my feelings....I'm too old to have this much emotion!!

I need to get a grip....I promise to try harder.

[Grace03]

Hi Logden!

You sound as though you are still suffering a lot of pain...I'm so sorry I can't just make it disappear for you & your husband.

Grief counselling would be, I believe the most effective counselling for you & your husband at this time. Individually though..and perhaps down the road as couples therapy.

You know, I lost my 30 year old big brother...suddenly. I was 6 mths. pregnant with my first child @ the time. Because I didn't have time to grief-went straight to being a Mom....I always felt I never said enough..did enough. I authorized the Life Support..and donated all his body parts (not to science). I grappled with the Life Support issues for years. Couldn't bring myself to go through the process emotionally again. It was so painful.

In October I had a severe depression (diagnosed as BP@ at the time)and was in Psychotherapy for 8 mths. The issue of my brothers death surfaced..and with the help/support of both my Therapist & PDoc.. I finally said goodbye to him & laid any guilt/questions to rest. I felt a huge burden had been lifted.

And now I have his wonderful picture right here on my bulletin board..and I look at him..and I feel love & peace. I will always miss him..but he is truly with me in spirit.

Perhaps my story wil help you see there is a way to move forward...heal & let go through Psychotherapy.

My heart goes out to you....please consider it!

Sincerely,
Grace03

[Logden]

Grace, I'm so sorry for the sudden loss of your 30 year old brother....sudden loss gives us no time to prepare..to say goodbye. I think it's wonderful that you agreed to life support and donated so others could live.

Another reason I was so very angry at our son...he was a big healthy 31 yr old who could have done the same...his body wasn't found until the next day.

I just returned from church...we have such a wonderful compassionate Pastor who tries hard to show me "how."...I felt this mornings' sermon was directed at me...once again she talked about forgiveness.

I can't tell you all how much this support and advice is appreciated. Thank you.

[sabby]

((((((((((((((((((((((((Logden)))))))))))))))))))))))))))

I'm so very sorry for your loss and the pain it has caused you and your husband and family all these years. My heart truly goes out to you and the struggle you are going through. It doesn't matter how long ago it happened, it matters because you loved your son and what he did to himself and his family is so very hard to comprehend and accept.

No matter how our loved ones die, I think we all go through a time when we feel like we should have done more, of course hindsight is 20/20 isn't it? I'm sure that you and your husband did the best you could do with what you had to work with at the time. Isn't that all any loving parent can do? There is no more expectation than that of any parent. (at least in my mind).

Forgiveness can be a hard thing to find. To forgive yourselves, you couldn't do more than you did, to forgive your son, for being in a state where he could not see more possibilities, to forgive God for allowing this to happen. That's a lot of forgiveness to work on.

So many questions and no real answers....many ideas, many possibilities, but nothing concrete. The only concrete thing I can see in something like this is illness and suffering. Would you be angry with someone who died of cancer? Would you be angry with someone if they died from a car accident? If it wasn't their fault, of course you wouldn't be angry at them for leaving. So why be angry at your son for having an illness that made life too difficult for him to find answers in? Please don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to hurt your feelings here, I'm just trying to ask a question that seems logical to me. You may have already asked it yourself, I don't know.

I'm glad you found PC and posted. I hope you can find strength and peace by posting and getting feedback here. I hope you can be easy on yourself and your son. You deserve some peace. I wish you well on your journey to finding that peace and acceptance. Take good care!

Hugssssss
J

[Logden]

Thank you J.....I'm not angry at my son for having an illness....I'm angry at him for acting without thinking.
I'm angry at him for missing out on the rest of his life. I view his "choice" as an impulsive act driven by drinking brandy, not winning the lottery (the police said the floor was littered with lottery tickets) and the Bears lost.

I'm angry at him for not being here to see his first grandson, and for leaving his loved ones devastated and wondering why. I'm angry that I'm angry again...that his father and I have to go through this all over again...or at least I do.

I tried to talk about "it" at lunch today and my husband said that talking to a professional would only "demean it"....that it is, what it is...and nothing can change it or bring him back or undo the harm. the damage has been done he said and I'll have to find a way to live with it....just as he has.
But then he added..."do what you want..do what you need to do but leave me out of it."

Well, I obviously need to talk about it.

I'm sorry if I sound angry J....but I am.

[Logden]

Thank you all for your thoughtful responses..I am taking a break.

[sabby]

((((((((((((((((Logden))))))))))))))

Everyone deals in different ways with all emotions. If you need to talk to a T to work through your anger, then I say go for it. At least you will be doing something constructive to help yourself.

I understand the anger. This kind of thing leaves so many angry....for so many different reasons. Many questions and no real answers...*sigh*

Take good care of YOU!

Hugssss
J

[Logden]

I don't know whether to laugh or cry, whether it's irony or divine intervention.

We went to Bible study last night...first time in a very long time and the subject under discussion was one of the Psalms....# 13 if memory serves me...

