Over-controlling Mother (Won't let me have a relationship)

I guess I wasn't super clear, but that was sort of my intended point! If she seems to think that her son should take care of her 24/7 (through whatever excuse she comes up with) then the talk about being a permanent place with care is needed. If she really doesn't need that care, then she'll have to admit it and give up the demand of 24/7 care.

I think your mom should be on PC rather than you....

Repeat after me: "It's really none of your business, mom".

P.S. Know this: Your mom will dislike and find fault with EVERY woman you ever introduce her to.

So where do I begin. All I can say it's all over, everything, and my Mom wins.

She'd been acting miserable all week since we had our "talk" last weekend. I went to the pool on Wednesday, and things with my ex-GF were great. The guys at the pool kept telling me that they can see she wants to probably try again, and that I'll have to make the next move. And it was my plan to do so. Thursday she even texted me and called me; she thought if I had time to meet her at the mall to do some Christmas shopping, but I really couldn't - deadline for my project and all.

So Friday as I'm heading out the door, my Mom starts yelling at me, what exactly I don't even remember, but it was about the pool, the people that go there, and my ex-GF. What a show at the front door as I tried to leave; she tried numerous times to grab my keys, and my wallet. She told me she was going to follow me to the pool to do something; I don't recall what exactly she said, it was such a haze. She insists that my car is hers, just because she's covered a few of my monthly car payments, and that I had that "*****" in my car. It just went on and on. And one point she said to tell my ex-GF to come over, and that she wants to talk with her. I said no, that's not happening, she's not coming over for her to interrogate her, she doesn't deserve that. I eventually got to the pool, and immediately talked to my ex-GF. I asked her straight out that I was hoping we could try again, and she agreed that she wanted to. However with this now craziness with my Mom, she said she can't, not like this when I'm in this situation. So there's where that is.

I got home, because my Mom insisted I be home at a certain time, which I was. I stormed in the house and just yelled at her. I cut up my pool pass and threw my wallet, keys and phone at her, told it's all hers, and that I'm never going out anywhere ever again, and that she wins. Long story short, we fought all night till 9:00 am. In her mind, she's done nothing wrong. My ex-GF isn't right for me, and that she feels literally sick, not only about her, but everyone at the pool. I told her I guess I have no free will, and she needs to know everything about me, but she insists that isn't true.

We've been fighting all weekend, and I told she gets wants she wants; I'll be her slave, I'll never leave the house again. I'll go back to work in a few weeks full time, and I'll pay her back what I owe her. I told her to sell the car, because if it's not mine, no point in keeping it just sitting in the garage. She tells me now that it is my car, and that I'm not selling it. Make up her freaking mind!?!?

She wants me to be miserable, fine, I'll be miserable. I told her I'll never forgive her for this, and she doesn't seem to care. She's only concerned about her feelings, and how hurt she was because I started dating someone so suddenly and so fast.

So I doubt I'll be coming back to this forum, because what's the point. As I said, she wins. I can't fight her, or have a rational conversation with her - it's her way or the highway.

Thanks to everyone who contributed in my quest for help, obviously it didn't work as planned. My GF are obviously officially over, and I no longer have a pool pass to even go back - I cut up the pass in my own rage filled anger.

You can always get another pool pass.

If the turmoil all became too much for you, and you just want to have peace in the house, then that is your right to make the decision to do what you need to for there to be peace. Just own it. Don't blame your mother for your decisions. Your mother doesn't have the power to force anything on you. There is a certificate of registration in the glove compartment of the car. If your name is on it, then you are the owner of the car.

You are trying to talk your mom into becoming the kind of mother that you wish she was . . . and threatening to never forgive her for not being that. She is who she is and that's probably all she knows how to be.

Basically, you and your mother are each other's significant other. That is the reality of it. You care very much about preserving your relationship with her . . . even more than becoming independent. You have a right to make that choice. Just own it.

Your mom doesn't win in this situation. You do. You get to continue to be co-dependent and abdicate responsibility for your life and your decisions by blaming your mom. You get the payoff of being the victim. You get the payoff of not having to take any risks, make any changes, or do anything new or scary-- and then blame your mom. If you want to stay where you are at, then that is your right. You don't have to grow up, have your own place, or have a girlfriend if you don't want to. It's your life and you are the one making decisions. Not your mom or anyone else.

Before, you said that you made the wrong decision when you chose your mom over your GF. However, you just chose your mom over your GF again. Your mom is not the only one who is over-attached or co-dependent here. You both are. You are both participating in the dysfunction.

If you want help, seek out therapy. Figure out why you are participating in this and choosing an unhealthy partnership with your mom over independence or a real, adult relationship. If you don't want to change this, then do exactly what you are doing and own it as your decision. Your mom is not "making you" do anything. These are your choices.

I whole heartedly agree, just own your choices already.


