[CMFox]

Hey all, new here. A warning this post contains matters of a sexual nature.

I have gone thru a very painful process breaking up with my girlfriend, whom I'll call "Sarah". I'm posting because I am struggling to come to terms with our break up and what I view to be, frankly, bizarre and contradictory behavior. I am appealing to anyone here with experience in these matters to give me some insight into the "whys" of her actions.

A little background on Sarah. Firstly, she was raped at 14. A couple of older boys from her school drugged her. She has gaps in her memory, but knows it descended into a gang rape. Tragically, she didn't receive any help in the form of therapy... instead, she went straight down into a very dark hole. From that point on to the present (she's now 28 -- 14 years later), she has been in a continuous string of relationships... those relationships mostly contained aspects of abuse -- verbal and sometimes physical. She hooked up and slept with numerous low lifes as her life became riddled with trauma and drugs.

Sarah is one of my best friend's sister. When we hooked up, she had just ended a three year relationship with a man I will call "Jack". Jack had been abusive emotionally and, in her words, she spent "three years in a private hell" with him, which eventually culminated in him smashing her eye socket. Her history wasn't known to me until we got much closer.

Sarah and I were together for a year. Things were all right for the first few months. Throughout our relationship I was loving, caring and considerate. I fell for her completely and NEVER in my life would I have raised a hand or uttered a malicious word to her. She believed she "finally deserved a nice guy". It was great because as well as our attraction we had a fantastic friendship. Goodness, she even went on to say I was the best partner she'd ever had!

As we got closer she became increasingly uncomfortable with sex. Either I would have to give her long, deep massages to relax her or she'd have to be slightly intoxicated. There were aspects of sex where she would want me to "talk dirty" and act in a semi-violent way. I discovered she had to conjure up abusive imagery to get off. She found any intimate contact threatening.

As well as the sexual dysfunction there were other issues. She displayed OCD-like behavior in her household. On some occasions when she'd been drinking a different "Sarah" would emerge. I can only liken it to a juvenile and angry young girl.

We broke up a month ago when she decided to become celibate. She'd become increasingly irritable with me and kept asking for her space. She believed her issues with sex had to be dealt with and she thought she was long overdue for the single life and some self-discovery. I was upset, of course. But I accepted that and supported her decision. She said that our relationship wouldn't effectively change, given we hadn't really been having sex as it was. She wanted me to be her rock and, in a sense, her pseudo-boyfriend. There were tears, laughs and hugs -- the works. She thought our relationship would actually improve as the pressure of sex would no longer be on her. She even wanted me to still share her bed when I came round.

The following week we caught up and she seemed all right. I stayed at her place and voiced some concerns -- concerns that I put down to some silly worst case scenario thinking. I was worried she might just jump in with someone else -- as she's always done. She was incredulous at me even suggesting such a thing! Her doing that would invalidate the main reason we ended things, for pete's sake.

Fast forward to 2 weeks later... she's back with Jack. It was the most gut wrenching thing to discover. Back with this pot-addicted chronic depressive who aint going anywhere in life fast. Sarah was cold with me... she said "you're not going to make me feel bad about this." She then proceeded to say she's "head over heels in love with him and wants to have his children." ???? I'm sitting here in absolute disbelief! Where did the Sarah of a fortnight ago disappear to? A week later I contacted her via text and wished to arrange a time to get my stuff. She was bitter. I sent a few texts outlining why I was so hurt by what had happened - I was sincere. I wasn't nasty at all. Throughout this I have never said anything hurtful, as tempting as it's been. She sent back "STOP HARRASSING ME."

I don't understand how someone can "turn" so quickly. She's gone and done exactly what she said she wouldn't and doesn't want to have a thing to do with me! I know it's over... what I want is some insight into my messed up ex so I can come to terms with this behavior. If anyone more seasoned in life and with some psychological know how has some insight, I'm all ears? What on earth is she doing?

Thanks in advance for any response. Cheers.

[shadowdancer]

what she's doing is coping the best way she knows how. as hurt as you are, this probably doesn't even come close to being anywhere near about you. it goes back back back into her history. unresolved trauma is never truly dormant. it is just waiting for the best time to remind you it's there. poor Sarah, to have to live with it.

