Venting and I need advice!!

Bare with me hear people,I should have vented all these things before I left therapy today but here goes....I just got out of therapy and a part of me wishes that I never went to begin with if I knew it would be this hard or difficult to deal with. This session was especially hard,I didn't talk much and T was a bit frustrated with me at the end and even a bit mad. T said feels like she's not doing much. Basically she says I'm too dependent now I guess,something I've been trying to avoid from the beginning. T told me didn't read my entire email or responded because I need to be a little more independent,that I really don't need her.I really don't but why do I feel like I do now when I didn't? I guess T feels a bit overwhelmed by me and my life. I told T that she sounds just like everyone else in my life right now. Totally feel abandoned,but at the same time I knew I shouldn't have gotten as close as I did. Kept telling myself that she's my T and not my friend and my heart is trying to make something else of it but my head knows better than that. Now I don't even know how to go back to any more session. Now I just feel like a constant nag and too much for T to deal with, I hate being clingy and then getting pushed away or pushed back. Why I stay in my own little bubble and just stay to myself. I'm a little mad at her because from the get go I told her I'm a bit of a clingy friend and now I'm trying to eliminate myself from her outside of therapy. T would tell me it was okay to text and email but now,I just won't ever do any of that. I'm trying not to over think it,but I'm sure that's what I'm doing. I don't know what else to say,to think. I think I'm going to take a break from T or something,I'm too attached and its scares me.

Some body give me some advice please?
Should I tell her more of what I'm feeling?
How do I deal with these feelings?
I'm about to quit and just not go back!!!!!!

I totally get it - I think. She let you do things, and then she felt it was too much and told you that you didn't need her as much as you thought and she doesn't know how she is helping. Is that it?

I've been there. I let myself get more attached to my T than she was comfortable with (IMHO by her invitation), and her withdrawal was hurtful and done in bits and pieces. I don't think it has to be that way.

It sounds like she told you she couldn't handle you. I think this is a lack of skills on her part. She could have said,
R2MN, I'm struggling. I really want to help you. And I don't know how. I'm afraid you want things from me that I can't give you and don't know how to what to do, and that makes me create distance between you and me. I don't want to hurt you. You came here for help, not more pain. Can you tell me how you feel about me, and what you want and need, and let us see if we an work out something that will give you what you need, and let me feel like I am helping you and not making things worse.

She wouldn't have to agree to anything that she wasn't comfortable with, and you could get more clear with yourself and her. And together you could decide if she was a good match for you.

I wonder if it would help to have this conversation with yourself? or even ask her:

I think you are afraid of me, and I'm feeling hurt because it seems like you are withdrawing. CAn we talk about what I want, and what you have to offer, and see if we can come up with something that works for both of us?

Quote:

...because I need to be a little more independent, that I really don't need her...

translated from professionalspeak to lay language: stop that. I don't like it.

That statement is full of judgments and distancing, not empathy and support and insight.
It says to not be like you are. T is supposed to help you make changes, usually slowly, not tell you how you shouldn't be.

I wonder if she is CBT or DBT or something like that?

I'm sorry you're hurting so much! Please keep in mind that there's no shame in needing her

Maybe one step would be trying not to think of it as either/or: not a matter of being too clingy or entirely independent, or of no e-mailing vs e-mailing a lot. I suspect some sort of middle ground needs to be found -and this can be a topic to deal with throughout therapy and for a long time, it's so difficult. Yes, please share your feelings and thoughts with her. I know how it can get overwhelming afterwards, things start to hit you all at once, and then you have to wait until the next session to talk about it. I don't know if it would be helpful for you, but maybe if you write down your thoughts and feelings about this (and/or print out the above) and share them with her next session, to make sure you don't miss anything in the moment.