It will lead to a happier life for you when you take responsibility for your choices as opposed to assuming the role of victim of circumstance / mother. Because the truth is you are neither, you are a grownass man, making conscious decisions.

Despite your mom wanting you to no longer go to the gym, you're the one who cut your pass up.

Things with your ex weren't totally over - she said she wanted to, but that things needed to get sorted out with your mom. So you throw in the towel and decide that there's no point in working on things with your mom? That's really sorta backwards.

What you did is that you caved to your mom throwing a fit - but that was your choice. She can't physically make you comply with what she wants. She just acted out, and you decided to give in.

And honestly? Why do you keep going along with your mom's arguments that she owns everything? The properties were left in your name. You sold them and bought the new place - that means the place and stuff is yours. Unless she pays you rent then really, the fact that she's paid for a few car payments is moot - because you paid for the roof over her head, so it sort of balances things out.

You really should try therapy to see if someone could help you. After this outburst you could always tell your mom it's for anger management.

Like others above have said though.... you need to own and take responsibility for your own choices. It's the only way to really move forward any. Once you learn to see and accept your choices as yours, then you'll be able to work on making better choices for yourself. As it is, if you put your choices down as being your mom's doing, then how could it ever change... because you can't change another person.

Yes, you've been basically brainwashed throughout your life. You and your mom have a hugely codepedent reliance on another. And, while that wasn't your fault as you grew up, you have options now and choices you can make, and you're still choosing to go with what your mom wants. She wants it, but you choose to give it to her.

Hi randman78, you have had quite a time of it, so much so that you had a melt down of frustration there.

Ok, you have had a lot of advice here in your thread and you have been really trying to listen and think about it all too. But while so many can be a computer arm chair coachs to you, none of these individuals are in your shoes or have your history either.

What I see is a young man that is experiencing a big challenge for the first time really. And I am not going to tell you that when your parents helped you have your own place you were giving up something either or that it was wrong. Actually, parents helping their children with getting their own place happens a lot and always has. You were an only child too, so you got extra attention that way. And, you had some big self esteem issues when you were younger with girls playing mind games with you too. I think that because of that challenge you avoided girls unknowingly and just focused on yourself for a while, nothing wrong with that either. And I don't think you thought anything of it when your parents just showed up to visit you either, you trusted them, they were there for you and as you had said, you had nothing to hide from them either. Actually, while they did come and visit you and even had keys to your place, you pretty much lived on your own and had your freedom.

What you are dealing with now though? I don't think you expected to deal with when you and your mother decided to get a place together to save money. I don't think your mother showed you the potential of this taking place before you made that choice so I don't think you realized this challenge could actually happen with her. I don't want to, in any way attack your self esteem in discussing this challenge either. I can see that it is really "new" to you and I am not going to expect you to suddenly be a star at dealing with this challenge either.

Now, this tantrum you just had? Well, I have to tell you that I have dealt with this in students and even adult students that are actually successful and responsible individuals. It is just frustration and fear (( randman)) and you need to slow down and not be so hard on yourself. Women have been a weak area for you in your past, you kind of avoided that unknowingly and quite honestly, your frustration right now is not surprising to me at all. Whenever I experienced a student get bucked off or fall off a horse, they are rattled, and the last thing I do is blame them for it, however, I do encourage them to get back on the horse and try again.

Well, that is what you need to do, dust yourself off and get back on the horse, you had a fall, you are shaken up, that's all. Believe me, you are not the first human being to get frustrated and tear up and thow in the towel in frustration either. Hey, in this conflict with your mother, you just got to see how bad/controlling your mother can really be and she was not willing to listen to you either, that is "her" issue and you can't go off blaming yourself for that either.

Now, when you said, "All I can say it's all over, everything, and my Mom wins." All you are saying is that your mother won that first effort you took to talk to her. She bucked you off and was nasty to you. So you were thrown and hit the ground and are now blaming yourself in frustration. Well, you are a beginner randman, that's all, you just gotta get some experience and learn her tricks and also learn how to stay on track so you don't get thrown again. You just have to build up some resiliance and often that develops as you keep getting back on and learning how to take the reins better and understand that a horse can't buck as big if you keep it's head up so to speak, and believe me, I have had to teach many a student how to learn how to do just that too.

Hey, you have learned something about your mother, it's been quite the eye opener, that doesn't mean you should just give in to her or blame yourself for "her" bad behavior either. I have been reading along in your thread, and while there is interesting fruitful information expressed, I have to say that the overall tone towards you has not really been that of helping you with your self esteem in this challenge. Honestly, any time I have addressed a student, be it adult or child, that was caught off guard and thrown off, did I ever address it with "it is your fault, you were not doing this or that". It's "ok" to be angry randman, it's even ok to be shaken up too, but don't give up, choose to "learn" instead. You know, no matter how many times you get thrown or bumped around, you can still "learn" and do better. You just need to have someone knowledgable listen and observe the challenge you are having and explain the mechanics to you better and teach you some skills so when you have these challenges you can learn to address them better, that's skill learning, that's doable, it really is. Actually, that is what developed into what is called DBT and CBT therapy and believe me, plenty of people have been involved with these therapies too. And let me tell you a secret randman, there is not one person that has posted to you in this thread that has not had their own challenges either to where they too had to learn some skills in how to deal with their challenges. So, I don't want you to walk away from this site thinking you are a failure somehow, because that is simply not the truth. The "truth" is, we learn by "doing" randman and you are involved in a challenge that is actually new to you, and it's not "your fault", you are seeing a side of your mother that you just did not realize was there before, so now you have to learn some skills to deal with it, that's all.