There are so many things tied to abuse of the nature Sarah experienced that will come back to haunt her. i know. her intimate relationship with you was probably so foreign to her that after the initial bliss wore off, the doubts set in. basically she probably sat around often wondering when it would happen: when would you turn into everyone other male she knew and hurt her? when would she get what she (feels like she) deserved?

there is unworked through guilt, anger, shame, frustration, fear...all that and more tied into that trauma that Sarah went through. abusive relationships are familiar to her... they are what she has had, they are what she expects. and they are probably what she feels like she deserves and has earned. your relationship was the 'too-good' type. the type that feels 'too good to be true' and ultimately, 'too good' for her.

she went back to what she was familiar with... better the familiar bad than the unknown bad, to her way of thinking. the closer you two become, the more important you become and the less she could allow that to happen. her history probably feels like a stain she carries around that will spill onto all her new relationships... so far that has been true. then you came and as you became more important to her, she just couldn't allow that stain to affect you too. she would rather walk away from a good thing with you then have to wait around wondering when you would see 'what she really is' (in her mind) and then have to watch you leave.

does what i'm saying make any sense? she wants better but probably feels she doesn't deserve better, and doesn't trust anything 'better' that comes along. experience has taught her that 'better' is just a new version of bad.

Sarah needs therapy... i'm afraid there is little you can do for her except to be her friend if she'll let you and offer her the suggestion that perhaps therapy would be a good idea. if she proceeds with therapy she will need your support if you can give it. otherwise, she is probably not going to welcome contact from you.

in answer to 'what on earth is she doing?" she is doing what she thinks is necessary to protect herself. it may seem convoluted to you...but trust me, in Sarah's mind it probably makes a lot of sense.

if you have other questions, or if i'm not making any sense, feel free to PM me. i'll keep Sarah and you in my thoughts and prayers.

-shadow

[jmo531]

My heart aches for the both of you. For Sarah, I understand her completely. I too was raped as a teen and to tell you honestly, you never truely get over it (at least I havent) and intimacy with my husband is still difficult. At times I feel dirty and ashamed and physically ill. Nothing to do with him but my past. For you I feel bad for because your love for her seems so genuine and honest. She probably has never felt such feelings in a relationship before and this is where I have to agree with Ozzie. Sarah probably beleives in her heart that she doesnt deserve the goodness that you have provided her because she has been hurt so badley.

I agree with Shadow and her post as well. I am sorry that things ended this way for you. It is not easy for anyone in this situation.

Hugs to you and to Sarah,

Jen

[CMFox]

Thanks all.

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shadowdancer said:
Sarah needs therapy... i'm afraid there is little you can do for her except to be her friend if she'll let you and offer her the suggestion that perhaps therapy would be a good idea. if she proceeds with therapy she will need your support if you can give it. otherwise, she is probably not going to welcome contact from you.

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Unfortunately it's come to that. Her brother (and my friend) is dismayed she's got back with Jack... he's also intimated that she doesn't want any contact. It hurts when you've cared for someone like that and they seemingly feel the same for you and, suddenly, you're a pariah --and you haven't DONE anything. I've been consistent, loving and understanding and now, she's back with a man whom has abused her. In spite of all her protestations of keeping single she didn't last a fortnight.

Has she turned off from me completely because deep down, she knows how hurt I am and how inconsistent and hurtful her behavior has been. To face me would be to confront her behavior, perhaps? As you have all said she is "protecting " herself. Every gesture post-break up I've made has been met with hostility. I'm NOT a jerk or an embittered man. She can't seem to handle the fact I'm not behaving like a callous, nasty piece of work. Would me acting as such (not that I would) help her "justify" things more? "Yes, there's that abusive and uncaring man I knew was there all along..."

When we broke up I knew why. Her hooking up with Jack has invalidated the reason! Argh!

In spite of her behavior I still care for her. We had great fun together and it'd be tragic if a friendship couldn't be savaged out of this. ..

[shadowdancer]

(((((((((CMFox))))))))))

Her knowledge that you are hurt is probably only a very small part of why she doesn't want contact with you. The larger part is probably that you remind her of good things she doesn't think she deserves. It would be like being in the middle of a desert and dying from thirst while having a companion who has a million bottles of water and yet won't give you a drop. You are a painful reminder of what she feels she doesn't deserve, what she feels she can't have. Contact with you is like rubbing salt in her own wounds.

Now granted, that isn't your fault. the problem is that she doesn't know any other way to protect herself from the additional pain of seeing you. She has settled for what she has with Jack because she can't have what she wants. She can't have it, NOT because you wouldn't give it to her, but because she can't allow herself to have it.

In her mind it is better to go with something that is and always has been bad then have something that was so good turn into something bad.