Good luck

I'm sorry that you feel so hurt that you want to withdraw. There are definitely mixed messages here so it's not your fault to feel confused. If a therapist truly wants to work with you even about dependence/independence this is not exactly a smooth approach to the issue. People become attached for lots of different reasons. Some therapy is actually designed to foster this so that you can see some basic needs and address them. Perhaps bringing that up, like others have suggested, would be helpful in reconnecting in a therapeutic light? I'm not sure because I don't know why your therapist is doing this.

Basically she says I'm too dependent now I guess,something I've been trying to avoid from the beginning.

This sounds like your interpretation of what went down, not a direct quote. Which isn't to say your perception is inaccurate, but sometimes in the heat of the moment, when such terribly sensitive issues come to the fore, we can misinterpret what our therapists are saying. Do you think this could be the case -not entirely, but in part?

How did she convey to you that you were being too dependent? You say 'I guess' so I'm wondering if there's some doubt on your part. It sounds like what she said about the e-mail triggered abandonment fears in you, which is perfectly understandable.

Did she say "too dependent?" Because if she put it that way I'm very sorry, that's not very helpful.

You also fear that you're overwhelming her and of course this is going to be hurtful especially since it's clearly already a great fear of yours IRL -but precisely because of this, you might sense this to be the case when in fact she does not feel this way -in any case, you won't know for sure until you ask, and I hope you do! I think you'll feel better sharing how you feel with her, and asking her how she feels, and I'm hoping you'll find that she thinks a lot more highly of you than you think she does at the moment.

I don't think she is saying that at all. It may be "stop that" but I don't hear the "I don't like it" part. I hear the "this is your job part".

I think there is a strong, and natural tendency when, we *finally* begin to develop a trust in a solid object (therapist) that a natural exurberance of feeling, emotion, sharing comes out.

However, for some, one of our jobs is to regulate that exuberance.... channel it into self understanding and not just sharing or validation.

We have to USE that feeling to help ourselves.

I hear this "use it" from the therapist here, not "I don't like it".

Syra:yess that's it!its like she told me I could do something that intially I didn't want to and now she's just ripping it away from me. And wow,I never thought of it like that. I felt so bad when she said she felt like she was only doing and ounce of help for me and felt so small. I really should talk to her about what I want.I have talked to her about my past projection/transference issues but they went away and I'm so angry and hurt by everything right now,I need to disappear for awhile. She is CBT.

Ultra:Thanks for your compassion,that's just it,I did realize I was texting her a lot and said I would try not to text so much but I rarely ever emailed her,not even weekly. And usually only texted her in the moment of panic/suicidal or I practiced one of her techniques.Its so overwhelming and a part of me wishes that I had never let myself open up that much. In my mind,I kinda felt like it was to good to be true. I don't know when and if I'll go back but I def would need to express this at some point.She told me that I don't need her that its always a rollercoster with me and that it never comes down "so she's overwhelmed" that's when I said you're just like everyone else. I've always feared of being abandoned by her,why it took me so long to open up and trust her and now its like nope,I can't deal with you anymore all of a sudden.

Iota:Thanks for your compassion,I don't know why its so sudden either. I will see if I can talk about dependence issues. It just sucks because I kinda feel like I was set up to fail.

Elliemay: Its weird because I trust her and I honestly didn't feel like I was over doing it. I don't know what I did so wrong

I'm at a point now where I just don't want to go,I need time away,to see if I can really be in therapy,be in therapy with her and also I feel like I tried hard not to reach out for her and I did,so now I'm so lost and hurt and this was the worst session ever!!

I'm sorry you're hurting. This must feel like a rejection, but I'm not sure it is.

It IS important to entertain the idea that you did nothing wrong. I think what you did is completely normal. Odds are your life is not too much for this therapist, she's not pushing you away at all, but helping you to regulate what you are feeling.

Again, USE this feeling of connection and hope.

Also, and I know you are venting and I totally get that. Above all else I hear you.

I would, however, propose that these feelings of rejection come from a very very old place and are not relevant (no matter how much they feel that way) to the current situation.

No, your therapist is not your friend, they are actually something much much better for you perhaps right now.