You know randman, every single person is a new experience and will have their own little things that can present a challenge. That's how human beings are, they all have their faults and charactor flaws. Well, guess what, your mother is finally really showing you her charactor flaws. Truth is, your mother is fearful and what she is unknowingly doing is treading water and will pull you under with her in her lack of knowledge about dealing with this kind of challenge in her life, that isn't "your fault", unfortunately people can do that to others. You just have not seen that yet in your life, it's not something you have really developed any skill set for "yet" that's all. It doesn't mean you can't learn "how" to deal with that challenge.

Now, this girl friend? Well, she is not distancing herself because you are now unworthy of her, she does still like you. The only reason she is distancing is because she is realizing that you need some time to figure out how to deal with this challenge and develop some skills to where you can break away from it. Actually, she really sounds like a really nice person and I don't think you should throw her away, people like that are hard to find and worth keeping around, it's rare to find someone who is respectful like that. She is not one of those selfish type girls that you dealt with when you were younger and going through your gaulky stage of development either. Those kind of girls have a name too, they are called "mean girls", I don't think this girl friend was ever like those kind of girls. You know, some guys bloom early and seem to "have it all" in their early years, while others bloom later and actually become much more attractive with time. It sounds to me like you are just a late bloomer, and these men are actually better to have "long term" tbh.

So, please, don't look at this latest challenge with your mother as "the end" ok? You just learned something more about your mother and you just have to learn some new skills in how to deal with her better that's all, and you can do it, you can. And remember, when others give advice that leans on the judgemental side, believe me, they have had to learn things too, often people forget that about themselves, so keep in mind that "advice" often given has been something "learned" by others too, so do your best to realize that and not allow yourself to feel a challenging situation is "your fault" somehow. Sigh....I have seen too many go down that "it's my fault" road, and that's just not the way to go at all. Please, just allow yourself to "learn" instead, because you "can" and honestly, that is exactly what others advising you in this thread have done as well. Hey, myself included, it's part of being human. I think you have had a very "open mind" so far, so "just keep trying" and don't let a disappointment in getting your mother to respond better right away get you down, just get back on the horse and keep trying, you "can" learn.

((Supportive Hugs)))
OE

If you didn't want help, then why did you post your problem?

You can not complain that there has been a lack of response ;80 plus posts and counting.

several people, including myself, have made numerous suggestions of things you could try doing to improve your life. Some advice was soft, some was blunt, but any advice we give won't change your reality.

Only your actions will change your reality.

You ARE capable of action.

You came to this forum....action

You went back to the pool....action

You argued with your mother...action

you cut up your pool pass... action

You "caved" to your mother and gave her everything she wants....action

You have proved that you are capable of action. So why not keep going? Instead of taking 1 step in 10 different direction, try doing 10 steps in 1 direction.

Didn't it feel good to be getting responses from this forum? To start swimming again?

To see your friends and your girlfriend again?

I know you are afraid, but at this point, what have you got to lose?

Do you really want to spend eternity fighting with your mom?

Speaking of mom; i reread your last post and found something curious. " I told her to sell the car, because it's not mine......She tells me it is my car, and that i'm not selling"

Pulling a complete 180 in the middle of an argument. Only a child does that. "i want the car!", "well then, take it." "No!!!" In a sense ,you are both children, locked in a tug of war.The world has become one giant sandbox.

Up until this point i thought there was hope.

No more. grabbing at your keys and wallet. Opening your mail. Threatening your girlfriend. These are all acts of violence. FLAGRANT violations of boundaries.

This person will say and do anything, including harming you and your girlfriend, to achieve her objective.

AS long as you are near this person, I honestly believe that your safety is at risk. LEAVE. NOW.

Whoa, easy toolman, yes you are right he "has" chosen "action" thus far. I am getting that he has not seen his mother like this before, it's taken him by surprise, I have not seen him say she always did this with him. Have you ever had someone surprise you like this? Well, I have and not only did it take me totally by surprise, but it took me some time to figure out what "actions" I could actually take too. He doesn't have a job right now, he is working on a very promising project and this just got thrown up in his face unexpectedly. Yeah, he got very frustrated and threw everything at his mother, well, I remember doing that myself too, and right around that age too, hmm, maybe a bit younger, but just the same I lost my temper and did a similar 180 thing, eh, we all can play that bad hand right?