Yes if you were to act bitter and hostile then it would simply justify what she has feared all along. if you can help it, please don't do that.

i know this hurts you but she isn't doing it to hurt you. she's doing it to protect herself. that doesn't lessen the pain for you and probably doesn't make a whole lot of sense to a healthy way of thinking. the problem is that she's not healthy right now. she really needs therapy to help her sort out the ways that her abuse has skewed her reality. if she gets therapy it will still be a long and painful process for her.

her abusers have gotten her in many ways: they have hurt her once (when it happened), they have skewed her entire outlook on the world so that she has come to see pain as what she deserves, if she does get help then they will hurt her again (because she will no doubt have to relive much of it), and once she is healed enough to have a normal relationship her view of the world will still be somewhat tarnished by her experience and it's aftermath.

i understand your need to validate what has happened and help yourself understand her reasons. as cliche as it may seem, i will tell you that it isn't you. it is the good stuff you represent that she "doesn't deserve" and "can't have."

if she doesn't want contact, which isn't surprising to me (having been in her shoes), then there is little you can do. if she does get the help she needs then she might search you out later. or maybe not. i would tell her brother to suggest to her to get therapy. unfortunately, no matter how much you care for her, that is all you can do.

i've been here and done this and seen it from both sides. if you want to talk more about it you are welcome to PM me... i will be happy to share my experience with you.

in the meantime, i am sorry for your pain and for Sarah's. i hope that she can get the healing she needs and i hope that you, too, can find the healing you need.

-shadow

[CMFox]

Hi ShadowDancer.

I know she's not set out to hurt me. She has, but it wasn't he intent. And I assure you the last thing I'll ever do is be a nasty so-and-so. The best thing I can do for myself, is be true to myself.

I don't know if you can relate to her skewed perceptions of love. Not long after things got started she told me she was falling in love with me. It seemed very suddened and I was taken aback. After a month we started to really bond... the first 5 months were the "golden period", so to speak. I loved making her happy. I organised a romantic evening with candles, roses, champange etc in a private room. She was reduced to tears as no one had ever done anything like this for her. I REALLY felt I was the best thing to happen for her.

But as this year has progressed she started to run hot and cold on me. I didn't respond with anger and abuse but with understanding - "I love you - let's talk about this".

She was torn and afraid of saying she was "in love" with me. On our break up she said she "didnt know what love is". Then of course, a few weeks later she's "head over heels in love with Jack". What IS love for her?

As for her getting therapy, she said "in a couple of years", after she'd finished her studies. In that time she wished to remain celibate -- but retain me as a close friend, even if others were confused about the status of our relationship. It's always felt off to me she would admit the need for therapy, but put it off into the distant future. Now of course, she's with Jack and I've seen a wholly different side of her.

I feel like yelling "but I'm the good guy!" She thinks he's changed. She always stayed in contact with him and continued having difficulties with him some time into the relationship. I asked her when I found out about Jack why she could be with him and celibate, but not me, to which she coldly responded "because I'm not in love with you." Yet on the break up two weeks previous, she professed she "loved me to bits and adored me."

I guess I've really struggled with this inconsistency. I believe she WAS genuine when we broke up, but once I was out of the picture for a week, did something trigger?

Thanks,
a very confused man.

[justaman]

Yes I totally agree with Ozzie. People always believe that they deserve to be treated a certain way, depending on how they were treated at various stages in their life. Such people will feel uncomfortable being treated with respect if they've never had it before. It doesn't make sense to them. They can feel that the nice person is trying to trick them or get something out of them. They assume they have an ulterior motive.

If she's with a 'Jack' type, suddenly her world makes perfect sense to her. It's the world she knows.

That's the only advice I have.

[shadowdancer]

(((((((((CMFox))))))))

inconsistency is the nature of abuse. it's the words saying i love you while the hand beats you. 'love' becomes an even more complicated concept than it normally is. somehow abuse survivors are supposed to hold the polar opposite definitions of love in their heads together: the idea that love is beautiful and pure (from movies and tv) and the idea that love is bruises and pain (from real life). real life trumps the movies.

you can't expect consistency from someone who has not been given consistency. she probably has cared about you and probably still does in some part of her. however, Jack is the one that fits with the only definition of 'love' that she has. you didn't 'fit' in that definition...in the 'honeymoon' stage that can be ignored. but with enough time the tension inside her builds as she waits for you to fulfill the other part of 'love'...the pain part.

she probably wants to love you...but she wants to protect herself more, which is understandable given what has happened to her. and once again, contact with you probably only serves to remind her of how 'unworthy' she is and how she doesn't 'deserve' a relationship with you.

this inconsistency is painful for you...and it is painful for her too. but it is all she has with which to protect herself.

i am sure that her reasons for breaking up with you were genuine to some degree...however, she doesn't know how to operate outside the confines of a relationship, specifically an abusive one. many girls jump around in so many relationships that they begin to feel insecure and 'wrong' without a relationship to fall into. their relationships begin to define them. she seems to fit that description...it makes it even worse that her relationships are abusive because abusive relationships all by themselves weave complicated webs that tangle around you and won't let you free.

she probably tried to maintain her single status... but under pressure from her own mind that she needed to be with someone (particularly an abusive someone) and no doubt under double pressure from Jack to come back to him (with all of his false promises) she gave in. she didn't have enough self-identity and self-respect (thanks to the abuse) to stay away.

inconsistency is often the nature of survivors. the desire to give in to something good wars with the need to stay alert for signs of danger and makes us both hot and cold.

i fear i'm babbling again and therefore not making too much sense. i hope that you understand what i am trying to say. if not, i am happy to clarify.

i am sorry for your pain.