A person that can help you to make friends, forge connections and live a happier, more interdependent life.

Is there something in this relationship that you can see as different from those who have had in the past? Anything that says that this is not a rejection but something that you can leverage to help you?

Anything at all?

She is responsible for her own feelings of inadequacy, not you. I wonder why she told you this? If you are more independent, will it help her feel more successful??

Ask her exactly what it is that she expects of you, you don't have to guess.

Keep us posted.

I totally understand being angry, and hurt, and wanting a rest. Is there more?

Elliemay: T always told me that I shouldn't have expectations of anyone so high including her and I didn't realize that I was struggling with that until now. I'm not sure they're relevant but right now they feel that way,I'm still trying to process the whole session from today and I know that I'm very impulsive. I always made sure to distance myself a bit from her I just felt all of this was so off guard.
Honestly I feel like she is trying to help me be more independent with this but I also feel as though she's pushing me away the exact way I told her that everyone else would only in a nicer form.
Idk if I'm just crazy and over analyzing everything but my feelings were/are still pretty hurt and I keep telling myself I shouldn't care so much!!!

Antimatter:T gets a bit personal sometimes,so I think that's where it came from. She always says that she says things out of love even if it hurts my feelings,thats not her intention. I really don't know what to think anymore. You're right I should ask her,if I ever go back to her.
Thanks I will!!

Syra:thanks for understanding!!yess actually

Okay initially this topic didn't really come up until the end of the session. This is what happened...she gave me a journal to write in at the beginning of T and very rarely have I read anything for her from it and today I let her read something I had wrote and thats when this whole thing started and now I regret ever letting her read it,if I knew that would've been her reaction!

I was thinking of emailing her and letting her know how I felt about the ending and everything because I'm not sure she got a clear view of what I was feeling and def. not as in depth. I told her I will never email her about anything anymore or text and I'll just wait til the next session. Also I think I might start going every 2 weeks instead of every week, I feel like I'm too much now for weekly and yet another person can't deal with me and is pushing me away!!Every time I start to get close and develop a bond,this happens,why I don't keep friends and keep the ones I do have at a distance!!

I'm confused. What she says MIGHT be true, but it's unclear to me what she means. Is it clear to you? Has she told you what expectations are too high? This sounds to me like a defensive statement, but I wasn't there and perhaps the context makes it more helpful

I imagine she does have good intentions for you. How is she helping you to be more independent. PUshing someone away doesn't usually help them be more independent, I don't think. It might keep them from being dependent on the person who said that, but it doesn't address the reason for the dependency feelings.

Do I understand that if she says things out of love then it's okay if she hurts the client, because her intentions are good? How often does this happen with her. It sounds like it's a familiar thing for her. Is that a technique you find helpful?

You let her read some of her writings, and she didn't like what you wrote? And now you regret giving it to her to read. So do you now feel unsafe telling her who you are?

It's a dance and you are learning the moves. Sometimes we step on our partner's toes and sometimes our sweaty hands let go and we swing too far away.

When I get hurt, I try to rethink how to think of it so I don't take it so personally. If you are in school and get a quiz back and you have red marks of some wrong, you don't necessarily take it personally, the teacher isn't making a personal statement they don't like you (or even that you are "stupid" for getting so many wrong), it is just showing you you have not learned certain facts or skills yet (whether because you were out partying or because you were sick and what either of those mean to you getting their licks in there too) and you can decide to buckle down or ask for help or ignore it or think "I'm stupid, what's the use" or any number of other responses, based on your past or present or what you are thinking or feeling or everything all at once.