Well, much of your advice is good, lets just keep encouraging him, he has already said he sees that he needs to make a change in their living arrangements as soon as possible.

There is a lot of good ideas/advice in his thread, he has a lot to think about, I can see it's taking time to process all this. It's tough to see a parent you thought you could love and trust turn into such a nasty manipulating dragon lady like this.

The abuse and co-dependence going on here is not getting better. When the dysfunction starts moving from emotional abuse to physical altercations, then someone must disengage.

Since the mother is so totally invested in the "ownership" of her son, i doubt she will be the one to back off.

I understand that as readers, we only have one side of the story. Perhaps her side of the story is totally different. Perhaps not. Unless she posts a response, chances are we will never know the whole story. Let alone where the truth lies. We can only work with what he tells us.

I honestly believe, based upon the behaviour of BOTH parties, that a physical separation is required in the short term at least.

Physical confrontations have a way of spiralling out of control. Especially when there is a powder keg of emotions behind them.

Opening some ones mail (which is a crime) to physically trying to stop someone from leaving....these are desperate acts, done by a desperate person.

At this point, it is all up to him.

My concern is that in his last post he is feeling very defeated and he has not come back for more support. I don't know about others here, but I have been in that state of mind myself and what it meant is that I did not know how to respond at the time, it can happen to anyone at any age.

What can I say.

Is it my own fault that I gave in to my Mom's demands? Yes, I suppose so. I've never known how to deal with her any other way throughout my entire life - it's always been about appeasing her, and making sure I've gotten her approval with anything that I've done. The only difference this time around, is that I recognize that seeking her approval shouldn't even be on the table, especially at my age.

Standing my own ground obviously didn't work; it completely backfired. She's got me financially tied to her, and that's something I need to take responsibility for. But using our financial situation as a scapegoat to not have a relationship is a poor excuse, and I called her on that. I called her out on a lot of things, but she always had some other explanation as to why I shouldn't be dating, specifically my ex-GF.

As far as my ex-GF is concerned, it was her who said there's no way we can get back together as long as my Mom is acting like this. And let's face it, she'll continue to act like this to the end of her days. And getting out on my own just isn't going to happen anytime soon, so what choice do I or my ex-GF have? She's not going to wait around six months to a year for me to sort out my financial situation and get out on my own.

Me tearing up my pool pass was an emotional act, I just didn't know what else to do. And in all honesty, I don't want to go back, not after what just happened. It's embarrassing and emasculating that my Mother tells her grown son who I can date, or who my friends can be, and what time I have to be home. These people at the pool know what's going on, and I can't face them with them having this knowledge; like I said, completely embarrassing. And going back there and seeing my ex-GF just makes it more difficult, especially knowing that we can never be.

I don't know what to do anymore with her. It's her way or the highway, type of attitude. And she doesn't care that I'm miserable, or even the fact that I told her right to her face that I'll hate her for the rest of her life for doing this to me. She just shrugged her shoulders and said, oh well.

She keeps going round and round with reasons not to see my ex-GF, and the types of things she expects from me when dating. And that me dating this girl was so sudden, and it hit her so unexpectedly. She said it would be no better than if I walked in the door and told her I was gay, or if I knocked someone up, or get this... if I announced that I was in an interracial relationship - that last one blew my socks off. She's clearly living in another time, and using her upbringing and religion into all of this as well. The whole virginity thing especially. I told a friend about the virgin thing, and he went online and found me some statistic about that.

According to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, the average age Americans lose their virginities (defined here as vaginal sexual intercourse) is 17.1 for both men and women. The CDC also reports that virgins make up 12.3 percent of females and 14.3 percent of males aged 20 to 24. That number drops below 5 percent for both male and female virgins ages 25 to 29, and goes as low as 0.3 percent for virgins ages 40 to 44. So I'm 36, and my Mom wants me to find a girl my own age who is a virgin. That means there's approximately 0.3 to probably 1 percent of the female population that is a virgin.

Look, I know I'm just spinning here and she's wrong, and she has no business knowing my sex life, but this is what I'm dealing with here. Her telling me she'd disown me, that hit me really hard; I've never heard her speak like that towards me. That's just like her trying to take the keys away from me the other night, I've never seen her act this way before. It was like watching an episode of Jerry Springer.

I honestly don't know what my next move is. As I've said, I can't move out, I've got nowhere to go, literally, I'd be on the street. I've got no money either. In my mind, all I can do is go back to work as soon as I possibly and can start paying off my debts and saving some money, then move out. As far as my ex-GF is concerned, how is it possible with all of this, especially if she is the one who doesn't want to get involved with me knowing where I stand with my Mom. And I don't blame her for that.