-shadow

[mrb020377]

CMFox first i would like to say welcome to Psych Central. This is a community full of people that are helpful and very supportive.

I read your post and i am thinking.,, I am thinking about how you must feel, how she must feel. Tehre are a lot of us here( myself included) that have been raped or sexually abused. It is sucha trauamtic experience that it takes years maybe even a lifetime to completely deal withit. it is something that never goes away. It is something that you never completely get over. It is something that is very easily triggered. Your friend Sarah needs some help coping with what happened to her.
Growing up, living with step dad, that abused me in any way possible, i always thought i would never find someone to understand me, to love me for me. But i did. He has been there for me even when i felt i didnt deserve him.
I am so sorry that you are having to deal with this. I am sorry that she is having to deal with this also.

We are here for you, to support you through this, ok?

((((((((((((((((((cmfox)))))))))))

[CMFox]

ShadowDancer.

No, you're not babbling. What you're saying makes sense and you've been a fantastic help. You're right when you say she doesn't know how to operate outside of relationships. At 14, her innocence was essentially snatched from her and since that period -- such an important, developmental age -- she has been in and out of relationships. As much as it pains me to know she is with Jack, I can understand why. He's a known quantity -- in spite of the fact he's a pot addicted, potentially violent man.

I think the best place to be right now is an objective one. I have felt incredibly angry and viewing this as a personal rejection, as well as trying to make sense out of inconsistent behavior. Best I step back and not view these actions as coming from a healthy, stable personality. Otherwise I'll continually be lurching back and forth forever making no sense out of it.

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mrb023077 said:
i always thought i would never find someone to understand me, to love me for me. But i did. He has been there for me even when i felt i didnt deserve him.
I am so sorry that you are having to deal with this. I am sorry that she is having to deal with this also.

We are here for you, to support you through this, ok?

((((((((((((((((((cmfox)))))))))))

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Thanks.

I'm sorry she has to deal with this too. I'm sorry she has had to reject a genuinely nice, loving guy who would have stuck through thick and thin. I would like -- somehow -- to convey to her that I'm not angry and that, at any time in the future, I'm here for support if she needs it and wants a friend -- as I'd like to still consider her one. Sadly, that gesture too may be trampled upon. It would offend her self-reliant nature and be another sharp reminder of the sort of person that I am.

I have a friendship stone which she gave me. It was broken in two, so thought I could use it as a gesture. Just a half in the mail and ask her to hold on to it... I thought it would be symbolic. I guess a part of me hopes in such a gesture she might break down and cry, seeing what she's done and come to me for support. It seems the more likely response would be bitterness.

[shadowdancer]

i am glad that what i've said made sense and i'm glad if it helped you out in any way. an objective view is definitely a good one to maintain if you can, although i understand how much you are hurting.

it is going to be essential that you view her actions in light of her abuse. that is where they are based. they are rooted in her past and it is unfortunately shadowing her present and her future.

given what you've told us that she's said i doubt that she'll be very happy with gestures that indicate a future friendship...but you never know. if you do make a gesture to that effect i would make it brief and to the point. something that won't make her too angry or be an incredibly painful reminder of what she no longer has.

the friendship stone could work...though i doubt that if she does break down and cry that you'll ever know about it. sending it through the mail is a good idea. it protects you from rejection if there is any and allows her to accept the gesture without having to show you what it means to her. it may not work but it's worth a shot. only time will tell after that.

i hope that you are doing well. thank you for demonstrating your affection for Sarah by coming here and trying to understand what's going on from her perspective. i have a lot of respect for what you have said here. it probably doesn't mean a lot, but i wanted you to know it.

-shadowdancer

[CMFox]

It does mean a lot to me. Thanks ShadowDancer.