If I were you I would list the thoughts and feelings (much like you have here), get them out of your head where they're probably circling all around like harpies and then come up with some simple plans for moving forward. If you are confused, figure out what questions you could ask that might make things clearer for you. If you are sad, figure out what you could do to comfort yourself (I'm very into changing the bed/doing laundry, taking a hot shower, and crawling into bed for a nap or a good read :-)

Remember, the dance is not over yet. You're in the middle of learning. Start again. What do you know now? During the last movement you were too close. Fine. Start the music again and move a bit further back. Think of some things that you have been looking to T for and figure out ways to practice getting them for yourself; make a plan or two, a test or two of things to try to see if anything strikes you as good for you to add to your life. Take control more and only ask T for comments on, "How am I doing? Does this look okay to you?" instead of "What should I do?"

The expectation thing she's been telling me for a long time about everyone in my life,with others she said remember that people have their own issues and that i should be more mindful/thoughtful of them. I didn't ever have this issue with her but I guess now I've worn out my welcome.

Very true,idk why I'm trying to justify it all when I'm still pretty angry about it.

She did say from the get go that she'd put me in my place if needed and was sure I'd do the same. She said she cares about me and even though sometimes I might not like it,she's never going to lie to me. She has never really hurt my feelings maybe 2 other times. I do like the fact that she'll give it to me straight. I honestly wouldn't be able to deal with her if she sugarcoated everything in T.

I let her read one of my writings and basically yes she didn't like what I wrote,it was probably the most in depth thing I've written in that journal. I feel judged now and I feel like she thought she knew me but there's still parts of me that she doesn't know.

Its like I'm mad at her because now I feel like she looks at me differently and judges me now.

I let her read one of my writings and basically yes she didn't like what I wrote,it was probably the most in depth thing I've written in that journal.

This sounds very hurtful. How did she express that she didn't like it?

Oy, I could have written that. It sounds eerily like something that happened to me.

My T told me that I had become too attached. He tried to reign in the boundaries like not returning my calls like he used to. It was not very helpful. In retrospect, I'm like "Duh, that's part of the disorder you're treating me for." He did not help me with the attachment by pushing me away. He should have been more therapeutic in his approach if he believed this, because I sure didn't know how to "just stop" feeling so dependent.

He also hurt me. He said I shouldn't feel hurt by him, that it's not "personal." If therapy's not personal, I don't know what is.

In the end, I felt blamed for the very symptoms of my disorder, the very thing I was there to be treated for. He couldn't handle them.

If you go back, do not stand for her telling you are too dependent, essentially putting the blame on you for failure to move forward. This is not the way to make progress. She needs to help you, not make you feel at fault.

I wish Ts wouldn't say things like that. I need time to grow out of my dependence. Rejecting me isn't going to make me independent. That was a mistake my mother made.

Ultra:it was very hurtful,I could see it in her face while reading it that what I wrote was bothering her and thats when she said feels like I'm constantly on a roller coaster and it never comes down,then the dependent bs. I feel like I'm not as dependent as she's playing it out to be. I did ask her if she was angry and T said she was a bit frustrated,but I did ask.

TheRealDeal:sorry this happened to you as well,how did you handle it?did you ever go back?what disorder do you have?

I shouldn't feel hurt by him, that it's not "personal my T said something very similiar and I thought wth this is personal for me

I'm not sure what I want to do,apart of me isn't sure I can get pass this obstacle with T and that I'll just have to figure it out on my own.I'm still confused about the entire thing and I'm not sure if trust can be rebuilt,once someone hurts me thats usually it

ok, my first thoughts are that CBT might not be right for you. Does she only practice CBT or does she have other modalities? It sounds to me like you have in earlier life suffered abandonment or loss which has affected how you feel about attachment? If this is the case, i strongly urge you to consider finding a therapist who can help you with trauma.

CBT has it's place, it is good for changing ingrained negative thinking and behaviours but it won't even begin to touch trauma. Because if you are acting out from a place of trauma, you literally have no control over your responses ie the fear of perceived abandonment and the frantic effort to avoid attachment in the first place. Your brain acts on perceived threat in a millisecond and it's so quick you're not even aware of it until you've acted instinctively. Essentially your brain is doing a flight,fight,freeze response. CBT isn't going to be able to touch that- if that is what's happening.