"How long must I bear pain in my soul,
and have sorrow in my heart all day long?

Give light to my eyes, or I will sleep the sleep of death..

*********
so one of the members felt compelled to bring up SUICIDE and what a "cowardly act" it is...

I glanced at my husband who put a finger to his lips...silencing any response I might bring forth...

One of the members said, "having lost a son 16 months ago..I know that this is a great mystery and there are no answers that we'd understand.

I looked around that table and there were three of us, that I know of, who have lost children to suicide...out of maybe 20 attendees.

Oh my...look what I just wrote...I have to double that number because the three of us are pairs and then I have to remember that the statistics say that it's at least 9.....

Our Pastor brought me to tears by saying that she doesn't pretend to understand it...she knows from her years prior to going to seminary, that the grief lasts for generations.

And she reminded us of the shortest prayer....Help, Help, Help....

I hate the month of August! And January!

i'm so sorry for your pain.......

[Hope677]

I am sorry for your loss and I too have experienced the anger, guilt and pain that accompanies the loss of a loved one to suicide. My mother killed herself 14 years ago, I was 17 years old. I can't say that it has gotten easier for me, but it has changed because I am now a wife and mother. I have a completely different perspective now and I have a lot more anger inside me now. Her actions have affected every aspect of my life and it is hard to let go of the things she took away from me. If you ever need to talk I am here. My prayers are with you.

[Rhapsody]

<font color="purple"> ((((((( HUGS ))))))) ~ ~ ~ ~ ((((((( HUGS ))))))) </font>

As a mother that lost her handicap daughter at the young tender age of ten years old..... let me say that you will never totally get over the loss of a child, but you will be able to laugh and live again as you heal from within... as you realize that his death was not about a lack of love for any one or lack of consideration for his son, but rather more to do with the inner emotional hell he was living in.

Might I suggest this book for YOU? - "Feelings Buried Alive Never Die"

PC LINK: http://psychcentral.com/reviews/showcat.php/cat/5

<font color="purple"> ((((((( HUGS ))))))) ~ ~ ~ ~ ((((((( HUGS ))))))) </font>

[Logden]

I completely understand Hope...she is missing out on being a grandmother to your children...She's missed a lot of living.

It seems like an endless grief... when you think it's finally behind you and you've accepted it and are at some kind of peace with it.....whamo!!

How can I be so angry at someone I love so dearly and miss so terribly???

[Logden]

Thank you for the recommendation Rhapsody, I'll send for it.
I'm so sorry for the loss of your daughter at such a tender age. We lost a grandson when he was 8...a medical error..they overdosed him on codine following a simple adnoidectomy.

Those losses are so hard to understand and accept. The big difference is they had no choice. Our son chose to die and it makes no sense to me...he had everything to live for.

It's the ultimate rejection....I'm glad I'm old...I'm tired of living.
I would never put my loved ones thru another suicide now that I know the consequences but I'm tired.

I will read the book you suggested...thank you!

[Danialla]

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
Logden said:
Thank you for the recommendation Rhapsody, I'll send for it.
I'm so sorry for the loss of your daughter at such a tender age. We lost a grandson when he was 8...a medical error..they overdosed him on codine following a simple adnoidectomy.

Those losses are so hard to understand and accept. The big difference is they had no choice. Our son chose to die and it makes no sense to me...he had everything to live for.

It's the ultimate rejection....I'm glad I'm old...I'm tired of living.
I would never put my loved ones thru another suicide now that I know the consequences but I'm tired.

I will read the book you suggested...thank you!

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">

I am so sorry for all of your losses, but please read what you wrote above.......
"I'm glad I'm old...I'm tired of living.
I would never put my loved ones thru another suicide now that I know the consequences ,but I'm tired."

Your son did not know the consequences of his actions. In his depressed, overwhelmed, etc. state of mind he probably felt he was SAVING the people he loved from anymore hurt that he could cause. (Depression does crazy things to someones sense of logic).

Suicide is an awful thing for everyone, the person that feels driven to do it, and everyone left behind.

Please forgive him, and be ready to share all the funny stories that only you and your husband know about him with his new grandson.........and his son.

I am sorry if I have come on too strong. Take care.

[Logden]

No Danialla, you did not come on too strong.

Our minds are interesting things....we can "know" something to be true while at the same time the anger and pain just override it. Oh and let's don't leave out the little gem "guilt".

We have been down this long road before...and it took us years, literally, to find our way. Having survived his loss before...I know I can do it again...but I'm older now, and tireder now and frankly less interested now.

I could not have asked for a more wonderful son...he was the light of my life as I'm sure his new grandson will be for someon's' life.

When he killed himself and I literally was unable to function, his sisters asked me.."Aren't we enough reason to live? Did you love him more?" No, of course I didn't love him more...the difference is, I buried him.

Thank you for your response...I am truly trying to get "up", the floor is uncomfortable.