I would like to make a small, brief gesture, but I think it would be a futile effort. Perhaps some time later down the track, but I think everything's still too raw at the moment. Her brother, for example, has just had a going away party (he's off to London for three years -- I'll miss em!) I was "unable" to go because "she would be there." He anticipated her reaction, a reaction that only confirms for me she's utterly incapable of fostering any sort of relationship with me. I don't know what she'd say to me if I confronted her, but on a deeper level I think I've got her pegged. To honestly confront her behavior towards me would be to confront herself and clearly, she's not ready for that.

I care about her well being but I have my own life to move on with. We were in a relationship, and we were good friends. It's a real shame she has to respond like this to cope. A real shame.

As for the nature of inconsistency... Oh dear. I think love is what she wants more than anything, but it's the one thing that eludes her because she doesn't understand it. She "loved me heaps and adored me", saying "she didn't know what love really was", then "I'm head over heels in love with Jack" ... she's all over the place! She professes love for friends as well, but has an ability to switch "off" with remarkable ease. It's scary.

[CMFox]

Well ShadowDancer...

I sent the friendship stone, with a letter attached. I didn't ask her to come back to me or tell her to get out of the relationship with Jack. I told her the story of "this guy" (being me) who got a wonderful gift from a girl... how sweet and thoughtful it was. I thanked her for contributing to my life, saying I'd become a better person for it. In the end, I said my friendship was always available to her at anytime and, to take care.

I didn't ramble on and on... there was no pressure in the letter. I only said my friendship was "there" - and always would be.

How does that sound? I'm not sure if I've done the right thing here. If there is in fact a right/wrong thing to do in circumstances like this.

[shadowdancer]

i think you've done a very right thing. it is good that you avoided pressuring her and it sounds like you said just the right stuff to keep the pressure off.

i hope that you can move on and let your life take you where you are meant to go.

she is lucky to have a friend like you now let's just hope that one day she realizes that before it is too late.

((((((((((((CMFox)))))))))))) take care of yourself and let me know if there's ever anything that i can do for ya.


shadow

[SweetCrusader]

Hi there,

I haven't posted in a long time here, but I saw the subject of your post while checking my pms, and I wanted to read what you had to say.

Just one additional thought to offer you. You said you feel like shouting "but I'm the good guy"! I know some women in my life (and actually have probably been one of them) who consistently reject the guy who is loving and available- and completely WONDERFUL!- and consistently cling to the guy who is rejecting and insecure and maybe even abusive. My mother once said that not only does she feel she doesn't deserve the good guy, but she also wonders what is wrong with him that he would love HER.

When a woman doesn't feel worth loving, and yet someone completely adores her, I think some have a tendency to think "but I'm a piece of crap, so something's wrong with him if he doesn't see that." Women like that are constantly trying to "win over" the one whose love and care they cannot have, because then they have (in their minds) proven their worth. This may or may not be Sarah's case, but it's some food for thought.

Another thing is that learning to be loving is SCARY SCARY SCARY, and a person who doesn't have experience with secure attachments is very often back-and-forth on attaching to someone. Anxious-Ambivalent is the term for it in psychology. It's a "push me, pull you" dynamic where she may feel desperate and needy and madly "in love" one minute, pulling you as close as she can get you and trying to suck up every last drop of your love because she doesnt' know when it will be available again. The next, she might be cold- suspicious of you, wondering what's coming next, expecting you to discover at last that she's worthless. During these times, she is too afraid- too focused on keeping herself safe, to even see that you haven't actually changed and that she is safe this time.

Many people experience the same dynamic when they have a loving, supportive therapist. I know I do. I have given her a run for her money so many times. I tell her how much I love and appreciate and need, need, need her (which is all true), and then I wig out and think she doesn't care, she will reject me, etc. I find every failing I can in her and I use that as evidence that I was right all along- I can never be truly safe and cared for. She has told me that the only way to heal this is to risk everything, keep taking steps toward her even when it scares the h**** out of me. I likened it to being told "Oh it's okay, go ahead and walk into oncoming traffic. I swear you won't get hurt. Trust me!" That's about the same, in our minds, as telling someone who's been abused that they are safe to bond and be vulnerable now. No way buddy, I know I'm gonna get smashed and blown to pieces!

Conversely, when I was at my lowest point in therapy and my disorganized attachment and fear of rejection was causing me to behave completely ridiculously toward her (and hurtfully, I might add, although I didn't mean to hurt anyone)-- she told me that if I wanted to go and be self-destructive and shove her away, she would LET ME. She said she would not go down with me- she would not do that to me, nor to herself. I felt thrown away, to be honest. I felt about as hurt as I have ever been. Then she said, she wouldn't trap me- not with hate and NOT WITH LOVE. Even when you love someone and want the best for them, sometimes the best you can do for the both of you is say your peace, express your love, and let go. They will have to make the choice about where to go from there, if you are willing to still be around if they come around again.