Open Eyes has said several times, that I shouldn't blame myself - and I haven't. In my mind I haven't done anything wrong, but I'm being treated like I'm being punished for some sort of heinous crime. I guess my crime is being that I'm seeking my independence, my own values and way of life. She can't and won't accept that.

What I'm asking now, is not the advice of "just move out". I'm asking what to do with a woman who obviously controls me, and how I can change that pattern, so that I'm unafraid of her. Because moving out alone isn't going to change that, I can see it, I know it. I need to know how I can stand up to this woman without her threatening me, and not buckling under her power. She refuses to go to therapy, and said that I won't be going either - everything is hers, as it was her and my Dad who have indirectly paid for everything, regardless if I worked or not - she owns everything. It's just like my car; I put the down payment on it, I pay the insurance and it's registered in my name. Sure, she's covered some of the monthly payments and some of my fuel, but when I tried to leave the other night, she claimed that car is hers, and that I'm not allowed to have the "*****" in my car. So when I get home and tell her that she can do whatever she wants with it, since it's her's anyways, she say's no, it's not hers, it's mine. She can't make up her freaking mind!!!

She still claims she's going to get my cell phone records (texts) with my ex-GF, because I must be hiding something. I know for a fact that she can't, but the fact that she's still using that against me as some sort of threat... I just don't get it. Or even when we had our first real big argument about my ex-GF after she first met her, I walked out the door and left house for a few hours. I went and sat at a McDonald's until they closed at midnight and went home. She tells me in the heat of our argument the other night, that she went to McDonald's and asked them if I was there, and they don't remember me. Even the truth to her at this point is a lie, or she's looking to catch me in one. I've been 100% truthful with her about everything accept when I took my ex-GF to the movies with my friends, where they met her. I finally did cop to it, because when she originally questioned me about it she was in such a rage, I didn't want to add more fuel to the fire.

I don't know if she's afraid to lose me, or what. I told her that if she continues to act like this, she will lose me. I think it just went in one ear and out the other.

I came to this forum to seek advice and answers, and I do appreciate the responses I've gotten. And granted I haven't done as much as should have, this is incredibly difficult for me. My Mom has been part of my life for so long, and we've had a good relationship up until this point. It just seems that her depression about my father's passing and me wanting something different in my life is an act of betrayal to her. And she's not willing to listen or reason with me either. I'm more afraid for her than I am for myself. She's changed, and not for the better.

You're not that old. It's possible to go without sex for a few years. Maybe you'll just have to hunker down and do a 5-year plan for financial independence, or 2 years if possible. Just be serious about it and don't spend wastefully.

Ill be honest , I haven't read all 9 pages of this, so If I'm repeating advice please forgive me.

As far as Therapy goes, You can look into your local community mental health services , they work off a sliding scale. I went for months , my portion was 5.00. You can find such a small amount of money to help yourself find ways of dealing with her ridiculous actions.

Personally I would just stop talking to her at all , Zero talking. easy? hell no. Will she scream and yell and basically blow a fuse and act like a flipped out toddler because someone took away a cookie. ? Yes that's a pretty much given. Eventually she will run out of fuel. Just simply become mute and hopefully deaf to her nonsense.

Until your able to break away from her desperate hold on you, remind yourself daily that you are a wonderful person and there is an end in sight.

I do agree with , Getting a new bank account , setting up a post office box. Ask for paperless bank account info, so only you will know what monies you do have.

You can make small changes over a few week, reasonable obtainable goals. Each goal you complete is going to help build up your self worth and esteem.

I've already hunkered down a long time already without sex. It's just the shear fact that it's part of the conversation; why my Mom thinks she has a say in my sex life is just so inappropriate, emasculating, embarrassing, creepy and simply none of her business. She just can't seem understand that.

Regarding finances, I've been working on a plan when I've been able to over the last couple of weeks. I'll be the first to admit that I've been irresponsible with my spending over the last several years, which is one of the reasons I've got the debt that I do, and why my Mom has been helping me out in that department. And I have a lot of stuff, stuff that I'm going to now turn around and sell. It's never hit me harder than it has now; what's the point of all this material stuff; I'd rather have nothing (except the bare essentials - a place to live, transportation, clothing, food) and have my girlfriend back.

One of my good friends found a group therapy talk. I'm plan on going once it starts up again in the new year, and it's free!

I've already stopped talking to her, only when I absolutely have to, and with "yes" or "no" answers. She's knows I'm angry with her, and she figures it's a game, but it's not. I truly am angry and upset with her, and I don't want to talk to her, I have nothing to say to her anymore after all of this. I guess I'll just have to wait and see how long I stay like this, or until she breaks.

Already working on it. I've already switched some of my stuff to come paperless, which she doesn't have access to. I already have a post office box that I use for work purposes, and I'll start getting stuff sent there. And she doesn't have access to my bank account; she can deposit, but not withdraw. Even though I should know better, I called my cell phone provider yesterday to see if she was able to get access to my account info, and she can't. Like I said, I knew she most likely couldn't access it, but I do feel better knowing that she really can't. Changing my passwords to all my stuff, etc. It's definitely helping by doing these things.