R2MN - I have just read your post and feel so concerned for you. I don't have much time to reply now but just wanted to tell you that you are doing exactly what you need to do - you are forming a dependency so you can do YOUR work - but it feels she doesn't have the skills, knowledge or self awarenesss to understand that for you. As you said - she is CBT - and that will not give you the relational therapy you seem to need - and deserve.

The early dependency on our primary caregiver is vital to give us the capacity to be independant as adults. If it didn't go too well we need a therapy to rework that for us - we NEED to be able to depend on the therapist - it is absolutely right that you do. But CBT doesn't work that way and you are likely to continue to be pushed away and told to be more independant. That is cruel. What she doesn't realise is that we can only be properly independant if we have the opportunity to be able to depend - to experience a secure attachment. CBT has it's place - but it cannot work with your attachment in the way you clearly need - and speak so eloquently.

Will be back later

Moon

I'm so sorry you are hurting. That must have been horrible to hear.

In my experience, it is perfectly fine to need your therapist. But not this therapist.

There isn't anything wrong with your needing. This may not be the kind of T relationship you need right now.

And I could have written this!. Only she didn't tell me she had to reign in the boundaries. She just started doing it, and then said it wasn't personal (but I knew of others with wider boundaries). But she never told me not to be hurt - she never recognized the hurt. I totally get that the client (you, me, others) doesn't know how to "just stop" being dependent.

I thnk an adjustment in boundaries shoudl be negotiated. THat doesn't mean the T can't set the limits they want - but it means it's done in a way to insure the limits are understood, and necessary.

I totally agree with your final paragraph. Blaming the client for being as are that brought them to therapy isn't helpful.

Asiablue: She does have other forms of T. Yes I did suffer abandonment issues as a child,I was traumatized in my childhood as well. Partially blame myself because T only knows a smidge of the trauma,because I refuse to talk about it. Trauma is one of the things T deals with as well

the fear of perceived abandonment and the frantic effort to avoid attachment in the first place sounds like a part of BPD

And you're very right I'm so impulsive the minute I feel any sort of attachment,I runaway. In the beginning T kept telling me I kept pushing her away and I told her it was because I was afraid to get close now,she's rejecting and pushing me away. The feeling sucks

Moonlitsky: we NEED to be able to depend on the therapist thanks for saying this,I thought it was all in my head
I agree I was so hurt,when I blurted out "you're just like everyone else now"

It makes me upset because from the get go I let T know that I had attachment issues and rejection fears

Echoes:Thanks for your compassion,I agree it may not be

Syra:Its weird my T never went over boundaries with me,even though I clearly remember asking and then one day,swoosh,took everything away. T was trying to put what she was saying in a way that I wouldn't take it "personal" like are you kidding meee?

I always kept T at a distance and just when I was starting to completely trust T,she hit me with this.Now I don't feel safe anymore,I'm trying to figure out if this (is this a rupture?) can be fixed or not. Usually when someone hurts me,I runaway and cut them off never to speak again and if I do its years later

Thank You everyone for all the support and advice so far!!!

Mine never went over boundaries with me either. In fact, she talked about lower boundaries compared to others. She talked of going to movies iwth clients. She brought me the first present (a very small, token thing). I resisted at first. But it seemed the message was that it was a good idea for therapy..... And then things changed. She started building up barriers. Some of it wasn't just for me. But then I think she used that as an excuse with me for things she didn't do with others and wasn't honest (maybe even with herself). I think we could have worked it out. And I could have learned good things. But she would have had to admit things I not sure she's even aware of.
I totally get your reaction ARE YOU KIDDING ME?

Trying to work things out is good. Sometimes it works. I tried working things out. Sometimes I kick myself for not paying attention to the red flags and leaving earlier and more gracefully. Sometimes I wonder if knowing that I tried has hard as I could makes it easier to know I didn't walk away too early. Problem is, it was much more painful that way. It's a hard choice.