It might be that time for you and Sarah. Best of luck to you.

[shadowdancer]

SC, it's good to see you post you always have something wise and encouraging to say. i totally agree with your post and see way too much of myself in it as well. thank you.


shadow

[CMFox]

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shadowdancer said:
i think you've done a very right thing. it is good that you avoided pressuring her and it sounds like you said just the right stuff to keep the pressure off.

i hope that you can move on and let your life take you where you are meant to go.

she is lucky to have a friend like you now let's just hope that one day she realizes that before it is too late.

((((((((((((CMFox)))))))))))) take care of yourself and let me know if there's ever anything that i can do for ya.


shadow

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You've been very supportive and for taking time out to help a stranger, I thank you.

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SweetCrusader said:
Just one additional thought to offer you. You said you feel like shouting "but I'm the good guy"! I know some women in my life (and actually have probably been one of them) who consistently reject the guy who is loving and available- and completely WONDERFUL!- and consistently cling to the guy who is rejecting and insecure and maybe even abusive. My mother once said that not only does she feel she doesn't deserve the good guy, but she also wonders what is wrong with him that he would love HER.

When a woman doesn't feel worth loving, and yet someone completely adores her, I think some have a tendency to think "but I'm a piece of crap, so something's wrong with him if he doesn't see that." Women like that are constantly trying to "win over" the one whose love and care they cannot have, because then they have (in their minds) proven their worth. This may or may not be Sarah's case, but it's some food for thought.

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It's certainly food for thought. Sarah's sense of self-worth is very low. On occasion, she would ask "am I good person?" It was a very important question for her. There were also occasions where she would ask why I didn't want to be with someone else. These were times when she was feeling especially down... in those times I would offer my support and reassurances, which she appreciated, but I don't think she quite understood them... as if she weren't deserving of them.

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Another thing is that learning to be loving is SCARY SCARY SCARY, and a person who doesn't have experience with secure attachments is very often back-and-forth on attaching to someone. Anxious-Ambivalent is the term for it in psychology. It's a "push me, pull you" dynamic where she may feel desperate and needy and madly "in love" one minute, pulling you as close as she can get you and trying to suck up every last drop of your love because she doesnt' know when it will be available again. The next, she might be cold- suspicious of you, wondering what's coming next, expecting you to discover at last that she's worthless. During these times, she is too afraid- too focused on keeping herself safe, to even see that you haven't actually changed and that she is safe this time.

Many people experience the same dynamic when they have a loving, supportive therapist. I know I do. I have given her a run for her money so many times. I tell her how much I love and appreciate and need, need, need her (which is all true), and then I wig out and think she doesn't care, she will reject me, etc. I find every failing I can in her and I use that as evidence that I was right all along- I can never be truly safe and cared for. She has told me that the only way to heal this is to risk everything, keep taking steps toward her even when it scares the h**** out of me. I likened it to being told "Oh it's okay, go ahead and walk into oncoming traffic. I swear you won't get hurt. Trust me!" That's about the same, in our minds, as telling someone who's been abused that they are safe to bond and be vulnerable now. No way buddy, I know I'm gonna get smashed and blown to pieces!

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The anxious/ambivalent thing may well have been present. It always seemed like we had our "on" time, then our "off" time, where she would need her space. When we were together she would, essentially, "draw" me into her life. But then I was separated afterwards... there was no consistency.

Initially in the relationship, she moved at a stunning speed which scared me. She, essentially, won ME over. Unfortunately after the "honeymoon period" her commitment started to wane. There was, well, ambivalence! When we first met I had plans to travel to London, but I abandoned those because I deemed our relationship more important. I assured her that I was "there" for her, I wasn't going anywhere and she was with a secure, caring guy who DID adore her for her mind and her body - her soul damnit! As those reassurances came from me, she started to recoil slightly.

As for the fault finding... that rings more than a few bells! She accused me of not being supportive to her needs and I was incredulous! She cited ONE incident where I was late in arriving at her new flat to help tidy things up - late because I was held up at work, which was beyond my power. This seemed to override all my other loving and supportive behavior!

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Conversely, when I was at my lowest point in therapy and my disorganized attachment and fear of rejection was causing me to behave completely ridiculously toward her (and hurtfully, I might add, although I didn't mean to hurt anyone)-- she told me that if I wanted to go and be self-destructive and shove her away, she would LET ME. She said she would not go down with me- she would not do that to me, nor to herself. I felt thrown away, to be honest. I felt about as hurt as I have ever been. Then she said, she wouldn't trap me- not with hate and NOT WITH LOVE. Even when you love someone and want the best for them, sometimes the best you can do for the both of you is say your peace, express your love, and let go. They will have to make the choice about where to go from there, if you are willing to still be around if they come around again.