Very nice progress noted in the post above. Good work!

Your ex-GF did not say that she can't be with you as long as YOUR MOTHER is acting that way-- she said she cannot be with you as long as you are giving in to your mother, participating in an unhealthy relationship with your mother, and choosing your mother over her. Your ex-GF wants YOU to make different choices-- what your mother herself does is irrelevant. Therefore, it is up to you whrther or not you want to create boundaries with your mother and attempt to pursue a relationship with your ex-GF. Even if you do not move out tomorrow-- or this month-- you could still make dramatically different choices now and plan to move out in 6 months, once you've saved up enough money to get at least a studio apartment somewhere. The real question ow whether you are actually ready to have a relationship-- and are willing to do what it takes. So far, each time this woman has gotten close to you, you have run away and then blamed your actions on your mother. Your defeatist attitude and your willingness to give up at the first sign of difficulty suggests that you don't actually want a relationship-- you're just too scared. If you really cared about this woman, you would tell her that you were changing your behavioe NOW-- you would not tell your mother where you go (not say "at McDonalds"), you would stop engaging in these fights with her, you would not respond to a single word your mother said about your ex-GF, and you would be putting 100% into therapy (it's grear you're joining the group; do they have free or low-cost individual therapy also?) Then, you would PROVE to your ex-GF through your actions that you really ARE different. Then, you would ask her if she is willing to wait while you extricate yourself from your mother fully by moving out and cutting off all financial ties. You have no way of knowing if she is willing to wait for you unless you ask!!! If your response is "Its not fair to ask her to wait"-- then you are not giving her the respect of treating her like an adult woman who has the capacity to make her own decisions-- or you are using that as an excuse so you can blame her and let yourself off the hook for being too scared or not ready for a relationship. I know this may sound harsh, but it's the truth. If you want to start taking responsibility for your life, it means owning your choices and taking risks even when it feels scary.

I must say i am totally impressed by the progress you have taken!

I must, however, disagree with your decision to stop going to the pool. I know you may feel embarrassed at first, but isn't that better than being further isolated? Not going tells people that 'she' has won. Do you really want that? If you can't go because you don't want to, then go because she doesn't want you to.

Every revolution begins with a tiny act of defiance.

I am still concerned for your safety. Your mother is in a desperate situation mentally. Desperate people do desperate things. But this your life; so i'll stop now.

As an aside, i read off the BBC website

"The law on domestic violence in England and Wales is being changed to include 'coercive and controlling behaviour'.

Prosecutors will now have to take into account emotional and psychological abuse, which could include refusing access to money and controlling many aspects of everyday life, like friendships and hobbies."

Ok, so the whole money thing does confuse me some.

What is actually in your name? The car, yes. The place you live in? Is it in your name or hers, because you've said that the properties were left to you when your father passed away.

What do you currently pay towards living expenses, and what does your mom currently pay? Don't look at the past. Who pays for things NOW. Do you make equal payments towards the mortage roughly, or who primarily pays it? Same with groceries and bills.

Your mom is going to continue with the threats and yelling and all sorts of awful behaviour.

Each time you give in, allows her to keep going. It will only stop after you make it a consistent habit to flat out ignore what she's demanding and do what you want anyway. It will take a long time and you'll probably end up with loooots of headaches, but you just have to stick with it. Don't even bother with the arguments because that shows her that she's getting to you - and that she's getting heard.

What can she actually do, really? If she stops putting money towards the place you live in if she's contributing to it, then well, she's putting herself at risk of losing the place eventually too. If the place is in your name then she CANNOT legally kick you out. If she wants to up and leave she's welcome to. If she stops helping you out with your car payments, then what would happen? You can just sell the car and get by without on for a while.

What else can she ACTUALLY do aside from make your life miserable by being incredibly vocal?

There's nothing really. The only power she has over you is the power that you give her, and yes, it's hard to take it back.

She'll rebel lots. She'll keep going. She is old, and stubborn, and doesn't know any other way to live, so she's not going to stop easily and she may never completely stop. But eventually she'll give up, because ultimately what's important to her is to have you as close to her as possible.

It'll just take a lot of persistence to show her that you'll be closer to her when you're happy and living your life how you want; and that the more she smothers you the less close you'll be. It'll take a long time because in her mind it won't make sense as a healthy relationship doesn't make sense to her.

Also, just a possible tip - when you start selling off some of your stuff, be prepared for your mom to do some drastic and stupid things such as throwing out or breaking some of your property.

But you can do this. Just refuse to give her answers to things like "where are you going". "I'm going out mom, I'll be back later. Goodbye." and then walk out the door. What's she going to do? Yell at you when you get back? Sure. But it doesn't mean you have to tell her anything. And sure, most of the time in a healthy relationship you'd just tell someone where you were off to... but this isn't a healthy relationship and this is an example of how she can confirm to herself that she can control you and has a right to know everything you're doing.