It might be that time for you and Sarah. Best of luck to you.

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It is that time for me. I believe that now more than ever. Since the break up - or at least since she rekindled things with Jack - I have tried to be understanding. I have contacted her and been met with hostility, when I feel I'm the one who should be indulging on bitterness and anger! Now I've sent the letter I've said my final piece... there's nothing more to add. If she texts me telling me to "LEAVE ME ALONE!", fine. If she doesn't contact me, fine. I need to let this go and move on with MY life. Good luck to Sarah. Even though I've endured lies and wholly inconsistent and hurtful behavior, I'm not going to lash out, but I'm not going to pine for her either.

Thank you for your support.

[CMFox]

I forgot to add ...

This gesture is the last thing I'll be doing in light of her more recent behavior. I have discovered through others that Sarah has painted me to others (her mother and her brother) as a less-than-caring boyfriend... with intimations that there was even mistreatment in that I've been harrassing her! I knew she would choose not to include the "nature" of our break up to others (such as "I still want you in my life... almost as a pseudo boyfriend etc".) But why say I was something I wasn't?

Is it the only way she knows to feel better about herself? To say I wasn't all that flash makes her latest relationship with Jack more palatable? It's all well and good if she gives me the cold shoulder but to influence others in that manner? That really, really bothers me.

[SpazKatt]

Hi and welcome.
I am a girl who as my most current ex-boyfriend called "too emotionally needy" and that is the reason he broke up with me. Basically I was in an abusive relationship for 3 years and I finally left him, afterwards I began sleeping around, which I never dreamed of doing before, for some odd reason to relive my pain. The sleeping around didn't help at all and eventually I was raped. I have since had issues with having sex after being raped, as soon as I begin to feel good, I will begin to cry or I will have to tell them to stop. I broke up with my 1st boyfriend after the rape because I didn't want to have sex and I didn't want to burden him with my pain. I then met a wonderful guy, who encouraged me to tell him what happened and got me into therapy. As we continued our relationship, I had many "breakdowns" as he called them and he said he loved me but didn't know how to handle it. Any how, when I had sex with him it was the same. I don't think she's doing it because of you, and as hard as I tried to love my boyfriend I kept pushing him away because I didn't feel I deserved the support he was offering. The thing is I didn't TRY to do that, afterwards it's like WHY do I keep doing this!!! It's almost like something takes over my emotions and actions. This is my story and I hope it helps

[CMFox]

AHHH! Folks, I need some help. I feel frustrated and sick. You've all been fantastic so I hope I'm not pushing my luck...

Thank you SpazKatt. It's amazing reading everyone's personal stories and in each of them, I see a bit of Sarah.

I don't want to be too burdensome with continual questions but I was hoping if you guys could see anything in what I'm about to tell you. I had a troublesome weekend. A friend of mine who had been friends with Sarah prior to a fallout told me some unsettling things. My friend lived with Sarah for a few months and is very aware of Sarah's problems - in fact she was in a relationship with Sarah's brother for 7 years - which ended recently.

Anyways, as for some details: My friend's (we'll call her Kate) fallout with Sarah has some parallels with mine, namely the percieved betrayal on Sarah's part and the maliciousness of it. Because of the fallout between them I took Sarah's side, which in hindsight was short sighted of me. I only caught up with Kate after my breakup with Sarah.

What bothered me immensely was discovering Sarah had been complaining and *****ing about me for some time before the break up - yet none of these things were apparent or communicated to me BY Sarah. Sarah would say I annoyed her, got in her space and "loved her so much."

Yet, one night, she told me to think of her flat as "my second home" ?? And often, she would complain to me about - you guessed it - Kate. Sarah had told Kate how much she "loved" her since they'd first met and, even if things between her and her brother didn't work out, she wanted to remain close.

It would seem Kate heard similar platitudes as I did. Afterall our breakup was predicated on the fact that she didn't truly understand what love was and she needed to be single... but at the same time she wanted to retain me as a close friend, meaning we'd still hang out, talk and even share the same BED together when I stayed. She spoke of this amazing attraction between us and how much she adored me. She spoke of how she considered me a part of her FAMILY!

Yet, all this is cast aside in a matter of weeks. I mean, if this were all one giant ruse to give me the boot she sure went about it in a convoluted way...

Kate has been supportive and brutally honest with me these past few weeks. She's a clinical psychologist so I take stock in what she says. Sarah is, in her opinion, quite a severe case of borderline, with dissociative symptoms emerging at times and of course, PTSD. She never got the help she should've when she was 14 and the rape was a nasty beginning to a whole load of nasty incidents. Kate also told me Sarah has a history of seeing counsellors and pulling the wool over their eyes.