And really... if she keeps bringing up sex, start telling her full out lies. She's worried that you're going to have sex with a non-virgin person of a different racial background? Then tell her the next time that you've been out for quite a well... tell her that you with a BDSM meet and hooked up with a... X(pick a race) dominatrix for the night and that next time you're thinking of taking part in a group activity Will she believe you? No probably not, but it'll certainly make her uncomfortable!

The place we live in now is in her name. The places we lived in before (the farm and my condo) were in my Dad's and my name, but after he passed away, everything went solely into my name. After we agreed to sell everything, she needed to apply for a loan to cover the costs of our new place, and it could only have been her name; the loan only qualified to persons older than 50.

The only thing in my name is my car. I contribute by paying things like the internet and phone. I'm living rent free otherwise, but told her I will start paying rent if she wants, if finances are her main concern i.e.; if she wants to treat me like an adult, I have to act like one, which makes sense, and I recognize that. But she never responded to the idea of me paying rent.

I honestly don't know what else she can do. I really don't. And that's one of the things that frightens me about her. I no longer know what she's capable of.

I came across this article on a website last night...

"Coping with a Controlling Mother"

Accept that she might not change - If you look at the title of this post, you will notice that I have used the word ‘cope’. This means that there is a very high chance that your mama may never change. Stop hoping she will change. At her age she is too set in her ways, she gets a pay off from being controlling and has had decades and decades of practicing/mastering how to manipulate people. You are a few years late honey. If you are religious and believe in miracles, God will
change them but in the mean time you will need to have some tools how to cope or manage this difficult mama. Accept the fact that she isn’t a nice person, despite the fact that she is your mother, painful as it may be. You cannot change her, but you can change how you react to her.

I'm starting the think/believe this might be the case. There's no way I can make her see my point-of-view.

Otherwise, I'm still angry and not speaking to her, unless it's something I have no other choice in responding to. I can see by her overall attitude, that she's content; she thinks that she's gotten her way and she's gone back to her day to day. It honestly makes me sick. Part of me thinks that she figures this is just some sort of phase, and that I'll get over it. Considering that this is all I pretty much think about 24/7, just proves to myself that I will not get over it that easily. She hurt me more than she can possibly understand. I never thought I would hate my Mother like I do now, which also makes me sick and disappointed.

So.... you sold two properties, and still needed to put the new place in her possession? What on earth did you do with that money?

And yes, she sure does think that this is just a phase! It's why she will keep trying and trying. It's why she won't give up easily at all - she knows your ENTIRE past is giving in to what she wants, so why would it change now? Sure, a little rebellion is expected.... but it doesn't mean she will think you can squash her. Which is why each time you cave and give her what she wants... you're hurting yourself. It tells her that she can win, and that it IS just a phase, and if she keeps it up you'll eventually see "reason" (her version of it!) and come around and stop your rebellious behaviour.

Of course, what you are doing isn't rebellious. It's logical and normal to want to grow apart and have your own life. She just won't see it that way.

So keep strong, no matter how badly you want to cave.Goodness, cry into your pillow or go join a gym and beat the crap out of a punching bag or something... but don't let her see it. Lie right through your teeth in regards to that.. don't let her see anything that she might see as a sign of you caving in to her will.

Honestly, it's hard. And she'll never fully give up that control. And I say this as someone who did that separation quite early - I was still in highschool when I started. By now, the relationship I have with my mom is on my terms.... I share what I want, and don't respond to prying. Sometimes I seem like a b*t*h but I honestly do it just to keep myself protected. And it maintains a boundary - by now, my mom knows not to pry to much or I simply will leave the conversation. I share what I want to, and the less she asks the more I'm likely to share. Why? Because I know that the more I share in respose to a question/demand... the more she'll question/demand/feel entitled to. It isn't fun. You can do it!

I'm just coming back to write and vent my own personal frustrations, with the hopes that writing out my feelings might help, as it usually does.

It's been several weeks since my blow-up with my Mom, and the last time I went to the pool. I've been very busy working on this project, and there's about 3-4 weeks left before it's completed. This project has kept me incredibly busy, and I honestly haven't had time for anything else - I have a deadline and it's the priority right now. But during this time, I've been incredibly depressed, so much so that I feel lost and have no direction or feel I have a purpose in life anymore. Even with this project, I find it difficult to concentrate, as the problems with my Mom, my ex-GF and my social life are constantly in my head. It's the first thing I think of when I get up in the morning, I think about it all day, and it's usually the last thing on my mind before I fall asleep. I can't wait for this project to be over so that I can go back to work full time and earn some money. As discussed in my previous posts, I'm financially tied to my Mom, and that's something that I really want to take on head on.