Ugh! It's just so frustrating. I know she's pretty messed up and I do have empathy for what she's gone through, but does that account for what seems to be a cold and at times-malicious personality? It seems all the more contridictary when Sarah spoke of "love" being the most important. Did she speak of love and TRY to embrace it yet, tragically, never could? She spoke so PASSIONATELY about people and about life! Was she aware deep down there was this dark hole she was trying to fill in with all these protestations of caring and love? How can someone say all those things in good conscience yet behave in a polar opposite manner?

AHH! I'm sorry I'm ranting big time. I know I can't excuse or undo Sarah's actions and nor can anyone here with what they say. I just seek some perspective.

Again, thank you for reading my rant. I feel a bit better for it... It's really helped getting these thoughts and feelings out of my head and into written form.

[shadowdancer]

((((((((((((((CMFox))))))))))))))))

unfortunately, i think it is less a case of malicious personality and borderline personality as it is just plain a reaction to everything she's been through.

there is a void there, in her heart, in her mind. she knows that she is missing something and she is trying to make it be there without allowing herself to heal enough for it to be there on its own. she wants to love, to enjoy life... she can't though because of everything she hasn't resolved. and that isn't her fault...it's just the way it is.

healing hurts. trying to resolve issues like the ones she has to deal with hurts really bad. it is reliving the incidents over and over, it is body memories and flashbacks and panic attacks and nightmares. it is misery in a lot of ways.

she isn't trying to hurt you and she's not trying to hurt Kate. it has nothing to do with either of you, unfortunately. i know that doesn't stop you from being hurt...but that isn't what she set out to do.

many survivors that i know struggle with the "push you away-pull you close" mentality. for a lot of us life has to be broken down into black and white, it has to be split and dichotomous. when in reality, most things in life are mixtures of good and bad. if we could adjust to hold both the good and bad in our heads at the same time then maybe our moods wouldn't be so mercurial.

my heart goes out to Sarah...she is in so much pain and she may not even know it.

my heart also goes out to you... i wish that i could help more.

Sarah varied between the two extremes with you and Kate because she doesn't know how to see the gray between the two. She doesn't know how to love you and be annoyed at the same time...it is a hard thing to learn when you have sliced the world neatly down the middle just so that you could make it from one day to the next. It is going to take her lots of time and healing and therapy to do it. i know.

I know you are hurt, and i'm sorry for your pain. Feel free to vent here anytime and i hope that i am helping some. if there's anything else i can do, let me know.


shadow

((((((((Spazz)))))))))) I have no good advice or help, but I wanted you to know that I'm so sorry for what you went through. I pray that you receive much healing and happiness.

[Aran]

She knows that if others know that you are a good, caring person then they will never understand why she left you. She is trying to justify her actions in leaving you for another person whom everyone knows is abusive.

There's also another reason why she might have left. I am 52 years old, I was abused as a child and as a wife, I am now in my fourth marriage this time to a good, kind, caring man. (I'm finally learning from my mistakes)
Because the abuse had conditioned me into being the perpetual victim that was my role in life. I knew the boundaries, I knew the limits of the relationship. In a way, I was the one in control. I knew that I could leave at any time but I didn't. The reason for not leaving was that the unknown was too scary. In an abusive relationship I knew the dance steps, I knew the moves. I have never been able to live on my own only in a relationship, I tried it a few times but always went into another relationship after a short time.
I didn't know how to feel comfortable with just my own company.
I always, (consciously or unconsciously) chose either abusive men or 'needy' men. I was always in control that way.
I think that may one of Sarah's problems.
In a relationship where you are given the freedom to be yourself, you don't know what the hell to do with it. You don't know the rules or the steps.

There is also another reason for always going for abusive relationships. And please don't be offended by this, it is not personal, it has been researched and proven by many psychiatrist and psychologists.

When a person has lived in abusive relationships for a long time and they suddenly find 'mr or miss nice person', someone who respects them and tries to please them etc, they don't know what to do. Some 'victims' can find mr or miss nice person boring.

After an history of abusive relationships you become used ot the adrenaline rushes, yes, caused by fear etc, but your body can and does become addicted to the adrenaline. That is often why an abused person finds mr or miss nice person boring, or unexciting.

It is the fear of the unknown.

And don't forget we always think that we can change the abuser, that it will never happen again. Triumph of hope over experience.

I agree that it is time for you to move on. Try and remember the good times cos there must have been some and don't let this experience embitter you.
You have a lot to give someone, Sarah was not that person.
*hug*

Aran