I haven't gone back to the pool at all. Today my ex-GF texted me to come back to the pool. I told her I can't and that I feel I don't have a choice, that my Mom has cornered me with threats, guilt trips and borderline financial blackmail. My ex responded with that I do have a choice (some more difficult that others), that she's a bully and the only way to get rid of bully behaviour is to tell her to get bent and stand up for myself, set boundaries. And she's 100% right. The problem is I can't do it, I just don't have the balls. I tried, I honestly did, but my Mom made sure she got what she wanted. No way am I going to defy her and have my own choices, at least that's her attitude.

I've talked with close friends about what's going on, and they all know my Mom and can't understand why she's doing this. They're also very surprised, as they've never seen this side of her. My friends have always liked my Mom, even when I was kid, and thought she was a great lady. One of my friends said my parents were very lucky to have a son like me, I never defied them and always respected them, never got into trouble, and was never embarrassed or ashamed (as a teenager especially) for having them accompany me everywhere for the most part. So to hear the stories of what I've been experiencing just shocks them. I can only describe it as a Jekyll and Hyde personality. I'm sure like all people, they get angry and stressed and can have a bit of Mr. Hyde in them, but this is far and beyond that, especially what I've witnessed over the last several months.

I looked into the local free group therapy groups in my area. I called them to get more information, and was told that in my particular case that the group therapy offered probably wouldn't work for my situation, and that I should seek out private counselling instead. Unfortunately with my financial situation, private counselling isn't a luxury I can afford right now.

So overall I feel miserable. I'm constantly shaking and cold, I'm tired and sore. Part of which is from not going back to the pool, I'm physically feeling the effects of the lack of exercise, exercise I got for seven years. And that's just it, I went to that same pool twice a week for seven years. Everything was fine, but the second I meet a girl there my Mom can't handle it and would rather crush me. And that's the word I constantly have in my head, CRUSHED. She crushed my spirit like I've never felt in my life. Not only have I lost my girlfriend, but my friendships at the pool and the exercise I was getting. And she doesn't care. And I can see in her overall attitude, she's perfectly content with me not going back.

However, she's told me she's been experiencing some physical medical problems, something that I don't wish to divulge in public. And it concerns me. This is a woman who absolutely hates the medical industry, as we've mostly had bad experiences with doctors and nurses in the last 25 years, so she doesn't have any faith in them. The fact that she's talking about going to see somebody suggests that something is very seriously wrong, she only goes to a doctor when she absolutely has to. So something's obviously wrong. I'm not sure if it's connected to her behaviour or not.

Nothing much else going on. I just know I have more bad days than good, I feel terrible all the time. I came across this YouTube video about over-controlling mothers: Everything he says makes perfect sense, and I know that I need to take control of my own life to make positive changes. Sigh. This is really hard for me though.

Even little things, like when there's something on TV like people talking about dating or getting married makes me depressed. Even anyone I find attractive makes me physically ill; what's the point, I'm never going to be in a relationship in my life because my Mom has decided to take full control of that aspect of my life. Like I mentioned, I feel lost with no purpose, my life is over. Yes, it's up to me to make that change, but I just don't know how. I feel trapped, like I'm in prison, but the warden is my Mother, and she doesn't care. It's almost as if this is some game to her, and that it's just a minor road bump at this point in time. Even though I've told her it isn't, this radically changed my opinion of her, and that I'll never forgive her for this. She just shrugs her shoulders and is like, oh well. It seems I need to live by her rules and lifestyle choices, and if I don't I'm out on the street and out of her life, as she told me several times.

Ugh, I'm just going in circles now. As I said, I just needed to get this off my chest. Tonight would have been a regular pool night, and missing my usual swim and social life depresses the hell out of me.

I was wondering how you were doing so I just checked your thread. I am sorry you are so depressed right now with this challenge.

I think your mother is just angry that her life changed so much with your father's death.
Often this anger part of grieving comes a year or even two after a major life change like this. Her behavior towards you is expressing this anger and it isn't healthy for either of you. If she is saying she is not feeling well and wants to see a doctor, she should be taken to a doctor. Part of her behavior could just be her way of not wanting any more changes to happen, her way of trying to gain control, even though it isn't healthy.

I think you should get her to a doctor and finish your project. You can't make a huge change overnight and it isn't doing you any good to beat yourself up either and sit and convince yourself you are "crushed" from morning until night. You have a problem, yes, and you need to set a path on figuring out how to slowly work your way out of it. So, get her to the doctor and get your project done first, that is what comes next.

(((Hugs)))
OE

I wouldn't believe a word your mom says.

If she has the energy to keep you "crushed", then she has the energy to call 911. Asking for help is HER job. How do you know that this isn't just more attention seeking behaviour designed to keep you stuck? Do not take responsibility for her "illness".

If she does end up in hospital, insist on talking to the doctor so YOU know what the truth is.

Have you considered al-anon ? While your mom may not be an alcoholic, her behaviour is impacting on your life.